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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> on 2014/10/01 22:34:37 UTC
Concerns about the AOO community
On G+ I have hold a conversation with Bruce Byfield and Jos from KDE
about the continuation of the Apache OpenOffice community and how the
way that the community has enter lately into a dormant stage with very
little traffic.
Althought I do seem that is an exageration, I feel that is true that
traffic has reach its lowest in several months. I wonder what is going
on with the community as well as overal adoption and concern of a lack
of marketing strategy.
I would love to hear from the community managers to have an evaluation.
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Dave Barton <db...@tasit.net> wrote:
> Chuck Davis wrote:
> > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately
> > indicating interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them
> > sticks and becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very
> > good position I think.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > My observations regarding LO: 1) They've copied some features from
> > MS Office that make it equally difficult to use....It's not as
> > pleasant to use as AOO.
>
> Can you please give some specific examples of what you mean by "copied
> some features from MS Office"?
>
> I have been an OOo user since Sun (theoretically) open sourced the code
> and today I use/test both AOO and LO. Can you please enlighten me in
> what way LO is more difficult to use than AOO? I am obviously missing
> something, because I find them equally pleasant to use.
>
> > It's very unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of
> > AOO.
>
> That's mainly because a number of the distros were already unhappy about
> the control Sun/Oracle held over the code. When TDF/LO was formed some
> of code from the (distro driven) Go-OO fork was merged into LO. This
> happened well before Oracle gave the OOo trademark and domain name to
> the ASF.
>
> > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
> > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>
> Sorry, but this is just FUD. Ignoring the Weir - Vignoli blog battle and
> other external sources, please give examples of "Their constant AOO
> bashing" on any the TDF/LO controlled sources (eg. website, mailing
> lists, etc.). For every instance you can sight, I can match two for one
> the near vitriol I have seen poured out on this list alone.
>
> In another part of this thread there is talk of "better cooperation"
> between the two projects. Comments such as "I don't think I want their
> people in our camp." only serve to further promote the silly negative
> "us & them" attitude. It is not a competition, because neither project
> is selling anything.
>
> Reality Check: Other than the occasional "defector" :)) (in both
> directions) you don't have to concern yourself about "their people"
> moving into "your camp". There is no possibility that TDF is going give
> up years of hard work and expense and hand LO over to the ASF, any more
> than there is of the ASF handing AOO over to TDF.
>
> > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing
> > it with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me
> > any language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
> > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially
> > now that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked
> > on by every major player except MS.
>
> The movement to "get rid of" Java has been around even before Sun sold
> out to Oracle. There are developers working on AOO code today who are on
> record promoting the removal or reduced reliance on Java.
>
> Python is also supported by AOO.
>
> > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
> > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>
> Is this just "fan-boy" talk, or can you sight anything to substantiate
> this (apparently ill-informed) claim. I closely follow the development
> of both projects and my experience is very different to yours.
>
> > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
> > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
> > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
> > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>
> True. Hopefully it will not be too long before the fruits of these
> projects are incorporated into AOO.
>
> The TDF has been closely involved with external projects working on
> improvements to the ODF <-> OOXML document compatibility. I don't have
> the details to hand right now, but IIRC the code improvements are, or
> will be, made available under Apache License, Version 2.0
>
Not so sure this is practical, but a noble goal, nonetheless; i.e. spirit
of genuine open source cooperation.
>
> > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability
> > over glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms
> > they're not developers the project needs. Those of us in business
> > just need a tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy
> > -- just dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>
> Please, please, please can we stop this childish nonsense.
+1, let's move on from unproductive bashing. Pls.
> There is no
> reason why we should care, one way or the other, if LO is worse or
> better than AOO. Our only interests should be:
>
> 1. Making AOO as good as we can possibly make it.
>
> 2. Where possible work cooperatively with TDF and others in the interest
> of promoting and improving ODF. We already do this on matters of security.
>
Indeed.
>
> It is highly unlikely that AOO is going to die or disappear in the
> foreseeable future and the same holds true for LO. If, for whatever
> reason. the existence of TDF/LO upsets anyone here, I suggest they get
> over it and move on.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Dave Barton <db...@tasit.net>.
Chuck Davis wrote:
> I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately
> indicating interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them
> sticks and becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very
> good position I think.
Agreed.
> My observations regarding LO: 1) They've copied some features from
> MS Office that make it equally difficult to use....It's not as
> pleasant to use as AOO.
Can you please give some specific examples of what you mean by "copied
some features from MS Office"?
I have been an OOo user since Sun (theoretically) open sourced the code
and today I use/test both AOO and LO. Can you please enlighten me in
what way LO is more difficult to use than AOO? I am obviously missing
something, because I find them equally pleasant to use.
> It's very unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of
> AOO.
That's mainly because a number of the distros were already unhappy about
the control Sun/Oracle held over the code. When TDF/LO was formed some
of code from the (distro driven) Go-OO fork was merged into LO. This
happened well before Oracle gave the OOo trademark and domain name to
the ASF.
> 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
> others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
Sorry, but this is just FUD. Ignoring the Weir - Vignoli blog battle and
other external sources, please give examples of "Their constant AOO
bashing" on any the TDF/LO controlled sources (eg. website, mailing
lists, etc.). For every instance you can sight, I can match two for one
the near vitriol I have seen poured out on this list alone.
