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Posted to community@apache.org by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com> on 2002/10/28 22:29:17 UTC
idiot.html Re: [VOTE] Open this list
Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org> writes:
[...]
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idiot.html
What is the point of that url? Do other ASF projects (php?)
have similar links on their support site?
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: idiot.html
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
And I'll be using Sam as a human blast shield ;-)
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>>
>> If it doesn't reflect the attitude of the jakarta community, but
>> instead represents the views of one individual, then doesn't the page
>> belong in his subdirectory? I dunno, something like
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon/idiot.html
>>
>> might be more appropriate.
>
>
> Hey - I've got an idea! Why don't *YOU* suggest this to Jon? I'll be
> right behind you. *WAY* behind you. ;-)
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>
>
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Re: idiot.html
Posted by Daniel Rall <dl...@finemaltcoding.com>.
Okay, it was funny the first time, but now it's REALLY FUNNY!
/me is laughing so hard he's nearly in tears
"Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> writes:
> Using Sam as a blast shield seems safer ;-)
>
> Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> > Joe Schaefer wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon than
> >> Sam. What's the point of local governance if the governing bodies
> >> are incapable of dealing with trivial issues like this one?
--
Daniel Rall <dl...@finemaltcoding.com>
Re: idiot.html
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
Using Sam as a blast shield seems safer ;-)
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>>
>> With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon than
>> Sam. What's the point of local governance if the governing bodies
>> are incapable of dealing with trivial issues like this one?
>
>
> FYI: Jon was the person who first nominated me as chair of Jakarta:
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html
>
> and this vote occurred on the general@jakarta.apache.org mailing list:
>
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=98028130104993&w=2
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> P.S. Jon was also the one who nominated me as an ASF member.
>
>
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Re: idiot.html
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon than
> Sam. What's the point of local governance if the governing bodies
> are incapable of dealing with trivial issues like this one?
FYI: Jon was the person who first nominated me as chair of Jakarta:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/pmc/01-01-17-meeting-minutes.html
and this vote occurred on the general@jakarta.apache.org mailing list:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=98028130104993&w=2
- Sam Ruby
P.S. Jon was also the one who nominated me as an ASF member.
Re: idiot.html
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
James Taylor wrote:
>>>As long as 'professional' != stodgy then okay. But I'll let *you*
>>>remove it while I stand behind Sam and use him as a blast shield. (who
>>>mentioned he'd be standing right behind you farrrr behind you)
>>>
>>>
>>With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon than
>>Sam. What's the point of local governance if the governing bodies
>>are incapable of dealing with trivial issues like this one?
>>
>>
>
>Um, we have dealt with it. Quite easily in fact. Solution: No one cares
>enough to change it.
>
>( Frankly I agree that it is not the most professional thing, but if it
>goes away the hotheads will just find another way to piss people off.
>We're a pretty eccentric community, cope. )
>
>
more adequately put... Don't sweat the small things. I mean geesh its
just a little page that someone can send if need be.
If someone cares SOoooo much and is willing to deal with the
reprocussions, go for it. Perhaps asking him to move it to his ~jon
pages would be appropriate. However I think having a long thread on
this is probably more than its worth myself....but I'm a man man so what
do I know ;-)
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
>
Re: idiot.html
Posted by James Taylor <jt...@4lane.com>.
> > As long as 'professional' != stodgy then okay. But I'll let *you*
> > remove it while I stand behind Sam and use him as a blast shield. (who
> > mentioned he'd be standing right behind you farrrr behind you)
>
> With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon than
> Sam. What's the point of local governance if the governing bodies
> are incapable of dealing with trivial issues like this one?
Um, we have dealt with it. Quite easily in fact. Solution: No one cares
enough to change it.
( Frankly I agree that it is not the most professional thing, but if it
goes away the hotheads will just find another way to piss people off.
We're a pretty eccentric community, cope. )
Re: love.html
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
10/29/2002 8:24:38 AM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>
wrote:
>With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon
>than Sam. What's the point of local governance if the
>governing bodies are incapable of dealing with trivial issues
>like this
>one?
Joe, we're kidding. =:0)
As mentioned, elsewhere, if you'd like to submit a patch, I'd
be happy to apply it. But the page is not linked through the
site. It's apparently something Jon mailed to people.
