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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by natalie guttridge <na...@hotmail.co.uk> on 2014/01/04 14:04:03 UTC
All essay text turned to hashtags
Please help
My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be done?
Regards
Natalie
Sent from my iPad
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Rima Schulkind <ri...@schulkind.com>.
Despite my fear of being considered too dumb to use OO, here's my experience: when a document I was working on (just trying to insert a line by hitting "return" between two lines) suddenly became all hashtag gibberish - as then did all my stored OO files - I reinstalled OO. And all was well.
On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:47:59 +0100
>> Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hagar Delest wrote:
>>>> losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data
>>>> loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as
>>>> seriously as possible.
>>>> No bashing needed, just look at the facts.
>>>
>>> The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many
>>> users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in
>>> ten millions save operations will get reported.
>>>
>>> It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document.
>>> But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or
>>> the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you,
>>> I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a
>>> similar problem.
>>>
>>> A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to
>>> deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I
>>> opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it
>>> normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due
>>> to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O
>>> error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error.
>>> But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images
>>> did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too
>>> (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe
>>> this deserves a better investigation.
>>>
>>> It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk
>>> (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's
>>> not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this
>>> scenario can be reproduced.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I think there are two problems here, which both Hagar and I are aware of from the Forum. One is the Hashtag problem, which I agree is not readily reproducible and in many cases may be caused by over hasty close down of OO or operating system, the other associated problem is the erasure of the saved copy which seems to occur often alongside the hashtag problem; no matter what causes the hashtag problem, I'm sure we all agree that a saved copy of the file should not be spontaneously erased.
>>
>> The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to _always_ generate a backup.
>>
>
> That would introduce other failure modes:
>
> 1) User would require disk space for two complete copies of the
> document. So in the marginal case a user might load a document,
> change just a character and then be unable to save.
>
> 2) Some file systems handle modify and create permissions separately.
> So you could have the ability to modify a document, but not create a
> new (temporary) one.
>
> There are certainly cases where such an approach could help. But it
> is tricky when dealing with the exceptions.
>
> The other thing to watch for is that some users cannot find their
> files after saving, even if there is no problem with the saving. They
> forget the same, what folder they used, etc.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> If the user turns such an option off, then on his own head be the responsibility for file loss!
>>
>> I should say that I have not experienced the hashtag problem in 6 years of heavy use of OO Writer on Windows 2000/XP or linux systems.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 7:23 AM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:47:59 +0100
> Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hagar Delest wrote:
>> > losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data
>> > loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as
>> > seriously as possible.
>> > No bashing needed, just look at the facts.
>>
>> The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many
>> users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in
>> ten millions save operations will get reported.
>>
>> It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document.
>> But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or
>> the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you,
>> I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a
>> similar problem.
>>
>> A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to
>> deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I
>> opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it
>> normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due
>> to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O
>> error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error.
>> But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images
>> did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too
>> (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe
>> this deserves a better investigation.
>>
>> It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk
>> (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's
>> not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this
>> scenario can be reproduced.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>
>
> I think there are two problems here, which both Hagar and I are aware of from the Forum. One is the Hashtag problem, which I agree is not readily reproducible and in many cases may be caused by over hasty close down of OO or operating system, the other associated problem is the erasure of the saved copy which seems to occur often alongside the hashtag problem; no matter what causes the hashtag problem, I'm sure we all agree that a saved copy of the file should not be spontaneously erased.
>
> The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to _always_ generate a backup.
>
That would introduce other failure modes:
1) User would require disk space for two complete copies of the
document. So in the marginal case a user might load a document,
change just a character and then be unable to save.
2) Some file systems handle modify and create permissions separately.
So you could have the ability to modify a document, but not create a
new (temporary) one.
There are certainly cases where such an approach could help. But it
is tricky when dealing with the exceptions.
The other thing to watch for is that some users cannot find their
files after saving, even if there is no problem with the saving. They
forget the same, what folder they used, etc.
-Rob
> If the user turns such an option off, then on his own head be the responsibility for file loss!
>
> I should say that I have not experienced the hashtag problem in 6 years of heavy use of OO Writer on Windows 2000/XP or linux systems.
>
>
>
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Martin Groenescheij <Ma...@Groenescheij.COM>.
On 5-1-2014 23:23, Rory O'Farrell wrote:
> The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to_always_ generate a backup.
What happens with the backup when you work on a writer and a calc
document e.g. test.odt and test.ods?
I have no idea if test.bak is a writer or a calc document.
What will happen if both backups are made at the same time, would they
corrupt the backup file?
Could something similar happen with auto recovery files?
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:47:59 +0100
Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hagar Delest wrote:
> > losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data
> > loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as
> > seriously as possible.
> > No bashing needed, just look at the facts.
>
> The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many
> users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in
> ten millions save operations will get reported.
>
> It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document.
> But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or
> the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you,
> I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a
> similar problem.
>
> A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to
> deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I
> opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it
> normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due
> to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O
> error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error.
> But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images
> did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too
> (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe
> this deserves a better investigation.
>
> It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk
> (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's
> not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this
> scenario can be reproduced.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
I think there are two problems here, which both Hagar and I are aware of from the Forum. One is the Hashtag problem, which I agree is not readily reproducible and in many cases may be caused by over hasty close down of OO or operating system, the other associated problem is the erasure of the saved copy which seems to occur often alongside the hashtag problem; no matter what causes the hashtag problem, I'm sure we all agree that a saved copy of the file should not be spontaneously erased.
The question should be asked "When does OpenOffice erase the previous copy of the file?". Surely this should only be after the Save process reaches a conclusion. I can recollect from my CP/M days that one had to adopt a certain sequence in saving a file for best security. One saved the file to File.new (say), then renamed File.org to File.bak then renamed File.new to File.org. Is this or a similar protocol being followed in OO? Perhaps some temporary relief can be obtained by changing the options in OpenOffice to _always_ generate a backup.
If the user turns such an option off, then on his own head be the responsibility for file loss!
I should say that I have not experienced the hashtag problem in 6 years of heavy use of OO Writer on Windows 2000/XP or linux systems.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:12:20 +0000
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:07:27 +0100
> Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Am 05.01.2014 15:06, schrieb Hagar Delest:
> >
> > > The power shortage is clearly a root cause.
> > > Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug
> > > during a save operation.
> >
> > Whats about the autorecovery function of AOO.
>
> It can work, but for critical work relying on it can be catastrophic in the instances that it fails.
>
> With an unimportant file, try pulling your power cord a few times; it is not 10% reliable..
Sorry! 10% should read 100%
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
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>
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Sun, 05 Jan 2014 17:07:27 +0100
Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Am 05.01.2014 15:06, schrieb Hagar Delest:
>
> > The power shortage is clearly a root cause.
> > Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug
> > during a save operation.
>
> Whats about the autorecovery function of AOO.
It can work, but for critical work relying on it can be catastrophic in the instances that it fails.
With an unimportant file, try pulling your power cord a few times; it is not 10% reliable..
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Josef Latt <Jo...@gmx.net>.
Am 05.01.2014 15:06, schrieb Hagar Delest:
> The power shortage is clearly a root cause.
> Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug
> during a save operation.
Whats about the autorecovery function of AOO.
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le 05/01/2014 12:47, Andrea Pescetti a écrit :
> A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error. But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too (of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe this deserves a better investigation.
In this case, at least you've some text remaining and the file is not empty.
> It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk (I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this scenario can be reproduced.
The power shortage is clearly a root cause.
Perhaps we need an old disk to test what happens when we pull the plug during a save operation.
Hagar
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Hagar Delest wrote:
> losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data
> loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as
> seriously as possible.
> No bashing needed, just look at the facts.
The problem here is all with reproducing the bug. OpenOffice has so many
users, on so many systems, that even a problem that occurs, say, once in
ten millions save operations will get reported.
It's a fact that there exist some users who report losing a document.
But it's not even clear if the culprit in those cases is OpenOffice, or
the operating system, or a RAM problem, or a disk failure... Like you,
I've been a regular OpenOffice user for many years and I never had a
similar problem.