In another part of this thread there is talk of "better cooperation"
between the two projects. Comments such as "I don't think I want their
people in our camp." only serve to further promote the silly negative
"us & them" attitude. It is not a competition, because neither project
is selling anything.
Reality Check: Other than the occasional "defector" :)) (in both
directions) you don't have to concern yourself about "their people"
moving into "your camp". There is no possibility that TDF is going give
up years of hard work and expense and hand LO over to the ASF, any more
than there is of the ASF handing AOO over to TDF.
> 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing
> it with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me
> any language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
> just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially
> now that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked
> on by every major player except MS.
The movement to "get rid of" Java has been around even before Sun sold
out to Oracle. There are developers working on AOO code today who are on
record promoting the removal or reduced reliance on Java.
Python is also supported by AOO.
> 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
> several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
Is this just "fan-boy" talk, or can you sight anything to substantiate
this (apparently ill-informed) claim. I closely follow the development
of both projects and my experience is very different to yours.
> These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
> Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
> that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
> new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
True. Hopefully it will not be too long before the fruits of these
projects are incorporated into AOO.
The TDF has been closely involved with external projects working on
improvements to the ODF <-> OOXML document compatibility. I don't have
the details to hand right now, but IIRC the code improvements are, or
will be, made available under Apache License, Version 2.0
> My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability
> over glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms
> they're not developers the project needs. Those of us in business
> just need a tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy
> -- just dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
Please, please, please can we stop this childish nonsense. There is no
reason why we should care, one way or the other, if LO is worse or
better than AOO. Our only interests should be:
1. Making AOO as good as we can possibly make it.
2. Where possible work cooperatively with TDF and others in the interest
of promoting and improving ODF. We already do this on matters of security.
It is highly unlikely that AOO is going to die or disappear in the
foreseeable future and the same holds true for LO. If, for whatever
reason. the existence of TDF/LO upsets anyone here, I suggest they get
over it and move on.
Dave
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On 10/02/2014 11:18 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On 10/2/14, Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I swear I am technically savvy, but I have not found an easy link to the
>> materials you reference.
>>
>> I start at the homepage - www.openoffice.org
>>
>> I click on "I want to participate in OpenOffice" link which takes me here:
>> http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>>
>> I clink on the New Volunteer Orientation Modules
>> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html> link which takes me
>> here: http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html
>>
>> I click on the Introduction to Development
>> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html> link
>> which takes me here:
>> http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html
>>
>> I click on the Building Guide
>> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO> link
>> which takes me here:
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>
>> That page has no instructions for how to build on Mac OS X, but it does
>> have a link titled Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms
>> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step>
>> which
>> of course looks very promising.
>>
>> But when you click on that link, it takes you here:
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>>
>> And that page offers detailed instructions for Ubuntu and Windows, but has
>> no links whatsoever to any materials regarding Mac OS X.
>>
>> When I click on the link that you provided, I see the requirements for Mac
>> OS X and I see how to get started that is very helpful.
>>
>> But compare that to the LibreOffice materials. I google "LibreOffice on Mac
>> OS X" and I get the following link:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnMac
>>
>> I go to that link and it has step by step instructions on what to do.
>>
>> I'm smart enough to be able to find what I am looking for, but I'm just
>> saying that as a total newcomer to both projects LibreOffice made it much
>> easier.
>
> Perhaps the thinking was that mantaining 3 guides is more dificult
> than having just 1 guide with annotation for each platform.
I think this is an accurate statement.
Of course, based on the comments in this thread, we certainly could
shorten the path to finding information.
The nice thing about having the development information on the wiki is
having developers contribute, especially, to the platform specific areas.
>
> However it only took me a few seconds figuring out where the OSX
> information was. But if you think that mantaining 3 guides is the way
> to go, you can make the comment at doc@openoffice
>
> There are also some formating that could definetly help like having
> special alerts and notes for the wiki which you can find here:
> {{Documentation/Caution| some text }}
> {{Documentation/Notes| some text }}
>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes
>>> <romansausarnes@gmail.com
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved
>>>> in
>>>> one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>>>>
>>>> The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>>>> newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for
>>>> how
>>> to
>>>> get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>>>> ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>>>> instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>>>> first time on my machine.
>>>>
>>>> The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
>>> for
>>>> the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>>>> found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set
>>> of
>>>> instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>>>> that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>>>> resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
>>> modules
>>> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
>>> want
>>> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
>>> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
>>> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
>>> including OSX.
>>>
>>> All in all is 4 clicks:
>>> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>>> )
>>>
>>> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do
>>> it
>>>> and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
>>>> along, but you can understand how a person who is given two
>>>> opportunities
>>>> is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
>>>> work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>>>>
>>>> Just my two cents.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
>>>>> interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
>>>>> becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position
>>>>> I
>>>>> think.
>>>>>
>>>>> My observations regarding LO:
>>>>> 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
>>>>> difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
>>>>> unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
>>>>> 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
>>>>> others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>>>>> 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing
>>>>> it
>>>>> with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
>>>>> language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
>>>>> just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
>>>>> that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on
>>>>> by
>>>>> every major player except MS.
>>>>> 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
>>>>> several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
>>>>> Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
>>>>> that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
>>>>> new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>>>>>
>>>>> My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability
>>>>> over
>>>>> glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
>>>>> not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need
>>>>> a
>>>>> tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
>>>>> dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>>
>>
>
>
--
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MzK
"The universe is full of magical things
patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper."
