[PROPOSAL] As it ever were

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Re: Proposal to grandfather Active Committers to Jakarta subprojects as
PMC Members.

As it stands, most Jakarta committers have assumed that they already
have the rights, privileges, and responsibilities granted PMC members.
(Mainly because it was written that way in the Jakarta bylaws).

When all these committers were elected, it was with the understanding
they had binding votes and oversight responsibility, as stated by the
original Jakarta bylaws. It could be said that we have been electing PMC
members, rather than only committers, all along, without realizing it.

Following our original bylaws and practices, there is no such thing as a
committer without the rights and responsibilities of PMC membership.
Accordingly, a stipulation of becoming (or remaining) a committer to a
Jakarta subproject can said to be PMC membership, as it is described by
the ASF bylaws.

To complete the process we've already begun, I suggest a [VOTE] be
brought on each *-dev@jakarta.apache.org list to nominate the list of
its active committers to the PMC. This vote will also serve as notice to
committers who wish to opt-out.

To bootstrap the process, the current moderator of each DEV list can be
asked to bring the vote and report the result. If necessary, a new
moderator can be installed by the Chair.

The moderator of each dev list will also act as the "PMC steward" for
the subproject. The list moderator is suggested since that individual is
already suppose to be monitoring the list where this activity occurs.
The steward will have the responsibility of immediately
reporting any new committers/PMC members elected to a subproject, so
that they can be affirmed by the chair and notice given the board.

All PMC members (which is to say all active committers to jakarta-* CVS
repositories) will be subscribed to the PMC list, which will be a
required list for PMC membership, like committers@apache.org.

The PMC business for each subproject will continue to take place on its
own dev list. The steward for each project will report to the pmc@j list
the status of his or her subproject, covering such points as:

----

* What code releases have been made?

* Legal issues:

* Cross-project issues:

* Any problems with committers, members, etc?

* Plans and expectations for the next period?

----

The chair can then summarize these reports for presentation to the board.

Effectively, each dev list becomes a sub-committee of the PMC. (Divide
and conquer.) The list moderator/steward becomes the subcommittee's
secretary, with the additional responsibility of summarizing the result
of our ongoing meetings.

As appropriate, the steward or any PMC member can bring up oversight
issues to the PMC list. Routine matters, such as releases, can be
approved by the PMC members who are committers to a given subproject. So
long as the usual 3+ quorum is met, there would be no reason to bring
routine votes before the j@pmc list. Of course, the result would be
tabulated on the steward's report, which *is* published to the j@pmc list.

-Ted.

Pro-forma [VOTE]

It has come to our attention that the Committers to a Jakarta subproject
must also be members of the Jakarta Project Management Committee to have
binding votes. To complete the legal process, the current PMC is asking
each subproject to nominate it's active committers to the PMC.

Since we have never supported the idea of non-voting committers at
Jakarta, and only PMC members have binding votes, if a committer is
unwilling to serve on the Jakarta PMC, we will be unable to continue to
extend write access to any jakarta-* CVS to that individual.

Each PMC member will also be subscribed to the Jakarta PMC list.
*However, all subproject business can continue to occur on this DEV list
as always!* In the future, we anticipate that the PMC list will be very
low-volume. (Really, we do!)

The only change is that the owner of the DEV list must also serve as the
PMC steward for the subproject. The steward must submit monthly status
reports for the project and immediately report any new Committers to the
PMC list.

But, other than that, it will be business as usual.

Accordingly, we ask that the Committers to this subproject nominate the
following individuals to the Jakarta PMC. Please check all that apply.

[ ] $committer

Any committer who wishes to opt-out may notify the Jakarta chair
(rubys@apache.org). If you opt-out, regardless of the vote, you will not
be subscribed to the PMC list, and your write access to jakarta CVS
repositories will be removed. (Sorry, but it's part of the package now.)

###




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Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were

[Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>]

+1 on almost everything

I don't like the "PMC steward" thing - except for bootstraping the
process. It also violates the rule that you can't volunteer other people:-)
Also the "delegation" is not allowed by the board AFAIK, and I don't
think it is a good idea to create another layer ( steward/moderator ).

