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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com> on 2012/11/14 23:06:50 UTC
[FALCON] It starts with an idea
Hey,
I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a
lot of my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get
the community involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
One thing I want to note;
At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of
life.
That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy
and invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I
realized what that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a
goal. That goal is realized by the fact I program Java android and do
extensive UI stuff with music applications I have coming up in the
next 2 years using a Java C++ toolkit I have been working on the last
10 months.
What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and
am going to try.
Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
diamond in the haystack we have.
Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
Peace,
Mike
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
"At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
Really, I don't ...."
"What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup. Man
I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am going
to try."
Now that's what I'm talking about, Michael, I could kiss you. It's a
brilliant idea.
On 14 Nov 2012 22:07, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
> Hey,
>
> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a lot of
> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the community
> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
>
> One thing I want to note;
>
> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of life.
>
> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy and
> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized what
> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is
> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff with
> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java C++
> toolkit I have been working on the last 10 months.
>
> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup. Man
> I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am going
> to try.
>
> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
> diamond in the haystack we have.
>
> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
>
> Peace,
> Mike
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Nicholas Kwiatkowski <ni...@spoon.as>.
That is the current definition of what it is. The Apache Flex SDK is a
framework written in AS3. Where the code ends up I don't think is
something that really concerns me (as long as the targets I need I can
still get to). Really, this is no different than taking this compiled SWF
data and distributing it with AIR (which is the most popular method right
now)... except we would skip the SWF output part and deploy right to the
device.
I say go for it. If you have the passion, go ahead. I doubt any of the
other committers would stop you (rather I'm sure they will help you along).
-Nick
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 5:07 AM, Carlos Rovira <
carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> Just only a thought... Apache Flex definition is "Apache Flex® is a highly
> productive, open source application framework for building and maintaining
> expressive web applications that deploy consistently on all major browsers,
> desktops and devices (including smartphones, tablets and tv)"
>
> So while the Mike's android idea is interesting does not seems to fit the
> goal of this project. Or I missing something?. I think that the effort is
> android-only, so not cross-platform.
>
> My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to be part
> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have sense
> in its own.
>
> I think that if we does not focus in a set of targets as a group with a
> shared clear idea in mind that make this project evolve in the way people
> expect, this could make users abandon this project as the time pass in
> favor of other technologies/frameworks and make Flex obsolete.
>
> For HTML5 and JS my feeling is that the hype should start to fall since the
> performance is very poor compared to native development or opengl based
> technologies (like stage3d), -my think is if a genius like Grant Skinner
> could not bring better performance with easelJS no body can-. I don't like
> to continue attached to Flash VM since the press is very bad and
> Adobe/Google is finishing to kill a fantastic product due to decisions made
> with Chrome Pepper API. But nowadays I don't see other option since
> browsers continue to promote JS virtual machines without making it go to
> the same level Flash has today...what is inaceptable as a replacement.
>
>
>
>
> 2012/11/15 aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>
>
> > "Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> > never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it.
> ;-)"
> >
> > Do I hear my voice echo? Dude, I really need to know you. ;-)
> > On Nov 15, 2012 12:40 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Well I can guarantee my development is strictly native Android for the
> > > next couple years at least hopefully a lot longer.
> > >
> > > I could see myself contributing a huge amount of my own resources if I
> > > somehow tied that into my Android endeavors. Creating an abstraction of
> > > their UI stuff would be really fun and could turn into something I
> hadn't
> > > even thought of.
> > >
> > > Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> > > never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it.
> > ;-)
> > >
> > > When I write tools I always aim for an abstract structure, dealing with
> > > MXML we already have it. So if this falls under your HTML5/Web 42 cross
> > > compilation, think tank, cloud computing blah blah blah, then great! If
> > > not, it does for me. :) (general statement, not aimed at you aYo)
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > > Quoting aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>:
> > >
> > > a lot of my current work is now AIR and native Android based. Coming
> > from
> > >> a
> > >> flash flex background, I found droid development a lot easier because
> > of
> > >> its similarity to flex development. Michael has a bijou of an idea
> here.
> > >> On 14 Nov 2012 23:34, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their
> layout
> > >>> designer etc.
> > >>>
> > >>> Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I
> can
> > >>> certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having a
> > >>> compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that
> > their
> > >>> XML could not match.
> > >>>
> > >>> Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
> > >>> straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try
> it.
> > >>>
> > >>> One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work
> > for a
> > >>> corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling something
> I
> > >>> see
> > >>> that could help "something", maybe myself as centered as that sounds.
> > >>>
> > >>> Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's
> > >>> marketing
> > >>> schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market it as
> such
> > >>> with
> > >>> huge holes in between.
> > >>>
> > >>> Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community
> realize
> > it
> > >>> didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I
> want
> > >>> to
> > >>> start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have developed
> > >>> enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife until you
> have
> > >>> invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once you have all
> the
> > >>> tools you can then put them together.
> > >>>
> > >>> As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
> > >>> Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if
> momentum
> > >>> goes
> > >>> in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't
> canned
> > >>> into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mike
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Quoting Carlos Rovira <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com****>:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Michael,
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout
> for
> > >>>> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
> > >>>> development but this does not exit yet?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it
> > would
> > >>>> be
> > >>>> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think
> > >>>> it's
> > >>>> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins,
> skinparts,
> > >>>> xml
> > >>>> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is
> as
> > >>>> good
> > >>>> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking
> > into
> > >>>> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools
> > work
> > >>>> like a charm in java.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Interesting idea!
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>>> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.****com<
> > >>>>> apache@teotigraphix.com>
> > >>>>> ]
> > >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
> > >>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >>>>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hey,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
> > >>>>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might
> have
> > >>>>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating
> a
> > >>>>> lot
> > >>>>> of
> > >>>>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the
> > >>>>> community
> > >>>>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> One thing I want to note;
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about
> > Javascript.