-- Eden Phillpotts
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On 10/2/14, Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I swear I am technically savvy, but I have not found an easy link to the
> materials you reference.
>
> I start at the homepage - www.openoffice.org
>
> I click on "I want to participate in OpenOffice" link which takes me here:
> http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>
> I clink on the New Volunteer Orientation Modules
> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html> link which takes me
> here: http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html
>
> I click on the Introduction to Development
> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html> link
> which takes me here:
> http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html
>
> I click on the Building Guide
> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO> link
> which takes me here:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>
> That page has no instructions for how to build on Mac OS X, but it does
> have a link titled Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms
> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step>
> which
> of course looks very promising.
>
> But when you click on that link, it takes you here:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>
> And that page offers detailed instructions for Ubuntu and Windows, but has
> no links whatsoever to any materials regarding Mac OS X.
>
> When I click on the link that you provided, I see the requirements for Mac
> OS X and I see how to get started that is very helpful.
>
> But compare that to the LibreOffice materials. I google "LibreOffice on Mac
> OS X" and I get the following link:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnMac
>
> I go to that link and it has step by step instructions on what to do.
>
> I'm smart enough to be able to find what I am looking for, but I'm just
> saying that as a total newcomer to both projects LibreOffice made it much
> easier.
Perhaps the thinking was that mantaining 3 guides is more dificult
than having just 1 guide with annotation for each platform.
However it only took me a few seconds figuring out where the OSX
information was. But if you think that mantaining 3 guides is the way
to go, you can make the comment at doc@openoffice
There are also some formating that could definetly help like having
special alerts and notes for the wiki which you can find here:
{{Documentation/Caution| some text }}
{{Documentation/Notes| some text }}
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes
>> <romansausarnes@gmail.com
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved
>> > in
>> > one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>> >
>> > The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>> > newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for
>> > how
>> to
>> > get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>> > ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>> > instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>> > first time on my machine.
>> >
>> > The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
>> for
>> > the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>> > found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set
>> of
>> > instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>> > that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>> > resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>> >
>>
>> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
>> modules
>> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
>> want
>> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
>> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
>> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
>> including OSX.
>>
>> All in all is 4 clicks:
>> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>> )
>>
>> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do
>> it
>> > and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
>> > along, but you can understand how a person who is given two
>> > opportunities
>> > is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
>> > work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>> >
>> > Just my two cents.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
>> > > interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
>> > > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position
>> > > I
>> > > think.
>> > >
>> > > My observations regarding LO:
>> > > 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
>> > > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
>> > > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
>> > > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
>> > > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>> > > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing
>> > > it
>> > > with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
>> > > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
>> > > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
>> > > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on
>> > > by
>> > > every major player except MS.
>> > > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
>> > > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>> > >
>> > > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
>> > > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
>> > > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
>> > > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>> > >
>> > > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability
>> > > over
>> > > glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
>> > > not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need
>> > > a
>> > > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
>> > > dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 02/10/2014 Roman Sausarnes wrote:
> And I'm here to help, not just complain :) I'm still working out how I can
> contribute...
Well, start by improving the wiki then! I agree that the building guide
can be restructured better, especially in the steps that lead you from
the main page to the individual platforms.
I've just created an account for you on the wiki. You have been sent a
temporary password. Feel free to edit pages as you wish to make them
easier to follow for newcomers.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>.
And I'm here to help, not just complain :) I'm still working out how I can
contribute...
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Okay, I'm going to fess up and admit my mistake. I found the link on the
> "Building Guide" page (
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO) that
> takes you to the Mac OS X information.
>
> I see it now - I don't know why I didn't see it before - I was blind to
> it, except it was halfway down a very long page and not at all where I
> would expect to find it. I would expect to find it in the location titled:
> Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms. At the very top of the
> page is a link that claims to give step-by-step instructions for different
> platforms, but when you click on it, it says nothing about Mac OS X. And I
> still think that the information offered is not as clear or structured as
> the information on the LO site.
>
> I know that all of the information is there somewhere. I have found it in
> the past. It just always feels like I have to dig for it with AOO, whereas
> on LO it is easier.
>
> Hey, programming isn't for wimps. But other noobs have now raised similar
> points, so its more than just "user error".
>
> And I second the observation that the website is confusing - there are
> multiple sites with very different structures, sometimes with contradictory
> or outdated information, and no real semblance of common organization
> between them.
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Roman Sausarnes <romansausarnes@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> I swear I am technically savvy, but I have not found an easy link to the
>> materials you reference.
>>
>> I start at the homepage - www.openoffice.org
>>
>> I click on "I want to participate in OpenOffice" link which takes me
>> here: http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>>
>> I clink on the New Volunteer Orientation Modules
>> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html> link which takes
>> me here: http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html
>>
>> I click on the Introduction to Development
>> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html> link
>> which takes me here:
>> http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html
>>
>> I click on the Building Guide
>> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO> link
>> which takes me here:
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>>
>> That page has no instructions for how to build on Mac OS X, but it does
>> have a link titled Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms
>> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step> which
>> of course looks very promising.
>>
>> But when you click on that link, it takes you here:
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>>
>> And that page offers detailed instructions for Ubuntu and Windows, but
>> has no links whatsoever to any materials regarding Mac OS X.
