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Posted to users@wicket.apache.org by James Selvakumar <ja...@mcruncher.com> on 2023/05/11 08:29:11 UTC
Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Hi all,
Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer understand
Wicket?
--
Thanks & regards
James
Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by Kyrindorx <ky...@gmail.com>.
Hello all,
Is the topic "Wicket in Action" the book meant, this was a
misunderstanding, sorry!
I myself still work with Apache Wicket 8.x and maintain a product with
it. We have written our own components and removed the third party
libraries because they are no longer maintained.
In the past years the number of developers, extensions and examples on
the internet has decreased a lot.
The framework is good(!) and it allows a very good base for server-side
rendering without all the JS technologies.
It was noted that many things depend on the scope, requirements, and
knowledge of the developers. Yes, this is all correct!
However, Apache Wicket is comparatively as complex as the modern JS
frameworks and I don't see the Java vs Javascript argument as serious
here. It's more about innovation, product maintenance, and security in
the choice of framework. This includes release cycles, bug fixing,
documentation, and the number of users of a framework. These factors
demonstrably decreased and for a new development or continuation of a
project a risk!
Kind regards
Kyrindor
Am 13.05.2023 um 16:41 schrieb Andrea Del Bene:
> Hi,
>
> I think you have misread the title of the original mail which is about
> a book, "Wicket in Action", and not about Wicket itself. That said, I
> agree when you say that for Wicket might be difficult to find plugin
> and integration libraries available out of the box. That's because
> Wicket is completely lead on a voluntary base and it's not backed by
> any company. But I completely disagree with your conclusion. Wicket
> remains highly flexible and can be used to implement application of
> any size without embrace the canonical JS development stack (npm,
> node, css compilers, etc...) which I personally find overcomplex and
> overbloated to use. In this regard a powerful tool to use with Wicket
> (and with many other Java web frameworks) is project WebJar, which
> makes css/js libraries integration quite easy: https://www.webjars.org.
>
> Andrea.
>
> On 12/05/23 20:14, Kyrindorx wrote:
>> Hey all
>>
>> It is compact, has many functions and does its job well. If you
>> compare it with JSF, Vaadin it compares well.
>>
>> Advantages:
>> - flexible
>> - Java + HTML > is ok
>>
>> Disadvantages:
>> - modern plugins for Wicket: outdated and quite little.
>> - CSS Libs like Bootstrap: outdated and strong coupling (plugin)
>> - use of modern JS techniques + Wicket: difficult
>>
>> Conclusion:
>>
>> For medium sized sites working with Apache Wicket basic components
>> and using Java, HTML and Wicket JQuery > ok.
>>
>> The development of modern JS applications Apache Wicket is (my
>> opinion) outdated. It very good flexible JS frameworks, more plugins,
>> lots of docs and examples. And the number of developers for modern JS
>> frameworks is huge!
>>
>> In the end, I think Apache Wicket is past its prime and we are
>> talking about product maintenance here. I wouldn't develop new big
>> projects with Apache Wicket anymore. Here it is not the evaluation of
>> the framework, but the number of projects and the amount of
>> developers that matters.
>>
>> Greets
>> Kyrindor
>> --
>>
>> Am 11.05.2023 um 14:23 schrieb Andrea Del Bene:
>>> If you are new to Apache Wicket it might be better starting with the
>>> user
>>> guide which is meant for a full introduction from scratch and is
>>> updated.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 11 May 2023, 10:29 James Selvakumar, <ja...@mcruncher.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
>>>> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer
>>>> understand
>>>> Wicket?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks & regards
>>>> James
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by Andrea Del Bene <an...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I think you have misread the title of the original mail which is about a
book, "Wicket in Action", and not about Wicket itself. That said, I
agree when you say that for Wicket might be difficult to find plugin and
integration libraries available out of the box. That's because Wicket is
completely lead on a voluntary base and it's not backed by any company.
But I completely disagree with your conclusion. Wicket remains highly
flexible and can be used to implement application of any size without
embrace the canonical JS development stack (npm, node, css compilers,
etc...) which I personally find overcomplex and overbloated to use. In
this regard a powerful tool to use with Wicket (and with many other Java
web frameworks) is project WebJar, which makes css/js libraries
integration quite easy: https://www.webjars.org.
Andrea.
On 12/05/23 20:14, Kyrindorx wrote:
> Hey all
>
> It is compact, has many functions and does its job well. If you
> compare it with JSF, Vaadin it compares well.