A random note if this can help: to study this problem, once I tried to
deliberately fill the hard disk until I had a few MBytes free. Then I
opened a heavy presentation file, with many images, and edited it
normally, adding and removing content. An automatic backup failed (due
to the full disk) and I think an error message was displayed (I/O
error). I then tried a save operation, which failed with the same error.
But then I was stuck: the file I was editing was corrupted (the images
did not display) and the last saved version on disk was corrupted too
(of course this was a test so I had made a backup before testing). Maybe
this deserves a better investigation.
It could be that some or all of these bug reports are due to a full disk
(I do know some people who work with <100 MBytes free on disk, so it's
not even a "1 in millions" scenario). The good thing is that this
scenario can be reproduced.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le 05/01/2014 10:30, Aspects a écrit :
> With apologies, but can we get back to finding a solution to this problem rather than slagging each other (and AOO) off.
>
> I have used this suite since version 2 on OS X, Linux and Both 32 and 64-bit versions of Windows. I have only ever suffered minor glitches with formatting and some eccentricities with the spell-checker: both of them known and cured at the next minor version update.
So do I (on Windows 2K, XP, Vista, 7, x/ubuntu) and never had this problem (using AOO 8 hours a day at work on Windows systems).
But there are enough reports to confirm that there IS a problem somewhere. A clear root cause is power shortage (that is different than just killing the soffice process). What is not clear for me is if the shortage has to occur during a save process or not and in what step of the save process. NB: some reports seems to tell that no process was involved during the shortage. A disk cache issue then?
> This is unusual and sounds very much as if a file format was wrongly applied at the last save. Can we all concentrate on getting these two problems solved: finding some way of recovering the document and tracing down the glitch that caused this.
I'm definitively sure that this is not a file format issue: the content of the file is full of zeros. There is absolutely nothing left. So no recovery possible.
Some will find the rants from users FUD but I do understand such rants. This is a good reason to be furious against the application. I understand a problem during save process so I would put up with losing the new version of the file I'm saving (I mean the last edits). But losing the file saved last time is just unacceptable, it's a major data loss (P1 in the bug tracker). This problem should be investigated as seriously as possible.
No bashing needed, just look at the facts.
Hagar
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Aspects <pa...@aspects.net>.
With apologies, but can we get back to finding a solution to this problem rather than slagging each other (and AOO) off.
I have used this suite since version 2 on OS X, Linux and Both 32 and 64-bit versions of Windows. I have only ever suffered minor glitches with formatting and some eccentricities with the spell-checker: both of them known and cured at the next minor version update.
This is unusual and sounds very much as if a file format was wrongly applied at the last save. Can we all concentrate on getting these two problems solved: finding some way of recovering the document and tracing down the glitch that caused this.
Paul Simmonds
Sent from my mobile
> On 5 Jan 2014, at 05:23, Gary Frost <gl...@me.com> wrote:
>
> I don't get it either. I've never had any of these problems during years of use.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 10:07 PM, TN Patriot <ir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500
>> "Anthony J. Rudgers" <an...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings All!
>>>
>>> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software
>>> suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or
>>> other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy,
>>> & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or
>>> else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or
>>> spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around
>>> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or
>>> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager &
>>> inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never
>>> seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out
>>> how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has
>>> to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the
>>> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO
>>> product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend
>>> their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending
>>> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it.
>>> OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely
>>> error-free, & much more user friendly.
>>>
>>> Beat wishes,
>>>
>>> Anthony J. Rudgers
>>> Orlando, FL U.S.A.
>>
>> With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not smart enough to
>> use it correctly.
>>
>> In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to have any of the
>> problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot of other people are the same
>> way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst problem, especially when you come on mailing
>> lists with a bunch of moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up.
>>
>> I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just keep laughing at
>> dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own a computer much less the
>> ability to turn one on without breaking it.
>>
>> Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic waters.
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.lawcollective.org/ Learn your rights through cartoons!
>>
>> http://www.roadblock.org/rights/ Know your rights about and at roadblocks!
>>
>> http://fija.org/ Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from the
>> over-reaching: police, justice system and government!
>>
>> Why does the government want to ban semi-auto weapons? Because you won’t get in
>> the box car willingly.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by Gary Frost <gl...@me.com>.
I don't get it either. I've never had any of these problems during years of use.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 4, 2014, at 10:07 PM, TN Patriot <ir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500
> "Anthony J. Rudgers" <an...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Greetings All!
>>
>> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software
>> suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or
>> other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy,
>> & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or
>> else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or
>> spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around
>> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or
>> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager &
>> inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never
>> seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out
>> how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has
>> to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the
>> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO
>> product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend
>> their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending
>> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it.
>> OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely
>> error-free, & much more user friendly.
>>
>> Beat wishes,
>>
>> Anthony J. Rudgers
>> Orlando, FL U.S.A.
>
> With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not smart enough to
> use it correctly.
>
> In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to have any of the
> problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot of other people are the same
> way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst problem, especially when you come on mailing
> lists with a bunch of moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up.
>
> I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just keep laughing at
> dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own a computer much less the
> ability to turn one on without breaking it.
>
> Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic waters.
>
>
> --
> http://www.lawcollective.org/ Learn your rights through cartoons!
>
> http://www.roadblock.org/rights/ Know your rights about and at roadblocks!
>
> http://fija.org/ Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from the
> over-reaching: police, justice system and government!
>
> Why does the government want to ban semi-auto weapons? Because you won’t get in
> the box car willingly.
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
TN Patriot wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500 "Anthony J. Rudgers"
> <an...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> Greetings All!
>>
>> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO
>> software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/
>> a word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets
>> something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix
>> it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a
>> lot of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet
>> the way they want it by trying again & again to get around
>> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't
>> understand or know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have
>> found, is meager & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time &
>> dedicated user, the OO suite never seems to do quite what you'd
>> like it to do & you usually can't figure out how to fix things ON
>> YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the
>> ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the
>> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user,
>> the OO product appears flawed. People who use any software
>> product want to spend their time & creativity on what they are
>> developing, rather than spending time & effort on issues
>> associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it. OO office
>> software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely
>> error-free, & much more user friendly.
>>
>> Beat wishes,
>>
>> Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A.
>>
>
> With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not
> smart enough to use it correctly.
>
> In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to
> have any of the problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot
> of other people are the same way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst
> problem, especially when you come on mailing lists with a bunch of
> moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up.
>
> I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just
> keep laughing at dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own
> a computer much less the ability to turn one on without breaking
> it.
>
> Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic
> waters.
>
>
TN Patriot;
Statements such as the above do nothing to further the cause of
OpenOffice and IMHO add nothing to the discussion of the problem at
hand. I would refer you to the List Conduct Guidelines at
http://openoffice.apache.org/list-conduct.html.
As on that spent most of my working career doing direct support of one
form or another I know first hand that there is a certain amount of
validity to some of Mr. Rudgers statements. We need to listen with
open minds to all members open the OpenOffice community, even those
with whom we may disagree, if we are to advance both the development
of the software and its acceptance in the wider world.
Regards
Keith N. McKenna
Regards
Keith
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by TN Patriot <ir...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 22:59:31 -0500
"Anthony J. Rudgers" <an...@att.net> wrote:
> Greetings All!
>
> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software
> suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or
> other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy,
> & doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or
> else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or
> spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around
> built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or
> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager &
> inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never
> seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out
> how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has
> to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the
> experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO
> product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend
> their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending
> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it.
> OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely
> error-free, & much more user friendly.
>
> Beat wishes,
>
> Anthony J. Rudgers
> Orlando, FL U.S.A.
>
With people like you, your problem with 'software' is you're not smart enough to
use it correctly.
In the minimum of 10 years I've been using OpenOffice, I've yet to have any of the
problems you or the OP have had. Seems an awful lot of other people are the same
way. It seems *YOU* are your own worst problem, especially when you come on mailing
lists with a bunch of moronic FUD and absolutely nothing to back it up.