In any case - let's do one thing at a time and have a [VOTE] thread
for bootstraping - and after the new members are added we can move to
another step. This also has the benefit that all comitters will have
a binding vote for the next steps.
I would also propose that the vote for the chair and any reorganization 
be held after extending the PMC.


Costin


Ted Husted wrote:
> Re: Proposal to grandfather Active Committers to Jakarta subprojects as
> PMC Members.
> 
> As it stands, most Jakarta committers have assumed that they already
> have the rights, privileges, and responsibilities granted PMC members.
> (Mainly because it was written that way in the Jakarta bylaws).
> 
> When all these committers were elected, it was with the understanding
> they had binding votes and oversight responsibility, as stated by the
> original Jakarta bylaws. It could be said that we have been electing PMC
> members, rather than only committers, all along, without realizing it.
> 
> Following our original bylaws and practices, there is no such thing as a
> committer without the rights and responsibilities of PMC membership.
> Accordingly, a stipulation of becoming (or remaining) a committer to a
> Jakarta subproject can said to be PMC membership, as it is described by
> the ASF bylaws.
> 
> To complete the process we've already begun, I suggest a [VOTE] be
> brought on each *-dev@jakarta.apache.org list to nominate the list of
> its active committers to the PMC. This vote will also serve as notice to
> committers who wish to opt-out.
> 
> To bootstrap the process, the current moderator of each DEV list can be
> asked to bring the vote and report the result. If necessary, a new
> moderator can be installed by the Chair.
> 
> The moderator of each dev list will also act as the "PMC steward" for
> the subproject. The list moderator is suggested since that individual is
> already suppose to be monitoring the list where this activity occurs.
> The steward will have the responsibility of immediately
> reporting any new committers/PMC members elected to a subproject, so
> that they can be affirmed by the chair and notice given the board.
> 
> All PMC members (which is to say all active committers to jakarta-* CVS
> repositories) will be subscribed to the PMC list, which will be a
> required list for PMC membership, like committers@apache.org.
> 
> The PMC business for each subproject will continue to take place on its
> own dev list. The steward for each project will report to the pmc@j list
> the status of his or her subproject, covering such points as:
> 
> ----
> 
> * What code releases have been made?
> 
> * Legal issues:
> 
> * Cross-project issues:
> 
> * Any problems with committers, members, etc?
> 
> * Plans and expectations for the next period?
> 
> ----
> 
> The chair can then summarize these reports for presentation to the board.
> 
> Effectively, each dev list becomes a sub-committee of the PMC. (Divide
> and conquer.) The list moderator/steward becomes the subcommittee's
> secretary, with the additional responsibility of summarizing the result
> of our ongoing meetings.
> 
> As appropriate, the steward or any PMC member can bring up oversight
> issues to the PMC list. Routine matters, such as releases, can be
> approved by the PMC members who are committers to a given subproject. So
> long as the usual 3+ quorum is met, there would be no reason to bring
> routine votes before the j@pmc list. Of course, the result would be
> tabulated on the steward's report, which *is* published to the j@pmc list.
> 
> -Ted.
> 
> Pro-forma [VOTE]
> 
> It has come to our attention that the Committers to a Jakarta subproject
> must also be members of the Jakarta Project Management Committee to have
> binding votes. To complete the legal process, the current PMC is asking
> each subproject to nominate it's active committers to the PMC.
> 
> Since we have never supported the idea of non-voting committers at
> Jakarta, and only PMC members have binding votes, if a committer is
> unwilling to serve on the Jakarta PMC, we will be unable to continue to
> extend write access to any jakarta-* CVS to that individual.
> 
> Each PMC member will also be subscribed to the Jakarta PMC list.
> *However, all subproject business can continue to occur on this DEV list
> as always!* In the future, we anticipate that the PMC list will be very
> low-volume. (Really, we do!)
> 
> The only change is that the owner of the DEV list must also serve as the
> PMC steward for the subproject. The steward must submit monthly status
> reports for the project and immediately report any new Committers to the
> PMC list.
> 
> But, other than that, it will be business as usual.
> 
> Accordingly, we ask that the Committers to this subproject nominate the
> following individuals to the Jakarta PMC. Please check all that apply.
> 
> [ ] $committer
> 
> Any committer who wishes to opt-out may notify the Jakarta chair
> (rubys@apache.org). If you opt-out, regardless of the vote, you will not
> be subscribed to the PMC list, and your write access to jakarta CVS
> repositories will be removed. (Sorry, but it's part of the package now.)
> 
> ###



