Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>]

Hi to all,
I've just tried the new Demo (under trunk) of interaction between
Pivot and SVG Salamander and I have to say it's a great combination !!

To have some features of both more in evidence scalable features of
both, what do you think when resizing the application window, if all
SVG elements will resize too (for example to keep the same proportions
as the start, but locked as horizontal/vertical proportion) ?

Little visual trick: is it possible to move the svg tiger a little
under, to have a little more vertical space between the Pivot logo and
the tiger (there is much vertical space at the top, and little here) ?


And last, some small things on the zoom feature:
- zooming the user interface I see that the current position of the
mouse is not taken as the center for the zooming in/out operation, but
I think this would be better (when the user want to zoom, it click in
a certain point)
- will it be possible to not zoom even added scrollbars (at high zoom
factors are really not-so-good to see) ?
- when I have a complex GUI (for example a big form that could have
scrollbars to fit in the application), will it be possible to zoom out
(1/2, 1/4, etc) ?
  -- at the moment I don't know if this is possible, but in some cases
could be useful ...

Bye,
Sandro

Re: Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Superstring Media <su...@gmail.com>]

Excellent on how the sizing delegation works.

We certainly will be doing our own layout and are going over some strategies for rendering many symbols. Basically, it looks like my StaffComponent will be an expert at symbol layout and painting without relying on scenegraph type tricks  :-)

Thom


On 2010-10-05, at 8:01 AM, Greg Brown wrote:

>> This certainly brings new possibilities into Pivot, incorporating icons and illustrations goes a long ways already. I agree that the resizing would be useful. If a SVGImage is resized it would be appropriate to resize the wrapped SVGDiagram too.
> 
> Yes, and this is in fact exactly how it works. If you look at the source code, you will see that Drawing's size methods simply delegate to the underlying diagram.
> 
>> A possible usage I'm thinking of now is for music notation. Lets say a staff object exists that extends the pivot component object. Possibly a staff's skin can simply be a SVGImage wrapped by a ImageView. The the SVGDiagram (scenegraph) wrapped by the SVGImage might then be able to contain the complete notation symbol tree, representing the staff's music, with elements for all related symbols involved. Also, the SVGDiagram elements can detect hits and be animated.
> 
> Though nothing in Pivot is especially "heavyweight", Components are certainly heavier than Images. Since you are likely to want to display many musical symbols at the same time, it will probably be more efficient to write a custom component that is capable of displaying a number of Images rather than wrapping each image in an ImageView. Since you'd presumably need to write custom layout logic to arrange the ImageView's anyway, you wouldn't really gain anything by wrapping the images.
> 
> G
> 

Re: Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>]

> This certainly brings new possibilities into Pivot, incorporating icons and illustrations goes a long ways already. I agree that the resizing would be useful. If a SVGImage is resized it would be appropriate to resize the wrapped SVGDiagram too.

Yes, and this is in fact exactly how it works. If you look at the source code, you will see that Drawing's size methods simply delegate to the underlying diagram.

> A possible usage I'm thinking of now is for music notation. Lets say a staff object exists that extends the pivot component object. Possibly a staff's skin can simply be a SVGImage wrapped by a ImageView. The the SVGDiagram (scenegraph) wrapped by the SVGImage might then be able to contain the complete notation symbol tree, representing the staff's music, with elements for all related symbols involved. Also, the SVGDiagram elements can detect hits and be animated.

Though nothing in Pivot is especially "heavyweight", Components are certainly heavier than Images. Since you are likely to want to display many musical symbols at the same time, it will probably be more efficient to write a custom component that is capable of displaying a number of Images rather than wrapping each image in an ImageView. Since you'd presumably need to write custom layout logic to arrange the ImageView's anyway, you wouldn't really gain anything by wrapping the images.

G

Re: Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Superstring Media <su...@gmail.com>]

This certainly brings new possibilities into Pivot, incorporating icons and illustrations goes a long ways already. I agree that the resizing would be useful. If a SVGImage is resized it would be appropriate to resize the wrapped SVGDiagram too.

A possible usage I'm thinking of now is for music notation. Lets say a staff object exists that extends the pivot component object. Possibly a staff's skin can simply be a SVGImage wrapped by a ImageView. The the SVGDiagram (scenegraph) wrapped by the SVGImage might then be able to contain the complete notation symbol tree, representing the staff's music, with elements for all related symbols involved. Also, the SVGDiagram elements can detect hits and be animated.

There are other ways to render the symbols however the SVGDiagram approach sounds intriguing.