I'll continue to use AOO, with no problems, on my system and just keep laughing at
dimbulbs like you who have no decent reason to own a computer much less the
ability to turn one on without breaking it.
Now please, go take along walk on a short pier in Antarctic waters.
--
http://www.lawcollective.org/ Learn your rights through cartoons!
http://www.roadblock.org/rights/ Know your rights about and at roadblocks!
http://fija.org/ Learn about Jury Nullification! Take back your rights from the
over-reaching: police, justice system and government!
Why does the government want to ban semi-auto weapons? Because you won’t get in
the box car willingly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by "Anthony J. Rudgers" <an...@att.net>.
Greetings All!
The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO software
suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a word processor or
other office-suite software, suddenly gets something that is really screwy,
& doesn't know what to do to fix it. Much of their production gets lost, or
else, they spend a lot of time attempting to get their WP document or
spreadsheet the way they want it by trying again & again to get around
built-in or default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or
know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager &
inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO suite never
seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you usually can't figure out
how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/ YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has
to have the ability to fix things quickly on their own w/o "going to the
experts" every time a problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO
product appears flawed. People who use any software product want to spend
their time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending
time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to develop it.
OO office software needs much effort to make it more efficient, largely
error-free, & much more user friendly.
Beat wishes,
Anthony J. Rudgers
Orlando, FL U.S.A.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Frost
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 8:26 PM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues at all.
Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to date OS. I do also
create PDFs so that I can work on documents on my iPhone in Pages. Using the
iPhone is usefully for last minute work for me.
I've thought about good version options for other iOS devices such as the
iPad Air which I intend to purchase. I work scrips and other technical
documents so it is essential for me to use best practices to prevent loss of
work.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alan Cliffe <dr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth, I've had
> that happen too once or twice so now I always create a PDF copy of
> everything I do in OO.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: natalie guttridge <na...@hotmail.co.uk>
> To: "users@openoffice.apache.org" <us...@openoffice.apache.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM
> Subject: All essay text turned to hashtags
>
>
> Please help
> My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she
> opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be
> done?
> Regards
> Natalie
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary; reply to commentary responders
Posted by "Anthony J. Rudgers" <an...@att.net>.
Greetings All,
I’ve read w/ interest all the ensuing postings engendered, both by the
original problem of a woman’s daughter’s essay, created using OOo software,
being turned into textural gibberish when an attempt was made to save it as
a document, & my short, general commentary on this problem as being
symptomatic of flaws inherent in the present OOo office suite. First, let
me state that, pointing out that flaws exist in any product, isn’t at all
equivalent to saying that said product is w/o value. Next, let me stand
corrected on my erroneous use of the term “hashtag,” as was pointed out by
an observant member of this community. (Instead of alluding to a text file
purportedly turned into “hashtags,” I should, perhaps, have referred to that
file being turned into a “fondue of un-interpretable symbols.” (FoUIS
?)—among these symbols there being visible many hash marks (#).) Finally,
let me state, as succinctly as I’m able to, what the purpose in of my
previous posting was.
I’ve encountered numerous problems w/ my use of OOo software,
principally the Writer word-processor. I recognize that some of my
difficulties arose from my total unfamiliarly at the outset w/ the OOo
product in question. Being a really “old-timer,” who grew up on technical
instruction manuals & user guides, all of which were available in print
form, I, early in the game, bought ALL the guides to OOo software that were
available on Amazon. I found, however, that I could NOT resolve many of the
problems I encountered w/ OOo by consulting this documentation. Hence my
previous statement asserting that OOo documentation is meager & inadequate.
(I will stand by that!) Furthermore, from my installed OOo office suite, I’ve
never been able to get online help while I’m working, since my installed OOo
software cannot connect to the Internet. (Moreover, for this reason, I
cannot install updates to my OOo software.) Years ago, when I first
installed (via the official OpenOffice web site) the OOo suite, this
Internet connection didn’t work, nor did it work when I reinstalled the OOo
suite on several other occasions, in hopes of correcting this problem. (Now
a functioning Internet connection certainly might be something that could be
fixed, if only I knew enough about OOo to turn this service on. Or it may,
indeed, be indication of a bug in my OOo software AS IT INTERACTS W/ MY
WINDOWS 7 OS on my particular HP laptop. I’ve really no idea, but I’ve more
& more come to believe my “bug hypothesis.”)
Consequently, I turned to two of these OOo email “forums” to see if I
could, perhaps, get some help w/ my particular problems from other, more
experienced OOo users. I watched the traffic on these OOo sites for more
than 2 years w/o posting anything, hoping to learn more about how people
were using the OOo software, how queries for help were addressed by other
members of the community, & how to pose such queries for help myself. I’ve
learned much of interest about OOo during my past silent sojourn in these
email forums, but, unfortunately, not much that I learned helped me become
more proficient in actually using OOo to accomplish my personal projects.
It would be of little purpose for me to give the reasons for this, as I’m
sure it’d only cause more vituperative cries of “Troll!, Troll!” to be sent
in my direction.
So on to my main point. What I did observe from following the
conversations carried on in these email forums, & attempted to comment on in
my previous postings, was that many of the problems OOo software users
reported in the past strongly suggest the presence of flaws in that software
package. I’m a software user, not (at this time in my life) a software
developer, so I certainly can’t pinpoint where these bugs occur within the
extensive OOo code package & how to debug this code. However, ordinary
users of the OOo software, doing ordinary things w/ that software, have been
regularly posting “field reports” of problems that are symptomatic of
software bugs. And these field reports don’t seem to be taken seriously &
tracked down by any but a v. small cadre of OOo proponents. These few do
seem genuinely interested in improving the OOo software, but their number is
too few, & the time they have available is too limited, for addressing all
the OOo software issues that these email forums seem to raise.
Many, other than these few, seem to attribute most, or all, user
problems to either stupidity or ineptitude (or both) on the part of the user
w/ the problem. Software bugs as a cause of user problems never seems to be
a consideration to these individuals. I should point out that this position
is refuted by many of the very postings on this forum. When OOo
transitioned from version 3 to version 4 in the immediate past, their were
many postings from long-time & experienced OOo users complaining of things
like missing, inaccessible, or corrupted files. Or else, reports of
procedures that worked w/ OOo vers. 3 that no longer worked once they
installed vers. 4. That was all due coding problems w/o doubt—these
long-term & experienced users didn’t suddenly become stupid &/or inept.
What should be done & what will be done about bugs in OOo software certainly
isn’t up to me. But what is done, or not done, w/ OOo software will
determine the future prosperity, or the future decline, of the OOo office
suite.
BTW, my use of the “cyber-cliché” “imho” in my postings has been an
attempt at humor rather than of sarcasm. It’d be a shame, indeed, if being
a good-natured guy would serve only to bring the wrath of the present OOo
“community” down on his head.
Best wishes,
Anthony J. Rudgers
Orlando, FL U.S.A.
-----Original Message-----
From: Keith N. McKenna
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2014 6:30 PM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Anthony J. Rudgers wrote:
> Greetings All!
>
> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO
> software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a
> word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets
> something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix
> it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a lot
> of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet the way
> they want it by trying again & again to get around built-in or
> default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or
> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager
> & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO
> suite never seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you
> usually can't figure out how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/
> YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the ability to fix things
> quickly on their own w/o "going to the experts" every time a
> problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO product appears
> flawed. People who use any software product want to spend their
> time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending
> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to
> develop it. OO office software needs much effort to make it more
> efficient, largely error-free, & much more user friendly.
>
> Beat wishes,
>
> Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A.
>
Mr. Rudgers;
Though your criticism bears much truth I feel it over emphasizes
certain aspects. Many of the support questions that are seen here and
on the forums are in the ways that AOO differs from other software of
the same type.
Most of my 20+ years in industry were spent in doing direct support
and I know from experience that many "ordinary users" frequntly do not
even bother to consult the help resources that are available or just
complain that it does not work like xyz did.
