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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> on 2010/05/19 19:23:18 UTC
FW: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Hi Guys,
As directed by the Board, I'm forwarding the below to ask you guys to check out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java library [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any official Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it was ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check with you guys about it.
Please let me know what you think.
Thanks so much.
Cheers,
Chris
[1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
[2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
[3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------ Forwarded Message
From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Hey Guys,
I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
<snip>
this (dependency) license appears to have an
"advertising" clause in it:
http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
</snip>
Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1], so I
wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just send
an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
Thanks a bunch.
Cheers,
Chris
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------ End of Forwarded Message
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Hi Roy,
OK, then it sounds like what the recent emails from you, Justin, and Hen are saying is that if I put in some text on the NOTICE.txt file, then we are all good? Am I reading this right?
If so, what text should I put in there?
Thanks a lot for everyone's help.
Cheers,
Chris
On 5/19/10 3:15 PM, "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com> wrote:
On May 19, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>>
>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>
> As long as the advertising obligations are met by a NOTICE file, I'd
> be fine with permitting them. If it's more than what can be fulfilled
> by NOTICE, I am not as sure...
Exactly -- that's why we have the NOTICE file clauses in our license.
....Roy
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On May 19, 2010, at 10:58 AM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>>
>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>
> As long as the advertising obligations are met by a NOTICE file, I'd
> be fine with permitting them. If it's more than what can be fulfilled
> by NOTICE, I am not as sure...
Exactly -- that's why we have the NOTICE file clauses in our license.
....Roy
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Re: FW: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Justin Erenkrantz
<ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>>
>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>
> As long as the advertising obligations are met by a NOTICE file, I'd
> be fine with permitting them. If it's more than what can be fulfilled
> by NOTICE, I am not as sure...
Good point - need to cleanly separate 'attribution' and 'advertising' concepts.
I like your definition: advertising = attribution outside of the NOTICE/LICENSE.
Hen
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Re: FW: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:51 AM, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>
> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
As long as the advertising obligations are met by a NOTICE file, I'd
be fine with permitting them. If it's more than what can be fulfilled
by NOTICE, I am not as sure...
My $.02. -- justin
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Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Hi Board (and legal-discuss folks):
Apologies for the cross-posting, but I've created and resolved TIKA-432 [1] in r947145 [2] to take care of the issue from the May 2010 board report.
Thanks for the feedback and immediate help!
Cheers,
Chris
[1] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-432
[2] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=947145&view=rev
On 5/21/10 10:35 AM, "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
Thanks, Sam (and all), will do.
Cheers,
Chris
On 5/21/10 7:31 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Hey Roy and Greg,
>
> Thanks for your help and others help on this. What's the verdict? Am I OK
> with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen's earlier comments, or
> should I reach out to the NetCDF'ers and get something in writing as Greg
> put it?
You are OK with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen's earlier comments.
> Thanks for your guidance.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
- Sam Ruby
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Thanks, Sam (and all), will do.
Cheers,
Chris
On 5/21/10 7:31 AM, "Sam Ruby" <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Hey Roy and Greg,
>
> Thanks for your help and others help on this. What's the verdict? Am I OK
> with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen's earlier comments, or
> should I reach out to the NetCDF'ers and get something in writing as Greg
> put it?
You are OK with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen's earlier comments.
> Thanks for your guidance.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
- Sam Ruby
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Hey Roy and Greg,
>
> Thanks for your help and others help on this. What’s the verdict? Am I OK
> with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen’s earlier comments, or
> should I reach out to the NetCDF’ers and get something in writing as Greg
> put it?
You are OK with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen's earlier comments.
> Thanks for your guidance.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
- Sam Ruby
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Hey Roy and Greg,
Thanks for your help and others help on this. What's the verdict? Am I OK with the NOTICE and LICENSE file updates per Hen's earlier comments, or should I reach out to the NetCDF'ers and get something in writing as Greg put it?
Thanks for your guidance.
Cheers,
Chris
On 5/20/10 2:17 AM, "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com> wrote:
Why? Neither one is expressed as a license obligation or clause.
The "request" is easily satisfied, so just satisfy it.
....Roy
On May 20, 2010, at 2:11 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> Chris: thanks for following up on this!