>>
>> When I click on the link that you provided, I see the requirements for
>> Mac OS X and I see how to get started that is very helpful.
>>
>> But compare that to the LibreOffice materials. I google "LibreOffice on
>> Mac OS X" and I get the following link:
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnMac
>>
>> I go to that link and it has step by step instructions on what to do.
>>
>> I'm smart enough to be able to find what I am looking for, but I'm just
>> saying that as a total newcomer to both projects LibreOffice made it much
>> easier.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <
>>> romansausarnes@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hello,
>>> >
>>> > As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved
>>> in
>>> > one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>>> >
>>> > The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>>> > newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for
>>> how to
>>> > get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>>> > ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>>> > instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>>> > first time on my machine.
>>> >
>>> > The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching
>>> it for
>>> > the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>>> > found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a
>>> set of
>>> > instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>>> > that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>>> > resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
>>> modules
>>> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
>>> want
>>> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
>>> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
>>> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
>>> including OSX.
>>>
>>> All in all is 4 clicks:
>>> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>>>
>>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>>> )
>>>
>>> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to
>>> do it
>>> > and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
>>> > along, but you can understand how a person who is given two
>>> opportunities
>>> > is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
>>> > work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>>> >
>>> > Just my two cents.
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
>>> > > interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
>>> > > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position
>>> I
>>> > > think.
>>> > >
>>> > > My observations regarding LO:
>>> > > 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
>>> > > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
>>> > > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
>>> > > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
>>> > > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>>> > > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing
>>> it
>>> > > with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
>>> > > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
>>> > > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
>>> > > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on
>>> by
>>> > > every major player except MS.
>>> > > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
>>> > > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>>> > >
>>> > > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
>>> > > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
>>> > > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
>>> > > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>>> > >
>>> > > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability
>>> over
>>> > > glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
>>> > > not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need
>>> a
>>> > > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
>>> > > dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>>> > >
>>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>.
Okay, I'm going to fess up and admit my mistake. I found the link on the
"Building Guide" page (
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO) that
takes you to the Mac OS X information.
I see it now - I don't know why I didn't see it before - I was blind to it,
except it was halfway down a very long page and not at all where I would
expect to find it. I would expect to find it in the location titled:
Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms. At the very top of the
page is a link that claims to give step-by-step instructions for different
platforms, but when you click on it, it says nothing about Mac OS X. And I
still think that the information offered is not as clear or structured as
the information on the LO site.
I know that all of the information is there somewhere. I have found it in
the past. It just always feels like I have to dig for it with AOO, whereas
on LO it is easier.
Hey, programming isn't for wimps. But other noobs have now raised similar
points, so its more than just "user error".
And I second the observation that the website is confusing - there are
multiple sites with very different structures, sometimes with contradictory
or outdated information, and no real semblance of common organization
between them.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I swear I am technically savvy, but I have not found an easy link to the
> materials you reference.
>
> I start at the homepage - www.openoffice.org
>
> I click on "I want to participate in OpenOffice" link which takes me here:
> http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>
> I clink on the New Volunteer Orientation Modules
> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html> link which takes me
> here: http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html
>
> I click on the Introduction to Development
> <http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html> link
> which takes me here:
> http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html
>
> I click on the Building Guide
> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO> link
> which takes me here:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
>
> That page has no instructions for how to build on Mac OS X, but it does
> have a link titled Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms
> <http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step> which
> of course looks very promising.
>
> But when you click on that link, it takes you here:
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
>
> And that page offers detailed instructions for Ubuntu and Windows, but has
> no links whatsoever to any materials regarding Mac OS X.
>
> When I click on the link that you provided, I see the requirements for Mac
> OS X and I see how to get started that is very helpful.
>
> But compare that to the LibreOffice materials. I google "LibreOffice on
> Mac OS X" and I get the following link:
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnMac
>
> I go to that link and it has step by step instructions on what to do.
>
> I'm smart enough to be able to find what I am looking for, but I'm just
> saying that as a total newcomer to both projects LibreOffice made it much
> easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <
>> romansausarnes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
>> > one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>> >
>> > The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>> > newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for
>> how to
>> > get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>> > ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>> > instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>> > first time on my machine.
>> >
>> > The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
>> for
>> > the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>> > found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set
>> of
>> > instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>> > that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>> > resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>> >
>>
>> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
>> modules
>> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
>> want
>> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
>> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
>> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
>> including OSX.
>>
>> All in all is 4 clicks:
>> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>> )
>>
>> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do
>> it
>> > and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
>> > along, but you can understand how a person who is given two
>> opportunities
>> > is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
>> > work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>> >
>> > Just my two cents.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
>> > > interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
>> > > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
>> > > think.
>> > >
>> > > My observations regarding LO:
>> > > 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
>> > > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
>> > > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
>> > > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
>> > > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>> > > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
>> > > with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
>> > > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
>> > > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
>> > > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
>> > > every major player except MS.
>> > > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
>> > > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>> > >
>> > > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
>> > > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
>> > > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
>> > > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>> > >
>> > > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability over
>> > > glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
>> > > not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need a
>> > > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
>> > > dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>> > >
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>
>
>
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>.
I swear I am technically savvy, but I have not found an easy link to the
materials you reference.
