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Posted to dev@giraph.apache.org by Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org> on 2012/05/04 18:26:37 UTC
[DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
All,
We need a resolution before we can do the vote on incubator
general. The text is pretty boilerplate, but make sure that I got all
of the spots fixed and got all of the names right. I've removed Arun
Suresh and Phillip Rhodes since they haven't participated in the
project while it has been in incubation.
-- Owen
## Resolution to create a TLP from graduating Incubator podling
X. Establish the Apache Giraph Project
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software related to a highly scaleable, fault-tolerant,
Bulk Synchronous Parallel (BSP)-based graph processing framework
for distribution at no charge to the public.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Giraph Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to a distributed computing graph processing framework;
and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Giraph" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Giraph Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Giraph Project:
* Avery Ching <ac...@apache.org>
* Claudio Martella <cl...@apache.org>
* Dmitriy V. Ryaboy <dv...@apache.org>
* Eugene Joseph Koontz <ek...@apache.org>
* Hyunsik Choi <hy...@apache.org>
* Jakob Homan <jg...@apache.org>
* Jake Mannix <jm...@apache.org>
* Christian Kunz <ku...@apache.org>
* Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>
* Sebastian Schelter <ss...@apache.org>
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Avery Ching
be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Giraph, to
serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Giraph PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Giraph podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Giraph podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Christian Kunz <ch...@jybe-inc.com>.
Sorry about that (my current non-involvement).
Currently working for a start-up with no bandwidth left (not even on weekends) and, unfortunately, that start-up does not need Giraph right away. I hope this will change sometime in the future.
-Christian
On May 4, 2012, at 10:09 AM, Jakob Homan wrote:
> Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
> annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
> Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
> during incubation...
> -Jakob
>
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Looking good below.
>>
>> +1.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> On May 4, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Owen O'Malley wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>> We need a resolution before we can do the vote on incubator
>>> general. The text is pretty boilerplate, but make sure that I got all
>>> of the spots fixed and got all of the names right. I've removed Arun
>>> Suresh and Phillip Rhodes since they haven't participated in the
>>> project while it has been in incubation.
>>>
>>> -- Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> ## Resolution to create a TLP from graduating Incubator podling
>>>
>>> X. Establish the Apache Giraph Project
>>>
>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>> open-source software related to a highly scaleable, fault-tolerant,
>>> Bulk Synchronous Parallel (BSP)-based graph processing framework
>>> for distribution at no charge to the public.
>>>
>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Giraph Project",
>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby is
>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>> related to a distributed computing graph processing framework;
>>> and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Giraph" be
>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>> of the Apache Giraph Project, and to have primary responsibility
>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>> responsibility of the Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>> Apache Giraph Project:
>>>
>>> * Avery Ching <ac...@apache.org>
>>> * Claudio Martella <cl...@apache.org>
>>> * Dmitriy V. Ryaboy <dv...@apache.org>
>>> * Eugene Joseph Koontz <ek...@apache.org>
>>> * Hyunsik Choi <hy...@apache.org>
>>> * Jakob Homan <jg...@apache.org>
>>> * Jake Mannix <jm...@apache.org>
>>> * Christian Kunz <ku...@apache.org>
>>> * Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>
>>> * Sebastian Schelter <ss...@apache.org>
>>>
>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Avery Ching
>>> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Giraph, to
>>> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>>> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>>> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
>>> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Giraph PMC be and hereby is
>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>> Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby
>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>>> Incubator Giraph podling; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>> Incubator Giraph podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
[DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Hyunsik Choi <hy...@apache.org>.
I agree the suggestions, and +1 on the resolution.
2012년 5월 5일 토요일에 Owen O'Malley님이 작성:
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
> > annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
> > Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
> > during incubation...
>
> Since this resolution is a one-off, I would suggest putting the anual
> rotation in the bylaws that will be part of the project's permanent
> website. That will make it more visible and easier for the project to
> change it itself.
>
> I agree that Christian hasn't been involved while it is in the
> incubator. On the other hand, he was heavily involved before it came
> to Apache. Looking at the svn logs, the number of commits (not
> contributions) per user is:
>
> 148 aching
> 47 jghoman
> 37 ckunz
> 11 claudio
> 7 exg
> 5 ssc
> 4 hyunsik
> 3 omalley
> 1 kunzchr
> 1 jmannix
> 1 ekoontz
> 1 asuresh
>
> So Christian only has 1 commit at Apache, but he has 37 prior. Given
> that level of involvement, I'd rather put him on the Giraph PMC and
> let him go emeritis in a few months. What do others think?