Jon always did a lot of work on the Jakarta site, so personally
I cut him a lot of slack. He did the work, and so he made the
decisions. When I do the work, I make the decisions, and if
someone doesn't like what I do, they can post their
alternative, and the community can choose between them.
If you disagree with the wording of this page, then its up to
*you* to do the work of providing an alternative. Assuming that
its less offensive than the original, having the karma, I'd be
happy to post your patch.
-Ted.
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>.
"Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org> writes:
[...]
> >should the apache web sites contain 'professional' (as in 'professionalism')
> >content? if so, does this page apply?
> >
> >
> As long as 'professional' != stodgy then okay. But I'll let *you*
> remove it while I stand behind Sam and use him as a blast shield. (who
> mentioned he'd be standing right behind you farrrr behind you)
With all due respect, you might be safer standing behind Jon than
Sam. What's the point of local governance if the governing bodies
are incapable of dealing with trivial issues like this one?
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: idiot.html
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@apache.org>.
>
>
>ha, ha. i see the humour. however, someone seeing that on an official
>apache web site is going to think it represents the overall apache viewpoint.
>i personally don't particularly care to be labelled by it.
>
>should the apache web sites contain 'professional' (as in 'professionalism')
>content? if so, does this page apply?
>
>
As long as 'professional' != stodgy then okay. But I'll let *you*
remove it while I stand behind Sam and use him as a blast shield. (who
mentioned he'd be standing right behind you farrrr behind you)
-Andy
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Glen Stampoultzis <gs...@iprimus.com.au>.
>
>there is one particular flame war that i remember. someone asked a tomcat
>question. i quite politely offered a possible solution but told them to
>ask on the tomcat list since that's where all the experts hang out. this
>descended quickly into a hideous flame war.
Since moving general@ down to the bottom of the list we get much fewer
postings from people asking about tomcat. Small changes can make a big
difference.
Regards,
Glen
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
...
> but i'm not sure how much more can be done. the lists are so busy that
> they have to be policed.
>
> it'd be a good idea to come up with some better solutions. maybe we
> could increase the size of the email footers
Is it technically possible to add *headers* instead of increasing
footers? Even one liner such as "You are reading general-jakarta mailing
list (rules are _here_)" will help (imho).
Vadim
> so that it'd be more obvious that you're reading a post to an apache
> list and that the list has certain rules which are supposed to be obeyed.
>
> - robert
...
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>.
robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org> writes:
> one of the continual battles we've had at jakarta is policing the
> mailing list and general in particular.
>
> people wanting to join a mailing list from the jakarta list have to go
> through two pages to get the actual lists in order to try to reduce
> the need for people to police the list guidelines. but this doesn't
> seem to be enough. we still get people posting who haven't taken the
> time or effort to read what's been created to help them.
>
> jon started taking a lot of the responsibility for policing very soon
> after the change from java@apache to jakarta@apache. he started off
> with elan and humour but over the years his responses got shorter and
> more curt as it became a chore. hence the jon.html which had to be
> used when people took it too personally.
>
> one problem which has become apparent over the last year or so is that
> jakarta lists are very widely mirrored - including onto news. this
> means that people post to our lists never having read the list
> guidelines or (as has happened in a couple of cases) not even
> realizing that they are on a mailing list.
Thanks alot for taking the time to dispassionately explain
the situation *such as it is*. It's exactly the kind of answer
I was hoping for. Unfortunately I don't know what sort of magic
is required to make everybody happy, but I do know there are other
online developer communities that have experienced similar growing
pains.
It might not hurt to survey some prior art; IME perl's p5p
developer list is exceptionally well-managed. I don't have
first-hand experience with the php developer community, but
from my distant vantage point, they seem to be managing their
growth pretty well (at least angst-free).