This particular problem is one that is very difficult to track down
because it happens so infrequently that it is difficult for QA and
developers to replicate.
You say that documentation is meager and inadequate. I would direct
you to
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters.
Though these are for Version 3.3 much of the information they contain
is relevant to later versions, including version 4.0.1. Also available
is a getting started guide for version 3.4 from
http://www.odfauthors.org/apache-openoffice/english/user-guides/getting-started-3.4/published.
There is an ongoing documentation effort to create up to date
documentation for Version 4 and beyond on the wiki. We are always
looking for volunteers to help with this effort and could use your
knowledge and skills in this effort. More information can be found at
our orientation page at
http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-doc.html.
All software is imperfect and has bugs. The only way any software
product to improve is open and honest dialog between all parties. This
is specially true for Open Source Software. Honest discussion on
venues such as this and clear reports of possible bugs in the projects
Bugzilla tracking system at https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ are ways
that all users can help make this a better product. The QA volunteers
have provided excellent hints for creating good bug reports in
Bugzilla at https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/HowToFileIssue.
Regards
Keith N. McKenna
> -----Original Message----- From: Gary Frost Sent: Saturday, January
> 04, 2014 8:26 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: All
> essay text turned to hashtags
>
> Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues
> at all. Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to
> date OS. I do also create PDFs so that I can work on documents on
> my iPhone in Pages. Using the iPhone is usefully for last minute
> work for me.
>
> I've thought about good version options for other iOS devices such
> as the iPad Air which I intend to purchase. I work scrips and
> other technical documents so it is essential for me to use best
> practices to prevent loss of work.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alan Cliffe
>> <dr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth,
>> I've had that happen too once or twice so now I always create a
>> PDF copy of everything I do in OO.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ From: natalie guttridge
>> <na...@hotmail.co.uk> To:
>> "users@openoffice.apache.org" <us...@openoffice.apache.org> Sent:
>> Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: All essay text turned
>> to hashtags
>>
>>
>> Please help My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved
>> it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned
>> into hashtags...can anything be done? Regards Natalie
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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>
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hash [marks]--commentary
Posted by Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>.
>The present "hashtag" problem ...
hashtag : n
... a word or phrase preceded by a hash mark,
used to denote the topic of a post
(Collins English Dictionary Complete and Unabridged)
Brian Barker
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Re: All essay text turned to hash [marks]--commentary
Posted by 許哲崇 <fi...@gmail.com>.
Good idea. There is a post under every hash mark.
For example, if 'word' becomes '####', maybe it means 'world ocean
reservation declaration'.
But we lost 'word'.
Come on, you never do.
There are tens of pages.
Not as much in your brain.
OK, it is fun.
2014/1/6 Brian Barker <b....@btinternet.com>
>
> The present "hashtag" problem ...
>>
>
> hashtag : n
> ... a word or phrase preceded by a hash mark, used to denote the topic of
> a post
>
> (Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged)
>
> Brian Barker
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: All essay text turned to hashtags--commentary
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Anthony J. Rudgers wrote:
> Greetings All!
>
> The present "hashtag" problem is is symptomatic of the entire OO
> software suite. An ordinary user of OO, doing ordinary things w/ a
> word processor or other office-suite software, suddenly gets
> something that is really screwy, & doesn't know what to do to fix
> it. Much of their production gets lost, or else, they spend a lot
> of time attempting to get their WP document or spreadsheet the way
> they want it by trying again & again to get around built-in or
> default features (or bugs!) of OO that they don't understand or
> know how to modify (& OO documentation, as I have found, is meager
> & inadequate). Unless you're a long-time & dedicated user, the OO
> suite never seems to do quite what you'd like it to do & you
> usually can't figure out how to fix things ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER W/
> YOUR EXISTING SOFTWARE. One has to have the ability to fix things
> quickly on their own w/o "going to the experts" every time a
> problem w/ OO arises! For the casual user, the OO product appears
> flawed. People who use any software product want to spend their
> time & creativity on what they are developing, rather than spending
> time & effort on issues associated w/ the tool they are using to
> develop it. OO office software needs much effort to make it more
> efficient, largely error-free, & much more user friendly.
>
> Beat wishes,
>
> Anthony J. Rudgers Orlando, FL U.S.A.
>
Mr. Rudgers;
Though your criticism bears much truth I feel it over emphasizes
certain aspects. Many of the support questions that are seen here and
on the forums are in the ways that AOO differs from other software of
the same type.
Most of my 20+ years in industry were spent in doing direct support
and I know from experience that many "ordinary users" frequntly do not
even bother to consult the help resources that are available or just
complain that it does not work like xyz did.
This particular problem is one that is very difficult to track down
because it happens so infrequently that it is difficult for QA and
developers to replicate.
You say that documentation is meager and inadequate. I would direct
you to
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/OOo3_User_Guides/OOo3.3_User_Guide_Chapters.
Though these are for Version 3.3 much of the information they contain
is relevant to later versions, including version 4.0.1. Also available
is a getting started guide for version 3.4 from
http://www.odfauthors.org/apache-openoffice/english/user-guides/getting-started-3.4/published.
There is an ongoing documentation effort to create up to date
documentation for Version 4 and beyond on the wiki. We are always
looking for volunteers to help with this effort and could use your
knowledge and skills in this effort. More information can be found at
our orientation page at
http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-doc.html.
All software is imperfect and has bugs. The only way any software
product to improve is open and honest dialog between all parties. This
is specially true for Open Source Software. Honest discussion on
venues such as this and clear reports of possible bugs in the projects
Bugzilla tracking system at https://issues.apache.org/ooo/ are ways
that all users can help make this a better product. The QA volunteers
have provided excellent hints for creating good bug reports in
Bugzilla at https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/HowToFileIssue.
Regards
Keith N. McKenna
> -----Original Message----- From: Gary Frost Sent: Saturday, January
> 04, 2014 8:26 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: All
> essay text turned to hashtags
>
> Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues
> at all. Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to
> date OS. I do also create PDFs so that I can work on documents on
> my iPhone in Pages. Using the iPhone is usefully for last minute
> work for me.
>
> I've thought about good version options for other iOS devices such
> as the iPad Air which I intend to purchase. I work scrips and
> other technical documents so it is essential for me to use best
> practices to prevent loss of work.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alan Cliffe
>> <dr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth,
>> I've had that happen too once or twice so now I always create a
>> PDF copy of everything I do in OO.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________ From: natalie guttridge
>> <na...@hotmail.co.uk> To:
>> "users@openoffice.apache.org" <us...@openoffice.apache.org> Sent:
>> Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM Subject: All essay text turned
>> to hashtags
>>
>>
>> Please help My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved
>> it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned
>> into hashtags...can anything be done? Regards Natalie
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Gary Frost <gl...@me.com>.
Maybe, I'm an anomaly here, but I've never had any of these issues at all. Generally, I work on a MacBook Air with the current up to date OS. I do also create PDFs so that I can work on documents on my iPhone in Pages. Using the iPhone is usefully for last minute work for me.
I've thought about good version options for other iOS devices such as the iPad Air which I intend to purchase. I work scrips and other technical documents so it is essential for me to use best practices to prevent loss of work.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 4, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alan Cliffe <dr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth, I've had that happen too once or twice so now I always create a PDF copy of everything I do in OO.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: natalie guttridge <na...@hotmail.co.uk>
> To: "users@openoffice.apache.org" <us...@openoffice.apache.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM
> Subject: All essay text turned to hashtags
>
>
> Please help
> My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be done?
> Regards
> Natalie
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Alan Cliffe <dr...@sbcglobal.net>.
I don't know if it can be retrieved; for whatever it's worth, I've had that happen too once or twice so now I always create a PDF copy of everything I do in OO.
________________________________
From: natalie guttridge <na...@hotmail.co.uk>
To: "users@openoffice.apache.org" <us...@openoffice.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 8:04 AM
Subject: All essay text turned to hashtags
Please help
My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be done?