>
> -- Owen
>
--
--
Hyunsik Choi
Database Lab, Korea University
http://diveintodata.org
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
My general strategy here is to include anyone on the PPMC + mentors on
the resolution and to let someone tell you (like me) that they don't need/want
to be on the resolution.
IOW, let them opt out.
Cheers,
Chris
On May 4, 2012, at 10:23 AM, Owen O'Malley wrote:
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
>> annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
>> Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
>> during incubation...
>
> Since this resolution is a one-off, I would suggest putting the anual
> rotation in the bylaws that will be part of the project's permanent
> website. That will make it more visible and easier for the project to
> change it itself.
>
> I agree that Christian hasn't been involved while it is in the
> incubator. On the other hand, he was heavily involved before it came
> to Apache. Looking at the svn logs, the number of commits (not
> contributions) per user is:
>
> 148 aching
> 47 jghoman
> 37 ckunz
> 11 claudio
> 7 exg
> 5 ssc
> 4 hyunsik
> 3 omalley
> 1 kunzchr
> 1 jmannix
> 1 ekoontz
> 1 asuresh
>
> So Christian only has 1 commit at Apache, but he has 37 prior. Given
> that level of involvement, I'd rather put him on the Giraph PMC and
> let him go emeritis in a few months. What do others think?
>
> -- Owen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Sebastian Schelter <ss...@apache.org>.
+1 from me too.
On 07.05.2012 12:12, Claudio Martella wrote:
> +1 from me as well
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 12:11 AM, Eugene Koontz <ek...@hiro-tan.org> wrote:
>> +1 for me on the resolution text.
>> -Eugene
>
>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Claudio Martella <cl...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me as well
On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 12:11 AM, Eugene Koontz <ek...@hiro-tan.org> wrote:
> +1 for me on the resolution text.
> -Eugene
--
Claudio Martella
claudio.martella@gmail.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Eugene Koontz <ek...@hiro-tan.org>.
+1 for me on the resolution text.
-Eugene
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Avery Ching <ac...@apache.org>.
+1, sounds good to me. I also would like to have a rotating PMC chair.
Avery
On 5/4/12 10:26 AM, Jakob Homan wrote:
> Both suggestions sound reasonable to me. +1 on the current resolution.
>
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Owen O'Malley<om...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jakob Homan<jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
>>> annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
>>> Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
>>> during incubation...
>> Since this resolution is a one-off, I would suggest putting the anual
>> rotation in the bylaws that will be part of the project's permanent
>> website. That will make it more visible and easier for the project to
>> change it itself.
>>
>> I agree that Christian hasn't been involved while it is in the
>> incubator. On the other hand, he was heavily involved before it came
>> to Apache. Looking at the svn logs, the number of commits (not
>> contributions) per user is:
>>
>> 148 aching
>> 47 jghoman
>> 37 ckunz
>> 11 claudio
>> 7 exg
>> 5 ssc
>> 4 hyunsik
>> 3 omalley
>> 1 kunzchr
>> 1 jmannix
>> 1 ekoontz
>> 1 asuresh
>>
>> So Christian only has 1 commit at Apache, but he has 37 prior. Given
>> that level of involvement, I'd rather put him on the Giraph PMC and
>> let him go emeritis in a few months. What do others think?
>>
>> -- Owen
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com>.
Both suggestions sound reasonable to me. +1 on the current resolution.
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
>> annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
>> Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
>> during incubation...
>
> Since this resolution is a one-off, I would suggest putting the anual
> rotation in the bylaws that will be part of the project's permanent
> website. That will make it more visible and easier for the project to
> change it itself.
>
> I agree that Christian hasn't been involved while it is in the
> incubator. On the other hand, he was heavily involved before it came
> to Apache. Looking at the svn logs, the number of commits (not
> contributions) per user is:
>
> 148 aching
> 47 jghoman
> 37 ckunz
> 11 claudio
> 7 exg
> 5 ssc
> 4 hyunsik
> 3 omalley
> 1 kunzchr
> 1 jmannix
> 1 ekoontz
> 1 asuresh
>
> So Christian only has 1 commit at Apache, but he has 37 prior. Given
> that level of involvement, I'd rather put him on the Giraph PMC and
> let him go emeritis in a few months. What do others think?
>
> -- Owen
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>.
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 10:09 AM, Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
> annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
> Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
> during incubation...
Since this resolution is a one-off, I would suggest putting the anual
rotation in the bylaws that will be part of the project's permanent
website. That will make it more visible and easier for the project to
change it itself.