> > >>>>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack
> of
> > >>>>> life.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of
> > joy
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized
> > >>>>> what
> > >>>>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal
> > is
> > >>>>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI
> stuff
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a
> Java
> > >>>>> C++
> > >>>>> toolkit I have been working on the last
> > >>>>> 10 months.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and
> ViewGroup.
> > >>>>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to
> > and
> > >>>>> am
> > >>>>> going to try.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of
> > the
> > >>>>> diamond in the haystack we have.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Peace,
> > >>>>> Mike
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > >>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > >>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Carlos Rovira
> > >>>> Director de Tecnología
> > >>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> > >>>> F: +34 912 35 57 77
> > >>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> > >>>> http://www.directwriter.es
> > >>>> http://www.avant2.es
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > >>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > >>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > > --
> > > Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > > http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > > http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> Director de Tecnología
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> F: +34 912 35 57 77
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> http://www.directwriter.es
> http://www.avant2.es
>
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Frank Pepermans <fr...@hotmail.com>.
Not sure how it would not fit in the definition you state,
I read it as you start out with one code base, and have the ability to run
it on as many devices supported,
if he'd succeed, then then only difference would be that on Android devices,
you app will not be running via AIR, but natively,
does that really matter in the end?
Even if he manages to make even a small subset of Flex port to Java
(Android), that'd be an enormous boost to the project I think.
Ideally, Flex should be very portable to other environments and runtimes,
given the current status of Flex this is an (ugly) behemoth
of a task, perhaps sometime in the future we can think of using the Flex
idea and starting from scratch, in the hopes of creating this very portable
framework some day...
-----Original Message-----
From: Carlos Rovira
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2012 11:07 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Just only a thought... Apache Flex definition is "Apache Flex® is a highly
productive, open source application framework for building and maintaining
expressive web applications that deploy consistently on all major browsers,
desktops and devices (including smartphones, tablets and tv)"
So while the Mike's android idea is interesting does not seems to fit the
goal of this project. Or I missing something?. I think that the effort is
android-only, so not cross-platform.
My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to be part
of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have sense
in its own.
I think that if we does not focus in a set of targets as a group with a
shared clear idea in mind that make this project evolve in the way people
expect, this could make users abandon this project as the time pass in
favor of other technologies/frameworks and make Flex obsolete.
For HTML5 and JS my feeling is that the hype should start to fall since the
performance is very poor compared to native development or opengl based
technologies (like stage3d), -my think is if a genius like Grant Skinner
could not bring better performance with easelJS no body can-. I don't like
to continue attached to Flash VM since the press is very bad and
Adobe/Google is finishing to kill a fantastic product due to decisions made
with Chrome Pepper API. But nowadays I don't see other option since
browsers continue to promote JS virtual machines without making it go to
the same level Flash has today...what is inaceptable as a replacement.
2012/11/15 aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>
> "Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it.
> ;-)"
>
> Do I hear my voice echo? Dude, I really need to know you. ;-)
> On Nov 15, 2012 12:40 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well I can guarantee my development is strictly native Android for the
> > next couple years at least hopefully a lot longer.
> >
> > I could see myself contributing a huge amount of my own resources if I
> > somehow tied that into my Android endeavors. Creating an abstraction of
> > their UI stuff would be really fun and could turn into something I
> > hadn't
> > even thought of.
> >
> > Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> > never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it.
> ;-)
> >
> > When I write tools I always aim for an abstract structure, dealing with
> > MXML we already have it. So if this falls under your HTML5/Web 42 cross
> > compilation, think tank, cloud computing blah blah blah, then great! If
> > not, it does for me. :) (general statement, not aimed at you aYo)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Quoting aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>:
> >
> > a lot of my current work is now AIR and native Android based. Coming
> from
> >> a
> >> flash flex background, I found droid development a lot easier because
> of
> >> its similarity to flex development. Michael has a bijou of an idea
> >> here.
> >> On 14 Nov 2012 23:34, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their
> >> layout
> >>> designer etc.
> >>>
> >>> Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I
> >>> can
> >>> certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having a
> >>> compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that
> their
> >>> XML could not match.
> >>>
> >>> Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
> >>> straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try
> >>> it.
> >>>
> >>> One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work
> for a
> >>> corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling something I
> >>> see
> >>> that could help "something", maybe myself as centered as that sounds.
> >>>
> >>> Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's
> >>> marketing
> >>> schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market it as such
> >>> with
> >>> huge holes in between.
> >>>
> >>> Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community realize
> it
> >>> didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I
> >>> want
> >>> to
> >>> start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have developed
> >>> enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife until you
> >>> have
> >>> invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once you have all
> >>> the
> >>> tools you can then put them together.
> >>>
> >>> As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
> >>>
> >>> Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
> >>> Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if momentum
> >>> goes
> >>> in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't
> >>> canned
> >>> into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Quoting Carlos Rovira <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com****>:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Michael,
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
> >>>> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
> >>>> development but this does not exit yet?
> >>>>
> >>>> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it
> would
> >>>> be
> >>>> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think
> >>>> it's
> >>>> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts,
> >>>> xml
> >>>> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as
> >>>> good
> >>>> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking
> into
> >>>> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools
> work
> >>>> like a charm in java.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Interesting idea!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.****com<
> >>>>> apache@teotigraphix.com>
> >>>>> ]
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
> >>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
> >>>>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
> >>>>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a
> >>>>> lot
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the
> >>>>> community
> >>>>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One thing I want to note;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about
> Javascript.
> >>>>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of
> >>>>> life.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of
> joy
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal
> is
> >>>>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI
> >>>>> stuff
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java
> >>>>> C++
> >>>>> toolkit I have been working on the last
> >>>>> 10 months.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and
> >>>>> ViewGroup.
