[VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

Folks,

Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.

As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08808

Below is the complete proposal for this project.

So, please cast your votes:

[ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
[ ]  0 Don't care
[ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:

Regards, Upayavira

                                - o -

= Wicket Proposal =

This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
within the Apache Software Foundation.

== Rationale ==

Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
Apache projects.

The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
Foundation for several reasons:

 * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
increased visibility and acceptance.

 * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
and legal protection.

 * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
togethers etc.

 * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
Felix or Jetspeed.

 * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.

 * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.

== Criteria ==

=== Community ===

Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
everyone. It is released
under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
maximum possible adoption by all
potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
suggestions and
contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
as contributors
since the project's inception in 2004.

=== Meritocracy ===

Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan Compagner and
Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.

== Scope of Sub projects ==

Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
core project.

Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
knowledgeable enough to change.

== Features ==

Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
favorite technology.

== Initial Source ==

The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.

== Resources to be Created ==

 * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
 * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
 * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
 * Confluence Wiki.

We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those participating
in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the development
of Wicket.

== Potential Issues ==

These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
adopt an Apache approach for newer code.

=== Name ===

Obviously, the
=== Versions ===

Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).

We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.

This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
already using the product.

The intention would be to proceed as follows:
  *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
moved to Apache.
    * 1.2.x
      *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
      *  'wicket.*' package name
      *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
      *  SF-hosted releases?
    * 1.3
      *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
      *  'wicket.*' package name
      *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
      *  ASF-hosted releases
    *  2.x
      *  Primary development branch
      *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
      *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
      *  ASF-hosted releases

When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache, we are
concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of release.

=== Package Naming ===

Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.

Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.

== Other Potential Concerns ==

=== Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===

Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
unlikely to fit into this category.

The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
others, who depend
on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
the commit statistic form a sub view:
http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.

=== Experience with Open Source ===

Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.

=== Heterogenous Developers ===

The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
employer.

 * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.

 * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
Inc. from October on as a software engineer.

 * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
software engineer

 * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.

 * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
Teachscape Inc.

 * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.

 * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
Consultant

 * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
wicket technology in its core) as a technical director

 * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
for EEA as a software engineer

 * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a software
engineer

 * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer

 * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
engineer

 * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
He does not intend to move with us to Apache.

In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
countries.

All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
team has committed code, and may do so.

=== Reliance on Salaried Developers ===

None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.

=== Ties to other Apache Products ===

Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
tries to stay as lean as possible though.

=== An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===

The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.

== Committers ==

 * Jonathan Locke
 * Eelco Hillenius
 * Johan Compagner
 * Martijn Dashorst
 * Juergen Donnerstag
 * Igor Vaynberg
 * Gwyn Evans
 * Matej Knopp
 * Janne Hietamäki
 * Frank Bille Jensen
 * Ate Douma
 * Jan Blok

== Proposed Apache Sponsor ==

Incubator PMC

== Champions ==

 * Upayavira
 * Alex Karasulu
 * Sylvain Wallez

== Mentors ==

 * Upayavira
 * Alex Karasulu
 * Sylvain Wallez
 * Bertrand Delacretaz

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Martijn Dashorst <ma...@gmail.com>]

+1 (non binding)

-- 
Download Wicket 1.2.1 now! Embed Wicket components in your portals!
-- http://wicketframework.org

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Gwyn Evans <gw...@gmail.com>]

> [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling

/Gwyn

P.S. We'll be happy to discuss "Why Wicket" or the Wicket homepage &
marketing-speak, but I don't think this thread's the place to do it!

-- 
Download Wicket 1.2.1 now! - http://wicketframework.org

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

Upayavira wrote:
> [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling

+1, non-binding

Ross

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Oops (was Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

Searching for '[VOTE]' on the wicket archives isn't enough to find the
relevant vote :-(

Here's the correct link:

http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08853

Upayavira

Upayavira wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
> 
> As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
> approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08808
> 
> Below is the complete proposal for this project.
> 
> So, please cast your votes:
> 
> [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
> 
> Regards, Upayavira
> 
>                                 - o -
> 
> = Wicket Proposal =
> 
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
> 
> == Rationale ==
> 
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
> 
> The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> Foundation for several reasons:
> 
>  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> increased visibility and acceptance.
> 
>  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> and legal protection.
> 
>  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> togethers etc.
> 
>  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> Felix or Jetspeed.
> 
>  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> 
>  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> 
> == Criteria ==
> 
> === Community ===
> 
> Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> everyone. It is released
> under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> maximum possible adoption by all
> potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> suggestions and
> contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> as contributors
> since the project's inception in 2004.
> 
> === Meritocracy ===
> 
> Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan Compagner and
> Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> 
> == Scope of Sub projects ==
> 
> Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> core project.
> 
> Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> knowledgeable enough to change.
> 
> == Features ==
> 
> Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> favorite technology.
> 
> == Initial Source ==
> 
> The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> 
> == Resources to be Created ==
> 
>  * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
>  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
>  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
>  * Confluence Wiki.
> 
> We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
> SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
> of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those participating
> in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the development
> of Wicket.
> 
> == Potential Issues ==
> 
> These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> 
> === Name ===
> 
> Obviously, the
> === Versions ===
> 
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> 
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> 
> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
> 
> The intention would be to proceed as follows:
>   *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
> moved to Apache.
>     * 1.2.x
>       *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  SF-hosted releases?
>     * 1.3
>       *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>     *  2.x
>       *  Primary development branch
>       *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
> 
> When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
> the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
> placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache, we are
> concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
> some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of release.
> 
> === Package Naming ===
> 
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> 
> Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> 
> == Other Potential Concerns ==
> 
> === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> 
> Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> unlikely to fit into this category.
> 
> The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> others, who depend
> on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> the commit statistic form a sub view:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> 
> === Experience with Open Source ===
> 
> Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> 
> === Heterogenous Developers ===
> 
> The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
> employer.
> 
>  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> 
>  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> 
>  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> software engineer
> 
>  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> 
>  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> Teachscape Inc.
> 
>  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> 
>  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> Consultant
> 
>  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> 
>  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
> for EEA as a software engineer
> 
>  * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a software
> engineer
> 
>  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> 
>  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> engineer
> 
>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> 
> In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> countries.
> 
> All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> team has committed code, and may do so.
> 
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> 
> None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
> choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> 
> === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> 
> Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> 
> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> 
> The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> 
> == Committers ==
> 
>  * Jonathan Locke
>  * Eelco Hillenius
>  * Johan Compagner
>  * Martijn Dashorst
>  * Juergen Donnerstag
>  * Igor Vaynberg
>  * Gwyn Evans
>  * Matej Knopp
>  * Janne Hietamäki
>  * Frank Bille Jensen
>  * Ate Douma
>  * Jan Blok
> 
> == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> 
> Incubator PMC
> 
> == Champions ==
> 
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
> 
> == Mentors ==
> 
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>  * Bertrand Delacretaz
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> 
> 