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Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were

["Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>]

I don't think that crossposting would be good....  keep it here


On Dec 22, 2003, at 4:52 PM, Tetsuya Kitahata wrote:

>
> Hello, folks.
>
> I am a moderator of three -dev lists in jakarta.
> What should I do next? Forwardin' this Pro-forma to
> each -dev lists?
>
> T.I.A.
>
> -- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)
>
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:07:26 -0500
> (Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were)
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>> This is what I proposed some weeks ago.   I think you would serve the
>> community well if you also posted a summary of pros and cons that we
>> had discussed.
>>
>> On Dec 21, 2003, at 6:14 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
>>
>>> Re: Proposal to grandfather Active Committers to Jakarta subprojects 
>>> as
>>> PMC Members.
>>>
>>> As it stands, most Jakarta committers have assumed that they already
>>> have the rights, privileges, and responsibilities granted PMC 
>>> members.
>>> (Mainly because it was written that way in the Jakarta bylaws).
>>>
>>> When all these committers were elected, it was with the understanding
>>> they had binding votes and oversight responsibility, as stated by the
>>> original Jakarta bylaws. It could be said that we have been electing
>>> PMC
>>> members, rather than only committers, all along, without realizing 
>>> it.
>>>
>>> Following our original bylaws and practices, there is no such thing 
>>> as
>>> a
>>> committer without the rights and responsibilities of PMC membership.
>>> Accordingly, a stipulation of becoming (or remaining) a committer to 
>>> a
>>> Jakarta subproject can said to be PMC membership, as it is described 
>>> by
>>> the ASF bylaws.
>>>
>>> To complete the process we've already begun, I suggest a [VOTE] be
>>> brought on each *-dev@jakarta.apache.org list to nominate the list of
>>> its active committers to the PMC. This vote will also serve as notice
>>> to
>>> committers who wish to opt-out.
>>>
>>> To bootstrap the process, the current moderator of each DEV list can 
>>> be
>>> asked to bring the vote and report the result. If necessary, a new
>>> moderator can be installed by the Chair.
>>>
>>> The moderator of each dev list will also act as the "PMC steward" for
>>> the subproject. The list moderator is suggested since that individual
>>> is
>>> already suppose to be monitoring the list where this activity occurs.
>>> The steward will have the responsibility of immediately
>>> reporting any new committers/PMC members elected to a subproject, so
>>> that they can be affirmed by the chair and notice given the board.
>>>
>>> All PMC members (which is to say all active committers to jakarta-* 
>>> CVS
>>> repositories) will be subscribed to the PMC list, which will be a
>>> required list for PMC membership, like committers@apache.org.
>>>
>>> The PMC business for each subproject will continue to take place on 
>>> its
>>> own dev list. The steward for each project will report to the pmc@j