>
> Henri's got all the basics laid out well here, but I think you must
> contact the NetCDF folks for clarification. Get a statement from them
> on what they *intended* with their language. Describe the approach
> that Henri lays out, and ask them, "is this sufficient to meet your
> license's requirements?"
>
> Remember: we're not simply trying to meet the *letter* of their
> license, but also their *intent*. We want to be good people here, and
> to respect their wishes.
>
> I suspect they'll be totally cool with whatever resolution we propose,
> but we *must* ask them so that we know we're following their wishes.
> This "paper trail" will also help should any questions arise in the
> future.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:34, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Ah - publication as in a particular type of documentation (i.e. it's
>> not intended that a website or documentation talking about using
>> Tika's NetCDF related features has to mention UCAR/Unidata).
>>
>> So +1 to this being an attribution license instead of an advertising
>> license. Though if you give them a kick to update their latest
>> releases (4.1, 4.2) with the license on their website [i.e. the 'this
>> is not an obligation'] then it would be a better world.
>>
>> In terms of NOTICE.txt; I go with the following:
>>
>> * If putting in your own source code, then add the 3rd party license
>> text to the end of your LICENSE file and put in the NOTICE:
>>
>> "Copyright 1993-2010 University Corporation for Atmospheric Research/Unidata
>> This software contains code derived from UCAR/Unidata's NetCDF library."
>>
>> If it's an unmodified jar file (or directory, or tar.gz, js file,
>> or...), then I would place their license text next to the jar
>> (netcdf-4.2.license next to netcdf-4.2.jar for example), and I would
>> consider that to satisfy the attribution request.
>>
>> It's a personal style, an alternative is to treat the latter case in
>> the same way as the former.
>>
>> The reason for my latter approach being that if you include a 3rd
>> party work in unmodified form, you are highly likely to update it in
>> the future. In which case you want it to be very obvious that you need
>> to also get an updated license file. If however you incorporate it
>> into your source, it's much less likely and it's better to treat it as
>> akin to your source.
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>> Hi Hen,
>>>
>>> Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with
>>> their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
>>> wouldn't consider that optional.
>>>
>>> I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
>>> case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
>>> Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
>>>> of documents...
>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category
>>>>> X).
>>>>>
>>>>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>>>>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one
>>>>> with:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>>> product that includes this software."
>>>>>
>>>>> or the one with:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>>>>> obligation. "
>>>>>
>>>>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>>>>> is optional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>>>>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hen
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>>>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As directed by the Board, I'm forwarding the below to ask you guys to
>>>>>> check
>>>>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java
>>>>>> library
>>>>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any
>>>>>> official
>>>>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>>>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> you guys about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks so much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>>>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>>>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>>>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>>>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>>>>> </snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1],
>>>>>> so I
>>>>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just
>>>>>> send
>>>>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
Why? Neither one is expressed as a license obligation or clause.
The "request" is easily satisfied, so just satisfy it.
....Roy
On May 20, 2010, at 2:11 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
> Chris: thanks for following up on this!
>
> Henri's got all the basics laid out well here, but I think you must
> contact the NetCDF folks for clarification. Get a statement from them
> on what they *intended* with their language. Describe the approach
> that Henri lays out, and ask them, "is this sufficient to meet your
> license's requirements?"
>
> Remember: we're not simply trying to meet the *letter* of their
> license, but also their *intent*. We want to be good people here, and
> to respect their wishes.
>
> I suspect they'll be totally cool with whatever resolution we propose,
> but we *must* ask them so that we know we're following their wishes.
> This "paper trail" will also help should any questions arise in the
> future.
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:34, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Ah - publication as in a particular type of documentation (i.e. it's
>> not intended that a website or documentation talking about using
>> Tika's NetCDF related features has to mention UCAR/Unidata).
>>
>> So +1 to this being an attribution license instead of an advertising
>> license. Though if you give them a kick to update their latest
>> releases (4.1, 4.2) with the license on their website [i.e. the 'this
>> is not an obligation'] then it would be a better world.
>>
>> In terms of NOTICE.txt; I go with the following:
>>
>> * If putting in your own source code, then add the 3rd party license
>> text to the end of your LICENSE file and put in the NOTICE:
>>
>> "Copyright 1993-2010 University Corporation for Atmospheric Research/Unidata
>> This software contains code derived from UCAR/Unidata's NetCDF library."