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Re: Joining Incubator PMC (was Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:

> Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:

> > ...Not sure if binding or not, I've signed up as a mentor for Wicket but
> > didn't participate in incubator activities before.
>
> Currently non-binding. But, as an ASF member, you should ask the
> Incubator PMC to join. Once you've joined, your votes will become
> binding. (at least that is my understanding)

Ok, here it goes then: I'd like to join the incubator PMC if you guys want me.

I tend to have an overstuffed schedule, so can't promise much
involvement besides helping with Wicket incubation as a mentor. But
I'm happy to help when I manage to find some time.

-Bertrand

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Joining Incubator PMC (was Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>> ...=== Name ===
>>
>> Obviously, the
>> ...
> 
> Looks like something's missing on that line, it ends after "Obviously,
> the".

Not having a good day. That was where I started saying that I'd done a
US trademark search that showed nothing, but decided not to mention it.

> Apart from that: +1.
> 
> Not sure if binding or not, I've signed up as a mentor for Wicket but
> didn't participate in incubator activities before.

Currently non-binding. But, as an ASF member, you should ask the
Incubator PMC to join. Once you've joined, your votes will become
binding. (at least that is my understanding)

Regards, Upayavira


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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:

> ...=== Name ===
>
> Obviously, the
> ...

Looks like something's missing on that line, it ends after "Obviously, the".

Apart from that: +1.

Not sure if binding or not, I've signed up as a mentor for Wicket but
didn't participate in incubator activities before.

-Bertrand

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

Oops. I guess I should vote :-)

[X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling

Upayavira

Upayavira wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
> 
> As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
> approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08808
> 
> Below is the complete proposal for this project.
> 
> So, please cast your votes:
> 
> [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
> 
> Regards, Upayavira
> 
>                                 - o -
> 
> = Wicket Proposal =
> 
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
> 
> == Rationale ==
> 
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
> 
> The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> Foundation for several reasons:
> 
>  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> increased visibility and acceptance.
> 
>  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> and legal protection.
> 
>  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> togethers etc.
> 
>  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> Felix or Jetspeed.
> 
>  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> 
>  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> 
> == Criteria ==
> 
> === Community ===
> 
> Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> everyone. It is released
> under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> maximum possible adoption by all
> potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> suggestions and
> contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> as contributors
> since the project's inception in 2004.
> 
> === Meritocracy ===
> 
> Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan Compagner and
> Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> 
> == Scope of Sub projects ==
> 
> Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> core project.
> 
> Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> knowledgeable enough to change.
> 
> == Features ==
> 
> Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> favorite technology.
> 
> == Initial Source ==
> 
> The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> 
> == Resources to be Created ==
> 
>  * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
>  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
>  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
>  * Confluence Wiki.
> 
> We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
> SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
> of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those participating
> in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the development
> of Wicket.
> 
> == Potential Issues ==
> 
> These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> 
> === Name ===
> 
> Obviously, the
> === Versions ===
> 
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> 
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> 
> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
> 
> The intention would be to proceed as follows:
>   *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
> moved to Apache.
>     * 1.2.x
>       *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  SF-hosted releases?
>     * 1.3
>       *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>     *  2.x
>       *  Primary development branch
>       *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
> 
> When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
> the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
> placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache, we are
> concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
> some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of release.
> 
> === Package Naming ===
> 
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> 
> Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> 
> == Other Potential Concerns ==
> 
> === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> 
> Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> unlikely to fit into this category.
> 
> The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> others, who depend
> on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> the commit statistic form a sub view:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> 
> === Experience with Open Source ===
> 
> Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> 
> === Heterogenous Developers ===
> 
> The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
> employer.
> 
>  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> 
>  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> 
>  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> software engineer
> 
>  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> 
>  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> Teachscape Inc.
> 
>  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> 
>  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> Consultant
> 
>  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> 
>  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
> for EEA as a software engineer
> 
>  * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a software
> engineer
> 
>  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> 
>  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> engineer
> 
>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> 
> In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> countries.
> 
> All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> team has committed code, and may do so.
> 
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> 
> None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
> choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> 
> === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> 
> Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> 
> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> 
> The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> 
> == Committers ==
> 
>  * Jonathan Locke
>  * Eelco Hillenius
>  * Johan Compagner
>  * Martijn Dashorst
>  * Juergen Donnerstag
>  * Igor Vaynberg
>  * Gwyn Evans
>  * Matej Knopp
>  * Janne Hietamäki
>  * Frank Bille Jensen
>  * Ate Douma
>  * Jan Blok
> 
> == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> 
> Incubator PMC
> 
> == Champions ==
> 
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
> 
> == Mentors ==
> 
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>  * Bertrand Delacretaz
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>]

On Thu, Aug 24, 2006 at 12:02:53AM -0700, Upayavira wrote:
> Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
<snip/>

> = Wicket Proposal =
> 
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
> 
> == Rationale ==
> 
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
<snip/>

+1

LSD

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Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>]

Yoav Shapira wrote:
> Congratulations and good luck to the wicket team ;)

+1 (binding)

:)

Alex

> 
> Yoav
> 
> On 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> +1 :)
>>
>> -Igor
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Welcome Wicket!
>> >
>> > Thanks a lot everyone! Looking forward to start incubation.
>> >
>> > Eelco
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>]

Congratulations and good luck to the wicket team ;)

Yoav

On 8/28/06, Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 :)
>
> -Igor
>
>
> On 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Welcome Wicket!
> >
> > Thanks a lot everyone! Looking forward to start incubation.
> >
> > Eelco
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>

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Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Igor Vaynberg <ig...@gmail.com>]

+1 :)

-Igor


On 8/28/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Welcome Wicket!
>
> Thanks a lot everyone! Looking forward to start incubation.
>
> Eelco
>
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>

Re: [RESULT] [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>]

> Welcome Wicket!