>>> list
>>> the status of his or her subproject, covering such points as:
>>>
>>> ----
>>>
>>> * What code releases have been made?
>>>
>>> * Legal issues:
>>>
>>> * Cross-project issues:
>>>
>>> * Any problems with committers, members, etc?
>>>
>>> * Plans and expectations for the next period?
>>>
>>> ----
>>>
>>> The chair can then summarize these reports for presentation to the
>>> board.
>>>
>>> Effectively, each dev list becomes a sub-committee of the PMC. 
>>> (Divide
>>> and conquer.) The list moderator/steward becomes the subcommittee's
>>> secretary, with the additional responsibility of summarizing the 
>>> result
>>> of our ongoing meetings.
>>>
>>> As appropriate, the steward or any PMC member can bring up oversight
>>> issues to the PMC list. Routine matters, such as releases, can be
>>> approved by the PMC members who are committers to a given subproject.
>>> So
>>> long as the usual 3+ quorum is met, there would be no reason to bring
>>> routine votes before the j@pmc list. Of course, the result would be
>>> tabulated on the steward's report, which *is* published to the j@pmc
>>> list.
>>>
>>> -Ted.
>>>
>>> Pro-forma [VOTE]
>>>
>>> It has come to our attention that the Committers to a Jakarta
>>> subproject
>>> must also be members of the Jakarta Project Management Committee to
>>> have
>>> binding votes. To complete the legal process, the current PMC is 
>>> asking
>>> each subproject to nominate it's active committers to the PMC.
>>>
>>> Since we have never supported the idea of non-voting committers at
>>> Jakarta, and only PMC members have binding votes, if a committer is
>>> unwilling to serve on the Jakarta PMC, we will be unable to continue 
>>> to
>>> extend write access to any jakarta-* CVS to that individual.
>>>
>>> Each PMC member will also be subscribed to the Jakarta PMC list.
>>> *However, all subproject business can continue to occur on this DEV
>>> list
>>> as always!* In the future, we anticipate that the PMC list will be 
>>> very
>>> low-volume. (Really, we do!)
>>>
>>> The only change is that the owner of the DEV list must also serve as
>>> the
>>> PMC steward for the subproject. The steward must submit monthly 
>>> status
>>> reports for the project and immediately report any new Committers to
>>> the
>>> PMC list.
>>>
>>> But, other than that, it will be business as usual.
>>>
>>> Accordingly, we ask that the Committers to this subproject nominate 
>>> the
>>> following individuals to the Jakarta PMC. Please check all that 
>>> apply.
>>>
>>> [ ] $committer
>>>
>>> Any committer who wishes to opt-out may notify the Jakarta chair
>>> (rubys@apache.org). If you opt-out, regardless of the vote, you will
>>> not
>>> be subscribed to the PMC list, and your write access to jakarta CVS
>>> repositories will be removed. (Sorry, but it's part of the package
>>> now.)
>>>
>>> ###
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tetsuya Kitahata --  Terra-International, Inc.
> E-mail: tetsuya@apache.org  http://www.terra-intl.com/
> Apache Software Foundation Committer:  http://www.apache.org/~tetsuya/
> XML Consortium Member: http://www.xmlconsortium.org/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com