I start at the homepage - www.openoffice.org
I click on "I want to participate in OpenOffice" link which takes me here:
http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
I clink on the New Volunteer Orientation Modules
<http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html> link which takes me
here: http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/index.html
I click on the Introduction to Development
<http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html> link
which takes me here:
http://openoffice.apache.org/orientation/intro-development.html
I click on the Building Guide
<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO> link
which takes me here:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO
That page has no instructions for how to build on Mac OS X, but it does
have a link titled Step-by-Step Building Guide for Different Platforms
<http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step>
which
of course looks very promising.
But when you click on that link, it takes you here:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Step_by_step
And that page offers detailed instructions for Ubuntu and Windows, but has
no links whatsoever to any materials regarding Mac OS X.
When I click on the link that you provided, I see the requirements for Mac
OS X and I see how to get started that is very helpful.
But compare that to the LibreOffice materials. I google "LibreOffice on Mac
OS X" and I get the following link:
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/BuildingOnMac
I go to that link and it has step by step instructions on what to do.
I'm smart enough to be able to find what I am looking for, but I'm just
saying that as a total newcomer to both projects LibreOffice made it much
easier.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <romansausarnes@gmail.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
> > one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
> >
> > The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
> > newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how
> to
> > get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
> > ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
> > instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
> > first time on my machine.
> >
> > The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
> for
> > the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
> > found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set
> of
> > instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
> > that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
> > resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
> >
>
> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create modules
> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they want
> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
> including OSX.
>
> All in all is 4 clicks:
> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
> )
>
> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>
>
>
> >
> > I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do
> it
> > and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
> > along, but you can understand how a person who is given two opportunities
> > is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
> > work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
> >
> > Just my two cents.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
> > > interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
> > > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
> > > think.
> > >
> > > My observations regarding LO:
> > > 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
> > > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
> > > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
> > > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
> > > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
> > > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
> > > with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
> > > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
> > > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
> > > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
> > > every major player except MS.
> > > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
> > > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
> > >
> > > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
> > > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
> > > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
> > > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
> > >
> > > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability over
> > > glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
> > > not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need a
> > > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
> > > dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>
RE: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
What gets me about development is that the most contorted possible ever development process is builds for Windows, yet a lot of interest is from people who want that case to work. And, of course, we know that the sweet spot for Apache OpenOffice adoption is on the Windows platform.
It is clear why that disparity exists, but the result is an awkward situation, especially for attracting developers and testers.
I have no idea how to streamline the build and also get to where there is an x64 release also. My brain melts when I even consider it and I have avoided going through the developer training materials. My bad.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Roman Sausarnes [mailto:romansausarnes@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 10:26
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Hello,
As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how to
get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
first time on my machine.
[ ... ]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:46 PM, Alain Sanguinetti <al...@sanguinetti.eu>
wrote:
> Le 02.10.2014 19:38, Alexandro Colorado a écrit :
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <
>> romansausarnes@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>>
>>> As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
>>> one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>>>
>>> The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>>> newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how
>>> to
>>> get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>>> ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>>> instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>>> first time on my machine.
>>>
>>> The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
>>> for
>>> the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>>> found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set
>>> of
>>> instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>>> that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>>> resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>>>
>>>
>> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
>> modules
>> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
>> want
>> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
>> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
>> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
>> including OSX.
>>
>> All in all is 4 clicks:
>> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_
>> Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>> )
>>
>> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I am a newcomer as well to the Apache OpenOffice community and I have the
> same feeling.
> One thing that struck me is the number of websites/wiki that exists.
> You have openoffice.org. ( which actually looks a little different from
> openoffice.org/fr ! )
> Then you have http://openoffice.apache.org
> And there are Confluence and MediaWiki Wikis.
> All websites looks great but I think it needs consolidation at one place.
>
> But the new volunteer orientation modules are great.
When OOo join apache we were stuck with a website and wiki that apache
used for their projects (Confluence and xxxx.apache.org). That's where the
duplication happened. Semantically on the project we delegate the apache
website/wiki to project-related information (new launch, etc). And
openoffice.org website/wiki to product-related information (release notes,
etc). Ideally the apache.org assets should be on an extranet while the
openoffice.org should be public. This being a public project we have them
both. In principle I agreed, that it would be easier if we just forward
everything to the openoffice.org sites. Confluence has proven to be a pain
in the butt while the apache.org website have content that can easily be
handled on the main openoffice.org site. I guess is just a decision the
project most make.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alain Sanguinetti <al...@sanguinetti.eu>.
Le 02.10.2014 19:38, Alexandro Colorado a écrit :
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes
> <ro...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved
>> in
>> one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>>
>> The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>> newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for
>> how to
>> get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>> ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>> instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>> first time on my machine.
>>
>> The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching
>> it for
>> the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still
>> haven't
>> found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a
>> set of
>> instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and
>> suggest
>> that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>> resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>>
>
> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
> modules
> so that people could easily find the right information of the way they
> want
> to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
> contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
> involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
> including OSX.
>
> All in all is 4 clicks:
> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
> )
>
> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>
>
>
I am a newcomer as well to the Apache OpenOffice community and I have
the same feeling.
One thing that struck me is the number of websites/wiki that exists.
You have openoffice.org. ( which actually looks a little different from
openoffice.org/fr ! )
Then you have http://openoffice.apache.org
And there are Confluence and MediaWiki Wikis.
