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Posted to batik-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org by Jamie Browning <ja...@exponent.co.uk> on 2004/06/15 15:13:34 UTC
All quiet on the SVG front
All
Can anyone enlighten me as to the current status of the Batik project?
From posts over the last month I have ascertained a number of cryptic
details which lead me to believe that Batik development has stopped due
to some argument over the terms of the Apache license.
Is Batik owned by any 1 organisation or has development stopped by order
of any organisation? If not why have we (batik-developers) not been kept
informed about what is happening? And why, if this is a disagreement
between some of the commiters employers and Apache, have we not heard a
call for additional developers to move into those roles. Surely the
continued development of Batik is the primary interest of ALL developers.
I know less about the current Batik status than I do about the next
Adobe release ;-).
Someone please correct my ignorance.
Jamie
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@aka.mcc.id.au>.
Vincent Hardy:
> I already sent the request to root@apache.org with the result of the
> vote. Have you not received confirmation? I sent the request 6/17.
No, I haven't heard anything.
--
Cameron McCormack
| Web: http://mcc.id.au/
| ICQ: 26955922
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Vincent Hardy <Vi...@Sun.COM>.
Cameron,
I already sent the request to root@apache.org with the result of the
vote. Have you not received confirmation? I sent the request 6/17.
Vincent.
Cameron McCormack wrote:
>Jeremias Maerki:
>
>
>>thanks for the follow-up. I've found the mail but it looks like all the
>>attachments got filtered (EML attachements considered invalid). I think
>>it's best if Cameron indicated his preferred unix user account ID and
>>the mail address he'd like to have mails to his Apache address forwarded
>>to. Then an account request form should be sent to root@apache.org
>>cc'ing the PMC and again attaching the vote results. Provided Cameron's
>>CLA is already on file (Cameron?), then everything should happen pretty
>>quickly from then on.
>>
>>
>
>Yes I did tell Vincent my preferred username. I should have a CLA on
>file already. I didn't mention what mail address I'd like to have mails
>forwarded to, though, which would be cam-apache (at) aka.mcc.id.au.
>
>Cameron
>
>
>
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@aka.mcc.id.au>.
Jeremias Maerki:
> thanks for the follow-up. I've found the mail but it looks like all the
> attachments got filtered (EML attachements considered invalid). I think
> it's best if Cameron indicated his preferred unix user account ID and
> the mail address he'd like to have mails to his Apache address forwarded
> to. Then an account request form should be sent to root@apache.org
> cc'ing the PMC and again attaching the vote results. Provided Cameron's
> CLA is already on file (Cameron?), then everything should happen pretty
> quickly from then on.
Yes I did tell Vincent my preferred username. I should have a CLA on
file already. I didn't mention what mail address I'd like to have mails
forwarded to, though, which would be cam-apache (at) aka.mcc.id.au.
Cameron
--
Cameron McCormack
| Web: http://mcc.id.au/
| ICQ: 26955922
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Hi Thomas,
thanks for the follow-up. I've found the mail but it looks like all the
attachments got filtered (EML attachements considered invalid). I think
it's best if Cameron indicated his preferred unix user account ID and
the mail address he'd like to have mails to his Apache address forwarded
to. Then an account request form should be sent to root@apache.org
cc'ing the PMC and again attaching the vote results. Provided Cameron's
CLA is already on file (Cameron?), then everything should happen pretty
quickly from then on.
On 21.06.2004 12:20:49 Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Hi Jeremias,
>
> It was unfortunately taken 'off-list'. I've forwarded the
> message I sent to the XML-PMC, which had the vote messages
> as attachments.
>
> Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>
> > Hi Vincent,
> >
> > can you give me a pointer to the vote? I didn't find it in the archives.
> > If I can help with the account request just tell me. I'm quite familiar
> > with the process in the meantime having recruited a number of new
> > committer over in FOP-land.
> >
> > Cameron, please report back on your progress. Thanks!
> >
> > On 16.06.2004 15:19:04 Vincent Hardy wrote:
> >
> >>Hello Cameron,
> >>
> >>Cameron McCormack wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>[...]
> >>>
> >>>I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
> >>>but nothing ever came of it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Actually, Thomas asked for a vote from the commiters and we got positive
> >>votes from all the ones who responded (I counted 8 positive votes). I
> >>did not get a request to move to the next step, but may be Thomas
> >>assumed he was done and we were in a dead-lock situation... bummer.
> >>
> >>In any event, the next step is for you to sign the contributor license
> >>agreement. Then, I'll be able to request access to the CVS repository
> >>and you'll be able to access the CVS repository.
