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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk> on 2003/06/10 11:30:55 UTC
[VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
So that we can add some more committers to the commons-attributes
projects to help unify the various attribute-replated projects out
there (initially commons-attributes and Nanning but maybe eventually
attrib4j too) I'd like to propose we promote commons-attributes to the
commons proper. Then we can work on merging the code bases and patches
and working towards an alpha release.
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Vote: Promote commons-attributes to commons proper
[ ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it
[ ] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it
[ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move
[ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
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James
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by Ryan Hoegg <rh...@isisnetworks.net>.
Non-binding +1
--
Ryan Hoegg
ISIS Networks
http://www.isisnetworks.net
James Strachan wrote:
> Jon, Paul - this is all seeming a little painful to make useful
> progress working within Jakarta Commons. Adding 1 non-apache
> committer to a sandbox project seems too hard right now - we're stuck
> in a chicken and egg - some don't want non-apache committers working
> in the sandbox and some don't want us promoting a project to commons
> proper so we can add a new committer.
>
> Why don't we just scrap commons-attributes in the sandbox and move
> the project over to codehaus.org instead? Its certainly the easiest
> option.
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 10:16 am, Martin Cooper wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, James Strachan wrote:
>>
>>> So that we can add some more committers to the commons-attributes
>>> projects to help unify the various attribute-replated projects out
>>> there (initially commons-attributes and Nanning but maybe eventually
>>> attrib4j too) I'd like to propose we promote commons-attributes to the
>>> commons proper. Then we can work on merging the code bases and patches
>>> and working towards an alpha release.
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> Vote: Promote commons-attributes to commons proper
>>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it
>>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it
>>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move
>>> [X] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>
>>
>> It seems to me that this is entirely the converse of what Apache is
>> about.
>> The suggestion here is that a project be promoted out of the sandbox in
>> order to build a community around it. That is the *opposite* of what we
>> want to achieve.
>>
>> If the participation of people currently outside of Apache is
>> necessary to
>> build a community around commons-attributes, then this is a project
>> that
>> should be developed further elsewhere, and perhaps (re-)introduced
>> to the
>> Incubator when that community exists.
>>
>> --
>> Martin Cooper
>
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
the main reason why i'm actively opposed to adding committers for sandbox
components is that i believe that it's beyond the scope of the commons
charter. there are several senior figures at apache who are concerned
about jakarta-commons. one is on record as believing that the contents of
the sandbox breaks the jakarta charter. i hope that you'll understand the
reasons why i'm concerned that we're seen to be following the rules.
james - if you feel so strongly, then you might consider voting in jon
through the pmc with jakarta-commons-sandbox privileges. (there can be no
doubt that the pmc has the right to do this.)
forking the code base is another perfectly valid solution. or someone
could approach the incubator (or apache commons) where the rules are
different.
on the other hand, the effort to prepare commons-attributes shouldn't be
too great (i've done it for a few other components) especially given the
plan that jon proposes. i'd volunteer myself but i really, really don't
have time at the moment.
- robert
On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 05:23 PM, Paul Hammant wrote:
>> Jon, Paul - this is all seeming a little painful to make useful
>> progress working within Jakarta Commons. Adding 1 non-apache committer
>> to a sandbox project seems too hard right now - we're stuck in a
>> chicken and egg - some don't want non-apache committers working in the
>> sandbox and some don't want us promoting a project to commons proper so
>> we can add a new committer.
>>
>> Why don't we just scrap commons-attributes in the sandbox and move the
>> project over to codehaus.org instead? Its certainly the easiest option.
>
> We're using commons-attributes in AltRMI (Incubator). To switch and use a
> codehaus module is that
> OK politically? The solution is certainly viable though. The loss to
> Apache would be large.
> Cannot we try to persuade people here that the catch-22 is worth
> overcoming?
>
> - Paul
>
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com>.
> Jon, Paul - this is all seeming a little painful to make useful
> progress working within Jakarta Commons. Adding 1 non-apache committer
> to a sandbox project seems too hard right now - we're stuck in a
> chicken and egg - some don't want non-apache committers working in the
> sandbox and some don't want us promoting a project to commons proper so
> we can add a new committer.
>
> Why don't we just scrap commons-attributes in the sandbox and move the
> project over to codehaus.org instead? Its certainly the easiest option.
We're using commons-attributes in AltRMI (Incubator). To switch and use a codehaus module is that
OK politically? The solution is certainly viable though. The loss to Apache would be large.
Cannot we try to persuade people here that the catch-22 is worth overcoming?
- Paul
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
Jon, Paul - this is all seeming a little painful to make useful
progress working within Jakarta Commons. Adding 1 non-apache committer
to a sandbox project seems too hard right now - we're stuck in a
chicken and egg - some don't want non-apache committers working in the
sandbox and some don't want us promoting a project to commons proper so
we can add a new committer.
Why don't we just scrap commons-attributes in the sandbox and move the
project over to codehaus.org instead? Its certainly the easiest option.
