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Posted to users@tapestry.apache.org by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> on 2006/01/09 20:54:03 UTC
Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Please visit the article,
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
show your support for Tapestry.
Guidelines:
No bashing of other frameworks.
No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
against the wall when the revolution comes.
Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
is better."
If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
Tapestry.
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
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RE: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Aaron Bartell <al...@gmail.com>.
>This is all a bunch of hot air. Howard is doing what he thinks he needs to
do in order to defend Tapestry interests. I'm sure he wasn't talking down to
anyone.
Agreed.
Howard thanks for the job well done and I know EXACTLY where you are coming
from with posting that. I have played the role of not understanding my
actions on forums and have caused unneeded "noise". Simply put there are
ways to make a conversation productive and on the flip side make it seem
like a bunch of 7th graders are in study hall doing IM.
I had the benefit of seeing Howard's OSCON 2005 presentation and was very
pleased with how he is fighting this uphill battle (battle against other
frameworks like JSF).
Keep up the good work Tapestry team, and we as the community will try our
best to provide constructive criticism that aims to better Tapestry and the
Java community.
Aaron Bartell
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Longman [mailto:glongman@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:41 AM
To: Tapestry users
Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
This is all a bunch of hot air. Howard is doing what he thinks he needs to
do in order to defend Tapestry interests. I'm sure he wasn't talking down to
anyone.
Geoff
On 1/10/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure Howard's email was meant for the few overly ambitious zealout
> type of users that will sometimes blindly fight or insight flaming in
> a way that makes tapestry look weird. (I'm sure I've personally done
> this a few times at one point or another in my life..)
>
> Is it really this important? Who cares.. Cut him a break, he did
> create this awesome framework for us :)
>
> On 1/10/06, kranga <kr...@k2d2.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > These guidelines are nothing new. The essential principles are:
> >
> > 1) People respond to criticism negatively, however wrong they are
> > and however right you are. This is true of the person on death-row,
> > the white color criminal, the 80 year old grandma. Therefore, don't
criticize.
> > 2) Never debate using empty superlatives. E.g. this framework is
> > faster/easier/nicer/ etc. This implies that you are making the
> > judgment for others. Simply present what you like about your
> > framework, just the raw facts. If your readers aren't smart enough
> > to deduce that your feature is an improvement over the other
> > frameworks, then they aren't worth evangelizing too!
> > 3) Everyone wants to hear real-world stories. Lots of framework
> > ideas look good on paper and fall apart in production.
> >
> >
> > That said, what's with the shipping with 50 components. I'd hardly
> > call the form a component, even if it is built as a component. Do
> > you seriously think a framework could exist without that? Its like
> > an HTML editor software claiming they support 50 HTML tags!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lindsay Steele" <ls...@iinet.net.au>
> > To: "Tapestry users" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
> >
> >
> > >I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it.
> > >
> > > I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the
better
> > > it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things,
> > > being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure
> > > reasonable popularity - good marketing is always helpful.
> > >
> > > The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't
have
> > a
> > > big corporate entity that can throw all sorts
> > > of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent
> > > marketing has to be done by the users and giving them a few
> > > friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt.
> > >
> > > Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on
> > > good honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out
there.
> > >
> > > Francis Amanfo wrote:
> > >
> > >>Howard,
> > >>
> > >>This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no
> > >>suggetions as
> > to
> > >>how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to
> > >>be
> > spoon
> > >>fed.
> > >>
> > >>F
> > >>
> > >>On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Please visit the article,
> > >>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 ,
> > >>>and show your support for Tapestry.
> > >>>
> > >>>Guidelines:
> > >>>
> > >>>No bashing of other frameworks.
> > >>>
> > >>>No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and
> > >>>belligerant attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and
> > >>>will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.
> > >>>
> > >>>Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred
> > >>>Tapestry after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my
> > >>>productivity skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert
> > >>>favorite feature here> is simply amazing. I highly recommend
Tapestry."
> > >>>
> > >>>People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> > >>>example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> > >>>presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> > >>>request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> > >>>highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error
> > >>>handling is better."
> > >>>
> > >>>If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the
> > >>>user mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and
> > >>>pay back some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the
community.
> > >>>Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> > >>>Tapestry.