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Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were

[Tetsuya Kitahata <te...@apache.org>]

Hello, folks.

I am a moderator of three -dev lists in jakarta.
What should I do next? Forwardin' this Pro-forma to
each -dev lists?

T.I.A.

-- Tetsuya. (tetsuya@apache.org)

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:07:26 -0500
(Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were)
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:

> This is what I proposed some weeks ago.   I think you would serve the 
> community well if you also posted a summary of pros and cons that we 
> had discussed.
> 
> On Dec 21, 2003, at 6:14 PM, Ted Husted wrote:
> 
> > Re: Proposal to grandfather Active Committers to Jakarta subprojects as
> > PMC Members.
> >
> > As it stands, most Jakarta committers have assumed that they already
> > have the rights, privileges, and responsibilities granted PMC members.
> > (Mainly because it was written that way in the Jakarta bylaws).
> >
> > When all these committers were elected, it was with the understanding
> > they had binding votes and oversight responsibility, as stated by the
> > original Jakarta bylaws. It could be said that we have been electing 
> > PMC
> > members, rather than only committers, all along, without realizing it.
> >
> > Following our original bylaws and practices, there is no such thing as 
> > a
> > committer without the rights and responsibilities of PMC membership.
> > Accordingly, a stipulation of becoming (or remaining) a committer to a
> > Jakarta subproject can said to be PMC membership, as it is described by
> > the ASF bylaws.
> >
> > To complete the process we've already begun, I suggest a [VOTE] be
> > brought on each *-dev@jakarta.apache.org list to nominate the list of
> > its active committers to the PMC. This vote will also serve as notice 
> > to
> > committers who wish to opt-out.
> >
> > To bootstrap the process, the current moderator of each DEV list can be
> > asked to bring the vote and report the result. If necessary, a new
> > moderator can be installed by the Chair.
> >
> > The moderator of each dev list will also act as the "PMC steward" for
> > the subproject. The list moderator is suggested since that individual 
> > is
> > already suppose to be monitoring the list where this activity occurs.
> > The steward will have the responsibility of immediately
> > reporting any new committers/PMC members elected to a subproject, so
> > that they can be affirmed by the chair and notice given the board.
> >
> > All PMC members (which is to say all active committers to jakarta-* CVS
> > repositories) will be subscribed to the PMC list, which will be a
> > required list for PMC membership, like committers@apache.org.
> >
> > The PMC business for each subproject will continue to take place on its
> > own dev list. The steward for each project will report to the pmc@j 
> > list
> > the status of his or her subproject, covering such points as:
> >
> > ----
> >
> > * What code releases have been made?
> >
> > * Legal issues:
> >
> > * Cross-project issues:
> >
> > * Any problems with committers, members, etc?
> >
> > * Plans and expectations for the next period?
> >
> > ----
> >
> > The chair can then summarize these reports for presentation to the 
> > board.
> >
> > Effectively, each dev list becomes a sub-committee of the PMC. (Divide
> > and conquer.) The list moderator/steward becomes the subcommittee's
> > secretary, with the additional responsibility of summarizing the result
> > of our ongoing meetings.
> >
> > As appropriate, the steward or any PMC member can bring up oversight
> > issues to the PMC list. Routine matters, such as releases, can be
> > approved by the PMC members who are committers to a given subproject. 
> > So
> > long as the usual 3+ quorum is met, there would be no reason to bring
> > routine votes before the j@pmc list. Of course, the result would be
> > tabulated on the steward's report, which *is* published to the j@pmc 
> > list.
> >
> > -Ted.
> >
> > Pro-forma [VOTE]
> >
> > It has come to our attention that the Committers to a Jakarta 
> > subproject
> > must also be members of the Jakarta Project Management Committee to 
> > have
> > binding votes. To complete the legal process, the current PMC is asking
> > each subproject to nominate it's active committers to the PMC.
> >
> > Since we have never supported the idea of non-voting committers at
> > Jakarta, and only PMC members have binding votes, if a committer is
> > unwilling to serve on the Jakarta PMC, we will be unable to continue to
> > extend write access to any jakarta-* CVS to that individual.
> >
> > Each PMC member will also be subscribed to the Jakarta PMC list.
> > *However, all subproject business can continue to occur on this DEV 
> > list
> > as always!* In the future, we anticipate that the PMC list will be very
> > low-volume. (Really, we do!)
> >
> > The only change is that the owner of the DEV list must also serve as 
> > the
> > PMC steward for the subproject. The steward must submit monthly status
> > reports for the project and immediately report any new Committers to 
> > the
> > PMC list.
> >
> > But, other than that, it will be business as usual.
> >
> > Accordingly, we ask that the Committers to this subproject nominate the
> > following individuals to the Jakarta PMC. Please check all that apply.
> >
> > [ ] $committer
> >
> > Any committer who wishes to opt-out may notify the Jakarta chair
> > (rubys@apache.org). If you opt-out, regardless of the vote, you will 
> > not
> > be subscribed to the PMC list, and your write access to jakarta CVS
> > repositories will be removed. (Sorry, but it's part of the package 
> > now.)
> >
> > ###

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Tetsuya Kitahata --  Terra-International, Inc.
E-mail: tetsuya@apache.org  http://www.terra-intl.com/
Apache Software Foundation Committer:  http://www.apache.org/~tetsuya/
XML Consortium Member: http://www.xmlconsortium.org/


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Re: [PROPOSAL] As it ever were

["Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>]

This is what I proposed some weeks ago.   I think you would serve the 
community well if you also posted a summary of pros and cons that we 
had discussed.