Regards
Natalie
Sent from my iPad
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Dave Barton <db...@tasit.net>.
Copy to Natalie - Non-Subscribed Poster
-------- Original Message --------
From: John Meyer <jo...@pueblocomputing.com> To:
users@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2014 07:33:50 -0700
> On 1/4/2014 6:04 AM, natalie guttridge wrote:
>> Please help
>> My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when
>> she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can
>> anything be done?
>> Regards
>> Natalie
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
> What's the extension and file type?
>
> What type of computer did she create it on?
>
> What type of computer did she open it on? Was it the same computer and
> same program?
Natalie, please reply to the users@openoffice.apache.org email address,
not directly to any individual. There many other list subscribers who
may also be able to assist you.
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by John Meyer <jo...@pueblocomputing.com>.
On 1/4/2014 6:04 AM, natalie guttridge wrote:
> Please help
> My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be done?
> Regards
> Natalie
>
> Sent from my iPad
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
What's the extension and file type?
What type of computer did she create it on?
What type of computer did she open it on? Was it the same computer and
same program?
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> Top posting.
> OK, you win. I'm fed up with this kind of discussion, so last post in this
> discussion.
> I won't ask your questions because when we ask even a basic one, very often
> we get no reply (I guess that frustration is for something).
>
Clearly users are mainly interested in getting their document back.
But if your immediately response is "kiss your document good bye" then
you will not hear from them again. If we want to help the project,
then we need to handle users in a certain way. Think of a policeman
interviewing a robbery victim. We need to ask the questions even
though the person is upset. We need to tell them that this
information is important and that the only way we can improve is by
having this info.
> After almost 8 years supporting users in forums, I think that we have a
> reasonable 6th sense to spot the smoking guns in such problems. I'll
> continue to record the cases in the forum. Even if you're the most vocal one
> on the mailing list, I hope that some dev will try to have a look.
>
You forget that I did professional technical support for Lotus years
ago, supporting 1-2-3 and other products. So I am entitled to claim
reasonable sense in this area as well. And what I sense is that over
multiple years what we're doing now has not helped in narrowing down
the problem or getting it fixed. What we're doing now has failed to
resolve the issue. You're welcome to continue in the same way, but
I'm making suggestions for how we can improve, not just repeat the
past. If there is a problem I'd like to see it narrowed down and
fixed. If it is user error then I'd like to establish that firmly so
we can improve documentation to reduce its occurrence. What I don't
want to do is spend another 5 years to turn a list of 150 sparsely
documented examples into a list of 300 sparsely documented examples
and be no better off on resolving this either way. I hope you would
agree that "more of the same" is not going to work here.
> If you think that crashed filed are like UFOs then let users experience
> UFOs.
>
The comparison should be more like this: Determining the existence of
nonexistence of UFO's requires more than just compiling a list of
incidents. Large lists of UFO sightings has proven nothing and will
not prove anything. The sa,e is true of software crashes.
Regards,
-Rob
> Hagar
>
>
> Le 05/01/2014 19:45, Rob Weir a écrit :
>
>
>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 05/01/2014 17:05, Rob Weir a écrit :
>>>
>>>> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
>>>> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
>>>> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
>>>> pattern.
>>>>
>>>> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>>>>
>>>> 2) What OS version?
>>>>
>>>> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>>>>
>>>> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>>>>
>>>> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>>>>
>>>> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
>>>> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
>>>> laptop hibernate?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you at least read the topic and the post with all the cases I've
>>> recorded???
>>> You'll see that most of these information are available. And each linked
>>> topic usually have also these information (with more details of course).
>>> -> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
>>>
>>
>> Well, obviously reports with partial information from 5 years ago are
>> not really useful. As I pointed out, I can show over 300 UFO
>> sightings from just December. So what?
>>
>> I'm suggesting collecting this information systematically, for new
>> reports, in 2014 using AOO 4.0.1. For example, you did not ask all of
>> these questions when you responded to the user on this list just now.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
>>>> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
>>>> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
>>>> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> None of the 150+ cases I've recorded involve USB drives. Of course we
>>> know
>>> that case. That's why I've discarded them systematically.
>>> NB: one more case this very day.
>>>
>>
>> This isn't really true. I did a spot check of the reports and some of
>> them did involve USB drives and for many of them the question was not
>> even asked.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
>>>> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
>>>> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
>>>> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, just read the topic. Most of the files are ODF, some .doc. No
>>> exotic
>>> format like WPD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
>>>> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
>>>> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
>>>> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
>>>> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
>>>> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
>>>> problems in that scenario?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And?
>>> Even if the boot is forced, as I said, it would be understandable to lose
>>> the version that is currently under edition. But it is unacceptable to
>>> lose
>>> the saved file.
>>>
>>
>> And it would be unacceptable to see a UFO. The question is whether
>> any actually have or whether it is user error.
>>
>>> I know that this is a difficult problem but please stop trying to find a
>>> scapegoat.
>>> If nobody wants to investigate, I don't have any problem as long as I
>>> don't
>>> suffer from this issue.
>>> But then, just accept the rants from users who lost important data.
>>> NB: I've switched from MS Word to OOo after I lost data. If I ever face
>>> this
>>> problem, that would be the end of my use of AOO. Users want reliability
>>> first. All the nice features you can put in an application will never
>>> counterbalance any important data loss.
>>>
>>
>> No one is scapegoating. I'm just saying with 100 million users and 5
>> years and not a single reproducible error? Really? Seriously?
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>> Hagar
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Hagar Delest wrote:
> I'm fed up with this kind of discussion, so last post in
> this discussion.
This is not the right attitude, we have a bug that is very hard to
reproduce so all the information we can get is important.
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
The hashes problem happens per file, right? We even had a user who
reported in this thread that all files were displaying hashes, but I
think that the occurrences reported so far are all about a single lost
file (I had a look at the one from today and that is the impression I got).
I did a test following Rory's ideas: I have a virtual machine where I
can run OpenOffice. I opened a document that takes long to load/save,
modified it slighty, gave the "Save" command and, when that was still in
progress, I "destroyed" (equivalent of a forced poweroff, i.e., pulling
power cord) the machine. Upon reboot, I restarted OpenOffice, I was
presented with a recovery screen, recovery was successful, my changes
had been lost but the original document was recovered. So I wasn't able
to reproduce the problem even with this simulation.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Top posting.
OK, you win. I'm fed up with this kind of discussion, so last post in this discussion.
I won't ask your questions because when we ask even a basic one, very often we get no reply (I guess that frustration is for something).
After almost 8 years supporting users in forums, I think that we have a reasonable 6th sense to spot the smoking guns in such problems. I'll continue to record the cases in the forum. Even if you're the most vocal one on the mailing list, I hope that some dev will try to have a look.
If you think that crashed filed are like UFOs then let users experience UFOs.
Hagar
Le 05/01/2014 19:45, Rob Weir a écrit :
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>> Le 05/01/2014 17:05, Rob Weir a écrit :
>>
>>> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
>>> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
>>> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
>>> pattern.
>>>
>>> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>>>
>>> 2) What OS version?
>>>
>>> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>>>
>>> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>>>
>>> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>>>
>>> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
>>> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
>>> laptop hibernate?
>>
>>
>> Have you at least read the topic and the post with all the cases I've
>> recorded???
>> You'll see that most of these information are available. And each linked
>> topic usually have also these information (with more details of course).
>> -> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
>>
>
> Well, obviously reports with partial information from 5 years ago are
> not really useful. As I pointed out, I can show over 300 UFO
> sightings from just December. So what?
>
> I'm suggesting collecting this information systematically, for new
> reports, in 2014 using AOO 4.0.1. For example, you did not ask all of
> these questions when you responded to the user on this list just now.
>
>>
>>
>>> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
>>> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
>>> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
>>> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
>>
>>
>> None of the 150+ cases I've recorded involve USB drives. Of course we know
>> that case. That's why I've discarded them systematically.
>> NB: one more case this very day.
>>
>
> This isn't really true. I did a spot check of the reports and some of
> them did involve USB drives and for many of them the question was not
> even asked.
