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Posted to dev@diversity.apache.org by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> on 2019/06/21 17:56:04 UTC
Representational intern experience
On 2019/06/21 13:37:01, Naomi S <n....@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> agreed. my proposal (currently being drafted) goes into detail on this>
> matter. but we don’t want to use Outreachy to inflate our demographics one>
> internship at a time>
>
> we want to gather and synthesize the knowledge we gain through running an>
> internship program w ppl from under represented groups so that we can>
> publish recommendations that projects across the foundation can use (with>
> support from us on duscuss@diversity) to make their projects more welcoming>
> and safe and inclusive, and ultimately, more attractive to contribute to>
>
Agreed that that is a great desire and that should that happen,
the information would be incredibly useful. One issue I have,
which I have mentioned before, is the only way to get valuable data
is to have these interns interact with "typical" ASF projects by
producing code. The more offset-from-typical their engagement and interactions
are, the less applicable they are to those projects that we hope to
provide insight and guidance towards. In other words, for this engagement
to have truly valuable insight, enough to warrant the expense (IMO),
interns 'must' be creating code for a representative Apache project.
Otherwise, that data set is tainted with unknown applicability to
the problem set we are trying to correct.
Of course, there are 2 big issues with that:
1. We are paying for code development.
2. The proposals I saw were using ASF projects such as Whimsy
as the project these interns would be working with/for.
Now we are trying to justify #1 by using #2... that is, there is
a train of thought that because what we are 'really' doing is
paying for operations code, and we do that 'all the time', that
the "not paying for code development" tenet doesn't apply.
The issue is that this significantly alters the experience and
engagement enough, IMO, that any data and findings from it, will
be so different from a more typical, representative ASF project that
it will be useless or, just as likely, be ignored by ASF projects because
of its difference.
Yes, it will allow D&I to watch and learn, but what they are
watching and learning is so fundamentally different from the kinds
of typical ASF projects that it's like watching curling to learn
how to bowl.
This effort should have real, tangible benefits, for the sponsor, for
the ASF and for the intern. From what I can see, intern would get some
"exposure" about open source and Apache, but very, very, very little that
would be directly 'admissible' to typical ASF projects, and open source.
The ASF would get data that could be easily and readily dismissed, and
thus do very little to provide guidance and insights on how to correct
D&I. And the sponsor would be paying for something that, at the end of
the day, does not accomplish the real end goal.
And finally:
How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
interns from under-represented populations and having them work
on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Sage Sharp <sh...@otter.technology>.
It's generally asked that coordinators for the community select which
interns should be funded by the sponsors, and which interns should be
reviewed by the Outreachy organizers. If you apply the criteria I defined
in the previous mail, the community coordinators would be picking interns
to fund based on whether the applicant has a good chance at having a
successful internship. If you have many strong applicants, you can apply
for the Outreachy general fund.
When evaluating general funding requests, we sometimes have too many
requests than we have funding for. In that case, we first ask the sponsors
whether they can fund additional interns. We typically only fund one
additional intern per community. That's true even if two communities are
funded by the same sponsor.
Outreachy general funds are somewhat limited. This round, we sponsored five
interns from Outreachy general funds.
I hope that gives you some idea of how asking for additional interns would
work. Let me know if you have more questions.
Sage Sharp
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sage Sharp <sh...@otter.technology> wrote:
> Sorry, hit send too soon! More in a bit.
>
> Sage Sharp
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sage Sharp <sh...@otter.technology>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Myrle,
>>
>> I understand the concern about trying to remain neutral among member
>> projects. It is possible to list more projects than you have funding for.
>> Many other communities have done this before. For example, last round the
>> F# Software Foundation listed four projects when they only had funding for
>> one intern.
>>
>> If the project mentors want to select more interns than the community has
>> funding for, they can apply for Outreachy general funds. We evaluate
>> requests for Outreachy general funds across all participating communities.
>> Our goal is to ensure that the interns we fund have the best chance of
>> success. Our criteria is:
>>
>> - Has the mentor selected two interns? If so, we won't let them
>> mentor two interns at once. They would have to find a co-mentor. Even then,
>> we really only recommend mentoring two interns if the mentor has
>> participated in a mentorship program before. We want to make sure they know
>> how much work it can be before signing up to mentor two interns!
>> - What is the quality of the contributions the applicant has made
>> during the contributions phase? If they made a substantial contribution
>> that's more important than a set of easier contributions. An applicant who
>> refactored code or wrote a chunk of documentation would be chosen over
>> someone who fixed typos. The goal is to ensure the applicant has the skills
>> needed for the project.
>> - How did the mentor rate the applicant's strength? We ask mentors to
>> rate applicants:
>> (AMAZING, '5 - Amazing - multiple large, high-quality
>> contributions'),(STRONG, '4 - Strong - at least one large, high-quality
>> contribution'),
>> (GOOD, '3 - Good - some smaller contributions of good
>> quality'),
>> (UNLIKELY, '2 - Inexperienced - smaller contributions that
>> vary in quality'),
>> (NOTGOOD, '1 - Struggling - applicant did not understand
>> instructions or feedback'),
>> - Does the applicant have enough time free from full-time
>> commitments? We require that applicants be available for 49 out of 91 days
>> during the internship period. However, if someone has the minimum amount of
>> time free, we take a hard look again at their contributions. They need to
>> be stronger, larger contributions in that case. We want to be sure they're
>>
>>
>> It's also important to evaluate which projects would be most supportive
>> of retaining a diverse group of interns.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 8:12 AM Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Sage,
>>>
>>> One of the concerns that was raised is that the ASF, by both providing
>>> funds, and picking one project might be "picking winners". Our
>>> neutrality
>>> has been very important to our success in attracting and supporting open
>>> source projects. It is at least possible that more projects than we
>>> could
>>> provide funding for might be interested in mentoring an Outreachy intern
>>> and benefiting from their efforts. This would raise the question of how
>>> to
>>> remain neutral while still providing funds for an Outreachy internship.