>
> Advantages:
> - flexible
> - Java + HTML > is ok
>
> Disadvantages:
> - modern plugins for Wicket: outdated and quite little.
> - CSS Libs like Bootstrap: outdated and strong coupling (plugin)
> - use of modern JS techniques + Wicket: difficult
>
> Conclusion:
>
> For medium sized sites working with Apache Wicket basic components and
> using Java, HTML and Wicket JQuery > ok.
>
> The development of modern JS applications Apache Wicket is (my
> opinion) outdated. It very good flexible JS frameworks, more plugins,
> lots of docs and examples. And the number of developers for modern JS
> frameworks is huge!
>
> In the end, I think Apache Wicket is past its prime and we are talking
> about product maintenance here. I wouldn't develop new big projects
> with Apache Wicket anymore. Here it is not the evaluation of the
> framework, but the number of projects and the amount of developers
> that matters.
>
> Greets
> Kyrindor
> --
>
> Am 11.05.2023 um 14:23 schrieb Andrea Del Bene:
>> If you are new to Apache Wicket it might be better starting with the
>> user
>> guide which is meant for a full introduction from scratch and is
>> updated.
>>
>> On Thu, 11 May 2023, 10:29 James Selvakumar, <ja...@mcruncher.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
>>> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer
>>> understand
>>> Wicket?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks & regards
>>> James
>>>
>
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>
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Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro <re...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
On Fri, May 12, 2023 at 9:14 PM Kyrindorx <ky...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> It is compact, has many functions and does its job well. If you compare
> it with JSF, Vaadin it compares well.
>
> Advantages:
> - flexible
> - Java + HTML > is ok
>
Huge advantages, only my opinion, you forgot to mention
1. You can do very complex applications with backend developers (Java
developers) who know little about JavaScript. You have a team member that
knows JavaScript and low level things well and the rest just use
components and Java. Many times those backend developers can fix and
implement complex issues without waiting for the javaScript guy coming back
from holidays. The slogan on NodeJS was JavaScript at all levels. Wicket is
Java at all levels (if you have a guru on board hiding JavaScript for the
rest of the team).
2. You can maintain huge applications with very few developers.
3. Many applications do not need to scale. Just provide as much
functionality as possible with as less maintenance cost as possible. Wicket
excels on that.
4. Secure.
> Disadvantages:
> - modern plugins for Wicket: outdated and quite little.
>
True. Sadly many companies just want to leach open source and not pay
developers to contribute. And developers just want to do trendy things that
help you land good jobs.
- CSS Libs like Bootstrap: outdated and strong coupling (plugin)
>
Who forces you to use those libraries? I have used wicket and bootstrap
together with minimal use of those libraries.
> - use of modern JS techniques + Wicket: difficult
>
Stated like this, this is just an opinion.
One big disadvantage of wicket (IMHO) is it is difficult to grasp and
understand for developers. Concepts like detaching and the request cycle
are difficult to explain and more difficult to keep pages small after
detach.
> Conclusion:
>
> For medium sized sites working with Apache Wicket basic components and
> using Java, HTML and Wicket JQuery > ok.
>
Again this is just your opinion. I have built/worked on many wicket
applications with very strong use of JavaScript and very dynamic client
side behavior.
>
> The development of modern JS applications Apache Wicket is (my opinion)
> outdated. It very good flexible JS frameworks, more plugins, lots of
> docs and examples. And the number of developers for modern JS frameworks
> is huge!
>
True.
>
> In the end, I think Apache Wicket is past its prime and we are talking
> about product maintenance here. I wouldn't develop new big projects with
> Apache Wicket anymore. Here it is not the evaluation of the framework,
> but the number of projects and the amount of developers that matters.
>
This depends on your goals and the needs these applications have.
> Greets
> Kyrindor
> --
>
> Am 11.05.2023 um 14:23 schrieb Andrea Del Bene:
> > If you are new to Apache Wicket it might be better starting with the user
> > guide which is meant for a full introduction from scratch and is updated.
> >
> > On Thu, 11 May 2023, 10:29 James Selvakumar, <ja...@mcruncher.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
> >> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer
> understand
> >> Wicket?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Thanks & regards
> >> James
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards - Ernesto Reinaldo Barreiro
Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by Kyrindorx <ky...@gmail.com>.
Hey all
It is compact, has many functions and does its job well. If you compare
it with JSF, Vaadin it compares well.
Advantages:
- flexible
- Java + HTML > is ok
Disadvantages:
- modern plugins for Wicket: outdated and quite little.