>
>>
>>
>>> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
>>> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
>>> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
>>> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>>
>>
>> Again, just read the topic. Most of the files are ODF, some .doc. No exotic
>> format like WPD.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
>>> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
>>> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
>>> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
>>> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
>>> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
>>> problems in that scenario?
>>
>>
>> And?
>> Even if the boot is forced, as I said, it would be understandable to lose
>> the version that is currently under edition. But it is unacceptable to lose
>> the saved file.
>>
>
> And it would be unacceptable to see a UFO. The question is whether
> any actually have or whether it is user error.
>
>> I know that this is a difficult problem but please stop trying to find a
>> scapegoat.
>> If nobody wants to investigate, I don't have any problem as long as I don't
>> suffer from this issue.
>> But then, just accept the rants from users who lost important data.
>> NB: I've switched from MS Word to OOo after I lost data. If I ever face this
>> problem, that would be the end of my use of AOO. Users want reliability
>> first. All the nice features you can put in an application will never
>> counterbalance any important data loss.
>>
>
> No one is scapegoating. I'm just saying with 100 million users and 5
> years and not a single reproducible error? Really? Seriously?
>
> -Rob
>
>
>> Hagar
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
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>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Steve Ahlers <sa...@yahoo.com>.
On Jan 5, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>> Le 05/01/2014 17:05, Rob Weir a écrit :
>>
>>> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
>>> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
>>> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
>>> pattern.
>>>
>>> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>>>
>>> 2) What OS version?
2.1) When was the last time you updated your OS?
>>>
>>> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>>>
>>> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>>>
>>> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>>>
>>> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
>>> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
>>> laptop hibernate?
A huge user error with less skilled users is failure to update OS. As I remember from the dark days of using Windoz it was not unusual for there to be a couple of patches every week.
Steve
Sent from my iPad
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:35 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> Le 05/01/2014 17:05, Rob Weir a écrit :
>
>> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
>> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
>> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
>> pattern.
>>
>> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>>
>> 2) What OS version?
>>
>> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>>
>> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>>
>> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>>
>> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
>> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
>> laptop hibernate?
>
>
> Have you at least read the topic and the post with all the cases I've
> recorded???
> You'll see that most of these information are available. And each linked
> topic usually have also these information (with more details of course).
> -> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
>
Well, obviously reports with partial information from 5 years ago are
not really useful. As I pointed out, I can show over 300 UFO
sightings from just December. So what?
I'm suggesting collecting this information systematically, for new
reports, in 2014 using AOO 4.0.1. For example, you did not ask all of
these questions when you responded to the user on this list just now.
>
>
>> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
>> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
>> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
>> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
>
>
> None of the 150+ cases I've recorded involve USB drives. Of course we know
> that case. That's why I've discarded them systematically.
> NB: one more case this very day.
>
This isn't really true. I did a spot check of the reports and some of
them did involve USB drives and for many of them the question was not
even asked.
>
>
>> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
>> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
>> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
>> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>
>
> Again, just read the topic. Most of the files are ODF, some .doc. No exotic
> format like WPD.
>
>
>
>> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
>> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
>> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
>> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
>> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
>> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
>> problems in that scenario?
>
>
> And?
> Even if the boot is forced, as I said, it would be understandable to lose
> the version that is currently under edition. But it is unacceptable to lose
> the saved file.
>
And it would be unacceptable to see a UFO. The question is whether
any actually have or whether it is user error.
> I know that this is a difficult problem but please stop trying to find a
> scapegoat.
> If nobody wants to investigate, I don't have any problem as long as I don't
> suffer from this issue.
> But then, just accept the rants from users who lost important data.
> NB: I've switched from MS Word to OOo after I lost data. If I ever face this
> problem, that would be the end of my use of AOO. Users want reliability
> first. All the nice features you can put in an application will never
> counterbalance any important data loss.
>
No one is scapegoating. I'm just saying with 100 million users and 5
years and not a single reproducible error? Really? Seriously?
-Rob
> Hagar
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le 05/01/2014 17:05, Rob Weir a écrit :
> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
> pattern.
>
> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>
> 2) What OS version?
>
> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>
> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>
> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>
> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
> laptop hibernate?
Have you at least read the topic and the post with all the cases I've recorded???
You'll see that most of these information are available. And each linked topic usually have also these information (with more details of course).
-> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677#p81363
> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
None of the 150+ cases I've recorded involve USB drives. Of course we know that case. That's why I've discarded them systematically.
NB: one more case this very day.
> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
Again, just read the topic. Most of the files are ODF, some .doc. No exotic format like WPD.
> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
> problems in that scenario?
And?
Even if the boot is forced, as I said, it would be understandable to lose the version that is currently under edition. But it is unacceptable to lose the saved file.
I know that this is a difficult problem but please stop trying to find a scapegoat.
If nobody wants to investigate, I don't have any problem as long as I don't suffer from this issue.
But then, just accept the rants from users who lost important data.
NB: I've switched from MS Word to OOo after I lost data. If I ever face this problem, that would be the end of my use of AOO. Users want reliability first. All the nice features you can put in an application will never counterbalance any important data loss.
Hagar
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 12:43 PM, James <jl...@inebraska.com> wrote:
> I have never encountered any such problem with OO. I am running Open Office
> 4.1 under windows 8.1 on a Hewlett Packard HP p2-1334 desk top.
> Jim Lambert
>
Same with me. I've been using OpenOffice exclusively since 2005, on a
daily basis and I've never lost a file. Of course, I have had two
hard drives fail, a USB sticks die, and once had a virus corrupt a
machine. So for me personally, these kinds of problems are more
frequent than issues with the reliability saving in OpenOffice.
Because of that I do regular online backups of my important files.
-Rob
> -----Original Message----- From: Rory O'Farrell
> Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 10:35 AM
> To: users@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
>
>
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 11:05:25 -0500
> Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>
>> wrote:
>> > Sadly, quite nothing to do, see:
>> > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677 where >
>> > you'll
>> > see that I've recorded more than 150 occurrences of this problem.
>>
>>
>> And there were 368 reported UFO sightings in December:
>> http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxe201312.html
>>
>> But I'm not rushing to learn Klingon...
>>
>> If you search Google for phrases like "Word document lost when saving"
>> you'll see 100's of reports of this as well.
>
>
> With respect, we are not concerned about MS Word's reliability. But
> OpenOffice's ought be a matter of concern for us all. We are all on the same
> side here.
>
>>
>> > I've raised this issue on the dev mailing list:
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg15177.html and
>> > interest has been slightly raised (new comments in the bug report) but >
>> > this
>> > is a difficult problem that can't be reproduced, hence very difficult to
>> > spot. Nevertheless, even in case of bug, the save process could be >
>> > improved
>> > IMHO.
>> > Any power shortage?
>> >
>> > Check the temporary folder of the system (see in OOo
>> > Tools>Options>OOo>Paths). If there are folders like sgmlf.tmp with a >
>> > file
>> > having the same name inside, make a copy of that file, rename it to .odt
>> > > and
>> > cross your fingers. If you have not rebooted, you might have those files
>> > still there.
>> >
>>
>> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
>> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
>> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
>> pattern.
>>
>> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>>
>> 2) What OS version?
>
>
> The Version and OS are usually indicated in the footer of the repoorting
> post. Most OS versions are Windows
>>
>>
>> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>>
>> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>
>
> In many cases to the hard disk. USB saves as you say below can unreliable
> and we try to separate them out from spontaneous hashtag events.
>
>>
>> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>>
>> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
>> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
>> laptop hibernate?
>
>
> Hibernation/Suspend of a computer with an open OO file reportedly can cause
> corruption. Some hashtag/damaged archive events seem to be caused by over
> hasty closedown of the computer, such as by snapping laptop lid shut, or
> power off of the desktop before the software/hardware write buffers have
> flushed.