> >>>>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to
> and
> >>>>> am
> >>>>> going to try.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of
> the
> >>>>> diamond in the haystack we have.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peace,
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>> Director de Tecnología
> >>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> >>>> F: +34 912 35 57 77
> >>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> >>>> http://www.directwriter.es
> >>>> http://www.avant2.es
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > --
> > Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >
> >
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F: +34 912 35 57 77
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.directwriter.es
http://www.avant2.es
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Quoting Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Please don't let too much get lost in translation! I think everyone is
> working towards the same goal here: we want to be able to have a tool that
> allows us to "write once, play everywhere." No-one can (re)build such a
> tool on their own, so we need to work together, each on the part of the
> puzzle that we feel passionate about.
>
> What the others were wondering is if you were going to go "all Android and
> nothing but Android", which you answered: "yes, but I want to build it like
> swiss army knife, able to deliver to any platform. Only, I'm personally
> going to focus on the Android tool on that knife, because that's 'my
> thing'," correct?
Exactly, you should have said it for me. :)
> You seem to be one of the few people that actually understand all this
> stuff, so I'm sure if you build the Android side of things - with the
> 'swiss army knife' in the back of your mind, of course - we can learn from
> that and build towards other platforms from that example.
This is what I'm hoping.
> EdB
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Michael Schmalle
> <ap...@teotigraphix.com>wrote:
>
>> BTW;
>>
>> I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
>> the Flash Player, AIR etc.
>>
>> The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
>> to Adobe in a big way.
>>
>> It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
>> other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the projects
>> goals".
>>
>> What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and hype,
>> hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
>> runs on it!?
>>
>> Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
>> technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
>>
>> Hey,
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator because
>>> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>>>
>>> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
>>> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
>>> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>>>
>>> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>>>
>>> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
>>> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
>>> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>>>
>>> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
>>> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>>>
>>> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
>>> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
>>> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
>>> story.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
>>> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
>>> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to hold, I
>>> think it's holding ti back.
>>>
>>> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
>>> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help something
>>> I don't use.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>>>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
>>>>> be part
>>>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>>>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>>>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
>>>>> sense
>>>>> in its own....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>>>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> -Bertrand
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ix Multimedia Software
>
> Jan Luykenstraat 27
> 3521 VB Utrecht
>
> T. 06-51952295
> I. www.ixsoftware.nl
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
Hi Mike,
Please don't let too much get lost in translation! I think everyone is
working towards the same goal here: we want to be able to have a tool that
allows us to "write once, play everywhere." No-one can (re)build such a
tool on their own, so we need to work together, each on the part of the
puzzle that we feel passionate about.
What the others were wondering is if you were going to go "all Android and
nothing but Android", which you answered: "yes, but I want to build it like
swiss army knife, able to deliver to any platform. Only, I'm personally
going to focus on the Android tool on that knife, because that's 'my
thing'," correct?
You seem to be one of the few people that actually understand all this
stuff, so I'm sure if you build the Android side of things - with the
'swiss army knife' in the back of your mind, of course - we can learn from
that and build towards other platforms from that example.
EdB
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Michael Schmalle
<ap...@teotigraphix.com>wrote:
> BTW;
>
> I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
> the Flash Player, AIR etc.
>
> The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
> to Adobe in a big way.
>
> It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
> other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the projects
> goals".
>
> What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and hype,
> hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
> runs on it!?
>
> Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
> technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
>
> Hey,
>>
>> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator because
>> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>>
>> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
>> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
>> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>>
>> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>>
>> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
>> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
>> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>>
>> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
>> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>>
>> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
>> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
>> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
>> story.
>>
>>
>> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
>> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
>> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to hold, I
>> think it's holding ti back.
>>
>> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
>> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help something
>> I don't use.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
>>>> be part
>>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
>>>> sense
>>>> in its own....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>>> here.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
You know I just had a funny thought.
I wrote an asdoc documentor(from previous code I had from other
projects) in about 1 week with the Falcon compiler and Velocity
templates.
You see I already know this is the future or bust with Flex. How was I
able to create a middle framework that analyzed the AS3 model that was
created by the compiler? I knew the API of accessors and renderers.
I then turned the compiler's data structure into a HTML documentation
view with a renderer framework I wrote that understood the AS3 dialect
using an accessor framework.
Folks, I know this is all possible because I have already done it. (in a way)
The MXML compiler just adds a huge amount of new possibilities because
you are dealing with the same semantics in the compilers model but it
can be written declarative in MXML!
Mike
Quoting João Fernandes <jo...@gmail.com>:
> I have to agree with aYo and anyone is free to try to implement a similar
> solution of iOS or other platform.
>
>
> On 15 November 2012 11:31, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Mike again, I feel that the idea of creating an android bridge
>> does not conflict with cross platform compatibility. It gives the developer
>> an extra edge to a choice that already exists, re the ability to create an
>> android app in air. The edge would be the choice between an air apk or a
>> native droid one.
>> On Nov 15, 2012 11:09 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > BTW;
>> >
>> > I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
>> > the Flash Player, AIR etc.
>> >
>> > The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
>> > to Adobe in a big way.
>> >
>> > It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
>> > other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the
>> projects
>> > goals".
>> >
>> > What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and
>> hype,
>> > hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
>> > runs on it!?
>> >
>> > Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
>> > technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >
>> > Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
>> >
>> > Hey,
>> >>
>> >> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator
>> because
>> >> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>> >>
>> >> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
>> >> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
>> >> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>> >>
>> >> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>> >>
>> >> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
>> >> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
>> >> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>> >>
>> >> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
>> >> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>> >>
>> >> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
>> >> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
>> >> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
>> >> story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
>> >> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
>> >> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to
>> hold, I
>> >> think it's holding ti back.
