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Posted to user@karaf.apache.org by Jochen Walz <jo...@googlemail.com> on 2023/05/31 11:31:30 UTC
Frameworks dropping OSGi support
Hello,
Recently, some frameworks have dropped support for OSGi/Karaf in their latest versions (CXF 4.0, Vaadin 24.0), because some of their dependencies are no longer supported. E.g., servlet 6.
I know that we still have some time left before older versions run out of support (March 24 for Vaadin 23, at least when you don't have a commercial license). Anyways: does anybody have a crystal ball which tells how that story will go, i.e., when OSGi and Karaf will be ready to regain support by these frameworks?
Thanks & Regards,
Jochen
Re: Frameworks dropping OSGi support
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Sorry I missed the answer from Greg :)
I second obviously :)
Regards
JB
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:55 PM Grzegorz Grzybek <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello
>
> Initially (and more precisely 1-2 years ago) when the javax → jakarta migration started to get momentum (partially because of Spring Boot 3 / Spring Framework 6 announcement) I was thinking that the Enterprise OSGi specifications which touch JakartaEE would have to be released all-at-once (JPA, Web, transactions, ...) and I thought it'd be veeeery hard for the implementations to quickly get new jakarta.* releases.
>
> I was imagining a lot of problems related to compatibility to existing libraries. Karaf features cover a lot of dependencies and there is simply not enough (IMO) manpower to be quick here.
>
> However recently I was tracking OSGi CMPN progress and for example there already exist new Whiteboard specification (https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.servlet.html) (called "Servlet service" now), so OSGi world is not going to lag behind too much.
>
> I think (or I'm biased) that the web parts are the most important here. And Pax Web doesn't yet have a Jakarta friendly release, so I have a branch ready (with slow progress). See https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.web/issues/1802
>
> The point is that there will be NO version the ancient HttpService specification based on jakarta.servlet package. Pax Web has this support deep in its core, so there's fundamental decision to be made - probably Pax Web's extension to org.osgi.service.http.HttpService is going to simply swallow the methods from this interface.
>
> This interface however is used by CXF (cxf-rt-transports-http) and Jolokia and Camel Servlet and these will have to switch to Whiteboard (called "Servlet" in OSGi CMPN 8.1).
>
> I can't tell anything however about JPA for example. These specs in 8.1 (which contains migrated Whiteboard specification) do NOT yet moved from javax to jakarta:
>
> JPA: https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.jpa.html
> Transaction Control: https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.transaction.control.html
> JTA: https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.jta.html
>
> So it's still the beginning of the road... Not only there are not CMPN jakarta versions of the above specs, I have no idea about progress at RI side (Apache Aries).
>
> I hope this clears at least some of the confusion here.
>
> regards
> Grzegorz Grzybek
>
> śr., 31 maj 2023 o 13:32 Jochen Walz <jo...@googlemail.com> napisał(a):
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Recently, some frameworks have dropped support for OSGi/Karaf in their latest versions (CXF 4.0, Vaadin 24.0), because some of their dependencies are no longer supported. E.g., servlet 6.
>>
>> I know that we still have some time left before older versions run out of support (March 24 for Vaadin 23, at least when you don't have a commercial license). Anyways: does anybody have a crystal ball which tells how that story will go, i.e., when OSGi and Karaf will be ready to regain support by these frameworks?
>>
>> Thanks & Regards,
>>
>> Jochen
Re: Frameworks dropping OSGi support
Posted by Jochen Walz <jo...@googlemail.com>.
Hello Grzegorz,
So, in short: some big chunks of work in progress (or yet to be started)
in different places.
Thanks for the detailed answer! With this, it is at least clear where to
look at for checking the progress.
Regards
Jochen
Am 31.05.2023 um 13:55 schrieb Grzegorz Grzybek:
> Hello
>
> Initially (and more precisely 1-2 years ago) when the javax → jakarta
> migration started to get momentum (partially because of Spring Boot 3
> / Spring Framework 6 announcement) I was thinking that the Enterprise
> OSGi specifications which touch JakartaEE would have to be released
> all-at-once (JPA, Web, transactions, ...) and I thought it'd be
> veeeery hard for the implementations to quickly get new jakarta.*
> releases.
>
> I was imagining a lot of problems related to compatibility to existing
> libraries. Karaf features cover a lot of dependencies and there is
> simply not enough (IMO) manpower to be quick here.
>
> However recently I was tracking OSGi CMPN progress and for example
> there already exist new Whiteboard specification
> (https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.servlet.html)
> (called "Servlet service" now), so OSGi world is not going to lag
> behind too much.
>
> I think (or I'm biased) that the web parts are the most important
> here. And Pax Web doesn't yet have a Jakarta friendly release, so I
> have a branch ready (with slow progress). See
> https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.web/issues/1802
>
> The point is that there will be NO version the ancient HttpService
> specification based on jakarta.servlet package. Pax Web has this
> support deep in its core, so there's fundamental decision to be made -
> probably Pax Web's extension to org.osgi.service.http.HttpService is
> going to simply swallow the methods from this interface.
