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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com> on 2017/09/22 15:40:50 UTC
Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service that
integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers to
return a useful score enhancer.
If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually - the
full message.
Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy - but how
hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
Starting with just the subject won't return a result all the time. Many
request will return a 0 if it can't figure it out. If it does return a
result that is significantly away from 0 it's probably right. And it is
more likely to return a result from ham than spam confirming good email
as good. Obviously - using the header and then the whole message will be
more accurate.
I'm using new techniques no one else is using.
So - any interest?
--
Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
support@junkemailfilter.com
http://www.junkemailfilter.com
Junk Email Filter dot com
415-992-3400
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by "Luis E. Muñoz" <sa...@lem.click>.
Mark,
This certainly does not add confidence in the "techniques no one else is
using":
```
⋮
support@junkemailfilter.com
host darwin.ctyme.com [184.105.182.171]
SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
550-FAKE-REJECT - TLD-FROM [click] is blocked - X=darwin
⋮
```
Best regards
-lem
On 22 Sep 2017, at 8:40, Marc Perkel wrote:
> This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service that
> integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers to
> return a useful score enhancer.
>
> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>
> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
> the full message.
>
> Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy - but how
> hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
>
> Starting with just the subject won't return a result all the time.
> Many request will return a 0 if it can't figure it out. If it does
> return a result that is significantly away from 0 it's probably right.
> And it is more likely to return a result from ham than spam confirming
> good email as good. Obviously - using the header and then the whole
> message will be more accurate.
>
> I'm using new techniques no one else is using.
>
> So - any interest?
>
> --
> Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
> support@junkemailfilter.com
> http://www.junkemailfilter.com
> Junk Email Filter dot com
> 415-992-3400
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Ralph Seichter <m1...@monksofcool.net>.
On 22.09.2017 19:43, John Hardin wrote:
> He was only proposing the subject. Essentially it sounds like a
> subjectBL service.
As you since realised, Marc suggested full emails. Personally, I'd not
share even subject lines. I'm trying to make it as difficult as possible
for people to glance at mail going through my mail servers, using TLS et
al (both opportunistic and forced, if I know my partners offer TLS as
well) and S/MIME or GPG-encrypted emails when possible. I'd *never* send
any data to Joe Random Service for scanning, even it was a free service.
If the NSA or anybody else wants the data, they can bloody well work for
it. P.S.: President Bomb Assassination. :-)
-Ralph
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Dianne Skoll <df...@roaringpenguin.com>.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 10:43:57 -0700 (PDT)
John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org> wrote:
> > Are you suggesting people send you their email for scanning? If so,
> > I'd say nobody in their right mind should be interested, for
> > obvious reasons of privacy. It would also be illegal where I live.
> He was only proposing the subject. Essentially it sounds like a
> subjectBL service.
The subject initially, but eventually everything.
A subject BL wouldn't be that useful. It would catch a lot of the
obvious porn stuff, but not so much the ones that say "Hi" or "Hey".
Regards,
Dianne.
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org>.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, John Hardin wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Ralph Seichter wrote:
>
>> On 22.09.2017 17:40, Marc Perkel wrote:
>>
>> > If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
>> > subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
>> > spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>> >
>> > The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
>> > the full message.
>>
>> Are you suggesting people send you their email for scanning? If so, I'd
>> say nobody in their right mind should be interested, for obvious reasons
>> of privacy. It would also be illegal where I live.
>
> He was only proposing the subject. Essentially it sounds like a subjectBL
> service.
...and I didn't read the "next level" part - d'oh!
I think a subjectBL might have merit, but shipping the *entire* email for
scanning? That won't fly.
--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
176 days since the first commercial re-flight of an orbital booster (SpaceX)
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org>.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Luis E. Muñoz wrote:
> On 22 Sep 2017, at 10:43, John Hardin wrote:
>
>> He was only proposing the subject. Essentially it sounds like a subjectBL
>> service.
>
> In the same message he said
>
> "The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually - the
> full message."
Yeah.
The perils of dipping my toe into personal email during an idle moment at
work... :)
--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
176 days since the first commercial re-flight of an orbital booster (SpaceX)
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by "Luis E. Muñoz" <sa...@lem.click>.
On 22 Sep 2017, at 10:43, John Hardin wrote:
> He was only proposing the subject. Essentially it sounds like a
> subjectBL service.
In the same message he said
"The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
the full message."