>> >>
>> >> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
>> >> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help
>> something
>> >> I don't use.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>> >>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
>> >>>> be part
>> >>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>> >>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>> >>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
>> >>>> sense
>> >>>> in its own....
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>> >>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>> >>> here.
>> >>>
>> >>> -Bertrand
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> >> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> >> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> > http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> > http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> João Fernandes
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by João Fernandes <jo...@gmail.com>.
I have to agree with aYo and anyone is free to try to implement a similar
solution of iOS or other platform.
On 15 November 2012 11:31, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
> I agree with Mike again, I feel that the idea of creating an android bridge
> does not conflict with cross platform compatibility. It gives the developer
> an extra edge to a choice that already exists, re the ability to create an
> android app in air. The edge would be the choice between an air apk or a
> native droid one.
> On Nov 15, 2012 11:09 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> wrote:
>
> > BTW;
> >
> > I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
> > the Flash Player, AIR etc.
> >
> > The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
> > to Adobe in a big way.
> >
> > It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
> > other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the
> projects
> > goals".
> >
> > What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and
> hype,
> > hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
> > runs on it!?
> >
> > Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
> > technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
> >
> > Hey,
> >>
> >> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator
> because
> >> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
> >>
> >> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
> >> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
> >> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
> >>
> >> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
> >>
> >> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
> >> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
> >> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
> >>
> >> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
> >> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
> >>
> >> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
> >> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
> >> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
> >> story.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
> >> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
> >> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to
> hold, I
> >> think it's holding ti back.
> >>
> >> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
> >> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help
> something
> >> I don't use.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
> >>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
> >>>> be part
> >>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
> >>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
> >>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
> >>>> sense
> >>>> in its own....
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
> >>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
> >>> here.
> >>>
> >>> -Bertrand
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >
> >
>
--
João Fernandes
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Erik de Bruin <er...@ixsoftware.nl>.
In short, Android delivery is one implementation of the cross platform API
(swiss army knife)?
EdB
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 12:31 PM, aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com> wrote:
> I agree with Mike again, I feel that the idea of creating an android bridge
> does not conflict with cross platform compatibility. It gives the developer
> an extra edge to a choice that already exists, re the ability to create an
> android app in air. The edge would be the choice between an air apk or a
> native droid one.
> On Nov 15, 2012 11:09 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> wrote:
>
> > BTW;
> >
> > I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
> > the Flash Player, AIR etc.
> >
> > The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
> > to Adobe in a big way.
> >
> > It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
> > other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the
> projects
> > goals".
> >
> > What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and
> hype,
> > hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
> > runs on it!?
> >
> > Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
> > technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
> >
> > Hey,
> >>
> >> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator
> because
> >> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
> >>
> >> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
> >> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
> >> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
> >>
> >> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
> >>
> >> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
> >> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
> >> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
> >>
> >> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
> >> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
> >>
> >> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
> >> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
> >> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
> >> story.
> >>
> >>
> >> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
> >> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
> >> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to
> hold, I
> >> think it's holding ti back.
> >>
> >> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
> >> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help
> something
> >> I don't use.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
> >>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
> >>>> be part
> >>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
> >>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
> >>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
> >>>> sense
> >>>> in its own....
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
> >>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
> >>> here.
> >>>
> >>> -Bertrand
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >
> >
>
--
Ix Multimedia Software
Jan Luykenstraat 27
3521 VB Utrecht
T. 06-51952295
I. www.ixsoftware.nl
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
I agree with Mike again, I feel that the idea of creating an android bridge
does not conflict with cross platform compatibility. It gives the developer
an extra edge to a choice that already exists, re the ability to create an
android app in air. The edge would be the choice between an air apk or a
native droid one.
On Nov 15, 2012 11:09 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
wrote:
> BTW;
>
> I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
> the Flash Player, AIR etc.
>
> The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
> to Adobe in a big way.
>
> It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
> other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the projects
> goals".
>
> What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and hype,
> hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
> runs on it!?
>
> Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
> technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
>
> Mike
>
>
> Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
>
> Hey,
>>
>> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator because
>> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>>
>> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
>> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
>> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>>
>> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>>
>> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
>> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
>> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>>
>> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
>> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>>
>> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
>> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
>> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
>> story.
>>
>>
>> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
>> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
>> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to hold, I
>> think it's holding ti back.
>>
>> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
>> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help something
>> I don't use.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
>>>> be part
>>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
>>>> sense
>>>> in its own....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>>> here.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Yes there are a lot of similarities.
I write in Andorid, the XML design feels like HTML4 in relation to
what we can do in MXML. Not to mention tricks and optimizations that
we do, like inline, data binding.
Creating/including custom components in Android XML is a pain. Imagine
with Flex and it's MXML. They also have layout includes and other
optimizations.
Just the ability to wrangle Androids most principled and basic design
patterns in an easy to use Flex template/components.
What I have not thought about what so ever is how the build works, but
that's just another step.
Man, you could just use Flex to create full templates for android
dynamically based on mxml. The ideas are limitless when you think
about how abstract we could make Flex and MXML.
Mike
Quoting Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>:
> Hi,
>
> I think it's an is a worth exploring. There is a similarity between
> MXML and Android's XML group views and at first glance looks like
> something is certainly possible in that direction. Also android does
> have some interesting layout concepts (gravity and weight for
> instance) which make it far easier to make screen independent and
> density independent applications. Perhaps some of those ideas can
> flow back into the Flex SDK? For instance it would be fairly
> straight forward to make a Flex vertical or horizontal layout that
> supported weight (it's similar to % width I know).
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
I think it's an is a worth exploring. There is a similarity between MXML and Android's XML group views and at first glance looks like something is certainly possible in that direction. Also android does have some interesting layout concepts (gravity and weight for instance) which make it far easier to make screen independent and density independent applications. Perhaps some of those ideas can flow back into the Flex SDK? For instance it would be fairly straight forward to make a Flex vertical or horizontal layout that supported weight (it's similar to % width I know).