Thanks a lot everyone! Looking forward to start incubation.

Eelco

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[RESULT] [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>]

The vote has now, IMO, had enough time to run.

To summarise, we had 8 binding +1s, from Leo Simons, Alex Karasulu,
Jason van Zyl, Justin Erenkrantz, Don Brown, Yoav Shapira, Robert
Burrell Donkin, Upayavira, and one binding -0 from Greg Stein.

We also had eight non-binding +1s.

This means that this proposal has passed, and Wicket is now free to join
the Apache Incubator.

Welcome Wicket!

Some ICLAs have already started rolling in. I shall now get on with
requesting the necessary infrastructure.

Regards, Upayavira


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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Martin Marinschek <ma...@gmail.com>]

+1 (non-binding)

regards,

Martin

On 8/24/06, Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 24 August 2006 15:02, Upayavira wrote:
>
> > So, please cast your votes:
> > [x] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
>
> (non-binding)
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
>
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>]

On Thursday 24 August 2006 15:02, Upayavira wrote:

> So, please cast your votes:
> [x] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling

(non-binding)

Cheers
Niclas

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>]

On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:

- robert

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Timothy Bennett <ti...@gmail.com>]

On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
>
>
+1 (non-binding)
-- 
timothy

Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>]

On Thursday 24 August 2006 18:16, Greg Stein wrote:
> I would be interested in a comparison of Wicket to things like Struts,
> Jetspeed, Cocoon, or whatever other Apache project might be reasonable
> compared-against. I've got no problem with Wicket beating the pants
> off every other Apache project, but what is it that makes it uber
> cool? What *precisely*?

I think each Wicket supporter has their own pet features. Mine are;

 * No XML!
 * Pure HTML for styling/templating.
 * True re-usable, stackable components.
 * Elegant design
   - Proper use of classloaders.
   - Hooks for anything one can think of.
   - Properly defined lifecycles.
   - Designed for extendability, yet very restrictive in subclassing.
   - Programing model is similar to GUI/Swing/SWT.
 * Fabulous community, at par with (or better than) the best here in ASF.
   No single, benevolent dictator as many others.

Cheers
Niclas

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Re: what wicket is (was: Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

[Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2006 at 04:46:13AM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
> >Whether this is the right way to do things is
> >debatable, but I would say now is not the right time for the incubator to 
> >start
> >having those kinds of debates.
> 
> I'm not trying to start a debate, nor engaging in any debate. I
> offered my opinion.

C'mon greg, opinions that are not shared often start a debate! Offering
an opinion without wanting follow-up is kinda hard around here...

> The model sounds cool, but I don't happen to like
> it. I am fine explaining offlist cuz it really is irrelevant here, as
> you note.
> 
> >Various ASF members like working this way, are
> >working this way, and are backing this proposal. Trust darwinism.
> 
> More power to 'em. I get a vote just like any other Incubator PMC
> member. Please don't attempt to deny me that.

Wouldn't dare. You said something which read to me like "+0 pending FOO"
and my "trust darwinism" was ment more as a "don't worry about the 'pending'
stuff or reading my whole e-mail in detail, we'll be fine anyhow". I'm such
an arse with words.

> Just because I didn't +1
> the proposal doesn't mean you should try to coerce me into changing my
> vote.

Not trying to. But like anyone on this planet, the co-operative process
we use says that I'm completely free to try to if I wanted. If I was a
wicket developer and totally convinced of how it absolutely is the best
thing since sliced bread I would probably try to do that. Which is very
much a healthy response. Evangelism, baby!

> Darwin also says that proposals could be voted down :-)  (but
> I'm not even doing that... it's just a -0 for cryin' out loud)

Sssh! Speak softly, or you might provoke more discussion! :-P

> To be honest, I am rather amazed at the amount of text written because
> one single person votes -0 rather than +1. Seriously... wow. God
> forbid somebody votes -1. What happens then? Ten times as many words
> written to convince them of the error of their ways? What are we
> saying to people: don't vote anything but +1 or your inbox will get
> slammed? Follow the groupmind, or you shall be mailbombed? Personally,
> I'd prefer an environment MUCH more accepting of alternate votes --
> that means you'll actually *get* those votes, rather than people being
> quiet, too afraid to counter the majority.

You didn't just -1 or -0, you did so conditionally on not having some kind
of understanding of differences or something. I didn't care much for the
actual vote (its going to get in anyway), but the conditional was interesting
to me. I figured the same conditional might be true for other people as well
(wicket simply is a bit weird, and I'd just spent time figuring out *how* it
is weird) so it was quite worthy to spend an e-mail on it irrespective of any 
vote going on.

I personally couldn't be more accepting of -1s, especially when it concerns
things I don't have a stake in, haven't worked on, and haven't proposed, and if
this really is an environment that isn't similary accepting we should change
that, but I hardly see a mailbomb around here. Of course, we might have one
now because of self-fulfilling prophecy and all that ;)

*ducks*

LSD

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RE: what wicket is (was: Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

["Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>]

> The model sounds cool, but I don't happen to like it.