- CSS Libs like Bootstrap: outdated and strong coupling (plugin)
- use of modern JS techniques + Wicket: difficult
Conclusion:
For medium sized sites working with Apache Wicket basic components and
using Java, HTML and Wicket JQuery > ok.
The development of modern JS applications Apache Wicket is (my opinion)
outdated. It very good flexible JS frameworks, more plugins, lots of
docs and examples. And the number of developers for modern JS frameworks
is huge!
In the end, I think Apache Wicket is past its prime and we are talking
about product maintenance here. I wouldn't develop new big projects with
Apache Wicket anymore. Here it is not the evaluation of the framework,
but the number of projects and the amount of developers that matters.
Greets
Kyrindor
--
Am 11.05.2023 um 14:23 schrieb Andrea Del Bene:
> If you are new to Apache Wicket it might be better starting with the user
> guide which is meant for a full introduction from scratch and is updated.
>
> On Thu, 11 May 2023, 10:29 James Selvakumar, <ja...@mcruncher.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
>> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer understand
>> Wicket?
>>
>> --
>> Thanks & regards
>> James
>>
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Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by Andrea Del Bene <an...@gmail.com>.
If you are new to Apache Wicket it might be better starting with the user
guide which is meant for a full introduction from scratch and is updated.
On Thu, 11 May 2023, 10:29 James Selvakumar, <ja...@mcruncher.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer understand
> Wicket?
>
> --
> Thanks & regards
> James
>
Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by James Selvakumar <ja...@mcruncher.com>.
Hi all,
Thank you very much for all your replies.
Like Stan, I too learned Wicket primarily through Wicket In Action and like
it very much.
Thanks Andrea, for the pointer to Wicket Guide. It's very nice.
I'll use both the book and the guide to train our new resources.
On Thu, May 11, 2023 at 8:43 PM Bergmann Manfred <mb...@software-by-mabe.com>
wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I think it actually targets Wicket 1.4, without generics.
>
> But yes, the general concepts are still largely intact. Though many
> details have changed.
>
>
>
> Manfred
>
>
> > Am 11.05.2023 um 11:41 schrieb stan@stantastic.nl.invalid
> <st...@stantastic.nl.INVALID>:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I learned Wicket primarily by using this book. I think it was intended
> to be used with Wicket 6 at the time it was published. But I used it with
> Wicket 8 and it was still a really good resource. I still browse through it
> occasionally.
> >
> > There still are some gotchas when used with Wicket 9, such as CSP and
> the way resources are loaded is slightly different IIRC.
> >
> > But if you want to get someone to grasp the basics of Wicket, it is a
> really good resource. I'm a fan.
> >
> > - Stan
> >
> >
> > James Selvakumar schreef op 2023-05-11 10:29:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
> >> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer
> understand
> >> Wicket?
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
>
--
Thanks & regards
James
Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by Bergmann Manfred <mb...@software-by-mabe.com>.
Hi.
I think it actually targets Wicket 1.4, without generics.
But yes, the general concepts are still largely intact. Though many details have changed.
Manfred
> Am 11.05.2023 um 11:41 schrieb stan@stantastic.nl.invalid <st...@stantastic.nl.INVALID>:
>
> Hi,
>
> I learned Wicket primarily by using this book. I think it was intended to be used with Wicket 6 at the time it was published. But I used it with Wicket 8 and it was still a really good resource. I still browse through it occasionally.
>
> There still are some gotchas when used with Wicket 9, such as CSP and the way resources are loaded is slightly different IIRC.
>
> But if you want to get someone to grasp the basics of Wicket, it is a really good resource. I'm a fan.
>
> - Stan
>
>
> James Selvakumar schreef op 2023-05-11 10:29:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
>> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer understand
>> Wicket?
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@wicket.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@wicket.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Is Wicket In Action still relevant?
Posted by st...@stantastic.nl.INVALID.
Hi,
I learned Wicket primarily by using this book. I think it was intended
to be used with Wicket 6 at the time it was published. But I used it
with Wicket 8 and it was still a really good resource. I still browse
through it occasionally.
There still are some gotchas when used with Wicket 9, such as CSP and
the way resources are loaded is slightly different IIRC.
But if you want to get someone to grasp the basics of Wicket, it is a
really good resource. I'm a fan.
- Stan
James Selvakumar schreef op 2023-05-11 10:29:
> Hi all,
>
> Just wondering whether Wicket in Action is still relevant with all the
> recent changes to Wicket? Can it be used to help a new developer
> understand
> Wicket?
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