Thanks,
Justin
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Carlos,
I totally get where you are coming from with the implied strength of
this framework being is "standards approach to development".
Let me rephrase;
My idea is that the MXML compiler is a VERY powerful user interface
abstraction tool. I think Gordon said it well, that MXML is a very
capable declarative user interface abstraction.
This is what I am talking about leveraging. Whether MXML gets rendered
to Android, JS, HTML5 what ever, my point is, I can use Android as a
starting point because this is where my money is coming from.
You know I have heard OOP preached forever that the model needs to be
separated from the view. This is where the MXML compiler could be
reinvented.
> "one-man-effort"
Well I get what your saying but, efforts come into existence to solve
problems.
I'm not talking about making Android applications in AS3 either. I'm
talking about the "view" layer.
Anyway, this idea is not even thought out yet.
Mike
Quoting Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>:
> Hi, I understand your points, and seems very logical. I only want to
> express this thoughts I was having and my fear that this project would end
> having many new disconnected things that finaly ends with it in the future,
> and see others opinion. Taking things like "one-man-effort" seems to be the
> natural way, since only traction of that one effort could make people to
> join that particular cause.
>
>
> 2012/11/15 Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
>
>> BTW;
>>
>> I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
>> the Flash Player, AIR etc.
>>
>> The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
>> to Adobe in a big way.
>>
>> It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
>> other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the projects
>> goals".
>>
>> What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and hype,
>> hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
>> runs on it!?
>>
>> Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
>> technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
>>
>> Hey,
>>>
>>> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator because
>>> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>>>
>>> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
>>> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
>>> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>>>
>>> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>>>
>>> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
>>> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
>>> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>>>
>>> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
>>> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>>>
>>> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
>>> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
>>> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
>>> story.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
>>> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
>>> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to hold, I
>>> think it's holding ti back.
>>>
>>> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
>>> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help something
>>> I don't use.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>>>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
>>>>> be part
>>>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>>>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>>>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
>>>>> sense
>>>>> in its own....
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>>>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>> -Bertrand
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> Director de Tecnología
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> F: +34 912 35 57 77
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> http://www.directwriter.es
> http://www.avant2.es
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
Hi, I understand your points, and seems very logical. I only want to
express this thoughts I was having and my fear that this project would end
having many new disconnected things that finaly ends with it in the future,
and see others opinion. Taking things like "one-man-effort" seems to be the
natural way, since only traction of that one effort could make people to
join that particular cause.
2012/11/15 Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> BTW;
>
> I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different from
> the Flash Player, AIR etc.
>
> The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still married
> to Adobe in a big way.
>
> It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to some
> other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the projects
> goals".
>
> What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and hype,
> hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new framework that
> runs on it!?
>
> Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a proprietary
> technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
>
> Hey,
>>
>> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator because
>> I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>>
>> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
>> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
>> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>>
>> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>>
>> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
>> mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is very
>> into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>>
>> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
>> couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>>
>> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
>> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and then
>> move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is another
>> story.
>>
>>
>> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
>> guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with the
>> main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to hold, I
>> think it's holding ti back.
>>
>> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just quit
>> and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help something
>> I don't use.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>>> <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to
>>>> be part
>>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have
>>>> sense
>>>> in its own....
>>>>
>>>
>>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>>> here.
>>>
>>> -Bertrand
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F: +34 912 35 57 77
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.directwriter.es
http://www.avant2.es
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
BTW;
I am having a REAL HARD time understanding why Android is different
from the Flash Player, AIR etc.
The only thing I am starting to get here is this project is still
married to Adobe in a big way.
It's a shame, I bring up an idea about bridging the Flex compiler to
some other open-source project and I get the "your not inline with the
projects goals".
What to keep giving Adobe and their Flash Player all the support and
hype, hey they have Stage3D now folks we must create a whole new
framework that runs on it!?
Is there any other Apache project that is so dependent on a
proprietary technology like Flex is with the Flash Player?
Mike
Quoting Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>:
> Hey,
>
> Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator
> because I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
>
> Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
> "inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
> translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
>
> Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
>
> All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create
> this mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that
> is very into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
>
> So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that
> it couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
>
> My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
> first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and
> then move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is
> another story.
>
>
> Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities.
> I guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree
> with the main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is
> trying to hold, I think it's holding ti back.
>
> The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just
> quit and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even
> help something I don't use.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
>> <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you,
>>> but to be part
>>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have sense
>>> in its own....
>>
>> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
>> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
>> here.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Hey,
Don't get me wrong here people, I always sound like an instigator
because I love life to much to be tied down to a thought.
Yes I read Carlos's thoughts on splitting the project and not being
"inline" with the project's "multi-deployment" goals. This is where
translation gets lost in email and culture I guess.
Please re-read what I wrote about the Swiss Army knife analogy.
All, I am not a corporation nor an huge entity that could create this
mammoth run everywhere dream you hope of. I AM a developer that is
very into Android and see a bridge with this project. A use-case.
So who is to say If I could with others help get this to work, that it
couldn't then be applied to other platforms?
My strong emphasis on Android is to say, hey focus on the one
first(something that you are good at), get it right, perfect it and
then move to the many. That is all I am saying, how we get there is
another story.
Bertrand, your right with that comment about splitting communities. I
guess this is why I haven't brought this up because I disagree with
the main mission of the run everywhere majic this project is trying to
hold, I think it's holding ti back.
The truth is, If I got ostracized because of this idea I would just
quit and do all Android/Music like my original plan was, why even help
something I don't use.
Mike
Quoting Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>:
> On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
> <ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
>> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but
>> to be part
>> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
>> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
>> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have sense
>> in its own....