Fair enough.  :-)

There are several projects in the Incubator for which I could personally say
the same thing.  But other ASF Members like them, and that's all good.  :-)

With respect to Wicket, well I happen to like JavaServer Pages, so you can
imagine my thoughts on the topic.  ;-)  But then see above.  :-)

	--- Noel



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Re: what wicket is (was: Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On 8/25/06, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
>...
> Wicket *is* different.

Excellent. Thanks a bunch for the thorough reply and comparison
points. Very helpful.

> Whether this is the right way to do things is
> debatable, but I would say now is not the right time for the incubator to start
> having those kinds of debates.

I'm not trying to start a debate, nor engaging in any debate. I
offered my opinion. The model sounds cool, but I don't happen to like
it. I am fine explaining offlist cuz it really is irrelevant here, as
you note.

> Various ASF members like working this way, are
> working this way, and are backing this proposal. Trust darwinism.

More power to 'em. I get a vote just like any other Incubator PMC
member. Please don't attempt to deny me that. Just because I didn't +1
the proposal doesn't mean you should try to coerce me into changing my
vote. Darwin also says that proposals could be voted down :-)  (but
I'm not even doing that... it's just a -0 for cryin' out loud)

To be honest, I am rather amazed at the amount of text written because
one single person votes -0 rather than +1. Seriously... wow. God
forbid somebody votes -1. What happens then? Ten times as many words
written to convince them of the error of their ways? What are we
saying to people: don't vote anything but +1 or your inbox will get
slammed? Follow the groupmind, or you shall be mailbombed? Personally,
I'd prefer an environment MUCH more accepting of alternate votes --
that means you'll actually *get* those votes, rather than people being
quiet, too afraid to counter the majority.

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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what wicket is (was: Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator)

[Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>]

Greg,

Basically wicket creates a session for every user and then attaches a java
object graph to that session, with parts shared between sessions. Then there
are some mechanisms for attaching "id"-ed objects in that graph to "id"-ed
elements in an HTML template, and rendering directions for the "merge" between
the template and the object graph. Basically you have java developers pretending
the web is like swing (eg stateful UI), web designers designing the "fluff"
around the "active UI" bits, and then various kinds of magic in the middle to
make that work.

Why, one might even say its a little bit like the google web toolkit, except
its also a little bit more "full stack" like ruby on rails, and fully open
source. The template language made me think of kid (you know the python one),
only its a lot simpler and doesn't allow embedding of source code.

Or like .net web development without ASP and visual basic.

Of course, once you have a java object graph with all your data in it, using
some kind of object persistence thing (probably using OR mapping) is the next
step towards not having to think about the web and just doing java development.

Wicket goes quite far that way; you don't even need to know how to write XML
files or even valid XHTML in order to use it. And making things "AJAX" is all
but transparent (since the request/response is hidden, making it into another
kind of request/response is not so difficult).

Its uber cool if you want to make java developers build web applications
quickly. Its not so cool if you want to use XSLT or similar stuff (use cocoon),
process 100s of megabytes of XML documents (use cocoon), or want some kind of
java-ish programming model which still keeps request/response somewhere in there
(use struts or a similar action-based framework), or want efficient memory use
scaling up to 1000s of concurrent users (in which case, don't put any state in
java objects and don't use any framework like any of these, in fact, anything
servlet-based kinda sucks automatically).

The project at the ASF that comes closest is tapestry, but I haven't ever fully
understood what tapestry actually is (I know it builds on hivemind which is
somewhat like excalibur/avalon/osgi automatically making it different from wicket
since wicket is not "IOC"), so I can't comment further.

Wicket *is* different. Whether this is the right way to do things is
debatable, but I would say now is not the right time for the incubator to start
having those kinds of debates. Various ASF members like working this way, are
working this way, and are backing this proposal. Trust darwinism.

LSD

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>]

I've never used Wicket, but I've done a fair number of webapps using  
similar component frameworks, such as WebObjects and Tapestry. All I  
can say - it is hard to argue about component frameworks with people  
who never used them. The benefit is essentially a different more  
developer-friendly abstraction. Of course it ties to the request/ 
response protocol.

Wicket site does seem to be heavy on marketing talk. While I find it  
very annoying (although this probably serves them in converting the  
masses), this doesn't mean it is a bad framework :-)

Andrus


On Aug 24, 2006, at 3:23 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
> On 8/24/06, Ersin Er <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> Wicket vs. Struts: http://www.wicket-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php/ 
>> Struts
>
> Bleh. That page confuses a lot of things. It conflates disparate
> components (e.g. Struts and JSP) in order to form opinions. It appears
> that Wicket also does state management "as a benefit" which I've
> rarely found to be true (any state in your http server kills
> scalability). And it somehow argues that Struts cannot handle multiple
> components on a page because they all go to one response handler for
> actions? Euh... seems each component would specify its own handler.
>
> On a pro, it seems to talk smack about JSP. Good. On a con, it uses a
> lot of buzzwords to try to demonstrate superiority. I don't know how
> "Wicket is fully object-oriented. You work with hierarchies of
> components and design your application as such. There is no need to
> bend your oo design to fit with the request-response nature of the
> HTTP protocol." will really help. The web *is* request/response.
>
> Whatever. ETIMEOUT.
>
> -0 (binding)
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> -- 
> Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
>


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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>]

> I didn't object... I voted -0 based on the information I was pointed
> out, which (as you said) is not a very good comparison point.
>
> *shrug*

Sorry if I came across too strongly. Igor pointed out my reply had a
bit of a zealous tone to it. My only goal was to explain the idea
behind Wicket a bit. :)

Eelco

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>]

On 8/24/06, Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>...
> I'm developing a desktop application. You can object to the importance
> we give to providing a clean OO model, and argue that our tradeoffs
> are ill chosen, but I believe Wicket fills a gap in the web framework
> sphere.

I didn't object... I voted -0 based on the information I was pointed
out, which (as you said) is not a very good comparison point.