> >>
> >>I'll send you the documentation and instruction in a private email,
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Vincent Hardy <Vi...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Jeremias,
The vote happened as a result of an email Thomas sent to the commiters
directly. I already sent the request to root@apache.org, following the
same process we had for previous commiters.
Vincent.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
>Hi Vincent,
>
>can you give me a pointer to the vote? I didn't find it in the archives.
>If I can help with the account request just tell me. I'm quite familiar
>with the process in the meantime having recruited a number of new
>committer over in FOP-land.
>
>Cameron, please report back on your progress. Thanks!
>
>On 16.06.2004 15:19:04 Vincent Hardy wrote:
>
>
>>Hello Cameron,
>>
>>Cameron McCormack wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
>>>but nothing ever came of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Actually, Thomas asked for a vote from the commiters and we got positive
>>votes from all the ones who responded (I counted 8 positive votes). I
>>did not get a request to move to the next step, but may be Thomas
>>assumed he was done and we were in a dead-lock situation... bummer.
>>
>>In any event, the next step is for you to sign the contributor license
>>agreement. Then, I'll be able to request access to the CVS repository
>>and you'll be able to access the CVS repository.
>>
>>I'll send you the documentation and instruction in a private email,
>>
>>
>
>
>Jeremias Maerki
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com>.
Hi Jeremias,
It was unfortunately taken 'off-list'. I've forwarded the
message I sent to the XML-PMC, which had the vote messages
as attachments.
Jeremias Maerki wrote:
> Hi Vincent,
>
> can you give me a pointer to the vote? I didn't find it in the archives.
> If I can help with the account request just tell me. I'm quite familiar
> with the process in the meantime having recruited a number of new
> committer over in FOP-land.
>
> Cameron, please report back on your progress. Thanks!
>
> On 16.06.2004 15:19:04 Vincent Hardy wrote:
>
>>Hello Cameron,
>>
>>Cameron McCormack wrote:
>>
>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
>>>but nothing ever came of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Actually, Thomas asked for a vote from the commiters and we got positive
>>votes from all the ones who responded (I counted 8 positive votes). I
>>did not get a request to move to the next step, but may be Thomas
>>assumed he was done and we were in a dead-lock situation... bummer.
>>
>>In any event, the next step is for you to sign the contributor license
>>agreement. Then, I'll be able to request access to the CVS repository
>>and you'll be able to access the CVS repository.
>>
>>I'll send you the documentation and instruction in a private email,
>
>
>
> Jeremias Maerki
>
>
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Hi Vincent,
can you give me a pointer to the vote? I didn't find it in the archives.
If I can help with the account request just tell me. I'm quite familiar
with the process in the meantime having recruited a number of new
committer over in FOP-land.
Cameron, please report back on your progress. Thanks!
On 16.06.2004 15:19:04 Vincent Hardy wrote:
> Hello Cameron,
>
> Cameron McCormack wrote:
>
> > [...]
> >
> >I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
> >but nothing ever came of it.
> >
> >
> >
> Actually, Thomas asked for a vote from the commiters and we got positive
> votes from all the ones who responded (I counted 8 positive votes). I
> did not get a request to move to the next step, but may be Thomas
> assumed he was done and we were in a dead-lock situation... bummer.
>
> In any event, the next step is for you to sign the contributor license
> agreement. Then, I'll be able to request access to the CVS repository
> and you'll be able to access the CVS repository.
>
> I'll send you the documentation and instruction in a private email,
Jeremias Maerki
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Jeremias Maerki <de...@greenmail.ch>.
Apache owns the copyright so it "owns" the project, sort of. On the
other side it's the committers who run the project. With no active
committers the project obviously can't go forward. Let's hope that
Vincent and/or Thomas can come back into the game soon. When Cameron
McCormack gets his account things can also start to get better, I hope.
Furthermore it's also the community around Batik (read: not only the
committers) that can help in this project. Those who care about the
project need to work together to revive it. Everyone has the right to
make proposals, to express their opinion. Obviously, without active
committers who actually manage the project this is difficult. But this
shouldn't stop anyone on improving the codebase and place patches.
That's the best way to show that you care and it's what the project
needs most. And I'm sure we can find a way to recruit new committers
even if there are no active committers (via the PMC). If Batik appears
dead (which, fortunately, it isn't) you can always address the XML PMC
(general@xml.apache.org or pmc@xml.apache.org) with any concerns.
On 16.06.2004 12:07:24 Jamie Browning wrote:
> But who owns Batik? Apache or the current "committers"? This IS an
> important point. We (my company) wish to use Batik in our projects, but
> we need to have a clear idea about where it is going and what sort of
> support we may/may not need to anticipate.
Jeremias Maerki
FOP committer
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Tonny Kohar <to...@kiyut.com>.