>>>
>>> One approach to solving this problem which currently seems to be favored,
>>> is to not fund Outreachy internships. We could ask a sponsor to do this
>>> on
>>> our behalf. But, if we can't find a sponsor to donate to Outreachy, that
>>> could mean that we cannot do Outreachy internships. Companies which
>>> donate
>>> to the ASF may not necessary be willing to donate to Outreachy because of
>>> criteria unrelated to the purpose of the money.
>>>
>>> So here comes my first question: If we have too many potential projects,
>>> would it be possible to ask Outreachy to do the picking based on your
>>> criteria? If yes, what would your criteria be? Depending on what those
>>> criteria are, this could potentially be a way to help us preserve our
>>> neutrality.
>>>
>>> Direct impact on our diversity statistics can't be our goal in
>>> participating in Outreachy; we're too big for that. Instead, one of the
>>> hopes that has been expressed with respect to hosting an Outreachy intern
>>> is that we'll be able to follow their progress and learn from the
>>> problems
>>> they encounter, so that we can figure out what's keeping people out of
>>> our
>>> communities and tackle those underlying problems. That knowledge will
>>> have
>>> to be transferable across our projects.
>>>
>>> So here comes my second question, Sage: From your e-mail, this seems
>>> like a
>>> reasonable approach, but I'd love to hear you address this specifically.
>>> Have you seen other communities do this successfully? Can you put us in
>>> contact with them to learn from their experiences?
>>>
>>> Thank you for coming to our list to answer questions. I very much
>>> appreciate your time.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Myrle Krantz
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:23 PM sharp@otter.technology
>>> <sh...@otter.technology> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi folks,
>>> >
>>> > I'm Sage Sharp, an Outreachy organizer. I'm happy to answer questions
>>> > people have about our program.
>>> >
>>> > I'm trying to read up on several email threads, so I may not have all
>>> the
>>> > information about what the ASF is proposing. From what I understand,
>>> ASF is
>>> > considering being an Outreachy sponsor. It looks like the proposal is
>>> to
>>> > have six interns working on various ASF member projects. [1]
>>> >
>>> > Please note that Outreachy projects don't have to be coding projects.
>>> They
>>> > could be projects related to design, user experience, translation, and
>>> more.
>>> >
>>> > The question then posed was:
>>> >
>>> > > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
>>> > > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
>>> > > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
>>> > > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
>>> >
>>> > As to your question, Outreachy is a completely separate internship
>>> > program. The Outreachy interns are independent contractors under
>>> > Outreachy's fiscal sponsor, the Software Freedom Conservancy. They
>>> would
>>> > not be ASF employees or contactors. ASF would be providing a
>>> tax-deductible
>>> > donation to Software Freedom Conservancy to cover the $5,500 intern
>>> > stipend, $500 travel stipend, and a $500 accounting fee for each intern
>>> > working on an ASF project.
>>> >
>>> > One of the benefits of participating in Outreachy is that your free
>>> > software community gets exposed to people from marginalized groups in
>>> tech.
>>> > Every internship round, 800 to 1,000 people have their Outreachy
>>> initial
>>> > application approved. The contribution period allows applicants to make
>>> > solid contributions to your project. Even if you only select one
>>> intern,
>>> > you have the chance to introduce your project to many applicants who
>>> may
>>> > have never heard of it before.
>>> >
>>> > Even submitting a project to the Outreachy website may help mentors
>>> > understand some of the issues newcomers face. The website tries to
>>> > eliminate common barriers that newcomers face like not understanding
>>> what
>>> > IRC is, not being able to find a mentor to contact, not being able to
>>> find
>>> > a newcomer friendly issue to work on. Mentors have reported that even
>>> the
>>> > act of signing up has helped them see places where their project
>>> > documentation needs improving.
>>> >
>>> > Outreachy also provides interns a structure that is lacking in many
>>> > contract positions. I've identified major pain points that happen
>>> during
>>> > the internship and developed a system for removing those issues. The
>>> > structure consists of: feedback check-ins, a chance for interns to
>>> connect
>>> > with each other, and support for finding a job in free software after
>>> the
>>> > internship.
>>> >
>>> > *Feedback and check-ins*: We have three points during the internship
>>> where
>>> > mentors and interns independently give feedback on each other. The
>>> > Outreachy organizers look over that feedback and make sure the
>>> internship
>>> > is progressing smoothly. If needed, we facilitate conversations
>>> between the
>>> > mentors and interns.
>>> >
>>> > *Connecting interns*: We also have a private chat server where
>>> Outreachy
>>> > interns can connect to each other. Being able to connect with other
>>> interns
>>> > from other projects is essential to not feeling alone. We also have a
>>> > series of emails and chat sessions which guide interns through common
>>> > problems they experience during the internship.
>>> >
>>> > For instance, the first chat we do is one where mentors and interns
>>> share
>>> > what they've been struggling with. This normalizes the fact that
>>> everyone
>>> > struggles, and that it's okay to reach out for help. People who are
>>> interns
>>> > for the first time often need this type of reassurance.
>>> >
>>> > *Support for finding a free software job*: Outreachy also provides a
>>> job
>>> > opportunities to alums and a travel stipend for attending free software
>>> > events. This round, we're looking into providing interviewing
>>> workshops and
>>> > resume review.
>>> >
>>> > Outreachy organizers are very experienced at supporting people from
>>> > marginalized groups in tech. We've had over 500 interns. If your
>>> community
>>> > is looking to increase its diversity, Outreachy is a good way to do so.
>>> >
>>> > Communities like Debian, Ceph, GNOME, OpenStack, the Linux kernel, and
>>> > Wikimedia have been participating in Outreachy for years. OpenStack
>>> and the
>>> > Linux kernel saw a marked increase around in the number of women
>>> > participants when they started participating in Outreachy. You can see
>>> some
>>> > of the communities that have participated before by looking at our past
>>> > round page:
>>> >
>>> > https://www.outreachy.org/past-projects/
>>> >
>>> > Let me know what other questions you have!