*shrug*

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>]

On 8/24/06, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/06, Ersin Er <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >...
> > Wicket vs. Struts: http://www.wicket-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Struts
>
> Bleh. That page confuses a lot of things. It conflates disparate
> components (e.g. Struts and JSP) in order to form opinions.

As the note on top of the article states, it was not written by any
team member of Wicket.

If you are interested in my take amongst some other frameworks on
this, you can find it here:
http://www.virtuas.com/articles/webframework-sweetspots.html

> It appears
> that Wicket also does state management "as a benefit" which I've
> rarely found to be true (any state in your http server kills
> scalability).

Most competing frameworks are 'optimized' for that scalability as
their number 1 concern. That works *if* scalability is your number 1
concern, like the Googles, Amazons and other large public facing web
sites. However, if you are developing systems for just a couple of
(tens of) thousand users, where the load is predictable etc, you might
as well focus on other issues than merely scalability. Wicket focusses
 first on the development model and only in the second case, as an
optimization, gives you the tools to tune your application for
scalability.

Two years ago I was looking for a framework that would scale better
for development. A framework that would let us utilize reuse like we
were used to with e.g. Swing. A framework that would save our projects
from all the hacks, ad-hock session usage etc that inevitably popped
up when the UI get more complex. A framework that would help our
junior programmers learn object orientation instead of learning just
about every bad programming habit one can image. A framework that
would allow us to hire HTML/CSS guys with their own tools for the
layout etc and leave the programming to programmers. A framework that
would have more means of breaking functionality up in smaller pieces
so that for a change we would end up with something maintainable after
spending a couple of man years building. Those were real, urgent
problems that needed to be addressed and that the (model 2) frameworks
we were using at that time didn't address (in fact they made things
worse). With Wicket I found a framework with a solution to these
problems.

> On a pro, it seems to talk smack about JSP. Good. On a con, it uses a
> lot of buzzwords to try to demonstrate superiority. I don't know how
> "Wicket is fully object-oriented. You work with hierarchies of
> components and design your application as such. There is no need to
> bend your oo design to fit with the request-response nature of the
> HTTP protocol." will really help. The web *is* request/response.

This is akin to the objections people up to today make to ORM
frameworks like Hibernate. They say you shouldn't try to bend OO
design to fit the relational nature of databases. In this case too,
it's a matter of optimization; staying close to the metal gives you
the best options to optimize, but using an ORM framework or component
framework provides you with a superior programming model.

I'm sad people feel we are trying to sell Wicket with a bunch of buzz
words. We hoped we were doing better than that, and in fact feel that
by swimming against the current in many areas, going for the cheap
sell is the last thing we did. Anyway, the 'OO programming model' part
is really important to us. The framework  was started by Jonathan
(previously worked for Microsoft as a Java evangelist, worked amongst
other things Visual J++, switched to SUN to work on AWT and Swing)
who, when starting out for his first web application with Java, was
appalled by the fact that there was no framework, out of all the 50 or
so he found, that allowed him to just simply program like he could do
with Swing. JSF, Echo and Tapestry came close to his goals as at least
they know component reuse and state management, but he still missed
the 'simply Java' part. So he decided to scratch his own itch and
created Wicket.

With object oriented programming we mean something simple really, like:

public class MyComponent extends SomeOtherComponent { ...

or

public class ClickPanel extends Panel {

  private int count = 0;

  public ClickPanel(MarkupContainer parent, String id) {
		
    Link l = new Link(this, "link") {
      public void onClick() {
        count++;
      }
    };
    new Label(l, "label", new PropertyModel(this, "count"));
  }

That's all you have to do to create a new component, and if it is
available in your class path, it's available for use with no other
requirements. Personally, I favor this way of programming over having
to be aware of the underlying protocol all the time, just as I would
favor not to bother with the event loop of the operating system when
I'm developing a desktop application. You can object to the importance
we give to providing a clean OO model, and argue that our tradeoffs
are ill chosen, but I believe Wicket fills a gap in the web framework
sphere.

Eelco

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

On 8/24/06, Ersin Er <er...@gmail.com> wrote:
>...
> Wicket vs. Struts: http://www.wicket-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Struts

Bleh. That page confuses a lot of things. It conflates disparate
components (e.g. Struts and JSP) in order to form opinions. It appears
that Wicket also does state management "as a benefit" which I've
rarely found to be true (any state in your http server kills
scalability). And it somehow argues that Struts cannot handle multiple
components on a page because they all go to one response handler for
actions? Euh... seems each component would specify its own handler.

On a pro, it seems to talk smack about JSP. Good. On a con, it uses a
lot of buzzwords to try to demonstrate superiority. I don't know how
"Wicket is fully object-oriented. You work with hierarchies of
components and design your application as such. There is no need to
bend your oo design to fit with the request-response nature of the
HTTP protocol." will really help. The web *is* request/response.

Whatever. ETIMEOUT.

-0 (binding)

Cheers,
-g

-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Ersin Er <er...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

I am sure Wicket folks can give more detailed explanations but I want
to say that Wicket has the most elegant approach to web development I
have ever seen. Wicket (and may be other very similar ones) is the
only framework which seperates code and ui _truely_. Other projects of
course have their own advantages, say integration possiblities for
example, but Wicket is my choice.

And here is:

Wicket vs. Struts: http://www.wicket-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php/Struts
and
Wicket vs. Tapestry:
http://www.wicket-wiki.org.uk/wiki/index.php/For_Tapestry_Users

And I like more code oriented approach of Wicket where UI is only UI.
This goes much better with the development cycle for me.