On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 10:16 am, Martin Cooper wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, James Strachan wrote:
>
>> So that we can add some more committers to the commons-attributes
>> projects to help unify the various attribute-replated projects out
>> there (initially commons-attributes and Nanning but maybe eventually
>> attrib4j too) I'd like to propose we promote commons-attributes to the
>> commons proper. Then we can work on merging the code bases and patches
>> and working towards an alpha release.
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>> Vote: Promote commons-attributes to commons proper
>> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it
>> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it
>> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move
>> [X] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -
>
> It seems to me that this is entirely the converse of what Apache is
> about.
> The suggestion here is that a project be promoted out of the sandbox in
> order to build a community around it. That is the *opposite* of what we
> want to achieve.
>
> If the participation of people currently outside of Apache is
> necessary to
> build a community around commons-attributes, then this is a project
> that
> should be developed further elsewhere, and perhaps (re-)introduced to
> the
> Incubator when that community exists.
>
> --
> Martin Cooper
>
>
>> James
>> -------
>> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
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>
>
James
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 10:22 AM, Jon Tirsén wrote:
> See comments below:
>
>> It seems to me that this is entirely the converse of
>> what Apache is about.
>> The suggestion here is that a project be promoted
>> out of the sandbox in
>> order to build a community around it. That is the
>> *opposite* of what we
>> want to achieve.
>>
>> If the participation of people currently outside of
>> Apache is necessary to
>> build a community around commons-attributes, then
>> this is a project that
>> should be developed further elsewhere, and perhaps
>> (re-)introduced to the
>> Incubator when that community exists.
>
> It has been developed outside Apache and it does have
> a community around it. It was developed in the Nanning
> project and was donated to commons. The problem was
> that community (or parts of it) did not enter Apache
> at the time of donation and that's what's trying to be fixed.
ok. it sounds to me that we've arrived at the heart of the problem. now
that i know the history of commons-attributes a little better, i'm even
more convinced that bending the rules for attributes may well cause future
problems for jakarta-commons.
jakarta-commons-sandbox isn't really a suitable environment for donated
code without a committer community within apache. that's why things have
become difficult. now that the incubator is up and running, a route
through the incubator (where the rules are different) would have been much
smoother.
i can see several routes out of this empasse. unfortunately, all of these
require someone within apache to step up and take action:
1. a jakarta pmc member could nominate jon as a committer for the sandbox
2. an apache committer could volunteer to push forward commons-attributes
to the stage where it could be promoted to the commons proper (this
shouldn't take too much doing)
3. an apache member could sponsor attributes through the incubator (where
the rules are different)
any volunteers?
- robert
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by Jon Tirsén <jo...@yahoo.com>.
See comments below:
> It seems to me that this is entirely the converse of
> what Apache is about.
> The suggestion here is that a project be promoted
> out of the sandbox in
> order to build a community around it. That is the
> *opposite* of what we
> want to achieve.
>
> If the participation of people currently outside of
> Apache is necessary to
> build a community around commons-attributes, then
> this is a project that
> should be developed further elsewhere, and perhaps
> (re-)introduced to the
> Incubator when that community exists.
It has been developed outside Apache and it does have
a community around it. It was developed in the Nanning
project and was donated to commons. The problem was
that community (or parts of it) did not enter Apache
at the time of donation and that's what's trying to be fixed.
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003, James Strachan wrote:
> So that we can add some more committers to the commons-attributes
> projects to help unify the various attribute-replated projects out
> there (initially commons-attributes and Nanning but maybe eventually
> attrib4j too) I'd like to propose we promote commons-attributes to the
> commons proper. Then we can work on merging the code bases and patches
> and working towards an alpha release.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Promote commons-attributes to commons proper
> [ ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move
> [X] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that this is entirely the converse of what Apache is about.
The suggestion here is that a project be promoted out of the sandbox in
order to build a community around it. That is the *opposite* of what we
want to achieve.
If the participation of people currently outside of Apache is necessary to
build a community around commons-attributes, then this is a project that
should be developed further elsewhere, and perhaps (re-)introduced to the
Incubator when that community exists.
--
Martin Cooper
> James
> -------
> http://radio.weblogs.com/0112098/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@yahoo.com>.
+100. Count me in for coding, infrasctucture, encouragement and enthusiasm!
Here's for one day seeing Nanning itself at Jakarta too (By way of Incubator of course).
- Paul
> So that we can add some more committers to the commons-attributes
> projects to help unify the various attribute-replated projects out
> there (initially commons-attributes and Nanning but maybe eventually
> attrib4j too) I'd like to propose we promote commons-attributes to the
> commons proper. Then we can work on merging the code bases and patches
> and working towards an alpha release.
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Re: [VOTE] promote commons attributes to the commons proper
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@yahoo.co.uk>.
I nearly forgot to vote :)
On Tuesday, June 10, 2003, at 10:30 am, James Strachan wrote:
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Vote: Promote commons-attributes to commons proper
> [X ] +1 I am in favor of the move, and will help support it
> [ ] +0 I am in favor of the move, but am unable to help support it
> [ ] -0 I am not in favor of the move
> [ ] -1 I am against this proposal (must include a reason).
James
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