>>> >
>>> > Sage Sharp
>>> > Outreachy Organizer
>>> >
>>> > [1]
>>> >
>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a02217bcc050fe713d33fe73fa14503c173db92a1e1a6c0b174a338c@%3Cdev.diversity.apache.org%3E
>>> >
>>> > On 2019/06/21 21:18:21, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com
>>> .INVALID>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > A colleague at day job is an Outreachy organizer. My understanding
>>> was
>>> > that she had joined the diversity list for this reason. Let me see if
>>> they
>>> > are having issues or are simply waiting for a moment at which they can
>>> be
>>> > productive
>>> > >
>>> > > ________________________________
>>> > > From: Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
>>> > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:06 PM
>>> > > To: dev@diversity.apache.org
>>> > > Subject: Re: Representational intern experience
>>> > >
>>> > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > And finally:
>>> > > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
>>> > > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
>>> > > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
>>> > > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
>>> > >
>>> > > I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following
>>> request:
>>> > >
>>> > > - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
>>> > > and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
>>> > > following question was raised:
>>> > >
>>> > > "How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
>>> > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
>>> > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
>>> > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
>>> > >
>>> > > This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fb5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3%40%253Cdev.diversity.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=eF1QUuBiyEhBHKoRW6n0cfsJh3UeDK5fUxNTqYPvH0Y%3D&reserved=0
>>> > >
>>> > > Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
>>> > > answer a few questions people might have?
>>> > >
>>> > > - Sam Ruby
>>> > >
>>> > > - - -
>>> > >
>>> > > - Sam Ruby
>>> > >
>>> > > [1]
>>> >
>>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outreachy.org%2Fcontact%2Forganizers%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=sgBfBRjyM%2BFYVBmQyMIUZyV7OfwtVRmJcJRAiMaA3YI%3D&reserved=0
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Sage Sharp <sh...@otter.technology>.
Sorry, hit send too soon! More in a bit.
Sage Sharp
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sage Sharp <sh...@otter.technology> wrote:
> Hi Myrle,
>
> I understand the concern about trying to remain neutral among member
> projects. It is possible to list more projects than you have funding for.
> Many other communities have done this before. For example, last round the
> F# Software Foundation listed four projects when they only had funding for
> one intern.
>
> If the project mentors want to select more interns than the community has
> funding for, they can apply for Outreachy general funds. We evaluate
> requests for Outreachy general funds across all participating communities.
> Our goal is to ensure that the interns we fund have the best chance of
> success. Our criteria is:
>
> - Has the mentor selected two interns? If so, we won't let them mentor
> two interns at once. They would have to find a co-mentor. Even then, we
> really only recommend mentoring two interns if the mentor has participated
> in a mentorship program before. We want to make sure they know how much
> work it can be before signing up to mentor two interns!
> - What is the quality of the contributions the applicant has made
> during the contributions phase? If they made a substantial contribution
> that's more important than a set of easier contributions. An applicant who
> refactored code or wrote a chunk of documentation would be chosen over
> someone who fixed typos. The goal is to ensure the applicant has the skills
> needed for the project.
> - How did the mentor rate the applicant's strength? We ask mentors to
> rate applicants:
> (AMAZING, '5 - Amazing - multiple large, high-quality
> contributions'),(STRONG, '4 - Strong - at least one large, high-quality
> contribution'),
> (GOOD, '3 - Good - some smaller contributions of good
> quality'),
> (UNLIKELY, '2 - Inexperienced - smaller contributions that
> vary in quality'),
> (NOTGOOD, '1 - Struggling - applicant did not understand
> instructions or feedback'),
> - Does the applicant have enough time free from full-time commitments?
> We require that applicants be available for 49 out of 91 days during the
> internship period. However, if someone has the minimum amount of time free,
> we take a hard look again at their contributions. They need to be stronger,
> larger contributions in that case. We want to be sure they're
>
>
> It's also important to evaluate which projects would be most supportive of
> retaining a diverse group of interns.
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 8:12 AM Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello Sage,
>>
>> One of the concerns that was raised is that the ASF, by both providing
>> funds, and picking one project might be "picking winners". Our neutrality
>> has been very important to our success in attracting and supporting open
>> source projects. It is at least possible that more projects than we could
>> provide funding for might be interested in mentoring an Outreachy intern
>> and benefiting from their efforts. This would raise the question of how
>> to
>> remain neutral while still providing funds for an Outreachy internship.
>>
>> One approach to solving this problem which currently seems to be favored,
>> is to not fund Outreachy internships. We could ask a sponsor to do this
>> on
>> our behalf. But, if we can't find a sponsor to donate to Outreachy, that
>> could mean that we cannot do Outreachy internships. Companies which
>> donate
>> to the ASF may not necessary be willing to donate to Outreachy because of
>> criteria unrelated to the purpose of the money.
>>
>> So here comes my first question: If we have too many potential projects,
>> would it be possible to ask Outreachy to do the picking based on your
>> criteria? If yes, what would your criteria be? Depending on what those
>> criteria are, this could potentially be a way to help us preserve our
>> neutrality.
>>
>> Direct impact on our diversity statistics can't be our goal in
>> participating in Outreachy; we're too big for that. Instead, one of the
>> hopes that has been expressed with respect to hosting an Outreachy intern
>> is that we'll be able to follow their progress and learn from the problems
>> they encounter, so that we can figure out what's keeping people out of our
>> communities and tackle those underlying problems. That knowledge will
>> have
>> to be transferable across our projects.
>>
>> So here comes my second question, Sage: From your e-mail, this seems like
>> a
>> reasonable approach, but I'd love to hear you address this specifically.
>> Have you seen other communities do this successfully? Can you put us in
>> contact with them to learn from their experiences?
>>
>> Thank you for coming to our list to answer questions. I very much
>> appreciate your time.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Myrle Krantz
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:23 PM sharp@otter.technology
>> <sh...@otter.technology> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi folks,
>> >
>> > I'm Sage Sharp, an Outreachy organizer. I'm happy to answer questions
>> > people have about our program.