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: idiot.html
Posted by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
one of the continual battles we've had at jakarta is policing the mailing
list and general in particular.
people wanting to join a mailing list from the jakarta list have to go
through two pages to get the actual lists in order to try to reduce the
need for people to police the list guidelines. but this doesn't seem to be
enough. we still get people posting who haven't taken the time or effort
to read what's been created to help them.
jon started taking a lot of the responsibility for policing very soon
after the change from java@apache to jakarta@apache. he started off with
elan and humour but over the years his responses got shorter and more curt
as it became a chore. hence the jon.html which had to be used when people
took it too personally.
one problem which has become apparent over the last year or so is that
jakarta lists are very widely mirrored - including onto news. this means
that people post to our lists never having read the list guidelines or (as
has happened in a couple of cases) not even realizing that they are on a
mailing list.
there is one particular flame war that i remember. someone asked a tomcat
question. i quite politely offered a possible solution but told them to
ask on the tomcat list since that's where all the experts hang out. this
descended quickly into a hideous flame war.
the poster had no idea that he was on a list with rules and took it as a
personal insult that i'd suggested that he should read the rules and take
his question elsewhere. i am of the opinion that life's too short to waste
talking to people like that and so i left him to rot but unfortunately his
replies were so strongly worded that he drew the collective wrath of the
jakarta community down upon his head. he didn't have the good sense to
stop arguing and the flame war went on for several days with numerous
posts. until finally he quite vocally quit the list.
this is the context in which to understand (and judge) love.html and idiot.
html. they are informative and offensive. posting one of those urls to
someone who is out of line on a list is a very effective way of policing.
it is also very harsh. i personally think that people deserve a chance and
that strong responses lead to other people being too frightened to post.
but i'm not sure how much more can be done. the lists are so busy that
they have to be policed.
it'd be a good idea to come up with some better solutions. maybe we could
increase the size of the email footers so that it'd be more obvious that
you're reading a post to an apache list and that the list has certain
rules which are supposed to be obeyed.
- robert
On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 03:08 PM, Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>>
>> I'm guessing Jon mailed people the URL as a list moderator.
>>
>
> The first time I saw it used was when someone asked a tomcat question on
> general and was kindly requested to take his question to the tomcat list.
> He
> replied : I'm on the correct list, so why don't you answer me.. Then jon
> replied with his url. After that it happend one more time afaik, which was
> an immidiate reply with the url. ;) (probably the previous issue still
> remained in memory..)
> Just search on love.html and idiot.html to follow the discussion we had
> about it on the general list..;)
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
RE: idiot.html
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ma...@isallineed.org>.
>
> I'm guessing Jon mailed people the URL as a list moderator.
>
The first time I saw it used was when someone asked a tomcat question on
general and was kindly requested to take his question to the tomcat list. He
replied : I'm on the correct list, so why don't you answer me.. Then jon
replied with his url. After that it happend one more time afaik, which was
an immidiate reply with the url. ;) (probably the previous issue still
remained in memory..)
Just search on love.html and idiot.html to follow the discussion we had
about it on the general list..;)
Mvgr,
Martin
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Kurt Schrader wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Ted Husted wrote:
>
>
>
>>10/29/2002 6:33:40 AM, Rodent of Unusual Size
>><Ke...@Golux.Com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ha, ha. i see the humour. however, someone seeing that on an
>>>official apache web site is going to think it represents the
>>>overall apache viewpoint. i personally don't particularly care
>>>to be labelled by it. should the apache web sites contain
>>>'professional' (as in >'professionalism') content? if so,
>>>does this page apply?
>>>
>>>
>>Ah, well, it's not visible. None of the other pages link to it.
>>I'm guessing Jon mailed people the URL as a list moderator.
>>
>>
>
>For further reference you might also want to check out:
>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html
>
>
Nice shades!
>-Kurt
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Kurt Schrader <ks...@karmalab.org>.
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Ted Husted wrote:
> 10/29/2002 6:33:40 AM, Rodent of Unusual Size
> <Ke...@Golux.Com> wrote:
> >ha, ha. i see the humour. however, someone seeing that on an
> >official apache web site is going to think it represents the
> >overall apache viewpoint. i personally don't particularly care
> >to be labelled by it. should the apache web sites contain
> >'professional' (as in >'professionalism') content? if so,
> >does this page apply?
>
> Ah, well, it's not visible. None of the other pages link to it.
> I'm guessing Jon mailed people the URL as a list moderator.
For further reference you might also want to check out:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html
-Kurt
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
10/29/2002 6:33:40 AM, Rodent of Unusual Size
<Ke...@Golux.Com> wrote:
>ha, ha. i see the humour. however, someone seeing that on an
>official apache web site is going to think it represents the
>overall apache viewpoint. i personally don't particularly care
>to be labelled by it. should the apache web sites contain
>'professional' (as in >'professionalism') content? if so,
>does this page apply?
Ah, well, it's not visible. None of the other pages link to it.