Hi,
On Wed, 2004-06-16 at 16:40, Cameron McCormack wrote:
> Tonny Kohar:
> > Do you have any cvs write access privileges?
>
> I don't think so; I never tried. I would need to have been given a
> username and password, right?
Yes, I think you need some username and password. see the post from
Vincent Hardy.
Best Regards
Tonny Kohar
--
Sketsa
SVG Graphics Editor
http://www.kiyut.com
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@aka.mcc.id.au>.
Tonny Kohar:
> Do you have any cvs write access privileges?
I don't think so; I never tried. I would need to have been given a
username and password, right?
--
Cameron McCormack
| Web: http://mcc.id.au/
| ICQ: 26955922
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Tonny Kohar <to...@kiyut.com>.
Hi,
> I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
> but nothing ever came of it.
Do you have any cvs write access privileges?
Regards
Tonny Kohar
--
Sketsa
SVG Graphics Editor
http://www.kiyut.com
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Tonny Kohar <to...@kiyut.com>.
Hi,
> More good news, I should be resuming my participation in the Batik
> Project. Apologies for the 'lull in the action'.
This is good news :)
> I will try and go back and respond to major issues/questions
> but the community may need to be reminded of questions that went
> unanswered in the past.
Yes, it is a good idea. My suggestion is to look at the bugzilla.
Best Regards
Tonny Kohar
--
Sketsa
SVG Graphics Editor
http://www.kiyut.com
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Chimera <ch...@ennersea.net>.
Good to hear, Thomas. Welcome back, you've been missed.
Are we to take it that your Apache questions were answered in a positive
manner?
Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> More good news, I should be resuming my participation in the Batik
> Project. Apologies for the 'lull in the action'.
>
> I will try and go back and respond to major issues/questions
> but the community may need to be reminded of questions that went
> unanswered in the past.
>
> My thanks to all the people who have stepped in during my absence
> to answer questions and helped to keep the Batik community alive.
> However, don't think you can all go away now that I will be answering
> some questions ;)
>
> Tonny Kohar wrote:
>
>> Whoa, finally the Batik project have active commiter again. This is a
>> good start after long stagnation. In other things, I hope Thomas will
>> be back again as usual.
>>
>> Regards
>> Tonny Kohar
>
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Jamie Browning <ja...@exponent.co.uk>.
Thomas DeWeese wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> More good news, I should be resuming my participation in the Batik
> Project. Apologies for the 'lull in the action'.
>
Good news indeed Thomas
> My thanks to all the people who have stepped in during my absence
> to answer questions and helped to keep the Batik community alive.
> However, don't think you can all go away now that I will be answering
> some questions ;)
I think the recent 'lull' has highlighted the need for more active
participation from those who have the time and inclination.
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com>.
Hi all,
More good news, I should be resuming my participation in the Batik
Project. Apologies for the 'lull in the action'.
I will try and go back and respond to major issues/questions
but the community may need to be reminded of questions that went
unanswered in the past.
My thanks to all the people who have stepped in during my absence
to answer questions and helped to keep the Batik community alive.
However, don't think you can all go away now that I will be answering
some questions ;)
Tonny Kohar wrote:
> Whoa, finally the Batik project have active commiter again. This is a
> good start after long stagnation.
> In other things, I hope Thomas will be back again as usual.
>
> Regards
> Tonny Kohar
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Thomas DeWeese <Th...@Kodak.com>.
Hi all,
More good news, I should be resuming my participation in the Batik
Project. Apologies for the 'lull in the action'.
I will try and go back and respond to major issues/questions
but the community may need to be reminded of questions that went
unanswered in the past.
My thanks to all the people who have stepped in during my absence
to answer questions and helped to keep the Batik community alive.
However, don't think you can all go away now that I will be answering
some questions ;)
Tonny Kohar wrote:
> Whoa, finally the Batik project have active commiter again. This is a
> good start after long stagnation.
> In other things, I hope Thomas will be back again as usual.
>
> Regards
> Tonny Kohar
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Tonny Kohar <to...@kiyut.com>.
Hi,
> In any event, the next step is for you to sign the contributor license
> agreement. Then, I'll be able to request access to the CVS repository
> and you'll be able to access the CVS repository.
Whoa, finally the Batik project have active commiter again. This is a
good start after long stagnation.
In other things, I hope Thomas will be back again as usual.
Regards
Tonny Kohar
--
Sketsa
SVG Graphics Editor
http://www.kiyut.com
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Vincent Hardy <Vi...@Sun.COM>.
Hello Cameron,
Cameron McCormack wrote:
> [...]
>
>I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
>but nothing ever came of it.
>
>
>
Actually, Thomas asked for a vote from the commiters and we got positive
votes from all the ones who responded (I counted 8 positive votes). I
did not get a request to move to the next step, but may be Thomas
assumed he was done and we were in a dead-lock situation... bummer.