>> >
>> > I'm trying to read up on several email threads, so I may not have all
>> the
>> > information about what the ASF is proposing. From what I understand,
>> ASF is
>> > considering being an Outreachy sponsor. It looks like the proposal is to
>> > have six interns working on various ASF member projects. [1]
>> >
>> > Please note that Outreachy projects don't have to be coding projects.
>> They
>> > could be projects related to design, user experience, translation, and
>> more.
>> >
>> > The question then posed was:
>> >
>> > > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
>> > > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
>> > > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
>> > > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
>> >
>> > As to your question, Outreachy is a completely separate internship
>> > program. The Outreachy interns are independent contractors under
>> > Outreachy's fiscal sponsor, the Software Freedom Conservancy. They would
>> > not be ASF employees or contactors. ASF would be providing a
>> tax-deductible
>> > donation to Software Freedom Conservancy to cover the $5,500 intern
>> > stipend, $500 travel stipend, and a $500 accounting fee for each intern
>> > working on an ASF project.
>> >
>> > One of the benefits of participating in Outreachy is that your free
>> > software community gets exposed to people from marginalized groups in
>> tech.
>> > Every internship round, 800 to 1,000 people have their Outreachy initial
>> > application approved. The contribution period allows applicants to make
>> > solid contributions to your project. Even if you only select one intern,
>> > you have the chance to introduce your project to many applicants who may
>> > have never heard of it before.
>> >
>> > Even submitting a project to the Outreachy website may help mentors
>> > understand some of the issues newcomers face. The website tries to
>> > eliminate common barriers that newcomers face like not understanding
>> what
>> > IRC is, not being able to find a mentor to contact, not being able to
>> find
>> > a newcomer friendly issue to work on. Mentors have reported that even
>> the
>> > act of signing up has helped them see places where their project
>> > documentation needs improving.
>> >
>> > Outreachy also provides interns a structure that is lacking in many
>> > contract positions. I've identified major pain points that happen during
>> > the internship and developed a system for removing those issues. The
>> > structure consists of: feedback check-ins, a chance for interns to
>> connect
>> > with each other, and support for finding a job in free software after
>> the
>> > internship.
>> >
>> > *Feedback and check-ins*: We have three points during the internship
>> where
>> > mentors and interns independently give feedback on each other. The
>> > Outreachy organizers look over that feedback and make sure the
>> internship
>> > is progressing smoothly. If needed, we facilitate conversations between
>> the
>> > mentors and interns.
>> >
>> > *Connecting interns*: We also have a private chat server where Outreachy
>> > interns can connect to each other. Being able to connect with other
>> interns
>> > from other projects is essential to not feeling alone. We also have a
>> > series of emails and chat sessions which guide interns through common
>> > problems they experience during the internship.
>> >
>> > For instance, the first chat we do is one where mentors and interns
>> share
>> > what they've been struggling with. This normalizes the fact that
>> everyone
>> > struggles, and that it's okay to reach out for help. People who are
>> interns
>> > for the first time often need this type of reassurance.
>> >
>> > *Support for finding a free software job*: Outreachy also provides a job
>> > opportunities to alums and a travel stipend for attending free software
>> > events. This round, we're looking into providing interviewing workshops
>> and
>> > resume review.
>> >
>> > Outreachy organizers are very experienced at supporting people from
>> > marginalized groups in tech. We've had over 500 interns. If your
>> community
>> > is looking to increase its diversity, Outreachy is a good way to do so.
>> >
>> > Communities like Debian, Ceph, GNOME, OpenStack, the Linux kernel, and
>> > Wikimedia have been participating in Outreachy for years. OpenStack and
>> the
>> > Linux kernel saw a marked increase around in the number of women
>> > participants when they started participating in Outreachy. You can see
>> some
>> > of the communities that have participated before by looking at our past
>> > round page:
>> >
>> > https://www.outreachy.org/past-projects/
>> >
>> > Let me know what other questions you have!
>> >
>> > Sage Sharp
>> > Outreachy Organizer
>> >
>> > [1]
>> >
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a02217bcc050fe713d33fe73fa14503c173db92a1e1a6c0b174a338c@%3Cdev.diversity.apache.org%3E
>> >
>> > On 2019/06/21 21:18:21, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com
>> .INVALID>
>> > wrote:
>> > > A colleague at day job is an Outreachy organizer. My understanding was
>> > that she had joined the diversity list for this reason. Let me see if
>> they
>> > are having issues or are simply waiting for a moment at which they can
>> be
>> > productive
>> > >
>> > > ________________________________
>> > > From: Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
>> > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:06 PM
>> > > To: dev@diversity.apache.org
>> > > Subject: Re: Representational intern experience
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > And finally:
>> > > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
>> > > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
>> > > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
>> > > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
>> > >
>> > > I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following
>> request:
>> > >
>> > > - - -
>> > >
>> > > The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
>> > > and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
>> > > following question was raised:
>> > >
>> > > "How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
>> > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
>> > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
>> > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
>> > >
>> > > This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fb5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3%40%253Cdev.diversity.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=eF1QUuBiyEhBHKoRW6n0cfsJh3UeDK5fUxNTqYPvH0Y%3D&reserved=0
>> > >
>> > > Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
>> > > answer a few questions people might have?
>> > >
>> > > - Sam Ruby
>> > >
>> > > - - -
>> > >
>> > > - Sam Ruby
>> > >
>> > > [1]
>> >
>> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outreachy.org%2Fcontact%2Forganizers%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=sgBfBRjyM%2BFYVBmQyMIUZyV7OfwtVRmJcJRAiMaA3YI%3D&reserved=0
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Sage Sharp <sh...@otter.technology>.
Hi Myrle,
I understand the concern about trying to remain neutral among member
projects. It is possible to list more projects than you have funding for.
Many other communities have done this before. For example, last round the
F# Software Foundation listed four projects when they only had funding for
one intern.