( and of course +1 (non-binding) )

Cheers,

-- 
Ersin

On 8/24/06, Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Java web frameworks tend to be a dime a dozen, and they all talk about
> their "simplicity". Every one of them. Then I sat thru a Struts
> presentation. Gah.
>
> I would be interested in a comparison of Wicket to things like Struts,
> Jetspeed, Cocoon, or whatever other Apache project might be reasonable
> compared-against. I've got no problem with Wicket beating the pants
> off every other Apache project, but what is it that makes it uber
> cool? What *precisely*?
>
> Pending that, consider me +0 (binding)
>
> Cheers,
> -g
>
> On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> > Folks,
> >
> > Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> > vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
> >
> > As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
> > approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:
> >
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08808
> >
> > Below is the complete proposal for this project.
> >
> > So, please cast your votes:
> >
> > [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> > [ ]  0 Don't care
> > [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
> >
> > Regards, Upayavira
> >
> >                                 - o -
> >
> > = Wicket Proposal =
> >
> > This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> > within the Apache Software Foundation.
> >
> > == Rationale ==
> >
> > Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> > plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> > it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> > it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> > match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> > a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> > vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> > continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> > hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> > Apache projects.
> >
> > The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> > Foundation for several reasons:
> >
> >  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> > increased visibility and acceptance.
> >
> >  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> > and legal protection.
> >
> >  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> > many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> > togethers etc.
> >
> >  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> > Felix or Jetspeed.
> >
> >  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> > hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> >
> >  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> > innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> >
> > == Criteria ==
> >
> > === Community ===
> >
> > Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> > everyone. It is released
> > under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> > maximum possible adoption by all
> > potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> > suggestions and
> > contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> > as contributors
> > since the project's inception in 2004.
> >
> > === Meritocracy ===
> >
> > Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> > was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan Compagner and
> > Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> > join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> > project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> > Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> > project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> > having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> > and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> > members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> > contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> >
> > == Scope of Sub projects ==
> >
> > Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> > distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> > are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> > a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> > One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> > purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> > while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> > classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> > components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> > core project.
> >
> > Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> > tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> > individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> > ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> > knowledgeable enough to change.
> >
> > == Features ==
> >
> > Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> > separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> > Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> > standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> > handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> > backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> > favorite technology.
> >
> > == Initial Source ==
> >
> > The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> > Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> >
> > == Resources to be Created ==
> >
> >  * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
> >  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
> >  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
> >  * Confluence Wiki.
> >
> > We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
> > SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
> > of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those participating
> > in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the development
> > of Wicket.
> >
> > == Potential Issues ==
> >
> > These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> > maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> > adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> >
> > === Name ===
> >
> > Obviously, the
> > === Versions ===
> >
> > Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> > release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> >
> > We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> > would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> >
> > This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> > during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> > already using the product.
> >
> > The intention would be to proceed as follows:
> >   *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
> > moved to Apache.
> >     * 1.2.x
> >       *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
> >       *  'wicket.*' package name
> >       *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
> >       *  SF-hosted releases?
> >     * 1.3
> >       *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
> >       *  'wicket.*' package name
> >       *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
> >       *  ASF-hosted releases
> >     *  2.x
> >       *  Primary development branch
> >       *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
> >       *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
> >       *  ASF-hosted releases
> >
> > When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
> > the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
> > placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache, we are
> > concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
> > some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of release.
> >
> > === Package Naming ===
> >
> > Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> > would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> > servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> > switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> >
> > Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> >
> > == Other Potential Concerns ==
> >
> > === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> >
> > Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> > Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> > unlikely to fit into this category.
> >
> > The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> > others, who depend
> > on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> > a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> > the commit statistic form a sub view:
> > http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> >
> > === Experience with Open Source ===
> >
> > Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> > open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> > jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> > developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> >
> > === Heterogenous Developers ===
> >
> > The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> > employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
> > employer.
> >
> >  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> > a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> >
> >  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> > moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> > through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> > Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> >
> >  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> > software engineer
> >
> >  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> > consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> > working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> >
> >  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> > Teachscape Inc.
> >
> >  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> >
> >  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> > Consultant
> >
> >  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> > wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> >
> >  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
> > for EEA as a software engineer
> >
> >  * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a software
> > engineer
> >
> >  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> >
> >  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> > engineer
> >
> >  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> > He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> >
> > In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> > the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> > countries.
> >
> > All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> > have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> > releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> > things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> > team has committed code, and may do so.
> >
> > === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> >
> > None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> > Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> > their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> > some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> > their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
> > choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> >
> > === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> >
> > Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> > Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> > tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> >
> > === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> >
> > The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> > However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> > own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> > interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> > visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> > enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> > anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> >
> > == Committers ==
> >
> >  * Jonathan Locke
> >  * Eelco Hillenius
> >  * Johan Compagner
> >  * Martijn Dashorst
> >  * Juergen Donnerstag
> >  * Igor Vaynberg
> >  * Gwyn Evans
> >  * Matej Knopp
> >  * Janne Hietamäki
> >  * Frank Bille Jensen
> >  * Ate Douma
> >  * Jan Blok
> >
> > == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> >
> > Incubator PMC
> >
> > == Champions ==
> >
> >  * Upayavira
> >  * Alex Karasulu
> >  * Sylvain Wallez
> >
> > == Mentors ==
> >
> >  * Upayavira
> >  * Alex Karasulu
> >  * Sylvain Wallez
> >  * Bertrand Delacretaz
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Ersin

Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

Java web frameworks tend to be a dime a dozen, and they all talk about
their "simplicity". Every one of them. Then I sat thru a Struts
presentation. Gah.

I would be interested in a comparison of Wicket to things like Struts,
Jetspeed, Cocoon, or whatever other Apache project might be reasonable
compared-against. I've got no problem with Wicket beating the pants
off every other Apache project, but what is it that makes it uber
cool? What *precisely*?