I agree that Christian hasn't been involved while it is in the
incubator. On the other hand, he was heavily involved before it came
to Apache. Looking at the svn logs, the number of commits (not
contributions) per user is:
148 aching
47 jghoman
37 ckunz
11 claudio
7 exg
5 ssc
4 hyunsik
3 omalley
1 kunzchr
1 jmannix
1 ekoontz
1 asuresh
So Christian only has 1 commit at Apache, but he has 37 prior. Given
that level of involvement, I'd rather put him on the Giraph PMC and
let him go emeritis in a few months. What do others think?
-- Owen
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by Jakob Homan <jg...@gmail.com>.
Looks good. I might suggest adding language to rotate the PMC chair
annually to spread the responsibility around a bit and increase our
Bus Number. Also, I was hoping to have seen Christian a bit more
during incubation...
-Jakob
On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Looking good below.
>
> +1.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> On May 4, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Owen O'Malley wrote:
>
>> All,
>> We need a resolution before we can do the vote on incubator
>> general. The text is pretty boilerplate, but make sure that I got all
>> of the spots fixed and got all of the names right. I've removed Arun
>> Suresh and Phillip Rhodes since they haven't participated in the
>> project while it has been in incubation.
>>
>> -- Owen
>>
>>
>> ## Resolution to create a TLP from graduating Incubator podling
>>
>> X. Establish the Apache Giraph Project
>>
>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>> open-source software related to a highly scaleable, fault-tolerant,
>> Bulk Synchronous Parallel (BSP)-based graph processing framework
>> for distribution at no charge to the public.
>>
>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Giraph Project",
>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>> Foundation; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby is
>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>> related to a distributed computing graph processing framework;
>> and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Giraph" be
>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>> of the Apache Giraph Project, and to have primary responsibility
>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>> responsibility of the Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>> Apache Giraph Project:
>>
>> * Avery Ching <ac...@apache.org>
>> * Claudio Martella <cl...@apache.org>
>> * Dmitriy V. Ryaboy <dv...@apache.org>
>> * Eugene Joseph Koontz <ek...@apache.org>
>> * Hyunsik Choi <hy...@apache.org>
>> * Jakob Homan <jg...@apache.org>
>> * Jake Mannix <jm...@apache.org>
>> * Christian Kunz <ku...@apache.org>
>> * Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>
>> * Sebastian Schelter <ss...@apache.org>
>>
>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Avery Ching
>> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Giraph, to
>> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
>> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
>> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
>> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Giraph PMC be and hereby is
>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>> Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby
>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>> Incubator Giraph podling; and be it further
>>
>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>> Incubator Giraph podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Giraph graduation resolution
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Looking good below.
+1.
Cheers,
Chris
On May 4, 2012, at 9:26 AM, Owen O'Malley wrote:
> All,
> We need a resolution before we can do the vote on incubator
> general. The text is pretty boilerplate, but make sure that I got all
> of the spots fixed and got all of the names right. I've removed Arun
> Suresh and Phillip Rhodes since they haven't participated in the
> project while it has been in incubation.
>
> -- Owen
>
>
> ## Resolution to create a TLP from graduating Incubator podling
>
> X. Establish the Apache Giraph Project
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software related to a highly scaleable, fault-tolerant,
> Bulk Synchronous Parallel (BSP)-based graph processing framework
> for distribution at no charge to the public.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Giraph Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to a distributed computing graph processing framework;
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Giraph" be
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache Giraph Project, and to have primary responsibility
> for management of the projects within the scope of
> responsibility of the Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Giraph Project:
>
> * Avery Ching <ac...@apache.org>
> * Claudio Martella <cl...@apache.org>
> * Dmitriy V. Ryaboy <dv...@apache.org>
> * Eugene Joseph Koontz <ek...@apache.org>
> * Hyunsik Choi <hy...@apache.org>
> * Jakob Homan <jg...@apache.org>
> * Jake Mannix <jm...@apache.org>
> * Christian Kunz <ku...@apache.org>
> * Owen O'Malley <om...@apache.org>
> * Sebastian Schelter <ss...@apache.org>
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Avery Ching
> be appointed to the office of Vice President, Apache Giraph, to
> serve in accordance with and subject to the direction of the
> Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the Foundation until
> death, resignation, retirement, removal or disqualification,
> or until a successor is appointed; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Giraph PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Giraph Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Giraph Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Giraph podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Giraph podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> Project are hereafter discharged.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++