>
> Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
> android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
> here.
>
> -Bertrand
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Carlos Rovira
<ca...@codeoscopic.com> wrote:
> ...My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to be part
> of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
> project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
> different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have sense
> in its own....
Splitting projects usually splits communities as well - IMO some
android-specific stuff could very well live in an "android" subfolder
here.
-Bertrand
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
Just only a thought... Apache Flex definition is "Apache Flex® is a highly
productive, open source application framework for building and maintaining
expressive web applications that deploy consistently on all major browsers,
desktops and devices (including smartphones, tablets and tv)"
So while the Mike's android idea is interesting does not seems to fit the
goal of this project. Or I missing something?. I think that the effort is
android-only, so not cross-platform.
My key points here is: whatever you want to do is up to you, but to be part
of Apache Flex should be aligned with the main focus and goal of the
project. If you use the Falcon compiler to make something useful but
different, I think it could be a brand new project, that could have sense
in its own.
I think that if we does not focus in a set of targets as a group with a
shared clear idea in mind that make this project evolve in the way people
expect, this could make users abandon this project as the time pass in
favor of other technologies/frameworks and make Flex obsolete.
For HTML5 and JS my feeling is that the hype should start to fall since the
performance is very poor compared to native development or opengl based
technologies (like stage3d), -my think is if a genius like Grant Skinner
could not bring better performance with easelJS no body can-. I don't like
to continue attached to Flash VM since the press is very bad and
Adobe/Google is finishing to kill a fantastic product due to decisions made
with Chrome Pepper API. But nowadays I don't see other option since
browsers continue to promote JS virtual machines without making it go to
the same level Flash has today...what is inaceptable as a replacement.
2012/11/15 aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>
> "Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it. ;-)"
>
> Do I hear my voice echo? Dude, I really need to know you. ;-)
> On Nov 15, 2012 12:40 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Well I can guarantee my development is strictly native Android for the
> > next couple years at least hopefully a lot longer.
> >
> > I could see myself contributing a huge amount of my own resources if I
> > somehow tied that into my Android endeavors. Creating an abstraction of
> > their UI stuff would be really fun and could turn into something I hadn't
> > even thought of.
> >
> > Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> > never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it.
> ;-)
> >
> > When I write tools I always aim for an abstract structure, dealing with
> > MXML we already have it. So if this falls under your HTML5/Web 42 cross
> > compilation, think tank, cloud computing blah blah blah, then great! If
> > not, it does for me. :) (general statement, not aimed at you aYo)
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Quoting aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>:
> >
> > a lot of my current work is now AIR and native Android based. Coming
> from
> >> a
> >> flash flex background, I found droid development a lot easier because
> of
> >> its similarity to flex development. Michael has a bijou of an idea here.
> >> On 14 Nov 2012 23:34, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their layout
> >>> designer etc.
> >>>
> >>> Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I can
> >>> certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having a
> >>> compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that
> their
> >>> XML could not match.
> >>>
> >>> Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
> >>> straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try it.
> >>>
> >>> One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work
> for a
> >>> corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling something I
> >>> see
> >>> that could help "something", maybe myself as centered as that sounds.
> >>>
> >>> Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's
> >>> marketing
> >>> schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market it as such
> >>> with
> >>> huge holes in between.
> >>>
> >>> Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community realize
> it
> >>> didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I want
> >>> to
> >>> start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have developed
> >>> enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife until you have
> >>> invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once you have all the
> >>> tools you can then put them together.
> >>>
> >>> As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
> >>>
> >>> Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
> >>> Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if momentum
> >>> goes
> >>> in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't canned
> >>> into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
> >>>
> >>> Mike
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Quoting Carlos Rovira <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com****>:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Michael,
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
> >>>> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
> >>>> development but this does not exit yet?
> >>>>
> >>>> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it
> would
> >>>> be
> >>>> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think
> >>>> it's
> >>>> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts,
> >>>> xml
> >>>> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as
> >>>> good
> >>>> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking
> into
> >>>> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools
> work
> >>>> like a charm in java.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
> >>>>
> >>>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Interesting idea!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.****com<
> >>>>> apache@teotigraphix.com>
> >>>>> ]
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
> >>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
> >>>>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
> >>>>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a
> >>>>> lot
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the
> >>>>> community
> >>>>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One thing I want to note;
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about
> Javascript.
> >>>>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of
> >>>>> life.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of
> joy
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal
> is
> >>>>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java
> >>>>> C++
> >>>>> toolkit I have been working on the last
> >>>>> 10 months.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
> >>>>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to
> and
> >>>>> am
> >>>>> going to try.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of
> the
> >>>>> diamond in the haystack we have.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peace,
> >>>>> Mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Carlos Rovira
> >>>> Director de Tecnología
> >>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> >>>> F: +34 912 35 57 77
> >>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> >>>> http://www.directwriter.es
> >>>> http://www.avant2.es
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> > --
> > Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> > http://www.teotigraphix.com
> > http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >
> >
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F: +34 912 35 57 77
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.directwriter.es
http://www.avant2.es
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
"Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it. ;-)"
Do I hear my voice echo? Dude, I really need to know you. ;-)
On Nov 15, 2012 12:40 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com>
wrote:
> Well I can guarantee my development is strictly native Android for the
> next couple years at least hopefully a lot longer.
>
> I could see myself contributing a huge amount of my own resources if I
> somehow tied that into my Android endeavors. Creating an abstraction of
> their UI stuff would be really fun and could turn into something I hadn't
> even thought of.