If the project mentors want to select more interns than the community has
funding for, they can apply for Outreachy general funds. We evaluate
requests for Outreachy general funds across all participating communities.
Our goal is to ensure that the interns we fund have the best chance of
success. Our criteria is:
- Has the mentor selected two interns? If so, we won't let them mentor
two interns at once. They would have to find a co-mentor. Even then, we
really only recommend mentoring two interns if the mentor has participated
in a mentorship program before. We want to make sure they know how much
work it can be before signing up to mentor two interns!
- What is the quality of the contributions the applicant has made during
the contributions phase? If they made a substantial contribution that's
more important than a set of easier contributions. An applicant who
refactored code or wrote a chunk of documentation would be chosen over
someone who fixed typos. The goal is to ensure the applicant has the skills
needed for the project.
- How did the mentor rate the applicant's strength? We ask mentors to
rate applicants:
(AMAZING, '5 - Amazing - multiple large, high-quality
contributions'),(STRONG, '4 - Strong - at least one large, high-quality
contribution'),
(GOOD, '3 - Good - some smaller contributions of good quality'),
(UNLIKELY, '2 - Inexperienced - smaller contributions that vary
in quality'),
(NOTGOOD, '1 - Struggling - applicant did not understand
instructions or feedback'),
- Does the applicant have enough time free from full-time commitments?
We require that applicants be available for 49 out of 91 days during the
internship period. However, if someone has the minimum amount of time free,
we take a hard look again at their contributions. They need to be stronger,
larger contributions in that case. We want to be sure they're
It's also important to evaluate which projects would be most supportive of
retaining a diverse group of interns.
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019, 8:12 AM Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello Sage,
>
> One of the concerns that was raised is that the ASF, by both providing
> funds, and picking one project might be "picking winners". Our neutrality
> has been very important to our success in attracting and supporting open
> source projects. It is at least possible that more projects than we could
> provide funding for might be interested in mentoring an Outreachy intern
> and benefiting from their efforts. This would raise the question of how to
> remain neutral while still providing funds for an Outreachy internship.
>
> One approach to solving this problem which currently seems to be favored,
> is to not fund Outreachy internships. We could ask a sponsor to do this on
> our behalf. But, if we can't find a sponsor to donate to Outreachy, that
> could mean that we cannot do Outreachy internships. Companies which donate
> to the ASF may not necessary be willing to donate to Outreachy because of
> criteria unrelated to the purpose of the money.
>
> So here comes my first question: If we have too many potential projects,
> would it be possible to ask Outreachy to do the picking based on your
> criteria? If yes, what would your criteria be? Depending on what those
> criteria are, this could potentially be a way to help us preserve our
> neutrality.
>
> Direct impact on our diversity statistics can't be our goal in
> participating in Outreachy; we're too big for that. Instead, one of the
> hopes that has been expressed with respect to hosting an Outreachy intern
> is that we'll be able to follow their progress and learn from the problems
> they encounter, so that we can figure out what's keeping people out of our
> communities and tackle those underlying problems. That knowledge will have
> to be transferable across our projects.
>
> So here comes my second question, Sage: From your e-mail, this seems like a
> reasonable approach, but I'd love to hear you address this specifically.
> Have you seen other communities do this successfully? Can you put us in
> contact with them to learn from their experiences?
>
> Thank you for coming to our list to answer questions. I very much
> appreciate your time.
>
> Best Regards,
> Myrle Krantz
>
> On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:23 PM sharp@otter.technology
> <sh...@otter.technology> wrote:
>
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > I'm Sage Sharp, an Outreachy organizer. I'm happy to answer questions
> > people have about our program.
> >
> > I'm trying to read up on several email threads, so I may not have all the
> > information about what the ASF is proposing. From what I understand, ASF
> is
> > considering being an Outreachy sponsor. It looks like the proposal is to
> > have six interns working on various ASF member projects. [1]
> >
> > Please note that Outreachy projects don't have to be coding projects.
> They
> > could be projects related to design, user experience, translation, and
> more.
> >
> > The question then posed was:
> >
> > > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
> >
> > As to your question, Outreachy is a completely separate internship
> > program. The Outreachy interns are independent contractors under
> > Outreachy's fiscal sponsor, the Software Freedom Conservancy. They would
> > not be ASF employees or contactors. ASF would be providing a
> tax-deductible
> > donation to Software Freedom Conservancy to cover the $5,500 intern
> > stipend, $500 travel stipend, and a $500 accounting fee for each intern
> > working on an ASF project.
> >
> > One of the benefits of participating in Outreachy is that your free
> > software community gets exposed to people from marginalized groups in
> tech.
> > Every internship round, 800 to 1,000 people have their Outreachy initial
> > application approved. The contribution period allows applicants to make
> > solid contributions to your project. Even if you only select one intern,
> > you have the chance to introduce your project to many applicants who may
> > have never heard of it before.
> >
> > Even submitting a project to the Outreachy website may help mentors
> > understand some of the issues newcomers face. The website tries to
> > eliminate common barriers that newcomers face like not understanding what
> > IRC is, not being able to find a mentor to contact, not being able to
> find
> > a newcomer friendly issue to work on. Mentors have reported that even the
> > act of signing up has helped them see places where their project
> > documentation needs improving.
> >
> > Outreachy also provides interns a structure that is lacking in many
> > contract positions. I've identified major pain points that happen during
> > the internship and developed a system for removing those issues. The
> > structure consists of: feedback check-ins, a chance for interns to
> connect
> > with each other, and support for finding a job in free software after the
> > internship.
> >
> > *Feedback and check-ins*: We have three points during the internship
> where
> > mentors and interns independently give feedback on each other. The
> > Outreachy organizers look over that feedback and make sure the internship
> > is progressing smoothly. If needed, we facilitate conversations between
> the
> > mentors and interns.
> >
> > *Connecting interns*: We also have a private chat server where Outreachy
> > interns can connect to each other. Being able to connect with other
> interns
> > from other projects is essential to not feeling alone. We also have a
> > series of emails and chat sessions which guide interns through common
> > problems they experience during the internship.