I'm guessing Jon mailed people the URL as a list moderator.
If it were linked to something, I'd change it in a heartbeat.
But since I don't know what it is actually for, I've just left
it alone =:)
But if anyone wants to submit a patch, I'd be happy to apply
it.
Hopefully, lists like this will help expose us to a greater
number of other Apaches, so we can getter a better sense of the
community view. At Jakarta, the kindler/gentler ASF Members,
like Sam and Craig, sometimes seem like the minority.
-Ted.
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Rodent of Unusual Size <Ke...@Golux.Com>.
Sam Ruby wrote:
>
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
> >
> > If it doesn't reflect the attitude of the jakarta community,
> > but instead represents the views of one individual, then doesn't
> > the page belong in his subdirectory? I dunno, something like
> >
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon/idiot.html
> >
> > might be more appropriate.
>
> Hey - I've got an idea! Why don't *YOU* suggest this to Jon? I'll be
> right behind you. *WAY* behind you. ;-)
ha, ha. i see the humour. however, someone seeing that on an official
apache web site is going to think it represents the overall apache viewpoint.
i personally don't particularly care to be labelled by it.
should the apache web sites contain 'professional' (as in 'professionalism')
content? if so, does this page apply?
--
#ken P-)}
Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist http://Apache-Server.Com/
"Millennium hand and shrimp!"
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> If it doesn't reflect the attitude of the jakarta community,
> but instead represents the views of one individual, then doesn't
> the page belong in his subdirectory? I dunno, something like
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon/idiot.html
>
> might be more appropriate.
Hey - I've got an idea! Why don't *YOU* suggest this to Jon? I'll be
right behind you. *WAY* behind you. ;-)
- Sam Ruby
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
> > As I said before, Jon is unique.
>
> I hope he is a Apache member!
>
You bet.
Jon, Pier and I were nominated by Brian Behlendorf in 1999 and where the
first three committers coming from the java world that later became
jakarta/xml
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
>>
>> I like the love.html alternative - is embrassing, more depth, warmth,
>> and has a level of empathy that somehow get's lost in the other
>> document.
>>
>> Cheers, Steve.
>>
>> :-D
>
>
> FYI:
>
> [rubys@daedalus site]$ls -l love.*
> lrwxrwxr-x 1 jon jakarta 10 Jul 17 09:47 love.html -> idiot.html
Yes - I had figured this out - but the context set's the tone - start of
with idiot and your on the offensive and every word is offensive. Start
of with love and your context changes. Hense the deep and meaninful
nature of the second version!
;-)
>
> As I said before, Jon is unique.
I hope he is a Apache member!
Steve.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Stephen McConnell wrote:
>
> I like the love.html alternative - is embrassing, more depth, warmth,
> and has a level of empathy that somehow get's lost in the other document.
>
> Cheers, Steve.
>
> :-D
FYI:
[rubys@daedalus site]$ls -l love.*
lrwxrwxr-x 1 jon jakarta 10 Jul 17 09:47 love.html -> idiot.html
As I said before, Jon is unique.
- Sam Ruby
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Martin van den Bemt wrote:
>Please see http://jakarta.apache.org/site/love.html as an alternative...
>
>
I like the love.html alternative - is embrassing, more depth, warmth,
and has a level of empathy that somehow get's lost in the other document.
Cheers, Steve.
:-D
>Mvgr,
>Martin
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe+apache@sunstarsys.com]
>>Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 23:20
>>To: community@apache.org
>>Subject: Re: idiot.html
>>
>>
>>Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Joe Schaefer wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idiot.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>What is the point of that url? Do other ASF projects (php?)
>>>>have similar links on their support site?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>No, I think that's unique.
>>>
>>>It is a long story, and has everything to do with one individual.
>>>
>>>
>>If it doesn't reflect the attitude of the jakarta community,
>>but instead represents the views of one individual, then doesn't
>>the page belong in his subdirectory? I dunno, something like
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon/idiot.html
>>
>>might be more appropriate.
>>
>>--
>>Joe Schaefer
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: community-unsubscribe@apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: community-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
OSM SARL
digital products for a global economy
mailto:mcconnell@osm.net
http://www.osm.net
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
The Jakarta website is managed by lazy consensus. If any of us
working on the site actually took issue with that page, we'd
just change it. I've often toned down some of the pages posted
by our favorite PITA -- and have even been called a "wimp" for
doing so. But no one's ever reverted my changes afterwards.