>
> Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I really
> never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care about it. ;-)
>
> When I write tools I always aim for an abstract structure, dealing with
> MXML we already have it. So if this falls under your HTML5/Web 42 cross
> compilation, think tank, cloud computing blah blah blah, then great! If
> not, it does for me. :) (general statement, not aimed at you aYo)
>
> Mike
>
> Quoting aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>:
>
> a lot of my current work is now AIR and native Android based. Coming from
>> a
>> flash flex background, I found droid development a lot easier because of
>> its similarity to flex development. Michael has a bijou of an idea here.
>> On 14 Nov 2012 23:34, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their layout
>>> designer etc.
>>>
>>> Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I can
>>> certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having a
>>> compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that their
>>> XML could not match.
>>>
>>> Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
>>> straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try it.
>>>
>>> One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work for a
>>> corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling something I
>>> see
>>> that could help "something", maybe myself as centered as that sounds.
>>>
>>> Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's
>>> marketing
>>> schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market it as such
>>> with
>>> huge holes in between.
>>>
>>> Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community realize it
>>> didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I want
>>> to
>>> start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have developed
>>> enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife until you have
>>> invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once you have all the
>>> tools you can then put them together.
>>>
>>> As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
>>>
>>> Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
>>> Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if momentum
>>> goes
>>> in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't canned
>>> into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Carlos Rovira <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com****>:
>>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
>>>> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
>>>> development but this does not exit yet?
>>>>
>>>> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it would
>>>> be
>>>> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think
>>>> it's
>>>> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts,
>>>> xml
>>>> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as
>>>> good
>>>> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking into
>>>> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools work
>>>> like a charm in java.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
>>>>
>>>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting idea!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.****com<
>>>>> apache@teotigraphix.com>
>>>>> ]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
>>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>
>>>>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
>>>>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
>>>>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a
>>>>> lot
>>>>> of
>>>>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the
>>>>> community
>>>>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I want to note;
>>>>>
>>>>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
>>>>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of
>>>>> life.
>>>>>
>>>>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy
>>>>> and
>>>>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized
>>>>> what
>>>>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is
>>>>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff
>>>>> with
>>>>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java
>>>>> C++
>>>>> toolkit I have been working on the last
>>>>> 10 months.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>>>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and
>>>>> am
>>>>> going to try.
>>>>>
>>>>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
>>>>> diamond in the haystack we have.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peace,
>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carlos Rovira
>>>> Director de Tecnología
>>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>>>> F: +34 912 35 57 77
>>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
>>>> http://www.directwriter.es
>>>> http://www.avant2.es
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Well I can guarantee my development is strictly native Android for the
next couple years at least hopefully a lot longer.
I could see myself contributing a huge amount of my own resources if I
somehow tied that into my Android endeavors. Creating an abstraction
of their UI stuff would be really fun and could turn into something I
hadn't even thought of.
Yes, I am only talking about Android here, that is what I use. I
really never see myself developing on iOS, so why would I even care
about it. ;-)
When I write tools I always aim for an abstract structure, dealing
with MXML we already have it. So if this falls under your HTML5/Web 42
cross compilation, think tank, cloud computing blah blah blah, then
great! If not, it does for me. :) (general statement, not aimed at you
aYo)
Mike
Quoting aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>:
> a lot of my current work is now AIR and native Android based. Coming from a
> flash flex background, I found droid development a lot easier because of
> its similarity to flex development. Michael has a bijou of an idea here.
> On 14 Nov 2012 23:34, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their layout
>> designer etc.
>>
>> Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I can
>> certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having a
>> compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that their
>> XML could not match.
>>
>> Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
>> straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try it.
>>
>> One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work for a
>> corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling something I see
>> that could help "something", maybe myself as centered as that sounds.
>>
>> Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's marketing
>> schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market it as such with
>> huge holes in between.
>>
>> Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community realize it
>> didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I want to
>> start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have developed
>> enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife until you have
>> invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once you have all the
>> tools you can then put them together.
>>
>> As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
>>
>> Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
>> Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if momentum goes
>> in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't canned
>> into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Carlos Rovira <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**>:
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>>
>>> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
>>> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
>>> development but this does not exit yet?
>>>
>>> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it would be
>>> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think it's
>>> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts, xml
>>> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as good
>>> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking into
>>> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools work
>>> like a charm in java.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
>>>
>>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>>>
>>>> Interesting idea!
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Michael Schmalle
>>>> [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.**com<ap...@teotigraphix.com>
>>>> ]
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
>>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
>>>>
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
>>>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
>>>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a lot
>>>> of
>>>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the
>>>> community
>>>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
>>>>
>>>> One thing I want to note;
>>>>
>>>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
>>>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of
>>>> life.
>>>>
>>>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy
>>>> and
>>>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized what
>>>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is
>>>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff
>>>> with
>>>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java C++
>>>> toolkit I have been working on the last
>>>> 10 months.
>>>>
>>>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am
>>>> going to try.
>>>>
>>>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
>>>> diamond in the haystack we have.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
>>>>
>>>> Peace,
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Carlos Rovira
>>> Director de Tecnología
>>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>>> F: +34 912 35 57 77
>>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
>>> http://www.directwriter.es
>>> http://www.avant2.es
>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by aYo ~ <ay...@binitie.com>.
a lot of my current work is now AIR and native Android based. Coming from a
flash flex background, I found droid development a lot easier because of
its similarity to flex development. Michael has a bijou of an idea here.
On 14 Nov 2012 23:34, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
> Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their layout
> designer etc.
>
> Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I can
> certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having a
> compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that their
> XML could not match.
>
> Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
> straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try it.
>
> One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work for a
> corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling something I see
> that could help "something", maybe myself as centered as that sounds.
>
> Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's marketing
> schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market it as such with
> huge holes in between.
>
> Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community realize it
> didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I want to
> start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have developed
> enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife until you have
> invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once you have all the
> tools you can then put them together.