>>
>> If it's an unmodified jar file (or directory, or tar.gz, js file,
>> or...), then I would place their license text next to the jar
>> (netcdf-4.2.license next to netcdf-4.2.jar for example), and I would
>> consider that to satisfy the attribution request.
>>
>> It's a personal style, an alternative is to treat the latter case in
>> the same way as the former.
>>
>> The reason for my latter approach being that if you include a 3rd
>> party work in unmodified form, you are highly likely to update it in
>> the future. In which case you want it to be very obvious that you need
>> to also get an updated license file. If however you incorporate it
>> into your source, it's much less likely and it's better to treat it as
>> akin to your source.
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>> Hi Hen,
>>>
>>> Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with
>>> their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
>>> wouldn't consider that optional.
>>>
>>> I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
>>> case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
>>> Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
>>>> of documents...
>>>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category
>>>>> X).
>>>>>
>>>>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>>>>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one
>>>>> with:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>>> product that includes this software."
>>>>>
>>>>> or the one with:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>>>>> obligation. "
>>>>>
>>>>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>>>>> is optional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>>>>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hen
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>>>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As directed by the Board, I’m forwarding the below to ask you guys to
>>>>>> check
>>>>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java
>>>>>> library
>>>>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any
>>>>>> official
>>>>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>>>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> you guys about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks so much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>>>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>>>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>>>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>>>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>>>>> </snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1],
>>>>>> so I
>>>>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just
>>>>>> send
>>>>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Hey Greg,
Thanks to you back for your guidance and positive attitude. I appreciate it!
I'm happy to contact them, but I'd like to hear back from you and Roy (I just sent an email about this) first to determine whether I can simply update NOTICE and LICENSE or if I need to take the step to reach out.
Let me know what you think and thanks!
Cheers,
Chris
On 5/20/10 2:11 AM, "Greg Stein" <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
Chris: thanks for following up on this!
Henri's got all the basics laid out well here, but I think you must
contact the NetCDF folks for clarification. Get a statement from them
on what they *intended* with their language. Describe the approach
that Henri lays out, and ask them, "is this sufficient to meet your
license's requirements?"
Remember: we're not simply trying to meet the *letter* of their
license, but also their *intent*. We want to be good people here, and
to respect their wishes.
I suspect they'll be totally cool with whatever resolution we propose,
but we *must* ask them so that we know we're following their wishes.
This "paper trail" will also help should any questions arise in the
future.
Cheers,
-g
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:34, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> Ah - publication as in a particular type of documentation (i.e. it's
> not intended that a website or documentation talking about using
> Tika's NetCDF related features has to mention UCAR/Unidata).
>
> So +1 to this being an attribution license instead of an advertising
> license. Though if you give them a kick to update their latest
> releases (4.1, 4.2) with the license on their website [i.e. the 'this
> is not an obligation'] then it would be a better world.
>
> In terms of NOTICE.txt; I go with the following:
>
> * If putting in your own source code, then add the 3rd party license
> text to the end of your LICENSE file and put in the NOTICE:
>
> "Copyright 1993-2010 University Corporation for Atmospheric Research/Unidata
> This software contains code derived from UCAR/Unidata's NetCDF library."
>
> If it's an unmodified jar file (or directory, or tar.gz, js file,
> or...), then I would place their license text next to the jar
> (netcdf-4.2.license next to netcdf-4.2.jar for example), and I would
> consider that to satisfy the attribution request.
>
> It's a personal style, an alternative is to treat the latter case in
> the same way as the former.
>
> The reason for my latter approach being that if you include a 3rd
> party work in unmodified form, you are highly likely to update it in
> the future. In which case you want it to be very obvious that you need
> to also get an updated license file. If however you incorporate it
> into your source, it's much less likely and it's better to treat it as
> akin to your source.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Hen
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Hi Hen,
>>
>> Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with
>> their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
>> wouldn't consider that optional.
>>
>> I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
>> case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
>> Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
>>> of documents...
>>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>
>>>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category
>>>> X).