-Ted.
10/28/2002 7:54:41 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>
wrote:
>Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org> writes:
>
>
>> It has been pointed out that Jakarta committers have had
very little
>> exposure to ASF members. Don't judge Jakarta committers by
the
>> actions of the few ASF members that have cared enough to
participate.
>
>I'm not judging the jakarta committers, certainly not
negatively.
>I'm just trying to get some feeling for what the problems are,
>how they are resolved in different developer communities.
>
>[...]
>
>> Here's an exercise for you: find a similar document created
by a
>> non-ASF member.
>
>That's trivial- google("Smoothwall"). You can get the gist of
>their contempt for their "free" userbase just by reading
>
> http://www.smoothwall.co.uk/support/
>
>--
>Joe Schaefer
>
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Re: idiot.html
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>.
Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org> writes:
> It has been pointed out that Jakarta committers have had very little
> exposure to ASF members. Don't judge Jakarta committers by the
> actions of the few ASF members that have cared enough to participate.
I'm not judging the jakarta committers, certainly not negatively.
I'm just trying to get some feeling for what the problems are,
how they are resolved in different developer communities.
[...]
> Here's an exercise for you: find a similar document created by a
> non-ASF member.
That's trivial- google("Smoothwall"). You can get the gist of
their contempt for their "free" userbase just by reading
http://www.smoothwall.co.uk/support/
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
> For the sake of argument, you may assume I have looked at
> every document in the http://jakarta.apache.org/site/
> directory. If you don't see what I'm driving at yet, I
> encourage you to post the url of a similar document anywhere
> else in the ASF (outside of the jakarta family, of course).
Careful. As I have been saying before, there are multiple ways to look
at these things.
It has been pointed out that Jakarta committers have had very little
exposure to ASF members. Don't judge Jakarta committers by the actions
of the few ASF members that have cared enough to participate. Like Jon.
Here's an exercise for you: find a similar document created by a non-ASF
member.
- Sam Ruby
Re: idiot.html
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>.
"Martin van den Bemt" <ma...@isallineed.org> writes:
> Please see http://jakarta.apache.org/site/love.html as an
> alternative...
For the sake of argument, you may assume I have looked at
every document in the http://jakarta.apache.org/site/
directory. If you don't see what I'm driving at yet, I
encourage you to post the url of a similar document anywhere
else in the ASF (outside of the jakarta family, of course).
--
Joe Schaefer
RE: idiot.html
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ma...@isallineed.org>.
Please see http://jakarta.apache.org/site/love.html as an alternative...
Mvgr,
Martin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Schaefer [mailto:joe+apache@sunstarsys.com]
> Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 23:20
> To: community@apache.org
> Subject: Re: idiot.html
>
>
> Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org> writes:
>
> > Joe Schaefer wrote:
> > >
> > >>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idiot.html
> > >
> > > What is the point of that url? Do other ASF projects (php?)
> > > have similar links on their support site?
> >
> > No, I think that's unique.
> >
> > It is a long story, and has everything to do with one individual.
>
> If it doesn't reflect the attitude of the jakarta community,
> but instead represents the views of one individual, then doesn't
> the page belong in his subdirectory? I dunno, something like
>
> http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon/idiot.html
>
> might be more appropriate.
>
> --
> Joe Schaefer
>
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Re: idiot.html
Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@sunstarsys.com>.
Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org> writes:
> Joe Schaefer wrote:
> >
> >>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idiot.html
> >
> > What is the point of that url? Do other ASF projects (php?)
> > have similar links on their support site?
>
> No, I think that's unique.
>
> It is a long story, and has everything to do with one individual.
If it doesn't reflect the attitude of the jakarta community,
but instead represents the views of one individual, then doesn't
the page belong in his subdirectory? I dunno, something like
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon/idiot.html
might be more appropriate.
--
Joe Schaefer
Re: idiot.html Re: [VOTE] Open this list
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Joe Schaefer wrote:
>
>>http://jakarta.apache.org/site/idiot.html
>
> What is the point of that url? Do other ASF projects (php?)
> have similar links on their support site?
No, I think that's unique.
It is a long story, and has everything to do with one individual. You
can read more about that individual here:
http://jakarta.apache.org/site/jon.html
- Sam Ruby