All websites looks great but I think it needs consolidation at one
place.
But the new volunteer orientation modules are great.
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <romansausarnes@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
>> one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>>
>> The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
>> newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how
>> to
>> get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
>> ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
>> instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
>> first time on my machine.
>>
>> The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it
>> for
>> the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
>> found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set of
>> instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
>> that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
>> resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>>
>
> Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create
> modules so that people could easily find the right information of the way
> they want to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you
> want to contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better
> get involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
> including OSX.
>
> All in all is 4 clicks:
> Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
> )
>
Furthermore I went to LibreOffice tutorials and they are mostly the same
process:
Homepage -> Community/Development -> Development wiki -> OSX
What I can say is that you dont have to read an intro in Development to
find the link to OSX since Development is not an 'article' but a macro menu
where you can find ways to jumpstart things like 'Getting Started' and/or
'Easy Hacks'. However I find it confusing on the first Development menu as
Learning is not the first option but instead is getting the code.
Perhaps having a visual menu would be better than just filling out pages
with text.
>
> The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>
>
>
>>
>> I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do it
>> and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
>> along, but you can understand how a person who is given two opportunities
>> is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
>> work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
>> > interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
>> > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
>> > think.
>> >
>> > My observations regarding LO:
>> > 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
>> > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
>> > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
>> > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
>> > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
>> > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
>> > with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
>> > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
>> > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
>> > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
>> > every major player except MS.
>> > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
>> > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>> >
>> > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
>> > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
>> > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
>> > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>> >
>> > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability over
>> > glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
>> > not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need a
>> > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
>> > dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
> one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
>
> The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
> newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how to
> get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
> ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
> instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
> first time on my machine.
>
> The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it for
> the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
> found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set of
> instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
> that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
> resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
>
Can you please be more explicit on this. From our angle, we create modules
so that people could easily find the right information of the way they want
to contribute. Going to www.openoffice.org and selecting you want to
contribute will lead you to a series of tutorials on how to better get
involved. Development starts with building for different platforms,
including OSX.
All in all is 4 clicks:
Homepage -> Contributing page -> Development -> Building -> OSX (
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
)
The instructions are for 4.1 so they are pretty current.
>
> I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do it
> and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
> along, but you can understand how a person who is given two opportunities
> is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
> work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
> > interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
> > becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
> > think.
> >
> > My observations regarding LO:
> > 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
> > difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
> > unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
> > 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
> > others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
> > 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
> > with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
> > language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
> > just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
> > that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
> > every major player except MS.
> > 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
> > several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
> >
> > These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
> > Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
> > that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
> > new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
> >
> > My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability over
> > glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
> > not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need a
> > tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
> > dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Roman Sausarnes <ro...@gmail.com>.
Hello,
As a newcomer to development who is looking for a way to get involved in
one project or the other, I thought I would share my impressions.
The LibreOffice website and development materials seem friendlier to
newcomers. It is easier to navigate and find simple instructions for how to
get the code, set up a development environment, or contribute in other
ways. I use a Mac, and almost right away I found a detailed set of
instructions that was (relatively) current for how to build LO for the
first time on my machine.
The AOO website is confusing and disorganized for people approaching it for
the first time and some of the information is outdated. I still haven't
found simple instructions for how to build on a Mac. I have found a set of
instructions but they are confusing, appear to be outdated, and suggest
that I need to install older Xcode, etc., without any suggestions or
resources on how to do it, if it is really necessary, etc.
I haven't given up on AOO, and part of me wants to figure out how to do it
and then write the instructions clearly for the next person who comes
along, but you can understand how a person who is given two opportunities
is tempted to choose the one that is easier to get started on (the hard
work comes later - entry should be easy) and more clearly structured.
Just my two cents.
On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 10:06 AM, Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
> interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
> becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
> think.
>
> My observations regarding LO:
> 1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
> difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
> unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
> 2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
> others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
> 3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
> with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
> language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
> just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
> that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
> every major player except MS.
> 4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
> several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
>
> These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
> Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
> that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
> new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
>
> My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability over
> glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
> not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need a
> tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
> dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Chuck Davis <cj...@gmail.com>.
I've seen quite a number of new people show up here lately indicating
interest coming from someplace. If one out of 10 of them sticks and
becomes a regular contributor the project is in a very good position I
think.
My observations regarding LO:
1) They've copied some features from MS Office that make it equally
difficult to use....It's not as pleasant to use as AOO. It's very
unfortunate the distributions have adopted LO in lieu of AOO.
2) Their constant AOO bashing is a real turn-off for me and I hope
others as well. I don't think I want their people in our camp.
3) They seem to be very proud of getting rid of Java and replacing it
with Python. I've looked at Python a little and it seems to me any
language dependent on indentation rather than syntax is
just........dumb! There is nothing wrong with Java -- especially now
that OpenJDK is the reference implementation and is being worked on by
every major player except MS.
4) LO seems to have major QC issues. The quality is definitely
several notches below where AOO rests in my experience.
These are just my observations as a long time OpenOffice user. And
Apache has some very interesting related projects (i.e. ODF Toolkit)
that can propel ODF as a standard reporting framework as well as the
new project to read and write OOXML for document exchange.
