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Posted to user@lenya.apache.org by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org> on 2009/01/29 17:33:08 UTC
Show namespaces in source editor?
Hi Lenya users and devs,
ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document editable
in its original form for the following reasons:
* More transparency
* Allow to change namespace URIs
* Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages (not
possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are different)
IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This only
works if the document is shown in its original form.
WDYT?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Validation: server- vs. client-side
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Hi André,
Florent André schrieb:
>> […]
>>
>>> I see another ajax framework (ZK) who has an example of a client side
>>> validation : http://www.zkoss.org/zkdemo/userguide/#a4
>>>
>>>
>>> This last framework (ZK) seem me to be very powerful and in the spirits
>> of
>>> Lenya/Cocoon : all Ajax declarations are doing in an xml way (XUL and
>> XAML
>>> "compliant" : http://zkoss.org/faq/#XUL) !
>>>
>>> So, I go a little out of the current discussion, but how do you think
>> about
>>> the integration (interest / possibility) of this ajax framework in
>> Lenya ?
>>
>> thanks for doing this research!
>>
>> Unfortunately ZK uses GPL, so it disqualifies as a framework to be used
>> within Lenya.
> D'oh (Homer Simpson :) ! What kind of licences (other than Apache) can be
> use in Lenya ?
here's a list:
http://www.apache.org/legal/3party.html
>> But of course 3rd party add-ons like an editor could be
>> implemented using the framework.
>
> And for a module (like flowchart, grid,...) ? (this is just an idea)
This would be possible as long as no ZK code is committed to the ASF
repository. So either the module has to be provided by a 3rd party, or
the ZK framework has to be downloaded separately (like TinyMCE etc.).
>> Apart from that, I'm not sure if the framework is stable enough yet. Are
>> there any other projects using it?
>
> On the official web site they have a huge number of enterprise that use it,
> and in the bottom they list some project (I don't explore the maturity of
> this) : http://www.zkoss.org/whosusingzk/
Thanks for the link!
-- Andreas
--
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BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
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Re: Validation: server- vs. client-side
Posted by Florent André <fl...@4sengines.com>.
On Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:25:06 +0100, Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi André,
>
> Florent André schrieb:
>
> […]
>
>> I see another ajax framework (ZK) who has an example of a client side
>> validation : http://www.zkoss.org/zkdemo/userguide/#a4
>>
>>
>> This last framework (ZK) seem me to be very powerful and in the spirits
> of
>> Lenya/Cocoon : all Ajax declarations are doing in an xml way (XUL and
> XAML
>> "compliant" : http://zkoss.org/faq/#XUL) !
>>
>> So, I go a little out of the current discussion, but how do you think
> about
>> the integration (interest / possibility) of this ajax framework in
> Lenya ?
>
> thanks for doing this research!
>
> Unfortunately ZK uses GPL, so it disqualifies as a framework to be used
> within Lenya.
D'oh (Homer Simpson :) ! What kind of licences (other than Apache) can be
use in Lenya ?
> But of course 3rd party add-ons like an editor could be
> implemented using the framework.
And for a module (like flowchart, grid,...) ? (this is just an idea)
>
> Apart from that, I'm not sure if the framework is stable enough yet. Are
> there any other projects using it?
On the official web site they have a huge number of enterprise that use it,
and in the bottom they list some project (I don't explore the maturity of
this) : http://www.zkoss.org/whosusingzk/
See you soon
>
> TIA!
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
> --
> Andreas Hartmann, CTO
> BeCompany GmbH
> http://www.becompany.ch
> Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
>
>
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Re: Validation: server- vs. client-side
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Hi André,
Florent André schrieb:
[…]
> I see another ajax framework (ZK) who has an example of a client side
> validation : http://www.zkoss.org/zkdemo/userguide/#a4
>
>
> This last framework (ZK) seem me to be very powerful and in the spirits of
> Lenya/Cocoon : all Ajax declarations are doing in an xml way (XUL and XAML
> "compliant" : http://zkoss.org/faq/#XUL) !