>
>> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
>> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
>> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
>> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
>
>
> We know this and advise not to work direct to a USB stick, also advising
> observance of correct removal protocols. Also (added information)
> anecdotally (also personal experience) USB sticks of earlier manufacture can
> fail (internal chip failure) after a smallish (circa 1000 is suggested in
> some postings) number of read/write cycles. I have no knowledge of more
> recent USB stick reliability.
>
>>
>> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
>> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
>> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
>> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>>
>> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
>> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
>> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
>> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
>> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
>> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
>> problems in that scenario?
>>
>
>
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by James <jl...@inebraska.com>.
I have never encountered any such problem with OO. I am running Open Office
4.1 under windows 8.1 on a Hewlett Packard HP p2-1334 desk top.
Jim Lambert
-----Original Message-----
From: Rory O'Farrell
Sent: Sunday, January 5, 2014 10:35 AM
To: users@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 11:05:25 -0500
Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>
> wrote:
> > Sadly, quite nothing to do, see:
> > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677 where
> > you'll
> > see that I've recorded more than 150 occurrences of this problem.
>
>
> And there were 368 reported UFO sightings in December:
> http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxe201312.html
>
> But I'm not rushing to learn Klingon...
>
> If you search Google for phrases like "Word document lost when saving"
> you'll see 100's of reports of this as well.
With respect, we are not concerned about MS Word's reliability. But
OpenOffice's ought be a matter of concern for us all. We are all on the same
side here.
>
> > I've raised this issue on the dev mailing list:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg15177.html and
> > interest has been slightly raised (new comments in the bug report) but
> > this
> > is a difficult problem that can't be reproduced, hence very difficult to
> > spot. Nevertheless, even in case of bug, the save process could be
> > improved
> > IMHO.
> > Any power shortage?
> >
> > Check the temporary folder of the system (see in OOo
> > Tools>Options>OOo>Paths). If there are folders like sgmlf.tmp with a
> > file
> > having the same name inside, make a copy of that file, rename it to .odt
> > and
> > cross your fingers. If you have not rebooted, you might have those files
> > still there.
> >
>
> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
> pattern.
>
> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>
> 2) What OS version?
The Version and OS are usually indicated in the footer of the repoorting
post. Most OS versions are Windows
>
> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>
> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
In many cases to the hard disk. USB saves as you say below can unreliable
and we try to separate them out from spontaneous hashtag events.
>
> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>
> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
> laptop hibernate?
Hibernation/Suspend of a computer with an open OO file reportedly can cause
corruption. Some hashtag/damaged archive events seem to be caused by over
hasty closedown of the computer, such as by snapping laptop lid shut, or
power off of the desktop before the software/hardware write buffers have
flushed.
> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
We know this and advise not to work direct to a USB stick, also advising
observance of correct removal protocols. Also (added information)
anecdotally (also personal experience) USB sticks of earlier manufacture can
fail (internal chip failure) after a smallish (circa 1000 is suggested in
some postings) number of read/write cycles. I have no knowledge of more
recent USB stick reliability.
>
> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>
> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
> problems in that scenario?
>
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Wed, 8 Jan 2014 09:11:38 -0500
Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> > I've added your suggestion Roband Steve Ahlers to a draft document. I'll wait in case of more input and then we can consider a short questionaire and revise the wording.
> >
>
>
> One further idea on this: I can turn this into the form of a survey
> on http://survey.openoffice.org, using LimeSurvey. If we do that then
> we can point users to that URL (after trying to help them, of course)
> to collect this level of additional detail. If we do this then the
> information is collected all in one place.
>
> -Rob
That's a very good idea, Rob. It simplifies the workload for the active developers/advicates of OpenOffice and builds a database.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> I've added your suggestion Roband Steve Ahlers to a draft document. I'll wait in case of more input and then we can consider a short questionaire and revise the wording.
>
One further idea on this: I can turn this into the form of a survey
on http://survey.openoffice.org, using LimeSurvey. If we do that then
we can point users to that URL (after trying to help them, of course)
to collect this level of additional detail. If we do this then the
information is collected all in one place.
-Rob
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
I've added your suggestion Roband Steve Ahlers to a draft document. I'll wait in case of more input and then we can consider a short questionaire and revise the wording.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> I've clipped the previous messages as this posting doesn't depend on them.
> Rob suggests the following queries be put to Hashtag/file loss posters. I've added some choices to the file save destinations. Are there other questions that should be asked? Once we reach agreement on the questions I'm sure the Forum will use this questionaire to gather information on hashtag/file loss cases.
>
>
> 1) What AOO version is in use?
> 2) What OS version?
> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
> 4) Where was the file being saved? Local Drive? USB stick? Network drive? External drive?
> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
> laptop hibernate?
>
Thanks, maybe the generic "Was there anything unusual/special about
the document that might be relevant?"
Consider one possible failure mode: When a document is saved
OpenOffice needs to iterate over all the styles, content and metadata
in the document and write it out in the correct format, by default
ODF. If there was a a bug in that process that caused a crash, it
could be with a very specific aspect of the document, e.g., only with
documents with more than 256 styles, or only documents with 24 bit PNG
images, or only images with more than 16 fields in a header.
Something specific like that. In this failure mode, if it actually
is occurring, the specific area would need to be rare enough that most
users never see it. It would not be something, for example, that you
would likely not see if you used only the default templates.
So maybe: What is the general history of this document? Was it
create from scratch in this version of OpenOffice? Was it created in
an older version of OpenOffice? Originally imported from a Microsoft
Word document? Was it based on a default template or a custom one
that you created?
Regards,
-Rob
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Steve Ahlers <sa...@yahoo.com>.
See my response to Rob's post.
Steve
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 5, 2014, at 11:15 AM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> I've clipped the previous messages as this posting doesn't depend on them.
> Rob suggests the following queries be put to Hashtag/file loss posters. I've added some choices to the file save destinations. Are there other questions that should be asked? Once we reach agreement on the questions I'm sure the Forum will use this questionaire to gather information on hashtag/file loss cases.
>
>
> 1) What AOO version is in use?
> 2) What OS version?
> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
> 4) Where was the file being saved? Local Drive? USB stick? Network drive? External drive?
> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
> laptop hibernate?
>
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
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>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
I've clipped the previous messages as this posting doesn't depend on them.
Rob suggests the following queries be put to Hashtag/file loss posters. I've added some choices to the file save destinations. Are there other questions that should be asked? Once we reach agreement on the questions I'm sure the Forum will use this questionaire to gather information on hashtag/file loss cases.
1) What AOO version is in use?
2) What OS version?
3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
4) Where was the file being saved? Local Drive? USB stick? Network drive? External drive?
5) Is autosaved enabled?
6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
laptop hibernate?
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 11:35 AM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 11:05:25 -0500
> Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>> > Sadly, quite nothing to do, see:
>> > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677 where you'll
>> > see that I've recorded more than 150 occurrences of this problem.
>>
>>
>> And there were 368 reported UFO sightings in December:
>> http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxe201312.html
>>
>> But I'm not rushing to learn Klingon...
>>
>> If you search Google for phrases like "Word document lost when saving"
>> you'll see 100's of reports of this as well.
>
> With respect, we are not concerned about MS Word's reliability. But OpenOffice's ought be a matter of concern for us all. We are all on the same side here.
>
I think you missed the point. Maybe I was too subtle. I'm not talking
about the quality of MS Office. The point is that hardware and user
error happens to all products and merely stating that there have been
150 reports over a decade where we've had over 100 million users, is
not really telling us anything. It is like the UFO reports. They'll
always be a few, and the more efficient you are about collecting them
the more you will have. But how do you tell a genuine incident from
hardware or user errors?
-Rob
>>
>> > I've raised this issue on the dev mailing list:
>> > http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg15177.html and
>> > interest has been slightly raised (new comments in the bug report) but this
>> > is a difficult problem that can't be reproduced, hence very difficult to
>> > spot. Nevertheless, even in case of bug, the save process could be improved
>> > IMHO.
>> > Any power shortage?