> >
> > For instance, the first chat we do is one where mentors and interns share
> > what they've been struggling with. This normalizes the fact that everyone
> > struggles, and that it's okay to reach out for help. People who are
> interns
> > for the first time often need this type of reassurance.
> >
> > *Support for finding a free software job*: Outreachy also provides a job
> > opportunities to alums and a travel stipend for attending free software
> > events. This round, we're looking into providing interviewing workshops
> and
> > resume review.
> >
> > Outreachy organizers are very experienced at supporting people from
> > marginalized groups in tech. We've had over 500 interns. If your
> community
> > is looking to increase its diversity, Outreachy is a good way to do so.
> >
> > Communities like Debian, Ceph, GNOME, OpenStack, the Linux kernel, and
> > Wikimedia have been participating in Outreachy for years. OpenStack and
> the
> > Linux kernel saw a marked increase around in the number of women
> > participants when they started participating in Outreachy. You can see
> some
> > of the communities that have participated before by looking at our past
> > round page:
> >
> > https://www.outreachy.org/past-projects/
> >
> > Let me know what other questions you have!
> >
> > Sage Sharp
> > Outreachy Organizer
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a02217bcc050fe713d33fe73fa14503c173db92a1e1a6c0b174a338c@%3Cdev.diversity.apache.org%3E
> >
> > On 2019/06/21 21:18:21, Ross Gardler <Ross.Gardler@microsoft.com
> .INVALID>
> > wrote:
> > > A colleague at day job is an Outreachy organizer. My understanding was
> > that she had joined the diversity list for this reason. Let me see if
> they
> > are having issues or are simply waiting for a moment at which they can be
> > productive
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:06 PM
> > > To: dev@diversity.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Representational intern experience
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And finally:
> > > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
> > >
> > > I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following
> request:
> > >
> > > - - -
> > >
> > > The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
> > > and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
> > > following question was raised:
> > >
> > > "How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
> > >
> > > This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fb5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3%40%253Cdev.diversity.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=eF1QUuBiyEhBHKoRW6n0cfsJh3UeDK5fUxNTqYPvH0Y%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
> > > answer a few questions people might have?
> > >
> > > - Sam Ruby
> > >
> > > - - -
> > >
> > > - Sam Ruby
> > >
> > > [1]
> >
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outreachy.org%2Fcontact%2Forganizers%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=sgBfBRjyM%2BFYVBmQyMIUZyV7OfwtVRmJcJRAiMaA3YI%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> >
>
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org>.
Hello Sage,
One of the concerns that was raised is that the ASF, by both providing
funds, and picking one project might be "picking winners". Our neutrality
has been very important to our success in attracting and supporting open
source projects. It is at least possible that more projects than we could
provide funding for might be interested in mentoring an Outreachy intern
and benefiting from their efforts. This would raise the question of how to
remain neutral while still providing funds for an Outreachy internship.
One approach to solving this problem which currently seems to be favored,
is to not fund Outreachy internships. We could ask a sponsor to do this on
our behalf. But, if we can't find a sponsor to donate to Outreachy, that
could mean that we cannot do Outreachy internships. Companies which donate
to the ASF may not necessary be willing to donate to Outreachy because of
criteria unrelated to the purpose of the money.
So here comes my first question: If we have too many potential projects,
would it be possible to ask Outreachy to do the picking based on your
criteria? If yes, what would your criteria be? Depending on what those
criteria are, this could potentially be a way to help us preserve our
neutrality.
Direct impact on our diversity statistics can't be our goal in
participating in Outreachy; we're too big for that. Instead, one of the
hopes that has been expressed with respect to hosting an Outreachy intern
is that we'll be able to follow their progress and learn from the problems
they encounter, so that we can figure out what's keeping people out of our
communities and tackle those underlying problems. That knowledge will have
to be transferable across our projects.
So here comes my second question, Sage: From your e-mail, this seems like a
reasonable approach, but I'd love to hear you address this specifically.
Have you seen other communities do this successfully? Can you put us in
contact with them to learn from their experiences?
Thank you for coming to our list to answer questions. I very much
appreciate your time.
Best Regards,
Myrle Krantz
On Sat, Jun 22, 2019 at 8:23 PM sharp@otter.technology
<sh...@otter.technology> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I'm Sage Sharp, an Outreachy organizer. I'm happy to answer questions
> people have about our program.
>
> I'm trying to read up on several email threads, so I may not have all the
> information about what the ASF is proposing. From what I understand, ASF is
> considering being an Outreachy sponsor. It looks like the proposal is to
> have six interns working on various ASF member projects. [1]
>
> Please note that Outreachy projects don't have to be coding projects. They
> could be projects related to design, user experience, translation, and more.
>
> The question then posed was:
>
> > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
>
> As to your question, Outreachy is a completely separate internship
> program. The Outreachy interns are independent contractors under
> Outreachy's fiscal sponsor, the Software Freedom Conservancy. They would
> not be ASF employees or contactors. ASF would be providing a tax-deductible
> donation to Software Freedom Conservancy to cover the $5,500 intern
> stipend, $500 travel stipend, and a $500 accounting fee for each intern
> working on an ASF project.
>
> One of the benefits of participating in Outreachy is that your free
> software community gets exposed to people from marginalized groups in tech.
> Every internship round, 800 to 1,000 people have their Outreachy initial
> application approved. The contribution period allows applicants to make
> solid contributions to your project. Even if you only select one intern,
> you have the chance to introduce your project to many applicants who may
> have never heard of it before.
>
> Even submitting a project to the Outreachy website may help mentors
> understand some of the issues newcomers face. The website tries to
> eliminate common barriers that newcomers face like not understanding what
> IRC is, not being able to find a mentor to contact, not being able to find
> a newcomer friendly issue to work on. Mentors have reported that even the
> act of signing up has helped them see places where their project
> documentation needs improving.