On Dec 21, 2003, at 6:14 PM, Ted Husted wrote:

> Re: Proposal to grandfather Active Committers to Jakarta subprojects as
> PMC Members.
>
> As it stands, most Jakarta committers have assumed that they already
> have the rights, privileges, and responsibilities granted PMC members.
> (Mainly because it was written that way in the Jakarta bylaws).
>
> When all these committers were elected, it was with the understanding
> they had binding votes and oversight responsibility, as stated by the
> original Jakarta bylaws. It could be said that we have been electing 
> PMC
> members, rather than only committers, all along, without realizing it.
>
> Following our original bylaws and practices, there is no such thing as 
> a
> committer without the rights and responsibilities of PMC membership.
> Accordingly, a stipulation of becoming (or remaining) a committer to a
> Jakarta subproject can said to be PMC membership, as it is described by
> the ASF bylaws.
>
> To complete the process we've already begun, I suggest a [VOTE] be
> brought on each *-dev@jakarta.apache.org list to nominate the list of
> its active committers to the PMC. This vote will also serve as notice 
> to
> committers who wish to opt-out.
>
> To bootstrap the process, the current moderator of each DEV list can be
> asked to bring the vote and report the result. If necessary, a new
> moderator can be installed by the Chair.
>
> The moderator of each dev list will also act as the "PMC steward" for
> the subproject. The list moderator is suggested since that individual 
> is
> already suppose to be monitoring the list where this activity occurs.
> The steward will have the responsibility of immediately
> reporting any new committers/PMC members elected to a subproject, so
> that they can be affirmed by the chair and notice given the board.
>
> All PMC members (which is to say all active committers to jakarta-* CVS
> repositories) will be subscribed to the PMC list, which will be a
> required list for PMC membership, like committers@apache.org.
>
> The PMC business for each subproject will continue to take place on its
> own dev list. The steward for each project will report to the pmc@j 
> list
> the status of his or her subproject, covering such points as:
>
> ----
>
> * What code releases have been made?
>
> * Legal issues:
>
> * Cross-project issues:
>
> * Any problems with committers, members, etc?
>
> * Plans and expectations for the next period?
>
> ----
>
> The chair can then summarize these reports for presentation to the 
> board.
>
> Effectively, each dev list becomes a sub-committee of the PMC. (Divide
> and conquer.) The list moderator/steward becomes the subcommittee's
> secretary, with the additional responsibility of summarizing the result
> of our ongoing meetings.
>
> As appropriate, the steward or any PMC member can bring up oversight
> issues to the PMC list. Routine matters, such as releases, can be
> approved by the PMC members who are committers to a given subproject. 
> So
> long as the usual 3+ quorum is met, there would be no reason to bring
> routine votes before the j@pmc list. Of course, the result would be
> tabulated on the steward's report, which *is* published to the j@pmc 
> list.
>
> -Ted.
>
> Pro-forma [VOTE]
>
> It has come to our attention that the Committers to a Jakarta 
> subproject
> must also be members of the Jakarta Project Management Committee to 
> have
> binding votes. To complete the legal process, the current PMC is asking
> each subproject to nominate it's active committers to the PMC.
>
> Since we have never supported the idea of non-voting committers at
> Jakarta, and only PMC members have binding votes, if a committer is
> unwilling to serve on the Jakarta PMC, we will be unable to continue to
> extend write access to any jakarta-* CVS to that individual.
>
> Each PMC member will also be subscribed to the Jakarta PMC list.
> *However, all subproject business can continue to occur on this DEV 
> list
> as always!* In the future, we anticipate that the PMC list will be very
> low-volume. (Really, we do!)
>
> The only change is that the owner of the DEV list must also serve as 
> the
> PMC steward for the subproject. The steward must submit monthly status
> reports for the project and immediately report any new Committers to 
> the
> PMC list.
>
> But, other than that, it will be business as usual.
>
> Accordingly, we ask that the Committers to this subproject nominate the
> following individuals to the Jakarta PMC. Please check all that apply.
>
> [ ] $committer
>
> Any committer who wishes to opt-out may notify the Jakarta chair
> (rubys@apache.org). If you opt-out, regardless of the vote, you will 
> not
> be subscribed to the PMC list, and your write access to jakarta CVS
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-- 
Geir Magnusson Jr                                   203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com


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