Pending that, consider me +0 (binding)

Cheers,
-g

On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
>
> As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
> approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08808
>
> Below is the complete proposal for this project.
>
> So, please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
>
> Regards, Upayavira
>
>                                 - o -
>
> = Wicket Proposal =
>
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
>
> The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> Foundation for several reasons:
>
>  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> increased visibility and acceptance.
>
>  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> and legal protection.
>
>  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> togethers etc.
>
>  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> Felix or Jetspeed.
>
>  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
>
>  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
>
> == Criteria ==
>
> === Community ===
>
> Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> everyone. It is released
> under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> maximum possible adoption by all
> potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> suggestions and
> contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> as contributors
> since the project's inception in 2004.
>
> === Meritocracy ===
>
> Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan Compagner and
> Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
>
> == Scope of Sub projects ==
>
> Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> core project.
>
> Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> knowledgeable enough to change.
>
> == Features ==
>
> Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> favorite technology.
>
> == Initial Source ==
>
> The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
>
> == Resources to be Created ==
>
>  * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
>  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
>  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
>  * Confluence Wiki.
>
> We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
> SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
> of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those participating
> in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the development
> of Wicket.
>
> == Potential Issues ==
>
> These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
>
> === Name ===
>
> Obviously, the
> === Versions ===
>
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
>
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
>
> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
>
> The intention would be to proceed as follows:
>   *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
> moved to Apache.
>     * 1.2.x
>       *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  SF-hosted releases?
>     * 1.3
>       *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>     *  2.x
>       *  Primary development branch
>       *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>
> When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
> the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
> placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache, we are
> concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
> some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of release.
>
> === Package Naming ===
>
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
>
> Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
>
> == Other Potential Concerns ==
>
> === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
>
> Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> unlikely to fit into this category.
>
> The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> others, who depend
> on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> the commit statistic form a sub view:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
>
> === Experience with Open Source ===
>
> Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
>
> === Heterogenous Developers ===
>
> The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
> employer.
>
>  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
>
>  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
>
>  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> software engineer
>
>  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
>
>  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> Teachscape Inc.
>
>  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
>
>  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> Consultant
>
>  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
>
>  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
> for EEA as a software engineer
>
>  * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a software
> engineer
>
>  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
>
>  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> engineer
>
>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> countries.
>
> All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> team has committed code, and may do so.
>
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
>
> None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
> choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.
>
> === Ties to other Apache Products ===
>
> Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> tries to stay as lean as possible though.
>
> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
>
> The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
>
> == Committers ==
>
>  * Jonathan Locke
>  * Eelco Hillenius
>  * Johan Compagner
>  * Martijn Dashorst
>  * Juergen Donnerstag
>  * Igor Vaynberg
>  * Gwyn Evans
>  * Matej Knopp
>  * Janne Hietamäki
>  * Frank Bille Jensen
>  * Ate Douma
>  * Jan Blok
>
> == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
>
> Incubator PMC
>
> == Champions ==
>
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>
> == Mentors ==
>
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>  * Bertrand Delacretaz
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>]

+1 (non-binding)

On 8/24/06, Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> +1.
>
> Yoav
>
> On 8/24/06, Don Brown <do...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > +1
> >
> > On 8/24/06, Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> > > On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > So, please cast your votes:
> > > >
> > > > [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> > > > [ ]  0 Don't care
> > > > [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Matthias Wessendorf

further stuff:
blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf
mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>]

Hi,
+1.

Yoav

On 8/24/06, Don Brown <do...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> On 8/24/06, Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> > On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> > > So, please cast your votes:
> > >
> > > [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> > > [ ]  0 Don't care
> > > [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Don Brown <do...@gmail.com>]

+1

On 8/24/06, Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com> wrote:
> On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> > So, please cast your votes:
> >
> > [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> > [ ]  0 Don't care
> > [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>]

On 8/24/06, Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk> wrote:
> So, please cast your votes:
>
> [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>]

+1

Mvgr,
Martin

Upayavira wrote:
> Folks,
> 
> Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
> 
> As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
> approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/index.html#08808
> 
> Below is the complete proposal for this project.
> 
> So, please cast your votes:
> 
> [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
> 
> Regards, Upayavira
> 
>                                 - o -
> 
> = Wicket Proposal =
> 
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
> 
> == Rationale ==
> 
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost, and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
> 
> The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache Software
> Foundation for several reasons:
> 
>  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> increased visibility and acceptance.
> 
>  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's infrastructure
> and legal protection.
> 
>  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache software for
> many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> togethers etc.
> 
>  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> Felix or Jetspeed.
> 
>  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even bigger.
> 
>  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
> 
> == Criteria ==
> 
> === Community ===
> 
> Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> everyone. It is released
> under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> maximum possible adoption by all
> potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> suggestions and
> contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> as contributors
> since the project's inception in 2004.
> 
> === Meritocracy ===
> 
> Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan Compagner and
> Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> project now has committers and users from around the world, and Jonathan
> Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches, then
> having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
> 
> == Scope of Sub projects ==
> 
> Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains several
> distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project that
> are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which includes
> a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too large,
> while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place where
> components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> core project.
> 
> Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> knowledgeable enough to change.
> 
> == Features ==
> 
> Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and form
> handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component model
> backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> favorite technology.
> 
> == Initial Source ==
> 
> The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
> 
> == Resources to be Created ==
> 
>  * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
>  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
>  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
>  * Confluence Wiki.
> 
> We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
> SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
> of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those participating
> in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the development
> of Wicket.
> 
> == Potential Issues ==
> 
> These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in order to
> maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
> 
> === Name ===
> 
> Obviously, the
> === Versions ===
> 
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
> 
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
> 
> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
> 
> The intention would be to proceed as follows:
>   *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
> moved to Apache.
>     * 1.2.x
>       *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  SF-hosted releases?
>     * 1.3
>       *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>     *  2.x
>       *  Primary development branch
>       *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
> 
> When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
> the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
> placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache, we are
> concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
> some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of release.
> 
> === Package Naming ===
> 
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
> 
> Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
> 
> == Other Potential Concerns ==
> 
> === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
> 
> Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate, Wicket is
> unlikely to fit into this category.
> 
> The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> others, who depend
> on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket continues on
> a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket, where
> the commit statistic form a sub view:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
> 
> === Experience with Open Source ===
> 
> Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
> 
> === Heterogenous Developers ===
> 
> The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
> employer.
> 
>  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various startups as
> a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script writing career.
> 
>  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for Teachscape
> Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
> 
>  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> software engineer
> 
>  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus) and is
> working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its core.
> 
>  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> Teachscape Inc.
> 
>  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT Architect.
> 
>  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> Consultant
> 
>  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also uses
> wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
> 
>  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
> for EEA as a software engineer
> 
>  * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a software
> engineer
> 
>  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
> 
>  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> engineer
> 
>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
> 
> In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various other
> countries.
> 
> All contributors come from a software background, but we - informally -
> have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> team has committed code, and may do so.
> 
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
> 
> None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though two -
> Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher Manning) in
> their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day jobs,
> some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
> choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.
> 
> === Ties to other Apache Products ===
> 
> Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code from
> Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> tries to stay as lean as possible though.
> 
> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
> 
> The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the club.
> 
> == Committers ==
> 
>  * Jonathan Locke
>  * Eelco Hillenius
>  * Johan Compagner
>  * Martijn Dashorst
>  * Juergen Donnerstag
>  * Igor Vaynberg
>  * Gwyn Evans
>  * Matej Knopp
>  * Janne Hietamäki
>  * Frank Bille Jensen
>  * Ate Douma
>  * Jan Blok
> 
> == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
> 
> Incubator PMC
> 
> == Champions ==
> 
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
> 
> == Mentors ==
> 
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>  * Bertrand Delacretaz
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>]