>
> This interface however is used by CXF (cxf-rt-transports-http) and
> Jolokia and Camel Servlet and these will have to switch to Whiteboard
> (called "Servlet" in OSGi CMPN 8.1).
>
> I can't tell anything however about JPA for example. These specs in
> 8.1 (which contains migrated Whiteboard specification) do NOT yet
> moved from javax to jakarta:
>
> * JPA:
> https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.jpa.html
> * Transaction Control:
> https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.transaction.control.html
> * JTA:
> https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.jta.html
>
> So it's still the beginning of the road... Not only there are not CMPN
> jakarta versions of the above specs, I have no idea about progress at
> RI side (Apache Aries).
>
> I hope this clears at least some of the confusion here.
>
> regards
> Grzegorz Grzybek
>
> śr., 31 maj 2023 o 13:32 Jochen Walz <jo...@googlemail.com>
> napisał(a):
>
> Hello,
>
> Recently, some frameworks have dropped support for OSGi/Karaf in
> their latest versions (CXF 4.0, Vaadin 24.0), because some of
> their dependencies are no longer supported. E.g., servlet 6.
>
> I know that we still have some time left before older versions run
> out of support (March 24 for Vaadin 23, at least when you don't
> have a commercial license). Anyways: does anybody have a crystal
> ball which tells how that story will go, i.e., when OSGi and Karaf
> will be ready to regain support by these frameworks?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Jochen
>
Re: Frameworks dropping OSGi support
Posted by Grzegorz Grzybek <gr...@gmail.com>.
Hello
Initially (and more precisely 1-2 years ago) when the javax → jakarta
migration started to get momentum (partially because of Spring Boot 3 /
Spring Framework 6 announcement) I was thinking that the Enterprise OSGi
specifications which touch JakartaEE would have to be released all-at-once
(JPA, Web, transactions, ...) and I thought it'd be veeeery hard for the
implementations to quickly get new jakarta.* releases.
I was imagining a lot of problems related to compatibility to existing
libraries. Karaf features cover a lot of dependencies and there is simply
not enough (IMO) manpower to be quick here.
However recently I was tracking OSGi CMPN progress and for example there
already exist new Whiteboard specification (
https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.servlet.html)
(called "Servlet service" now), so OSGi world is not going to lag behind
too much.
I think (or I'm biased) that the web parts are the most important here. And
Pax Web doesn't yet have a Jakarta friendly release, so I have a branch
ready (with slow progress). See
https://github.com/ops4j/org.ops4j.pax.web/issues/1802
The point is that there will be NO version the ancient HttpService
specification based on jakarta.servlet package. Pax Web has this support
deep in its core, so there's fundamental decision to be made - probably Pax
Web's extension to org.osgi.service.http.HttpService is going to simply
swallow the methods from this interface.
This interface however is used by CXF (cxf-rt-transports-http) and Jolokia
and Camel Servlet and these will have to switch to Whiteboard (called
"Servlet" in OSGi CMPN 8.1).
I can't tell anything however about JPA for example. These specs in 8.1
(which contains migrated Whiteboard specification) do NOT yet moved from
javax to jakarta:
- JPA:
https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.jpa.html
- Transaction Control:
https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.transaction.control.html
- JTA:
https://docs.osgi.org/specification/osgi.cmpn/8.1.0/service.jta.html
So it's still the beginning of the road... Not only there are not CMPN
jakarta versions of the above specs, I have no idea about progress at RI
side (Apache Aries).
I hope this clears at least some of the confusion here.
regards
Grzegorz Grzybek
śr., 31 maj 2023 o 13:32 Jochen Walz <jo...@googlemail.com>
napisał(a):
> Hello,
>
> Recently, some frameworks have dropped support for OSGi/Karaf in their
> latest versions (CXF 4.0, Vaadin 24.0), because some of their dependencies
> are no longer supported. E.g., servlet 6.
>
> I know that we still have some time left before older versions run out of
> support (March 24 for Vaadin 23, at least when you don't have a commercial
> license). Anyways: does anybody have a crystal ball which tells how that
> story will go, i.e., when OSGi and Karaf will be ready to regain support by
> these frameworks?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Jochen
>
Re: Frameworks dropping OSGi support
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Jochen,
That's a fair question.
OSGi group is working on the OSGi version of the spec as part of the
cmpn scope. In the past, we also wrapped some specs in ServiceMix
Specs bundle.
So, even if it's long process, there are several works around the
specs that will help CXF, Vaadin, etc.
Regards
JB
On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 1:31 PM Jochen Walz
<jo...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Recently, some frameworks have dropped support for OSGi/Karaf in their latest versions (CXF 4.0, Vaadin 24.0), because some of their dependencies are no longer supported. E.g., servlet 6.
>
> I know that we still have some time left before older versions run out of support (March 24 for Vaadin 23, at least when you don't have a commercial license). Anyways: does anybody have a crystal ball which tells how that story will go, i.e., when OSGi and Karaf will be ready to regain support by these frameworks?
>
> Thanks & Regards,
>
> Jochen