Cheers,
Thom



On 2010-10-04, at 4:55 PM, Sandro Martini wrote:

> Hi to all,
> I've just tried the new Demo (under trunk) of interaction between
> Pivot and SVG Salamander and I have to say it's a great combination !!
> 
> To have some features of both more in evidence scalable features of
> both, what do you think when resizing the application window, if all
> SVG elements will resize too (for example to keep the same proportions
> as the start, but locked as horizontal/vertical proportion) ?
> 
> Little visual trick: is it possible to move the svg tiger a little
> under, to have a little more vertical space between the Pivot logo and
> the tiger (there is much vertical space at the top, and little here) ?
> 
> 
> And last, some small things on the zoom feature:
> - zooming the user interface I see that the current position of the
> mouse is not taken as the center for the zooming in/out operation, but
> I think this would be better (when the user want to zoom, it click in
> a certain point)
> - will it be possible to not zoom even added scrollbars (at high zoom
> factors are really not-so-good to see) ?
> - when I have a complex GUI (for example a big form that could have
> scrollbars to fit in the application), will it be possible to zoom out
> (1/2, 1/4, etc) ?
>  -- at the moment I don't know if this is possible, but in some cases
> could be useful ...
> 
> Bye,
> Sandro

Re: Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>]

>> That wouldn't really demonstrate Pivot's UI scaling feature, but it would
>> certainly highlight the ability to scale SVGs. Feel free to create such an
>> example if you like.
> Ok, but if it's technically doable why not try to show even this feature in
> the same Demo ?

Because I think the current demo is sufficient and I have other things to do right now.  :-)  You are welcome to modify the existing demo if you prefer.

>> UI scaling changes the scale factor of the entire display, so it can't
>> really be localized around a single point.
> Ok, but using a trick that by default just after the scaling it all will be
> repositioned in the "right" position ?
> All Graphics programs that do scaling in/out feel this way ...

That's because graphic apps don't scale your entire desktop (which is effectively what we do when we apply a scale factor to the display). 

UI scaling is not an application-level feature - it is primarily for supporting very high resolution devices and accessibility.

Re: Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Sandro Martini <sa...@gmail.com>]

Hi, 
some ideas just before close this point ... at least for future versions,
don't worry.

> > To have some features of both more in evidence scalable features of
> both, what do you think when resizing the application window, if all SVG
> elements will resize too (for example to keep the same proportions as the
> start, but locked as horizontal/vertical proportion) ?
> 
> That wouldn't really demonstrate Pivot's UI scaling feature, but it would
> certainly highlight the ability to scale SVGs. Feel free to create such an
> example if you like.
Ok, but if it's technically doable why not try to show even this feature in
the same Demo ?


> > Little visual trick: is it possible to move the svg tiger a little
> under, to have a little more vertical space between the Pivot logo and the
> tiger (there is much vertical space at the top, and little here) ?
> 
> Here's an even easier trick: resize the window.  ;-)
Ok I know :-) ... but i think that having a little less vertical space from
the upper, and add some vertical spacing between both SVGs could be more
visually pleasant, before resizing the window. But it's a little thing ...

> > And last, some small things on the zoom feature: - zooming the user
> interface I see that the current position of the mouse is not taken as the
> center for the zooming in/out operation, but I think this would be better
> (when the user want to zoom, it click in a certain point)
> 
> UI scaling changes the scale factor of the entire display, so it can't
> really be localized around a single point.
Ok, but using a trick that by default just after the scaling it all will be
repositioned in the "right" position ?
All Graphics programs that do scaling in/out feel this way ...


Bye,
Sandro

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Re: Demo of Pivot/SVG Salamander

[Greg Brown <gk...@mac.com>]

> To have some features of both more in evidence scalable features of
> both, what do you think when resizing the application window, if all
> SVG elements will resize too (for example to keep the same proportions
> as the start, but locked as horizontal/vertical proportion) ?

That wouldn't really demonstrate Pivot's UI scaling feature, but it would certainly highlight the ability to scale SVGs. Feel free to create such an example if you like.

> Little visual trick: is it possible to move the svg tiger a little
> under, to have a little more vertical space between the Pivot logo and
> the tiger (there is much vertical space at the top, and little here) ?

Here's an even easier trick: resize the window.  ;-)

> And last, some small things on the zoom feature:
> - zooming the user interface I see that the current position of the
> mouse is not taken as the center for the zooming in/out operation, but
> I think this would be better (when the user want to zoom, it click in
> a certain point)

UI scaling changes the scale factor of the entire display, so it can't really be localized around a single point. 

> - will it be possible to not zoom even added scrollbars (at high zoom
> factors are really not-so-good to see) ?

No - for the same reason as above.

> - when I have a complex GUI (for example a big form that could have
> scrollbars to fit in the application), will it be possible to zoom out
> (1/2, 1/4, etc) ?

Yes, but again you will be scaling the entire display, so this is probably not what you are looking for.