>
> So, I go a little out of the current discussion, but how do you think about
> the integration (interest / possibility) of this ajax framework in Lenya ?
thanks for doing this research!
Unfortunately ZK uses GPL, so it disqualifies as a framework to be used
within Lenya. But of course 3rd party add-ons like an editor could be
implemented using the framework.
Apart from that, I'm not sure if the framework is stable enough yet. Are
there any other projects using it?
TIA!
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Validation: server- vs. client-side
Posted by Florent André <fl...@4sengines.com>.
On Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:09:02 +0100, Michael Wechner
<mi...@wyona.com> wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
>> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>>> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
>>
>> […]
>>
>>>> The validation has to happen on the server side,
>>>
>>> why? I could imagine using GWT one would be able to do this also on
>>> the client side.
>>
>> That sounds cool. Would it mean that Jing would be translated into
>> JavaScript and invoked by the browser's JavaScript engine?
>
> yes, theoretically ;-) The classes/libs I have used so far worked
> nicely, but I don't know how well GWT "scales" and I guess we just have
> to give it a try
I don't know well GWT, so I made some search and I find GWT-EXT. In this
ajax framework (based on GWT) I see that :
http://www.gwt-ext.com/demo/#loadSubmitXmlForm.
But this sample do the validation on the server side (in this
implementation).
I see another ajax framework (ZK) who has an example of a client side
validation : http://www.zkoss.org/zkdemo/userguide/#a4
This last framework (ZK) seem me to be very powerful and in the spirits of
Lenya/Cocoon : all Ajax declarations are doing in an xml way (XUL and XAML
"compliant" : http://zkoss.org/faq/#XUL) !
So, I go a little out of the current discussion, but how do you think about
the integration (interest / possibility) of this ajax framework in Lenya ?
For information, some interesting pages I find :
* A description of ZK :
http://www.javascriptsearch.com/news/news/060421ZKAJAX.html
* the demos page : http://www.zkoss.org/zkdemo/userguide/#f1
* How to put ZK in tomcat : http://zkoss.org/doc/quickstart/ch02s02.html
* GWT vs ZK (the 2 firsts links in google :p) :
** on the ZK site : http://www.zkoss.org/smalltalks/gwtZk/
** on a gwt site : http://www.ongwt.com/post/2007/02/17/GWT-vs-ZK
* the wiki : http://docs.zkoss.org/wiki/Getting_Started
* the developer's guide : http://docs.zkoss.org/wiki/Developer%27s_Guide
** how to integrate ZK in existing framework :
http://docs.zkoss.org/wiki/Developer%27s_Guide#Part_F.__Integrate_with_backend_frameworks
* the ZK forum : http://www.zkoss.org/forum/index.zul#path%3Dindex%3B
Have a good day !
>
> Cheers
>
> Michael
>>
>> -- Andreas
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Validation: server- vs. client-side
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
>
> […]
>
>>> The validation has to happen on the server side,
>>
>> why? I could imagine using GWT one would be able to do this also on
>> the client side.
>
> That sounds cool. Would it mean that Jing would be translated into
> JavaScript and invoked by the browser's JavaScript engine?
yes, theoretically ;-) The classes/libs I have used so far worked
nicely, but I don't know how well GWT "scales" and I guess we just have
to give it a try
Cheers
Michael
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Validation: server- vs. client-side (was: Show namespaces in source
editor?)
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
[…]
>> The validation has to happen on the server side,
>
> why? I could imagine using GWT one would be able to do this also on the
> client side.
That sounds cool. Would it mean that Jing would be translated into
JavaScript and invoked by the browser's JavaScript engine?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
[…]
>> I already mentioned that Thomas and me have started (or rather, almost
>> finished) the integration of the Firedocs editor in Lenya.
>
> is this code available somewhere?
I put it in the sandbox:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/lenya/sandbox/atom
It doesn't compile yet, though, because some core changes are necessary.
I'll start the respective discussions on the dev list.