>
> As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
>
> Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
> Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if momentum goes
> in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't canned
> into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Quoting Carlos Rovira <carlos.rovira@codeoscopic.com**>:
>
> Hi Michael,
>>
>> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
>> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
>> development but this does not exit yet?
>>
>> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it would be
>> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think it's
>> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts, xml
>> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as good
>> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking into
>> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools work
>> like a charm in java.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
>>
>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>>
>>> Interesting idea!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.**com<ap...@teotigraphix.com>
>>> ]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
>>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
>>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
>>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a lot
>>> of
>>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the
>>> community
>>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
>>>
>>> One thing I want to note;
>>>
>>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
>>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of
>>> life.
>>>
>>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy
>>> and
>>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized what
>>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is
>>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff
>>> with
>>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java C++
>>> toolkit I have been working on the last
>>> 10 months.
>>>
>>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am
>>> going to try.
>>>
>>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
>>> diamond in the haystack we have.
>>>
>>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Carlos Rovira
>> Director de Tecnología
>> M: +34 607 22 60 05
>> F: +34 912 35 57 77
>> http://www.codeoscopic.com
>> http://www.directwriter.es
>> http://www.avant2.es
>>
>>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Yes, it does exist and Google has don a fine job promoting their
layout designer etc.
Coming from years of Flex development and MXML application design I
can certainly say that although using XML as they do is great, having
a compiler like the MXML compiler could offer a huge abstraction that
their XML could not match.
Plus the extension side of being able to produce their layout XML OR
straight Java constructs is compelling enough for me to want to try it.
One of the great things I am realizing about Apache is I don't work
for a corporation and even the WC3. I work for myself fulfilling
something I see that could help "something", maybe myself as centered
as that sounds.
Regardless of this idea I have, my point is this. One of Adobe's
marketing schemes was to throw crap on every wall possible and market
it as such with huge holes in between.
Apache Flex will get a new life if us committers and community realize
it didn't work then and it won't work now. (The one size fits all). I
want to start off with point specific tools that do 1 thing. I have
developed enough tools to know you don't invent a swiss army knife
until you have invented the knife, screwdriver, cork opener etc. Once
you have all the tools you can then put them together.
As far a JavFX well, I don't know I haven't used it.
Like I said, I have no stake in Flex and I want to stay away from the
Flash Player and AIR. This doesn't mean I won't contribute if momentum
goes in a certain direction, just that I want my own dream that isn't
canned into the cliche'd 2012 HTML5 hype.
Mike
Quoting Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>:
> Hi Michael,
>
> could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
> Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
> development but this does not exit yet?
>
> btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it would be
> a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think it's
> very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts, xml
> layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as good
> as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking into
> account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools work
> like a charm in java.
>
>
>
> 2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
>
>> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>>
>> Interesting idea!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
>> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
>> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a lot of
>> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the community
>> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
>>
>> One thing I want to note;
>>
>> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
>> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of life.
>>
>> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy and
>> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized what
>> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is
>> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff with
>> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java C++
>> toolkit I have been working on the last
>> 10 months.
>>
>> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am
>> going to try.
>>
>> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
>> diamond in the haystack we have.
>>
>> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
>>
>> Peace,
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> Director de Tecnología
> M: +34 607 22 60 05
> F: +34 912 35 57 77
> http://www.codeoscopic.com
> http://www.directwriter.es
> http://www.avant2.es
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Carlos Rovira <ca...@codeoscopic.com>.
Hi Michael,
could you explain a bit more?. Your idea is about make XML layout for
Android based on Falcon?. I don't know to much about native android
development but this does not exit yet?
btw, a coworker showed me latest version of JavaFX and I think it would be
a good idea for all of us here to see this new version since I think it's
very promising. I saw many things copied from flex (skins, skinparts, xml
layout declaration, netbeans desing view editor,...). If JavaFx is as good
as it seems to be, I think it could be a decent competitor, taking into
account that thinks like eclipse, maven and other industrial tools work
like a charm in java.
2012/11/14 Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>
> > MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
>
> Interesting idea!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
>
> Hey,
>
> I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my
> intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have
> noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a lot of
> my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the community
> involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
>
> One thing I want to note;
>
> At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
> Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of life.
>
> That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy and
> invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized what
> that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is
> realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff with
> music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java C++
> toolkit I have been working on the last
> 10 months.
>
> What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
> Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am
> going to try.
>
> Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the
> diamond in the haystack we have.
>
> Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
>
> Peace,
> Mike
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
--
Carlos Rovira
Director de Tecnología
M: +34 607 22 60 05
F: +34 912 35 57 77
http://www.codeoscopic.com
http://www.directwriter.es
http://www.avant2.es
RE: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Posted by Gordon Smith <go...@adobe.com>.
> MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
Interesting idea!
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Schmalle [mailto:apache@teotigraphix.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 2:07 PM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: [FALCON] It starts with an idea
Hey,
I just wanted to state this in a new thread so others might know my intentions as a committer for the time being. Some of you might have noticed I am quite interested in the compiler and plan on donating a lot of my time to it helping Gordon out with tests and trying to get the community involved by documenting some of the more obscure features.
One thing I want to note;
At this point in time in my life I really don't care about Javascript.
Really, I don't and it's never going to be a badge on my backpack of life.
That being said, I see my contribution in the project a process of joy and invention. Just writing something to Gordon a second ago I realized what that is. The only way I can continue is if I have a goal. That goal is realized by the fact I program Java android and do extensive UI stuff with music applications I have coming up in the next 2 years using a Java C++ toolkit I have been working on the last
10 months.
What does this mean? MXML -> Java Android UI like View and ViewGroup.
Man I have no idea how the hell I could do it but I know I want to and am going to try.
Getting into the MXML compiler the last couple days reminded me of the diamond in the haystack we have.
Anyway, more thoughts to come, this was a off the cuff ramble.
Peace,
Mike
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com