In any event, the next step is for you to sign the contributor license
agreement. Then, I'll be able to request access to the CVS repository
and you'll be able to access the CVS repository.
I'll send you the documentation and instruction in a private email,
Regards,
Vincent.
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@aka.mcc.id.au>.
Jamie Browning:
> Has it? Where have you read/seen this?
The latest SVG working draft from last month. I hear that a new one
will be out soon!
--
Cameron McCormack
| Web: http://mcc.id.au/
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Jamie Browning <ja...@exponent.co.uk>.
Cameron McCormack wrote:
>>But who owns Batik? Apache or the current "committers"? This IS an
>>important point. We (my company) wish to use Batik in our projects, but
>>we need to have a clear idea about where it is going and what sort of
>>support we may/may not need to anticipate. The example I used was
>>Rendering Custom Content (RCC) which is proposed in the SVG 1.2. spec.
>>
>>
>
>(Which has been dropped in favour of XBL.)
>
Has it? Where have you read/seen this?
> I don't think forking Batik
>is a good idea. Just get some life in to the project in the form of
>some more developers.
>
I agree
>I saw Vincent at the webapps workshop the other
>week, but I didn't speak to him. :/
>
>
I imagine all those guys are pretty depressed at the current state of
affairs. And to be fair it has shamed me in to taking more notice of the
Users list and attempting help out if I can.
Jamie
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@aka.mcc.id.au>.
Jamie Browning:
> I think the Batik developers have done a truly amazing job so far and
> they deserve all the credit for this project. So I don't want to tread
> on anyones toes here because I don't know what is happening...
Certainly they have done great work.
> But who owns Batik? Apache or the current "committers"? This IS an
> important point. We (my company) wish to use Batik in our projects, but
> we need to have a clear idea about where it is going and what sort of
> support we may/may not need to anticipate. The example I used was
> Rendering Custom Content (RCC) which is proposed in the SVG 1.2. spec.
(Which has been dropped in favour of XBL.) I don't think forking Batik
is a good idea. Just get some life in to the project in the form of
some more developers. I saw Vincent at the webapps workshop the other
week, but I didn't speak to him. :/
--
Cameron McCormack
| Web: http://mcc.id.au/
| ICQ: 26955922
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Jamie Browning <ja...@exponent.co.uk>.
Cameron McCormack wrote:
>I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
>but nothing ever came of it.
>
>
>
I think the Batik developers have done a truly amazing job so far and
they deserve all the credit for this project. So I don't want to tread
on anyones toes here because I don't know what is happening...
But who owns Batik? Apache or the current "committers"? This IS an
important point. We (my company) wish to use Batik in our projects, but
we need to have a clear idea about where it is going and what sort of
support we may/may not need to anticipate. The example I used was
Rendering Custom Content (RCC) which is proposed in the SVG 1.2. spec.
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Cameron McCormack <ca...@aka.mcc.id.au>.
Tonny Kohar:
> Indeed, it is interesting situation. This stagnan situation could lead
> to fork in batik project (developers included its own version of Batik),
> since the enhancement/bug fixes could not be submited and included in
> the batik project.
>
> IMHO what I think is someone stand up for commiter or have cvs write
> access, so any bug fixes & enhancement could be included in the Batik
> and Batik project continue. When the existing commiter finally somehow
> able to solve the problem with Apache or vice versa, they will take
> active role again as commiter. Then everyone will happy and Batik
> project continue.
I think Vincent and Thomas agreed at one stage to make me a committer,
but nothing ever came of it.
--
Cameron McCormack
| Web: http://mcc.id.au/
| ICQ: 26955922
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Re: All quiet on the SVG front
Posted by Tonny Kohar <to...@kiyut.com>.
Hi,
> Is Batik owned by any 1 organisation or has development stopped by order
> of any organisation? If not why have we (batik-developers) not been kept
> informed about what is happening? And why, if this is a disagreement
> between some of the commiters employers and Apache, have we not heard a
> call for additional developers to move into those roles. Surely the
> continued development of Batik is the primary interest of ALL developers.
Indeed, it is interesting situation. This stagnan situation could lead
to fork in batik project (developers included its own version of Batik),
since the enhancement/bug fixes could not be submited and included in
the batik project.
IMHO what I think is someone stand up for commiter or have cvs write
access, so any bug fixes & enhancement could be included in the Batik
and Batik project continue. When the existing commiter finally somehow
able to solve the problem with Apache or vice versa, they will take
active role again as commiter. Then everyone will happy and Batik
project continue.
Regards
Tonny Kohar
--
Sketsa
SVG Graphics Editor
http://www.kiyut.com
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