>>>>
>>>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>>>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>>>
>>>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one
>>>> with:
>>>>
>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>> product that includes this software."
>>>>
>>>> or the one with:
>>>>
>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>>>> obligation. "
>>>>
>>>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>>>> is optional.
>>>>
>>>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>>>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> As directed by the Board, I'm forwarding the below to ask you guys to
>>>>> check
>>>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java
>>>>> library
>>>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any
>>>>> official
>>>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it
>>>>> was
>>>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check
>>>>> with
>>>>> you guys about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>>>
>>>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>>>> </snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1],
>>>>> so I
>>>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just
>>>>> send
>>>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
Chris: thanks for following up on this!
Henri's got all the basics laid out well here, but I think you must
contact the NetCDF folks for clarification. Get a statement from them
on what they *intended* with their language. Describe the approach
that Henri lays out, and ask them, "is this sufficient to meet your
license's requirements?"
Remember: we're not simply trying to meet the *letter* of their
license, but also their *intent*. We want to be good people here, and
to respect their wishes.
I suspect they'll be totally cool with whatever resolution we propose,
but we *must* ask them so that we know we're following their wishes.
This "paper trail" will also help should any questions arise in the
future.
Cheers,
-g
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:34, Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> Ah - publication as in a particular type of documentation (i.e. it's
> not intended that a website or documentation talking about using
> Tika's NetCDF related features has to mention UCAR/Unidata).
>
> So +1 to this being an attribution license instead of an advertising
> license. Though if you give them a kick to update their latest
> releases (4.1, 4.2) with the license on their website [i.e. the 'this
> is not an obligation'] then it would be a better world.
>
> In terms of NOTICE.txt; I go with the following:
>
> * If putting in your own source code, then add the 3rd party license
> text to the end of your LICENSE file and put in the NOTICE:
>
> "Copyright 1993-2010 University Corporation for Atmospheric Research/Unidata
> This software contains code derived from UCAR/Unidata's NetCDF library."
>
> If it's an unmodified jar file (or directory, or tar.gz, js file,
> or...), then I would place their license text next to the jar
> (netcdf-4.2.license next to netcdf-4.2.jar for example), and I would
> consider that to satisfy the attribution request.
>
> It's a personal style, an alternative is to treat the latter case in
> the same way as the former.
>
> The reason for my latter approach being that if you include a 3rd
> party work in unmodified form, you are highly likely to update it in
> the future. In which case you want it to be very obvious that you need
> to also get an updated license file. If however you incorporate it
> into your source, it's much less likely and it's better to treat it as
> akin to your source.
>
> YMMV.
>
> Hen
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Hi Hen,
>>
>> Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with
>> their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
>> wouldn't consider that optional.
>>
>> I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
>> case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
>> Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
>>> of documents...
>>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>>
>>>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category
>>>> X).
>>>>
>>>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>>>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>>>
>>>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one
>>>> with:
>>>>
>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>> product that includes this software."
>>>>
>>>> or the one with:
>>>>
>>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>>>> obligation. "
>>>>
>>>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>>>> is optional.
>>>>
>>>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>>>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>>>
>>>> Hen
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> As directed by the Board, I’m forwarding the below to ask you guys to
>>>>> check
>>>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java
>>>>> library
>>>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any
>>>>> official
>>>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it
>>>>> was
>>>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check
>>>>> with
>>>>> you guys about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks so much.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>>>
>>>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>>>> </snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1],
>>>>> so I
>>>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just
>>>>> send
>>>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>>>
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
Ah - publication as in a particular type of documentation (i.e. it's
not intended that a website or documentation talking about using
Tika's NetCDF related features has to mention UCAR/Unidata).
So +1 to this being an attribution license instead of an advertising
license. Though if you give them a kick to update their latest
releases (4.1, 4.2) with the license on their website [i.e. the 'this
is not an obligation'] then it would be a better world.
In terms of NOTICE.txt; I go with the following:
* If putting in your own source code, then add the 3rd party license
text to the end of your LICENSE file and put in the NOTICE:
"Copyright 1993-2010 University Corporation for Atmospheric Research/Unidata
This software contains code derived from UCAR/Unidata's NetCDF library."