-- Andreas
--
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BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> Michael Wechner schrieb:
>> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
>>> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>>>
>>> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the
>>> document source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the
>>> document editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>>>
>>> * More transparency
>>> * Allow to change namespace URIs
>>> * Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages
>>> (not possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are
>>> different)
>>>
>>> IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
>>> showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
>>>
>>> BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
>>> jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation
>>> error message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful).
>>> This only works if the document is shown in its original form.
>>>
>>> WDYT?
>>
>> +1 it would be great to make this independent of Lenya using some
>> protocol for the data exchange such that this source editor could be
>> re-used within other applications/CMS
>
> Yes, I also think that this would be a good idea. And I guess making
> the source editor independent from Lenya would be much easier without
> the special namespace handling.
>
>
>> Do think that's feasible with your sandbox code?
>
> The code I'm working doesn't contain any changes regarding the
> communication between the editor and the server, I only removed the
> parts which hide the namespaces.
ok
>
> I already mentioned that Thomas and me have started (or rather, almost
> finished) the integration of the Firedocs editor in Lenya.
is this code available somewhere?
> The integration code is quite generic (based on AtomPub), I could
> imagine to use it for the source editor as well. It would require some
> client-side JavaScript to send/receive information when save/validate
> operations are invoked.
yes, whereas I did something similar using GWT
>
> The validation has to happen on the server side,
why? I could imagine using GWT one would be able to do this also on the
client side.
> so continuous validation won't be easy to support. But I think we
> could provide a "Save" button which sends the current content to the
> server, locks the editing area until the response is received, and
> displays the result. WDYT?
as an alternative that would be ok, but as said above I think client
side validation makes more sense
>
> I'd be happy to do some prototyping in this direction. IMO it would be
> nice to have another app using the AtomPub interface. Would anyone be
> interested in participating?
yes, I would
Cheers
Michael
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Michael Wechner schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
>> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>>
>> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
>> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
>> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>>
>> * More transparency
>> * Allow to change namespace URIs
>> * Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages
>> (not possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are
>> different)
>>
>> IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
>> showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
>>
>> BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
>> jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
>> message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This
>> only works if the document is shown in its original form.
>>
>> WDYT?
>
> +1 it would be great to make this independent of Lenya using some
> protocol for the data exchange such that this source editor could be
> re-used within other applications/CMS
Yes, I also think that this would be a good idea. And I guess making the
source editor independent from Lenya would be much easier without the
special namespace handling.
> Do think that's feasible with your sandbox code?
The code I'm working doesn't contain any changes regarding the
communication between the editor and the server, I only removed the
parts which hide the namespaces.
I already mentioned that Thomas and me have started (or rather, almost
finished) the integration of the Firedocs editor in Lenya. The
integration code is quite generic (based on AtomPub), I could imagine to
use it for the source editor as well. It would require some client-side
JavaScript to send/receive information when save/validate operations are
invoked.
The validation has to happen on the server side, so continuous
validation won't be easy to support. But I think we could provide a
"Save" button which sends the current content to the server, locks the
editing area until the response is received, and displays the result. WDYT?
I'd be happy to do some prototyping in this direction. IMO it would be
nice to have another app using the AtomPub interface. Would anyone be
interested in participating?
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.com>.
Andreas Hartmann schrieb:
> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>
> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>
> * More transparency
> * Allow to change namespace URIs
> * Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages
> (not possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are
> different)
>
> IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
> showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
>
> BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
> jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
> message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This
> only works if the document is shown in its original form.
>
> WDYT?
+1 it would be great to make this independent of Lenya using some
protocol for the data exchange such that this source editor could be
re-used within other applications/CMS
Do think that's feasible with your sandbox code?
Thanks
Michael
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>>>>> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>>>>>
>>>>> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the
> document
>>>>> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
>>>>> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>>> Does it mean that ervery tag has the form <ns:tag> ?
>> It would show the document content exactly as it is stored on the
>> server. For each non-default namespace, the tags would contain the
>> namespace prefix. But if your documents mainly use a particular
>> namespace (e.g., the XHTML namespace), you can use this one as the
>> default namespace so that prefixes are not necessary.