> > >>>
> > >>>--
> > >>>Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > >>>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant Creator, Jakarta
> > >>>Tapestry Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> > >>>
> > >>>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support and project
> > >>>work. http://howardlewisship.com
> > >>>
> > >>>-----------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>---- To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > >>>tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > >>>For additional commands, e-mail:
> > >>>tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --- To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > > tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > > tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > - To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> > tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Get help with Spindle:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
This is all a bunch of hot air. Howard is doing what he thinks he
needs to do in order to defend Tapestry interests. I'm sure he wasn't
talking down to anyone.
Geoff
On 1/10/06, Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm sure Howard's email was meant for the few overly ambitious zealout type
> of users that will sometimes blindly fight or insight flaming in a way that
> makes tapestry look weird. (I'm sure I've personally done this a few times
> at one point or another in my life..)
>
> Is it really this important? Who cares.. Cut him a break, he did create this
> awesome framework for us :)
>
> On 1/10/06, kranga <kr...@k2d2.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > These guidelines are nothing new. The essential principles are:
> >
> > 1) People respond to criticism negatively, however wrong they are and
> > however right you are. This is true of the person on death-row, the white
> > color criminal, the 80 year old grandma. Therefore, don't criticize.
> > 2) Never debate using empty superlatives. E.g. this framework is
> > faster/easier/nicer/ etc. This implies that you are making the judgment
> > for
> > others. Simply present what you like about your framework, just the raw
> > facts. If your readers aren't smart enough to deduce that your feature is
> > an
> > improvement over the other frameworks, then they aren't worth evangelizing
> > too!
> > 3) Everyone wants to hear real-world stories. Lots of framework ideas look
> > good on paper and fall apart in production.
> >
> >
> > That said, what's with the shipping with 50 components. I'd hardly call
> > the
> > form a component, even if it is built as a component. Do you seriously
> > think
> > a framework could exist without that? Its like an HTML editor software
> > claiming they support 50 HTML tags!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lindsay Steele" <ls...@iinet.net.au>
> > To: "Tapestry users" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:49 AM
> > Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
> >
> >
> > >I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it.
> > >
> > > I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the better
> > > it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things,
> > > being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure reasonable
> > > popularity - good marketing is always helpful.
> > >
> > > The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't have
> > a
> > > big corporate entity that can throw all sorts
> > > of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent
> > > marketing has to be done by the users and giving them
> > > a few friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt.
> > >
> > > Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on good
> > > honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out there.
> > >
> > > Francis Amanfo wrote:
> > >
> > >>Howard,
> > >>
> > >>This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no suggetions as
> > to
> > >>how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to be
> > spoon
> > >>fed.
> > >>
> > >>F
> > >>
> > >>On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Please visit the article,
> > >>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
> > >>>show your support for Tapestry.
> > >>>
> > >>>Guidelines:
> > >>>
> > >>>No bashing of other frameworks.
> > >>>
> > >>>No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
> > >>>attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
> > >>>against the wall when the revolution comes.
> > >>>
> > >>>Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
> > >>>after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
> > >>>skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
> > >>>simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
> > >>>
> > >>>People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> > >>>example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> > >>>presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> > >>>request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> > >>>highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
> > >>>is better."
> > >>>
> > >>>If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
> > >>>mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
> > >>>some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
> > >>>Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> > >>>Tapestry.
> > >>>
> > >>>--
> > >>>Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > >>>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> > >>>Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> > >>>Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> > >>>
> > >>>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> > >>>and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> > >>>
> > >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > >>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Get help with Spindle:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
Announcement Feed:
http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Jesse Kuhnert <jk...@gmail.com>.
I'm sure Howard's email was meant for the few overly ambitious zealout type
of users that will sometimes blindly fight or insight flaming in a way that
makes tapestry look weird. (I'm sure I've personally done this a few times
at one point or another in my life..)
Is it really this important? Who cares.. Cut him a break, he did create this
awesome framework for us :)
On 1/10/06, kranga <kr...@k2d2.org> wrote:
>
>
> These guidelines are nothing new. The essential principles are:
>
> 1) People respond to criticism negatively, however wrong they are and
> however right you are. This is true of the person on death-row, the white
> color criminal, the 80 year old grandma. Therefore, don't criticize.
> 2) Never debate using empty superlatives. E.g. this framework is
> faster/easier/nicer/ etc. This implies that you are making the judgment
> for
> others. Simply present what you like about your framework, just the raw
> facts. If your readers aren't smart enough to deduce that your feature is
> an
> improvement over the other frameworks, then they aren't worth evangelizing
> too!