If it's an unmodified jar file (or directory, or tar.gz, js file,
or...), then I would place their license text next to the jar
(netcdf-4.2.license next to netcdf-4.2.jar for example), and I would
consider that to satisfy the attribution request.
It's a personal style, an alternative is to treat the latter case in
the same way as the former.
The reason for my latter approach being that if you include a 3rd
party work in unmodified form, you are highly likely to update it in
the future. In which case you want it to be very obvious that you need
to also get an updated license file. If however you incorporate it
into your source, it's much less likely and it's better to treat it as
akin to your source.
YMMV.
Hen
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Hi Hen,
>
> Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with
> their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
>
>
> On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
> wouldn't consider that optional.
>
> I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
> case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
> Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
>
> Hen
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
>> of documents...
>> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>>
>>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category
>>> X).
>>>
>>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>>
>>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one
>>> with:
>>>
>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>> product that includes this software."
>>>
>>> or the one with:
>>>
>>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>>> obligation. "
>>>
>>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>>> is optional.
>>>
>>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>>
>>> Hen
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>
>>>> As directed by the Board, I’m forwarding the below to ask you guys to
>>>> check
>>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java
>>>> library
>>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any
>>>> official
>>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it
>>>> was
>>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check
>>>> with
>>>> you guys about it.
>>>>
>>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>>
>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>>
>>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>>
>>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>>> </snip>
>>>>
>>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>>
>>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>>
>>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1],
>>>> so I
>>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just
>>>> send
>>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>>
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Hi Hen,
Yep, I think they are more concerned with scientific publications made with their software than anything else like I said in my earlier email.
Cheers,
Chris
On 5/19/10 12:31 PM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
wouldn't consider that optional.
I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
Hen
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
> of documents...
> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>>
>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>
>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one with:
>>
>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>> product that includes this software."
>>
>> or the one with:
>>
>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>> obligation. "
>>
>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>> is optional.
>>
>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> As directed by the Board, I'm forwarding the below to ask you guys to check
>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java library
>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any official
>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it was
>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check with
>>> you guys about it.
>>>
>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>
>>> Hey Guys,
>>>
>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>
>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>> </snip>
>>>
>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>
>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>
>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1], so I
>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>
>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just send
>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
I pondered that, but I think 'request' as a word is firm enough that I
wouldn't consider that optional.
I suspect however that they added 'not an obligation' later, in which
case I think it shows intent for 'request' to be optional. Hoping
Chris can winnow out a story behind the history here.
Hen
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
> I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
> of documents...
> On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
>
>> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>>
>> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
>> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>>
>> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one with:
>>
>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>> product that includes this software."
>>
>> or the one with:
>>
>> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
>> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
>> product that includes this software, although this is not an
>> obligation. "
>>
>> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
>> is optional.
>>
>> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
>> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>>
>> Hen
>>
>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
>> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>> Hi Guys,
>>>
>>> As directed by the Board, I’m forwarding the below to ask you guys to check
>>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java library
>>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any official
>>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it was
>>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check with
>>> you guys about it.
>>>
>>> Please let me know what you think.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Forwarded Message
>>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>>
>>> Hey Guys,
>>>
>>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>>
>>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>>
>>>
>>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>>> </snip>
>>>
>>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>>
>>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>>
>>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1], so I
>>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>>
>>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just send
>>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>>
>>> Thanks a bunch.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>>
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>> Senior Computer Scientist
>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@apache.org>.
I guess the crux is what does "request" mean in these types
of documents...
On May 19, 2010, at 1:51 PM, Henri Yandell wrote:
> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>
> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>
> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one with:
>
> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
> product that includes this software."
>
> or the one with:
>
> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
> product that includes this software, although this is not an
> obligation. "
>
> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
> is optional.
>
> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>
> Hen
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> As directed by the Board, I’m forwarding the below to ask you guys to check
>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java library
>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any official
>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it was
>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check with
>> you guys about it.
>>
>> Please let me know what you think.
>>
>> Thanks so much.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> ------ Forwarded Message
>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>
>> <snip>
>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>
>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>
>>
>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>
>>
>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>> </snip>
>>
>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>
>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>
>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1], so I
>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>
>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just send
>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.