>> >
>> > Check the temporary folder of the system (see in OOo
>> > Tools>Options>OOo>Paths). If there are folders like sgmlf.tmp with a file
>> > having the same name inside, make a copy of that file, rename it to .odt and
>> > cross your fingers. If you have not rebooted, you might have those files
>> > still there.
>> >
>>
>> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
>> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
>> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
>> pattern.
>>
>> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>>
>> 2) What OS version?
>
> The Version and OS are usually indicated in the footer of the repoorting post. Most OS versions are Windows
>>
>> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>>
>> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
>
> In many cases to the hard disk. USB saves as you say below can unreliable and we try to separate them out from spontaneous hashtag events.
>
>>
>> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>>
>> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
>> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
>> laptop hibernate?
>
> Hibernation/Suspend of a computer with an open OO file reportedly can cause corruption. Some hashtag/damaged archive events seem to be caused by over hasty closedown of the computer, such as by snapping laptop lid shut, or power off of the desktop before the software/hardware write buffers have flushed.
>
>> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
>> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
>> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
>> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
>
> We know this and advise not to work direct to a USB stick, also advising observance of correct removal protocols. Also (added information) anecdotally (also personal experience) USB sticks of earlier manufacture can fail (internal chip failure) after a smallish (circa 1000 is suggested in some postings) number of read/write cycles. I have no knowledge of more recent USB stick reliability.
>
>>
>> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
>> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
>> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
>> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>>
>> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
>> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
>> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
>> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
>> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
>> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
>> problems in that scenario?
>>
>
>
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 11:05:25 -0500
Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> > Sadly, quite nothing to do, see:
> > https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677 where you'll
> > see that I've recorded more than 150 occurrences of this problem.
>
>
> And there were 368 reported UFO sightings in December:
> http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxe201312.html
>
> But I'm not rushing to learn Klingon...
>
> If you search Google for phrases like "Word document lost when saving"
> you'll see 100's of reports of this as well.
With respect, we are not concerned about MS Word's reliability. But OpenOffice's ought be a matter of concern for us all. We are all on the same side here.
>
> > I've raised this issue on the dev mailing list:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg15177.html and
> > interest has been slightly raised (new comments in the bug report) but this
> > is a difficult problem that can't be reproduced, hence very difficult to
> > spot. Nevertheless, even in case of bug, the save process could be improved
> > IMHO.
> > Any power shortage?
> >
> > Check the temporary folder of the system (see in OOo
> > Tools>Options>OOo>Paths). If there are folders like sgmlf.tmp with a file
> > having the same name inside, make a copy of that file, rename it to .odt and
> > cross your fingers. If you have not rebooted, you might have those files
> > still there.
> >
>
> It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
> reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
> useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
> pattern.
>
> 1) What AOO version is in use?
>
> 2) What OS version?
The Version and OS are usually indicated in the footer of the repoorting post. Most OS versions are Windows
>
> 3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
>
> 4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
In many cases to the hard disk. USB saves as you say below can unreliable and we try to separate them out from spontaneous hashtag events.
>
> 5) Is autosaved enabled?
>
> 6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
> example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
> laptop hibernate?
Hibernation/Suspend of a computer with an open OO file reportedly can cause corruption. Some hashtag/damaged archive events seem to be caused by over hasty closedown of the computer, such as by snapping laptop lid shut, or power off of the desktop before the software/hardware write buffers have flushed.
> Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
> reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
> stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
> memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
We know this and advise not to work direct to a USB stick, also advising observance of correct removal protocols. Also (added information) anecdotally (also personal experience) USB sticks of earlier manufacture can fail (internal chip failure) after a smallish (circa 1000 is suggested in some postings) number of read/write cycles. I have no knowledge of more recent USB stick reliability.
>
> Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
> a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
> open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
> to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
>
> Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
> versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
> Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
> loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
> and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
> system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
> problems in that scenario?
>
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> Sadly, quite nothing to do, see:
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677 where you'll
> see that I've recorded more than 150 occurrences of this problem.
And there were 368 reported UFO sightings in December:
http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/ndxe201312.html
But I'm not rushing to learn Klingon...
If you search Google for phrases like "Word document lost when saving"
you'll see 100's of reports of this as well.
> I've raised this issue on the dev mailing list:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg15177.html and
> interest has been slightly raised (new comments in the bug report) but this
> is a difficult problem that can't be reproduced, hence very difficult to
> spot. Nevertheless, even in case of bug, the save process could be improved
> IMHO.
> Any power shortage?
>
> Check the temporary folder of the system (see in OOo
> Tools>Options>OOo>Paths). If there are folders like sgmlf.tmp with a file
> having the same name inside, make a copy of that file, rename it to .odt and
> cross your fingers. If you have not rebooted, you might have those files
> still there.
>
It would be great to ask for information like this whenever someone
reports this kind of problem. 150 reports without this detail are
useless. But even 10 reports with this detail might indicate a
pattern.
1) What AOO version is in use?
2) What OS version?
3) What file type (extension) was being saved?
4) Where was the file being saved? USB? Network drive?
5) Is autosaved enabled?
6) When you returned to your computer was it in the same state? For
example, had you lost power? Did the OS force a reboot? Did your
laptop hibernate?
Just anecdotally, and without deeper analysis, I see a number of
reports on OpenOffice and with Microsoft Office, where a USB memory
stick is being used. Savvy users know how to properly remove a
memory stick. But not all users do. This can cause problems.
Another case to watch out for is old Wordperfect files. A user saves
a WPD file, upgrades OOo 3.3.0 to AOO 4.0.1 and now their file won't
open. But this is due to the loss of WPD support, not due to damage
to the file, though the symptoms look the same at first.
Another thing to look for is a forced reboot, the kind that recent
versions of Windows do when installing a critical security patch.
Some antivirus software does this as well. If you have a document
loaded in OpenOffice with unsaved changed, and have autosave enabled,
and leave your machine on for a week, with OpenOffice running, and a
system restart is forced, what will happen? Is there a correlation to
problems in that scenario?
Regards,
-Rob
> As a courtesy I have sent a copy of this reply to you as well as to the
> mailing list. Do Not reply to me personally but just to the list at
> <us...@openoffice.apache.org> - replies to my personal email address will be
> ignored.
>
> Since you are not subscribed to this list you may not see all the replies to
> your query.
> To subscribe Apache OpenOffice mailing lists go to
> http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html
> NB: this is more a message for the users mailing list than for the devs.
>
> For user support you can also use The OpenOffice.org Community Forum
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/
>
> Regards,
> Hagar
>
> Le 04/01/2014 14:04, natalie guttridge a écrit :
>
>
>> Please help
>> My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she
>> opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be
>> done?
>> Regards
>> Natalie
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
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Re: All essay text turned to hashtags
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Sadly, quite nothing to do, see: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=17677 where you'll see that I've recorded more than 150 occurrences of this problem.
I've raised this issue on the dev mailing list: http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg15177.html and interest has been slightly raised (new comments in the bug report) but this is a difficult problem that can't be reproduced, hence very difficult to spot. Nevertheless, even in case of bug, the save process could be improved IMHO.
Any power shortage?
Check the temporary folder of the system (see in OOo Tools>Options>OOo>Paths). If there are folders like sgmlf.tmp with a file having the same name inside, make a copy of that file, rename it to .odt and cross your fingers. If you have not rebooted, you might have those files still there.
As a courtesy I have sent a copy of this reply to you as well as to the mailing list. Do Not reply to me personally but just to the list at <us...@openoffice.apache.org> - replies to my personal email address will be ignored.
Since you are not subscribed to this list you may not see all the replies to your query.
To subscribe Apache OpenOffice mailing lists go to
http://openoffice.apache.org/mailing-lists.html
NB: this is more a message for the users mailing list than for the devs.
For user support you can also use The OpenOffice.org Community Forum
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/
Regards,
Hagar
Le 04/01/2014 14:04, natalie guttridge a écrit :
> Please help
> My daughter has written a 2000 word essay. She saved it and then when she opened it again the whole text has turned into hashtags...can anything be done?
> Regards
> Natalie
>
> Sent from my iPad
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