> 3) Everyone wants to hear real-world stories. Lots of framework ideas look
> good on paper and fall apart in production.
>
>
> That said, what's with the shipping with 50 components. I'd hardly call
> the
> form a component, even if it is built as a component. Do you seriously
> think
> a framework could exist without that? Its like an HTML editor software
> claiming they support 50 HTML tags!
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lindsay Steele" <ls...@iinet.net.au>
> To: "Tapestry users" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
>
>
> >I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it.
> >
> > I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the better
> > it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things,
> > being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure reasonable
> > popularity - good marketing is always helpful.
> >
> > The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't have
> a
> > big corporate entity that can throw all sorts
> > of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent
> > marketing has to be done by the users and giving them
> > a few friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt.
> >
> > Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on good
> > honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out there.
> >
> > Francis Amanfo wrote:
> >
> >>Howard,
> >>
> >>This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no suggetions as
> to
> >>how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to be
> spoon
> >>fed.
> >>
> >>F
> >>
> >>On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Please visit the article,
> >>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
> >>>show your support for Tapestry.
> >>>
> >>>Guidelines:
> >>>
> >>>No bashing of other frameworks.
> >>>
> >>>No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
> >>>attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
> >>>against the wall when the revolution comes.
> >>>
> >>>Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
> >>>after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
> >>>skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
> >>>simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
> >>>
> >>>People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> >>>example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> >>>presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> >>>request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> >>>highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
> >>>is better."
> >>>
> >>>If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
> >>>mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
> >>>some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
> >>>Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> >>>Tapestry.
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>Howard M. Lewis Ship
> >>>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> >>>Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> >>>Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> >>>
> >>>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> >>>and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> >>>
> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by kranga <kr...@k2d2.org>.
These guidelines are nothing new. The essential principles are:
1) People respond to criticism negatively, however wrong they are and
however right you are. This is true of the person on death-row, the white
color criminal, the 80 year old grandma. Therefore, don't criticize.
2) Never debate using empty superlatives. E.g. this framework is
faster/easier/nicer/ etc. This implies that you are making the judgment for
others. Simply present what you like about your framework, just the raw
facts. If your readers aren't smart enough to deduce that your feature is an
improvement over the other frameworks, then they aren't worth evangelizing
too!
3) Everyone wants to hear real-world stories. Lots of framework ideas look
good on paper and fall apart in production.
That said, what's with the shipping with 50 components. I'd hardly call the
form a component, even if it is built as a component. Do you seriously think
a framework could exist without that? Its like an HTML editor software
claiming they support 50 HTML tags!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lindsay Steele" <ls...@iinet.net.au>
To: "Tapestry users" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
>I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it.
>
> I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the better
> it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things,
> being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure reasonable
> popularity - good marketing is always helpful.
>
> The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't have a
> big corporate entity that can throw all sorts
> of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent
> marketing has to be done by the users and giving them
> a few friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt.
>
> Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on good
> honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out there.
>
> Francis Amanfo wrote:
>
>>Howard,
>>
>>This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no suggetions as to
>>how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to be spoon
>>fed.
>>
>>F
>>
>>On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Please visit the article,
>>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
>>>show your support for Tapestry.
>>>
>>>Guidelines:
>>>
>>>No bashing of other frameworks.
>>>
>>>No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
>>>attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
>>>against the wall when the revolution comes.
>>>
>>>Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
>>>after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
>>>skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
>>>simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
>>>
>>>People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
>>>example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
>>>presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
>>>request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
>>>highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
>>>is better."
>>>
>>>If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
>>>mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
>>>some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
>>>Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
>>>Tapestry.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>>>Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>>>Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>>>
>>>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>>>and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Raul Raja Martinez <do...@estudiowebs.com>.
Totally agree with Lindsay, we all have invested our time in Tapestry
and we want to see Tapestry grow and always get better, I think those
are great guidelines. As guidelines you can ignore them if you don't
like them.
best regards.
Raul.
Lindsay Steele wrote:
> I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it.
>
> I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the better
> it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things,
> being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure reasonable
> popularity - good marketing is always helpful.
>
> The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't have
> a big corporate entity that can throw all sorts
> of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent
> marketing has to be done by the users and giving them
> a few friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt.
>
> Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on good
> honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out there.
>
> Francis Amanfo wrote:
>
>> Howard,
>>
>> This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no suggetions
>> as to
>> how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to be
>> spoon
>> fed.