Hi Hen,
Thanks for the feedback. I would think that the one that is linked directly
off of the NetCDF-java one applies. This page [1] says:
The library is freely available and the source code is released under the
(MIT-style) netCDF C library license [2]. If you check out [2], it says:
<snip>
Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any publications
that result from the use of this software or in any product that includes
this software, although this is not an obligation.
</snip>
Working with scientific data, this is pretty traditional as the centers like
NOAA, NASA, etc., are looking to have their software mentioned when
scientists use it to generate the cool charts in their papers :)
However, I'm not a lawyer so I'll let you guys help me decide (and sneaking
ahead to the later replies, it looks like we may be OK with a NOTICE.txt
mention).
Thanks,
Chris
[1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
[2] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
On 5/19/10 10:51 AM, "Henri Yandell" <ba...@apache.org> wrote:
> My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
>
> That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
> OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
>
> The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one with:
>
> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
> product that includes this software."
>
> or the one with:
>
> "Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
> publications that result from the use of this software or in any
> product that includes this software, although this is not an
> obligation. "
>
> The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
> is optional.
>
> Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
> of the download while the latter is on the website?
>
> Hen
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
> <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>> Hi Guys,
>>
>> As directed by the Board, I¹m forwarding the below to ask you guys to check
>> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java library
>> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any official
>> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
>> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it was
>> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check with
>> you guys about it.
>>
>> Please let me know what you think.
>>
>> Thanks so much.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
>> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
>> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>> ------ Forwarded Message
>> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
>> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
>> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
>> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
>> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>>
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>>
>> <snip>
>> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>>
>> "advertising" clause in it:
>>
>>
>> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>>
>>
>> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
>> </snip>
>>
>> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>>
>> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>>
>> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1], so I
>> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>>
>> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just send
>> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>>
>> Thanks a bunch.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>> Senior Computer Scientist
>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
>> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: legal-discuss-unsubscribe@apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: legal-discuss-help@apache.org
>
>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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Re: FW: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@apache.org>.
My gut is that mandatory advertising clause licenses are out (Category X).
That would include Apache Software License 1.0 (barely used), and
OpenSSL (fork of ASL 1.0).
The issue here would appear to be which license applies. Is it the one with:
"Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
publications that result from the use of this software or in any
product that includes this software."
or the one with:
"Further, UCAR requests that the user credit UCAR/Unidata in any
publications that result from the use of this software or in any
product that includes this software, although this is not an
obligation. "
The former would count as a mandatory advertising clause, the latter
is optional.
Can you work out which license applies Chris? Is the former coming out
of the download while the latter is on the website?
Hen
On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Mattmann, Chris A (388J)
<ch...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> As directed by the Board, I’m forwarding the below to ask you guys to check
> out the NetCDF NCAR license. Apache Tika is using the NetCDF Java library
> [1] as part of TIKA-400 [2], which has yet to be released in any official
> Tika version, but is part of the 0.8 trunk currently in development. I
> believed that since the license claimed to be MIT compatible [3] that it was
> ASL friendly, but Greg Stein raised the issue below, so wanted to check with
> you guys about it.
>
> Please let me know what you think.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> [1] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf-java/
> [2] http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-400
> [3] http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>
> Reply-To: <bo...@apache.org>
> Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:57:05 -0700
> To: ASF Board <bo...@apache.org>
> Subject: [May 2010 Board Meeting] Apache Tika report comment
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I noticed the following comment on the Tika report:
>
> <snip>
> this (dependency) license appears to have an
>
> "advertising" clause in it:
>
>
> http://svn.unidata.ucar.edu/repos/thredds/trunk/cdm/license.txt
>
>
> jj: Have them follup-up w/ legal.
> </snip>
>
> Is the license referenced by Greg above the same one as this?
>
> http://www.unidata.ucar.edu/software/netcdf/copyright.html
>
> That's the only one I could find on NetCDF as I noted in TIKA-399 [1], so I
> wasn't sure where the one from the repo above came from.
>
> I'd be happy to follow up with legal though -- how do I do that? Just send
> an email to legal@apache.org and ask them to review the license?
>
> Thanks a bunch.
>
> Cheers,
> Chris
>
> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TIKA-399
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
> Senior Computer Scientist
> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
> Email: Chris.Mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov
> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message
>
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