>
> Outreachy also provides interns a structure that is lacking in many
> contract positions. I've identified major pain points that happen during
> the internship and developed a system for removing those issues. The
> structure consists of: feedback check-ins, a chance for interns to connect
> with each other, and support for finding a job in free software after the
> internship.
>
> *Feedback and check-ins*: We have three points during the internship where
> mentors and interns independently give feedback on each other. The
> Outreachy organizers look over that feedback and make sure the internship
> is progressing smoothly. If needed, we facilitate conversations between the
> mentors and interns.
>
> *Connecting interns*: We also have a private chat server where Outreachy
> interns can connect to each other. Being able to connect with other interns
> from other projects is essential to not feeling alone. We also have a
> series of emails and chat sessions which guide interns through common
> problems they experience during the internship.
>
> For instance, the first chat we do is one where mentors and interns share
> what they've been struggling with. This normalizes the fact that everyone
> struggles, and that it's okay to reach out for help. People who are interns
> for the first time often need this type of reassurance.
>
> *Support for finding a free software job*: Outreachy also provides a job
> opportunities to alums and a travel stipend for attending free software
> events. This round, we're looking into providing interviewing workshops and
> resume review.
>
> Outreachy organizers are very experienced at supporting people from
> marginalized groups in tech. We've had over 500 interns. If your community
> is looking to increase its diversity, Outreachy is a good way to do so.
>
> Communities like Debian, Ceph, GNOME, OpenStack, the Linux kernel, and
> Wikimedia have been participating in Outreachy for years. OpenStack and the
> Linux kernel saw a marked increase around in the number of women
> participants when they started participating in Outreachy. You can see some
> of the communities that have participated before by looking at our past
> round page:
>
> https://www.outreachy.org/past-projects/
>
> Let me know what other questions you have!
>
> Sage Sharp
> Outreachy Organizer
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a02217bcc050fe713d33fe73fa14503c173db92a1e1a6c0b174a338c@%3Cdev.diversity.apache.org%3E
>
> On 2019/06/21 21:18:21, Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com.INVALID>
> wrote:
> > A colleague at day job is an Outreachy organizer. My understanding was
> that she had joined the diversity list for this reason. Let me see if they
> are having issues or are simply waiting for a moment at which they can be
> productive
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> > Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:06 PM
> > To: dev@diversity.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Representational intern experience
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > And finally:
> > > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
> >
> > I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following request:
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
> > and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
> > following question was raised:
> >
> > "How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
> >
> > This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
> >
> >
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fb5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3%40%253Cdev.diversity.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=eF1QUuBiyEhBHKoRW6n0cfsJh3UeDK5fUxNTqYPvH0Y%3D&reserved=0
> >
> > Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
> > answer a few questions people might have?
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> > - - -
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> > [1]
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outreachy.org%2Fcontact%2Forganizers%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=sgBfBRjyM%2BFYVBmQyMIUZyV7OfwtVRmJcJRAiMaA3YI%3D&reserved=0
> >
>
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by sh...@otter.technology,
sh...@otter.technology.
Hi folks,
I'm Sage Sharp, an Outreachy organizer. I'm happy to answer questions people have about our program.
I'm trying to read up on several email threads, so I may not have all the information about what the ASF is proposing. From what I understand, ASF is considering being an Outreachy sponsor. It looks like the proposal is to have six interns working on various ASF member projects. [1]
Please note that Outreachy projects don't have to be coding projects. They could be projects related to design, user experience, translation, and more.
The question then posed was:
> > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
As to your question, Outreachy is a completely separate internship program. The Outreachy interns are independent contractors under Outreachy's fiscal sponsor, the Software Freedom Conservancy. They would not be ASF employees or contactors. ASF would be providing a tax-deductible donation to Software Freedom Conservancy to cover the $5,500 intern stipend, $500 travel stipend, and a $500 accounting fee for each intern working on an ASF project.
One of the benefits of participating in Outreachy is that your free software community gets exposed to people from marginalized groups in tech. Every internship round, 800 to 1,000 people have their Outreachy initial application approved. The contribution period allows applicants to make solid contributions to your project. Even if you only select one intern, you have the chance to introduce your project to many applicants who may have never heard of it before.
Even submitting a project to the Outreachy website may help mentors understand some of the issues newcomers face. The website tries to eliminate common barriers that newcomers face like not understanding what IRC is, not being able to find a mentor to contact, not being able to find a newcomer friendly issue to work on. Mentors have reported that even the act of signing up has helped them see places where their project documentation needs improving.
Outreachy also provides interns a structure that is lacking in many contract positions. I've identified major pain points that happen during the internship and developed a system for removing those issues. The structure consists of: feedback check-ins, a chance for interns to connect with each other, and support for finding a job in free software after the internship.
*Feedback and check-ins*: We have three points during the internship where mentors and interns independently give feedback on each other. The Outreachy organizers look over that feedback and make sure the internship is progressing smoothly. If needed, we facilitate conversations between the mentors and interns.
*Connecting interns*: We also have a private chat server where Outreachy interns can connect to each other. Being able to connect with other interns from other projects is essential to not feeling alone. We also have a series of emails and chat sessions which guide interns through common problems they experience during the internship.
For instance, the first chat we do is one where mentors and interns share what they've been struggling with. This normalizes the fact that everyone struggles, and that it's okay to reach out for help. People who are interns for the first time often need this type of reassurance.
*Support for finding a free software job*: Outreachy also provides a job opportunities to alums and a travel stipend for attending free software events. This round, we're looking into providing interviewing workshops and resume review.
Outreachy organizers are very experienced at supporting people from marginalized groups in tech. We've had over 500 interns. If your community is looking to increase its diversity, Outreachy is a good way to do so.
Communities like Debian, Ceph, GNOME, OpenStack, the Linux kernel, and Wikimedia have been participating in Outreachy for years. OpenStack and the Linux kernel saw a marked increase around in the number of women participants when they started participating in Outreachy. You can see some of the communities that have participated before by looking at our past round page:
https://www.outreachy.org/past-projects/
Let me know what other questions you have!