>>
>> F
>>
>> On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Please visit the article,
>>> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
>>> show your support for Tapestry.
>>>
>>> Guidelines:
>>>
>>> No bashing of other frameworks.
>>>
>>> No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
>>> attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
>>> against the wall when the revolution comes.
>>>
>>> Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
>>> after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
>>> skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
>>> simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
>>>
>>> People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
>>> example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
>>> presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
>>> request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
>>> highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
>>> is better."
>>>
>>> If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
>>> mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
>>> some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
>>> Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
>>> Tapestry.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>>> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>>> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>>>
>>> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>>> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Lindsay Steele <ls...@iinet.net.au>.
I think Howards email was great, you take what you want out of it.
I think everyone can agree that the more Tapestry flourishes, the better
it is for it's users and the product itself. Like many things,
being a good product alone is not aways good enough to ensure reasonable
popularity - good marketing is always helpful.
The thing is, unlike some other new frameworks, Tapestry doesn't have
a big corporate entity that can throw all sorts
of resources at it for marketing purposes. To a certain extent
marketing has to be done by the users and giving them
a few friendly tips on how to market it better is not going to hurt.
Good on Howard for giving people a heads up on news items, tips on good
honest marketing and encouraging people to get the word out there.
Francis Amanfo wrote:
>Howard,
>
>This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no suggetions as to
>how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to be spoon
>fed.
>
>F
>
>On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Please visit the article,
>>http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
>>show your support for Tapestry.
>>
>>Guidelines:
>>
>>No bashing of other frameworks.
>>
>>No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
>>attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
>>against the wall when the revolution comes.
>>
>>Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
>>after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
>>skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
>>simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
>>
>>People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
>>example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
>>presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
>>request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
>>highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
>>is better."
>>
>>If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
>>mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
>>some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
>>Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
>>Tapestry.
>>
>>--
>>Howard M. Lewis Ship
>>Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
>>Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
>>Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>>
>>Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
>>and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Francis Amanfo <fa...@gmail.com>.
Howard,
This is really cheating! We are all grown ups and need no suggetions as to
how we should compose our e-mails. We are not babies that need to be spoon
fed.
F
On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please visit the article,
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
> show your support for Tapestry.
>
> Guidelines:
>
> No bashing of other frameworks.
>
> No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
> attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
> against the wall when the revolution comes.
>
> Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
> after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
> skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
> simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
>
> People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
> is better."
>
> If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
> mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
> some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
> Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> Tapestry.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
Oh man don't start with Barney. My 3 year old got a Barney dvd for
christmas and not only has he almost worn it out - his mother and I
are ready to scream!!!
G
On 1/11/06, gaz jones <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> how dare you to me what to do O_O lol
>
> i think it is very easy to mistake the tone of something in an
> email... its happened to me a few times in the past and i now i
> imagine a friendly voice reading emails to me in my head, something
> like barney the dinosaur... you cant be angry at barney!!
>
> i posted a comment on serverside about moving from .net to tapestry...
> least i could do given amount of work all the developers must have put
> in. cheers dudes.
>
>
> On 1/11/06, Filip S. Adamsen <fi...@stubkjaer-adamsen.dk> wrote:
> > Take a look at what you wrote...
> >
> > Francis Amanfo wrote:
> > > Geoff,
> > >
> > > Stop spending your time playing police and spend it instead on making
> > > Spindle Tap 4 compatible!
> > >
> > > F
> >
> > Then consider if you owe Geoff an apology.
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Get help with Spindle:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by gaz jones <ga...@gmail.com>.
how dare you to me what to do O_O lol
i think it is very easy to mistake the tone of something in an
email... its happened to me a few times in the past and i now i
imagine a friendly voice reading emails to me in my head, something
like barney the dinosaur... you cant be angry at barney!!
i posted a comment on serverside about moving from .net to tapestry...
least i could do given amount of work all the developers must have put
in. cheers dudes.
On 1/11/06, Filip S. Adamsen <fi...@stubkjaer-adamsen.dk> wrote:
> Take a look at what you wrote...
>
> Francis Amanfo wrote:
> > Geoff,
> >
> > Stop spending your time playing police and spend it instead on making
> > Spindle Tap 4 compatible!
> >
> > F
>
> Then consider if you owe Geoff an apology.
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by "Filip S. Adamsen" <fi...@stubkjaer-adamsen.dk>.
Take a look at what you wrote...