>
> Fine ! So we don't need it configurable.
> +1
Since there have been only positive replies, I have checked in the code.
The usability can certainly be improved. And the column number isn't
correct, the curser is positioned one character too far to the right.
I'll file a bug for this.
Any comments and testing is greatly appreciated!
-- Andreas
--
Andreas Hartmann, CTO
BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
> >>> Hi Lenya users and devs,
> >>>
> >>> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the
document
> >>> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
> >>> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
> >
> > Does it mean that ervery tag has the form <ns:tag> ?
>
> It would show the document content exactly as it is stored on the
> server. For each non-default namespace, the tags would contain the
> namespace prefix. But if your documents mainly use a particular
> namespace (e.g., the XHTML namespace), you can use this one as the
> default namespace so that prefixes are not necessary.
Fine ! So we don't need it configurable.
+1
Rudolf
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
rudolf.korhummel@uniklinik-freiburg.de schrieb:
>>> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>>>
>>> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
>>> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
>>> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>
> Does it mean that ervery tag has the form <ns:tag> ?
It would show the document content exactly as it is stored on the
server. For each non-default namespace, the tags would contain the
namespace prefix. But if your documents mainly use a particular
namespace (e.g., the XHTML namespace), you can use this one as the
default namespace so that prefixes are not necessary.
[…]
>>> BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
>>> jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
>>> message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This
>>> only works if the document is shown in its original form.
>
> Great !!!
> Yesterday I had a corse for new lenya2 users. Locating the errors in the
> oneform editor without line numbers was very hard for the participants.
>
> Is it possible to make the behaviour of the editor configurable ?
The change would be quite fundamental, and I guess that making it
configurable would add quite a lot of complexity. Maybe you could try
the patch to see what editing with namespaces enabled looks like. I'm
not sure if the patch is working with the latest trunk, but I can
provide an updated one if you're interested.
-- Andreas
--
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BeCompany GmbH
http://www.becompany.ch
Tel.: +41 (0) 43 818 57 01
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by ru...@uniklinik-freiburg.de.
>
> > Hi Lenya users and devs,
> >
> > ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
> > source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
> > editable in its original form for the following reasons:
Does it mean that ervery tag has the form <ns:tag> ?
This may be hard for new users.
> >
> > * More transparency
> > * Allow to change namespace URIs
> > * Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages
> > (not possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are
> > different)
> >
> > IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
> > showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
> >
> > BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
> > jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
> > message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This
> > only works if the document is shown in its original form.
Great !!!
Yesterday I had a corse for new lenya2 users. Locating the errors in the
oneform editor without line numbers was very hard for the participants.
Is it possible to make the behaviour of the editor configurable ?
Rudolf
> >
> > WDYT?
> >
> +1 these changes seem to be helpful especially in case of an validation
> error ...
>
> Jann
>
>
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.uzh.ch>.
> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>
> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>
> * More transparency
> * Allow to change namespace URIs
> * Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages
> (not possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are
> different)
>
> IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
> showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
>
> BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
> jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
> message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This
> only works if the document is shown in its original form.
>
> WDYT?
>
+1 these changes seem to be helpful especially in case of an validation
error ...
Jann
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Re: Show namespaces in source editor?
Posted by Vik Tara <vi...@propco.co.uk>.
Big +1!
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Hi Lenya users and devs,
>
> ATM the source editor removes namespace declarations from the document
> source. I'd like to change this behaviour and make the document
> editable in its original form for the following reasons:
>
> * More transparency
> * Allow to change namespace URIs
> * Allow to use line and column numbers in validation error messages
> (not possible at the moment because the displayed and actual XML are
> different)
>
> IMO the source editor is targeted towards seasoned users, so I think
> showing them the source as-is doesn't do any harm.
>
> BTW, in my sandbox I have added some JavaScript code which allows to
> jump to the corresponding location when clicking on a validation error
> message (not perfect yet, but I think this could be helpful). This
> only works if the document is shown in its original form.
>
> WDYT?
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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