My advice: stay the course. Emphasize quality and dependability over
glitz. If developers are not attracted to AOO on those terms they're
not developers the project needs. Those of us in business just need a
tool to get our work done and it doesn't need to be fancy -- just
dependable. LO falls on it's face at this point.
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RE: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
A side comment. It seems that it has escaped everyone's attention that the latest release(s) of LibreOffice are not under [L]GPL. The releases are under MPL 2.0 (the Mozilla license).
The LibreOffice codebase itself is now a combination of Apache licensed code (from guess where?) and MPL 2.0 modifications. It appears to me that the source code is now multi-licensed (not dual-licensed) under both Apache License 2.0 (for the base code) and MPL (for the changes made by the TDF to make their core source code).
I agree that the osmosis between the projects is still one-way and it is not easy to change because the contributors to LibO have only granted a dual MPL and LGPL license to their contributions. TDF has taken the MPL option. That is still toxic for incorporation as source code in any Apache Software Foundation Project code base.
With regard to potential remedies, I am in complete accord with Ian's appraisal. Especially for matters applicable to the interoperable usage of ODF, the lack of cooperation is very troublesome and may, if not addressed, be fatal to both projects.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Lynch [mailto:ianrlynch@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 2, 2014 05:47
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: Concerns about the AOO community
It would be better for the projects to merge, but the details (license,
community) clearly matter a lot to some people. If there was a better
spirit of cooperation most of the effort could go into AOO with just some
minor things for the GPL version derived from it in an agreed way so that
that could satisfy the needs of that particular market. But to do that we
would have to get a lot more trust and "friendliness" between the two
projects. It doesn't seem too likely at present.
[ ... ]
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
It would be better for the projects to merge, but the details (license,
community) clearly matter a lot to some people. If there was a better
spirit of cooperation most of the effort could go into AOO with just some
minor things for the GPL version derived from it in an agreed way so that
that could satisfy the needs of that particular market. But to do that we
would have to get a lot more trust and "friendliness" between the two
projects. It doesn't seem too likely at present.
On 2 October 2014 12:55, Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/10/14 01:44, Rob Weir wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
> wrote:
> >> On G+ I have hold a conversation with Bruce Byfield and Jos from KDE
> >> about the continuation of the Apache OpenOffice community and how the
> >> way that the community has enter lately into a dormant stage with very
> >> little traffic.
> >>
> >> Althought I do seem that is an exageration, I feel that is true that
> >> traffic has reach its lowest in several months. I wonder what is going
> >> on with the community as well as overal adoption and concern of a lack
> >> of marketing strategy.
> >>
> >> I would love to hear from the community managers to have an evaluation.
> >>
> >
> > Community mangers? Come on, you know that is not how we roll at Apache!
> >
> > What is amazing to be is how much LO sees a merger of the projects as
> > a threat to them.
> >
> > Here's the background. At the LO conference one of the presenters
> > spoke in favor of merging LO with AOO, of combining the efforts. This
> > was the IT Head from the Swiss Supreme Court IT office, who also said
> > that they preferred to use AOO for its superior stability compared to
> > LO.
> >
> >
> https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/open-and-libre-office-projects-should-reunite
> >
> > As you can imagine, having a speaker at a LO conference say nice
> > things about AOO and to suggest cooperation with AOO was an insult
> > that could not be permitted. So LO marketing went into over-drive to
> > try to kill that message. That's why we see articles like this, and
> > recent related blog posts by Simon and Charles.
> >
> > But it does make me wonder: What are they so afraid of? Why do they
> > think the idea of cooperation so dangerous? Why do they think that
> > users are so wrong to value stability and to think that the two
> > projects would work better together?
>
> This is indeed a good question. I believe the TDF and LO community did a
> really good job to setup the foundation, the community and the project.
> But it is also a fact that LO benefits a lot of the things we have done
> and do in AOO.
>
> It's still a valid question why both projects doesn't cooperate better
> and focus together on important improvements. From my perspective it
> simply doesn't make sense and together we could reach much more.
>
> Juergen
>
> >
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> >> --
> >> Alexandro Colorado
> >> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> >> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
Ian
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 02/10/14 01:44, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> On G+ I have hold a conversation with Bruce Byfield and Jos from KDE
>> about the continuation of the Apache OpenOffice community and how the
>> way that the community has enter lately into a dormant stage with very
>> little traffic.
>>
>> Althought I do seem that is an exageration, I feel that is true that
>> traffic has reach its lowest in several months. I wonder what is going
>> on with the community as well as overal adoption and concern of a lack
>> of marketing strategy.
>>
>> I would love to hear from the community managers to have an evaluation.
>>
>
> Community mangers? Come on, you know that is not how we roll at Apache!
>
> What is amazing to be is how much LO sees a merger of the projects as
> a threat to them.
>
> Here's the background. At the LO conference one of the presenters
> spoke in favor of merging LO with AOO, of combining the efforts. This
> was the IT Head from the Swiss Supreme Court IT office, who also said
> that they preferred to use AOO for its superior stability compared to
> LO.
>
> https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/open-and-libre-office-projects-should-reunite
>
> As you can imagine, having a speaker at a LO conference say nice
> things about AOO and to suggest cooperation with AOO was an insult
> that could not be permitted. So LO marketing went into over-drive to
> try to kill that message. That's why we see articles like this, and
> recent related blog posts by Simon and Charles.