Sage Sharp
Outreachy Organizer
[1] https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/a02217bcc050fe713d33fe73fa14503c173db92a1e1a6c0b174a338c@%3Cdev.diversity.apache.org%3E
On 2019/06/21 21:18:21, Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com.INVALID> wrote:
> A colleague at day job is an Outreachy organizer. My understanding was that she had joined the diversity list for this reason. Let me see if they are having issues or are simply waiting for a moment at which they can be productive
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
> Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:06 PM
> To: dev@diversity.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Representational intern experience
>
> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
> >
> > And finally:
> > How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> > interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> > on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> > just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
>
> I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following request:
>
> - - -
>
> The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
> and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
> following question was raised:
>
> "How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
>
> This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
>
> https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fb5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3%40%253Cdev.diversity.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=eF1QUuBiyEhBHKoRW6n0cfsJh3UeDK5fUxNTqYPvH0Y%3D&reserved=0
>
> Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
> answer a few questions people might have?
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> - - -
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> [1] https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outreachy.org%2Fcontact%2Forganizers%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=sgBfBRjyM%2BFYVBmQyMIUZyV7OfwtVRmJcJRAiMaA3YI%3D&reserved=0
>
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com.INVALID>.
A colleague at day job is an Outreachy organizer. My understanding was that she had joined the diversity list for this reason. Let me see if they are having issues or are simply waiting for a moment at which they can be productive
________________________________
From: Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>
Sent: Friday, June 21, 2019 12:06 PM
To: dev@diversity.apache.org
Subject: Re: Representational intern experience
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
> And finally:
> How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following request:
- - -
The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
following question was raised:
"How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
interns from under-represented populations and having them work
on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.apache.org%2Fthread.html%2Fb5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3%40%253Cdev.diversity.apache.org%253E&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=eF1QUuBiyEhBHKoRW6n0cfsJh3UeDK5fUxNTqYPvH0Y%3D&reserved=0
Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
answer a few questions people might have?
- Sam Ruby
- - -
- Sam Ruby
[1] https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.outreachy.org%2Fcontact%2Forganizers%2F&data=02%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C85ec81e4d744485a9e0608d6f67b9104%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636967407913535319&sdata=sgBfBRjyM%2BFYVBmQyMIUZyV7OfwtVRmJcJRAiMaA3YI%3D&reserved=0
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 1:56 PM Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
> And finally:
> How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.
I just used the Contact Outreachy form[1] to send the following request:
- - -
The Apache Software Foundation is considering becoming a sponsor
and/or volunteering a number of mentors. During the discussion, the
following question was raised:
"How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
interns from under-represented populations and having them work
on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so."
This is on the public dev@diversity.apache.org mailing list:
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/b5af718fcb8d75a98fbd9ff378f0236050cd80ffb4d4f314d87106b3@%3Cdev.diversity.apache.org%3E
Would it be possible for an Outreachy Organizer to join this list and
answer a few questions people might have?
- Sam Ruby
- - -
- Sam Ruby
[1] https://www.outreachy.org/contact/organizers/
Re: Representational intern experience
Posted by Naomi S <no...@tumbolia.org>.
I agree with you, Jim, that we should do this with run-of-the-mill TLPs
On Fri 21. Jun 2019 at 19:56, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 2019/06/21 13:37:01, Naomi S <n....@tumbolia.org> wrote:
> > agreed. my proposal (currently being drafted) goes into detail on this>
> > matter. but we don’t want to use Outreachy to inflate our demographics
> one>
> > internship at a time>
> >
> > we want to gather and synthesize the knowledge we gain through running
> an>
> > internship program w ppl from under represented groups so that we can>
> > publish recommendations that projects across the foundation can use
> (with>
> > support from us on duscuss@diversity) to make their projects more
> welcoming>
> > and safe and inclusive, and ultimately, more attractive to contribute
> to>
> >
>
> Agreed that that is a great desire and that should that happen,
> the information would be incredibly useful. One issue I have,
> which I have mentioned before, is the only way to get valuable data
> is to have these interns interact with "typical" ASF projects by
> producing code. The more offset-from-typical their engagement and
> interactions
> are, the less applicable they are to those projects that we hope to
> provide insight and guidance towards. In other words, for this engagement
> to have truly valuable insight, enough to warrant the expense (IMO),
> interns 'must' be creating code for a representative Apache project.
> Otherwise, that data set is tainted with unknown applicability to
> the problem set we are trying to correct.
>
> Of course, there are 2 big issues with that:
>
> 1. We are paying for code development.
> 2. The proposals I saw were using ASF projects such as Whimsy
> as the project these interns would be working with/for.
>
> Now we are trying to justify #1 by using #2... that is, there is
> a train of thought that because what we are 'really' doing is
> paying for operations code, and we do that 'all the time', that
> the "not paying for code development" tenet doesn't apply.
>
> The issue is that this significantly alters the experience and
> engagement enough, IMO, that any data and findings from it, will
> be so different from a more typical, representative ASF project that
> it will be useless or, just as likely, be ignored by ASF projects because
> of its difference.
>
> Yes, it will allow D&I to watch and learn, but what they are
> watching and learning is so fundamentally different from the kinds
> of typical ASF projects that it's like watching curling to learn
> how to bowl.
>
> This effort should have real, tangible benefits, for the sponsor, for
> the ASF and for the intern. From what I can see, intern would get some
> "exposure" about open source and Apache, but very, very, very little that
> would be directly 'admissible' to typical ASF projects, and open source.
> The ASF would get data that could be easily and readily dismissed, and
> thus do very little to provide guidance and insights on how to correct
> D&I. And the sponsor would be paying for something that, at the end of
> the day, does not accomplish the real end goal.
>
> And finally:
> How does this, fundamentally, differ from the ASF simply hiring
> interns from under-represented populations and having them work
> on Whimsy (or whatever)? This is basically what we are doing,
> just using Outreachy as a sort of main contractor to do so.