Best regards
-lem
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org>.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, Ralph Seichter wrote:
> On 22.09.2017 17:40, Marc Perkel wrote:
>
>> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
>> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
>> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>>
>> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
>> the full message.
>
> Are you suggesting people send you their email for scanning? If so, I'd
> say nobody in their right mind should be interested, for obvious reasons
> of privacy. It would also be illegal where I live.
He was only proposing the subject. Essentially it sounds like a subjectBL
service.
--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org FALaholic #11174 pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
176 days since the first commercial re-flight of an orbital booster (SpaceX)
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Ralph Seichter <m1...@monksofcool.net>.
On 22.09.2017 17:40, Marc Perkel wrote:
> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>
> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
> the full message.
Are you suggesting people send you their email for scanning? If so, I'd
say nobody in their right mind should be interested, for obvious reasons
of privacy. It would also be illegal where I live.
-Ralph
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Martin Gregorie <ma...@gregorie.org>.
On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 08:40 -0700, Marc Perkel wrote:
> This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service
> that integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers
> to return a useful score enhancer.
>
> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>
> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
> the full message.
>
How does this differ from running spamc with the -d or --dest option?
These options make it send the message to a daemonised spamd on one of
the host(s) listed in the -d or --dest option's value string, so this
already offers a fail-over capability. Seen in this light, spamc
already does pretty much what I think you're asking for.
Martin
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by "Kevin A. McGrail" <ke...@mcgrail.com>.
What type of rule is it? A new kind based on subject?
You could treat it like an rbl that sends the subject and returns a dns response. You would need plugin changes to send the subject which is not hard. And a dns server that performs logic from a dns query but if that's your thought, I can look at tools we've used that do cool things with dns.
There is a Perl dns server we have used in the past as well.
Regards,
KAM
On September 22, 2017 12:46:45 PM EDT, Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>I think people are misunderstanding. It's not a spamd service. It's
>basically another rule you would add to your config.
>
>I think I need to do it first and then talk about it.
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by David Jones <dj...@ena.com>.
On 09/22/2017 11:46 AM, Marc Perkel wrote:
> I think people are misunderstanding. It's not a spamd service. It's
> basically another rule you would add to your config.
>
> I think I need to do it first and then talk about it.
>
I think you are misunderstanding them. They are trying to tell you a
better way to do this that wouldn't require writing a custom plugin and
reinvent the wheel with the plugin and encrypted communications.
I personally don't want to have the overhead and latency required to
send a complete copy of all email flowing through my SA filters to an
external service/server. If something goes/slows down then I will start
getting SA timeouts in MailScanner. Since MailScanner runs batches of
messages at a time, an SA timeout causes the whole batch (up to 10
messages) to pass through as clean. Thankfully most of the messages
that make it to SA are clean so the occasional SA timeout doesn't cause
a problem.
--
David Jones
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com>.
I think people are misunderstanding. It's not a spamd service. It's
basically another rule you would add to your config.
I think I need to do it first and then talk about it.
On 09/22/17 09:33, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> It's very feasible but it's a blurry off topic issue to even discuss
> here for a commercial service.
>
> At worst you just make yourself a standard mx of record filter system
> provider.
>
> If you want a "plugin" you just offer spamd service restricted by ip
> address with ssl.
>
> Perhaps you are over thinking things? Just offer a complete spamd
> replacement instead of an extra test.
>
> My $0.02.
> Regards,
> KAM
>
> On September 22, 2017 12:17:04 PM EDT, Marc Perkel
> <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>
> Probably both. Not sure. Just trying to see if it's feasible.
>
> On 09/22/17 09:12, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>> Are you discussing a free or a commercial service?
>> Regards,
>> KAM
>>
>> On September 22, 2017 11:40:50 AM EDT, Marc Perkel
>> <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service that
>> integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers to
>> return a useful score enhancer.
>>
>> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
>> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
>> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>>
>> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually - the
>> full message.
>>
>> Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy - but how
>> hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
>>
>> Starting with just the subject won't return a result all the time. Many
>> request will return a 0 if it can't figure it out. If it does return a
>> result that is significantly away from 0 it's probably right. And it is
>> more likely to return a result from ham than spam confirming good email
>> as good. Obviously - using the header and then the whole message will be
>> more accurate.
>>
>> I'm using new techniques no one else is using.
>>
>> So - any interest?