Francis Amanfo wrote:
> Geoff,
>
> Stop spending your time playing police and spend it instead on making
> Spindle Tap 4 compatible!
>
> F
Then consider if you owe Geoff an apology.
Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Francis Amanfo <fa...@gmail.com>.
Geoff,
Stop spending your time playing police and spend it instead on making
Spindle Tap 4 compatible!
F
On 1/10/06, Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This is degenerating. The Tapestry list has progressed for something
> like 5 years (SF+Apache) with useful discourse and little useless
> blathering. This is the closest I've seen the list has ever come to a
> flame war. (if you except the JBOSS dude's post years ago).
>
> If Howard said something dumb, he'll get it and make it right.
>
> Geoff
>
> On 1/10/06, Francis Amanfo <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Howard,
> >
> > You also said "No bashing of other frameworks." yet you went ahead and
> did
> > exactly that with this post at TSS:
> > http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407#196558
> >
> > That's not nice.
> >
> > F
> >
> >
> > On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Please visit the article,
> > > http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
> > > show your support for Tapestry.
> > >
> > > Guidelines:
> > >
> > > No bashing of other frameworks.
> > >
> > > No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
> > > attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
> > > against the wall when the revolution comes.
> > >
> > > Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
> > > after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
> > > skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
> > > simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
> > >
> > > People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> > > example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> > > presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> > > request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> > > highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
> > > is better."
> > >
> > > If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
> > > mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
> > > some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
> > > Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> > > Tapestry.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > > Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> > > Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> > > Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> > >
> > > Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> > > and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
> Get help with Spindle:
> http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
> Announcement Feed:
> http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
> Feature Updates: http://spindle.sf.net/updates
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Geoff Longman <gl...@gmail.com>.
This is degenerating. The Tapestry list has progressed for something
like 5 years (SF+Apache) with useful discourse and little useless
blathering. This is the closest I've seen the list has ever come to a
flame war. (if you except the JBOSS dude's post years ago).
If Howard said something dumb, he'll get it and make it right.
Geoff
On 1/10/06, Francis Amanfo <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Howard,
>
> You also said "No bashing of other frameworks." yet you went ahead and did
> exactly that with this post at TSS:
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407#196558
>
> That's not nice.
>
> F
>
>
> On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Please visit the article,
> > http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
> > show your support for Tapestry.
> >
> > Guidelines:
> >
> > No bashing of other frameworks.
> >
> > No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
> > attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
> > against the wall when the revolution comes.
> >
> > Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
> > after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
> > skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
> > simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
> >
> > People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> > example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> > presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> > request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> > highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
> > is better."
> >
> > If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
> > mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
> > some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
> > Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> > Tapestry.
> >
> > --
> > Howard M. Lewis Ship
> > Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> > Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> > Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
> >
> > Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> > and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
--
The Spindle guy. http://spindle.sf.net
Get help with Spindle:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/spindle-user
Announcement Feed:
http://www.jroller.com/rss/glongman?catname=/Announcements
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Re: Tapestry 4.0 Release Notice on TheServerSide
Posted by Francis Amanfo <fa...@gmail.com>.
Howard,
You also said "No bashing of other frameworks." yet you went ahead and did
exactly that with this post at TSS:
http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407#196558
That's not nice.
F
On 1/9/06, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Please visit the article,
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=38407 , and
> show your support for Tapestry.
>
> Guidelines:
>
> No bashing of other frameworks.
>
> No flamewars. Be polite. Many will have closed minds and belligerant
> attitudes. They can not be saved from themselves, and will be first
> against the wall when the revolution comes.
>
> Simple is better. Say something like "I just discoverred Tapestry
> after using StrutsWorkMVC and was amazed at how fast my productivity
> skyrocketted. The fact that you can <insert favorite feature here> is
> simply amazing. I highly recommend Tapestry."
>
> People will respond to anecodotes better than vague praise. For
> example "When you make mistakes, Tapestry does an amazing job of
> presenting the exception to you, with a flood of data about the
> request and session, and even a snippet from the template file
> highlighting the error." This is better than "Tapestry error handling
> is better."
>
> If you use Tapestry or have ever benefitted from support on the user
> mailing list, this is your chance to take five minutes and pay back
> some of the effort the Tapestry team has invested in the community.
> Major releases are a chance to generate more excitement around
> Tapestry.
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
> Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
> Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
> Creator, Jakarta HiveMind
>
> Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
> and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>