>
> But it does make me wonder: What are they so afraid of? Why do they
> think the idea of cooperation so dangerous? Why do they think that
> users are so wrong to value stability and to think that the two
> projects would work better together?
This is indeed a good question. I believe the TDF and LO community did a
really good job to setup the foundation, the community and the project.
But it is also a fact that LO benefits a lot of the things we have done
and do in AOO.
It's still a valid question why both projects doesn't cooperate better
and focus together on important improvements. From my perspective it
simply doesn't make sense and together we could reach much more.
Juergen
>
>
> -Rob
>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@robweir.com>.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On G+ I have hold a conversation with Bruce Byfield and Jos from KDE
> about the continuation of the Apache OpenOffice community and how the
> way that the community has enter lately into a dormant stage with very
> little traffic.
>
> Althought I do seem that is an exageration, I feel that is true that
> traffic has reach its lowest in several months. I wonder what is going
> on with the community as well as overal adoption and concern of a lack
> of marketing strategy.
>
> I would love to hear from the community managers to have an evaluation.
>
Community mangers? Come on, you know that is not how we roll at Apache!
What is amazing to be is how much LO sees a merger of the projects as
a threat to them.
Here's the background. At the LO conference one of the presenters
spoke in favor of merging LO with AOO, of combining the efforts. This
was the IT Head from the Swiss Supreme Court IT office, who also said
that they preferred to use AOO for its superior stability compared to
LO.
https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/open-and-libre-office-projects-should-reunite
As you can imagine, having a speaker at a LO conference say nice
things about AOO and to suggest cooperation with AOO was an insult
that could not be permitted. So LO marketing went into over-drive to
try to kill that message. That's why we see articles like this, and
recent related blog posts by Simon and Charles.
But it does make me wonder: What are they so afraid of? Why do they
think the idea of cooperation so dangerous? Why do they think that
users are so wrong to value stability and to think that the two
projects would work better together?
-Rob
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 6:57 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 02/10/2014 Alexandro Colorado wrote:
>
>> Since Bruce is a prominent writer for Linux Magazine I think is worth
>> to educate him on these matters
>>
>
> To answer the first false fact he mentions,
> "why has it been so quiet in the last few weeks on the mailing lists? Not
> long ago, even a day without messages from the list was unheard-of."
> I can definitely confirm that this is wrong, this list receives several
> dozens messages per day as usual and it is quite impossible not to notice
> that.
>
I have been wondering this myself, I have been on the list for quite a
while (3 years) and I have notice that the dev mails have been more
sporadically. At first I thought it was my email address that was bumped
from the list. Going to markmail I do see that last month was the lowest
month of traffic at 468 emails the whole month.
http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.ooo-dev
I am sure there are reasons like, not really a release period or a QA
period and most of the traffic was mostly on improving the website.
Anyway feel free to join in the conversation on G+ mainly because of the
effect it can have on high traffic publications like Linux Magazine.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
>
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--
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
On 02/10/2014 Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> Since Bruce is a prominent writer for Linux Magazine I think is worth
> to educate him on these matters
To answer the first false fact he mentions,
"why has it been so quiet in the last few weeks on the mailing lists?
Not long ago, even a day without messages from the list was unheard-of."
I can definitely confirm that this is wrong, this list receives several
dozens messages per day as usual and it is quite impossible not to
notice that.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>.
I see well they are still piling on if anyone interested in giving
example how this community is not 'diying'.
https://plus.google.com/u/1/107133120166691255011/posts/QUksBJiVLzd?cfem=1
Since Bruce is a prominent writer for Linux Magazine I think is worth
to educate him on these matters, and maybe convert him int o an AOO
spokesperson.
On 10/1/14, Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As a moderator of the dev list, I can't say I have noticed any reduction in
> traffic. If anything its increasing.
>
> On 1 October 2014 21:34, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>
>> On G+ I have hold a conversation with Bruce Byfield and Jos from KDE
>> about the continuation of the Apache OpenOffice community and how the
>> way that the community has enter lately into a dormant stage with very
>> little traffic.
>>
>> Althought I do seem that is an exageration, I feel that is true that
>> traffic has reach its lowest in several months. I wonder what is going
>> on with the community as well as overal adoption and concern of a lack
>> of marketing strategy.
>>
>> I would love to hear from the community managers to have an evaluation.
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
>> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Ian
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Alexandro Colorado
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Re: Concerns about the AOO community
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
As a moderator of the dev list, I can't say I have noticed any reduction in
traffic. If anything its increasing.
On 1 October 2014 21:34, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On G+ I have hold a conversation with Bruce Byfield and Jos from KDE
> about the continuation of the Apache OpenOffice community and how the
> way that the community has enter lately into a dormant stage with very
> little traffic.
>
> Althought I do seem that is an exageration, I feel that is true that
> traffic has reach its lowest in several months. I wonder what is going
> on with the community as well as overal adoption and concern of a lack
> of marketing strategy.
>
> I would love to hear from the community managers to have an evaluation.
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> Apache OpenOffice Contributor
> 882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9 5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
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>
--
Ian
Ofqual Accredited Qualifications
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Headline points in the 2014, 2015, 2016 school league tables
Baseline testing and progress measures
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The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, Unit 4D Gagarin, Lichfield
Road Industrial Estate, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 7GN. Reg No:
05560797, Registered in England and Wales. +44 (0)1827 305940