>>
>
> --
> Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
> support@junkemailfilter.com
> http://www.junkemailfilter.com
> Junk Email Filter dot com
> 415-992-3400
>
--
Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
support@junkemailfilter.com
http://www.junkemailfilter.com
Junk Email Filter dot com
415-992-3400
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by "Kevin A. McGrail" <ke...@mcgrail.com>.
It's very feasible but it's a blurry off topic issue to even discuss here for a commercial service.
At worst you just make yourself a standard mx of record filter system provider.
If you want a "plugin" you just offer spamd service restricted by ip address with ssl.
Perhaps you are over thinking things? Just offer a complete spamd replacement instead of an extra test.
My $0.02.
Regards,
KAM
On September 22, 2017 12:17:04 PM EDT, Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>Probably both. Not sure. Just trying to see if it's feasible.
>
>On 09/22/17 09:12, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
>> Are you discussing a free or a commercial service?
>> Regards,
>> KAM
>>
>> On September 22, 2017 11:40:50 AM EDT, Marc Perkel
>> <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service
>that
>> integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers
>to
>> return a useful score enhancer.
>>
>> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing
>the
>> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive
>is
>> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>>
>> The next level would be sending the message headers and
>eventually - the
>> full message.
>>
>> Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy -
>but how
>> hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
>>
>> Starting with just the subject won't return a result all the
>time. Many
>> request will return a 0 if it can't figure it out. If it does
>return a
>> result that is significantly away from 0 it's probably right. And
>it is
>> more likely to return a result from ham than spam confirming good
>email
>> as good. Obviously - using the header and then the whole message
>will be
>> more accurate.
>>
>> I'm using new techniques no one else is using.
>>
>> So - any interest?
>>
>
>--
>Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
>support@junkemailfilter.com
>http://www.junkemailfilter.com
>Junk Email Filter dot com
>415-992-3400
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com>.
Probably both. Not sure. Just trying to see if it's feasible.
On 09/22/17 09:12, Kevin A. McGrail wrote:
> Are you discussing a free or a commercial service?
> Regards,
> KAM
>
> On September 22, 2017 11:40:50 AM EDT, Marc Perkel
> <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>
> This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service that
> integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers to
> return a useful score enhancer.
>
> If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
> subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
> spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>
> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually - the
> full message.
>
> Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy - but how
> hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
>
> Starting with just the subject won't return a result all the time. Many
> request will return a 0 if it can't figure it out. If it does return a
> result that is significantly away from 0 it's probably right. And it is
> more likely to return a result from ham than spam confirming good email
> as good. Obviously - using the header and then the whole message will be
> more accurate.
>
> I'm using new techniques no one else is using.
>
> So - any interest?
>
--
Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
support@junkemailfilter.com
http://www.junkemailfilter.com
Junk Email Filter dot com
415-992-3400
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by "Kevin A. McGrail" <ke...@mcgrail.com>.
Are you discussing a free or a commercial service?
Regards,
KAM
On September 22, 2017 11:40:50 AM EDT, Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
>This is something I'm thinking about doing - providing a service that
>integrates into SA as a plug in and communicates with my servers to
>return a useful score enhancer.
>
>If there is interest my initial demo test will be just stuffing the
>subject line into a IP/port and returning a number where positive is
>spam and negative is ham. This would just be a proof of concept.
>
>The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
>the
>full message.
>
>Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy - but how
>hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
>
>Starting with just the subject won't return a result all the time. Many
>
>request will return a 0 if it can't figure it out. If it does return a
>result that is significantly away from 0 it's probably right. And it is
>
>more likely to return a result from ham than spam confirming good email
>
>as good. Obviously - using the header and then the whole message will
>be
>more accurate.
>
>I'm using new techniques no one else is using.
>
>So - any interest?
>
>--
>Marc Perkel - Sales/Support
>support@junkemailfilter.com
>http://www.junkemailfilter.com
>Junk Email Filter dot com
>415-992-3400
Re: Would anyone be interested in a SA enhancing service?
Posted by Dianne Skoll <df...@roaringpenguin.com>.
On Fri, 22 Sep 2017 08:40:50 -0700
Marc Perkel <su...@junkemailfilter.com> wrote:
> The next level would be sending the message headers and eventually -
> the full message.
Why would anyone do that as opposed to just purchasing your commercial
spam filtering service? If someone wants to offload spam-detection,
they might as well offload the entire problem to someone else and not
worry about it. Especially given this statement:
> Would need someone to write a simple plugin - not a perl guy - but
> how hard can that be? Would eventually need to be encrypted though.
I think most admins would have significant privacy concerns.
Regards,
Dianne.