+1

On 24 Aug 06, at 3:02 AM 24 Aug 06, Upayavira wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Without further ado (and before my PC dies again), I'd like to call a
> vote on accepting Wicket into the incubator.
>
> As previously mentioned, the Wicket community held a unanimous vote to
> approach the incubator. The vote thread is here:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/wicket-develop@lists.sourceforge.net/ 
> index.html#08808
>
> Below is the complete proposal for this project.
>
> So, please cast your votes:
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:
>
> Regards, Upayavira
>
>                                 - o -
>
> = Wicket Proposal =
>
> This proposal outlines the creation of a new top-level Wicket project
> within the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> == Rationale ==
>
> Wicket is a unique web application framework that focusses on bringing
> plain object oriented Java programming to the web tier. It is  
> unique in
> it's focus amongst the (many) web frameworks that exist today. Due to
> it's unmanaged nature and reliance on plain Java, it is a very good
> match for frameworks like OSGi and Eclipse RSP. Wicket has been  
> gaining
> a very steady increase in popularity, and with two books coming out  
> and
> vastly improved new releases we are working on, we expect this  
> trend to
> continue. We consider moving to Apache being an additional boost,  
> and we
> hope it will open the way for possible future cooperation with other
> Apache projects.
>
> The maintainers of Wicket are interested in joining the Apache  
> Software
> Foundation for several reasons:
>
>  * Apache has a widely recognized name, which will help Wicket get an
> increased visibility and acceptance.
>
>  * We'd like to enjoy the benefits of utilizing Apache's  
> infrastructure
> and legal protection.
>
>  * Most team members have been enthusiastic users of Apache  
> software for
> many years and would like to be part of the family with it's get
> togethers etc.
>
>  * It might open the door for cooperation with other projects, such as
> Felix or Jetspeed.
>
>  * Apache seems to attract great communities around its projects, we
> hope joining Apache will help as make our growing community even  
> bigger.
>
>  * We hope to contribute to Apache's ongoing success by delivering an
> innovative, dynamic project with an enthusiastic user base.
>
> == Criteria ==
>
> === Community ===
>
> Wicket has striven to foster a diverse community that is open to
> everyone. It is released
> under a non-reciprocal license (Apache License 2.0) to encourage the
> maximum possible adoption by all
> potential users and developers. The Wicket community encourages
> suggestions and
> contributions from any potential user, and more developers have joined
> as contributors
> since the project's inception in 2004.
>
> === Meritocracy ===
>
> Wicket was originally created by Jonathan Locke in April 2004. Then it
> was taken over in September 2004 by Eelco Hillenius, Johan  
> Compagner and
> Martijn Dashorst. Chris Turner and Juergen Donnerstag were invited to
> join that same week based on their contributions and discussions. The
> project now has committers and users from around the world, and  
> Jonathan
> Locke is back with the project again. The newer committers of the
> project joined in subsequent years by initially submitting patches,  
> then
> having commit privileges for some of the applications (wicket-stuff),
> and then privileges over a larger range of applications. The project
> members understand the importance of letting motivated individuals
> contribute to the project after they have proven themselves.
>
> == Scope of Sub projects ==
>
> Wicket is distributed as one large subversion tree, but contains  
> several
> distinct parts: the core framework, a couple of extensions project  
> that
> are endorsed by the core developers, an examples project (which  
> includes
> a component reference), a quick start project and a developer sandbox.
> One of the extensions projects, called wicket-extensions, has a dual
> purpose. The first is to ensure the core project does not get too  
> large,
> while still having a place to put interesting components and utility
> classes. The second purpose of that project is to provide a place  
> where
> components can prove themselves before potentially graduating to the
> core project.
>
> Whilst Wicket has these various subprojects, access to the subversion
> tree is maintained with a single ACL. Once voted in as a committer, an
> individual will have access to the entire tree, and trust is used to
> ensure that they only touch the parts of the tree that they are
> knowledgeable enough to change.
>
> == Features ==
>
> Wicket is a Java web application framework that takes simplicity,
> separation of concerns and ease of development to a whole new level.
> Wicket pages can be mocked up, previewed and later revised using
> standard WYSIWYG HTML design tools. Dynamic content processing and  
> form
> handling is all handled in Java code using a first-class component  
> model
> backed by POJO data beans that can easily be persisted using your
> favorite technology.
>
> == Initial Source ==
>
> The source for Wicket that is to be imported is currently within the
> Wicket project at SourceForge, and is all ASL2.0 licensed.
>
> == Resources to be Created ==
>
>  * dev, private and Announce mailing lists.
>  * Copy current subversion code, and create a commits mailing list.
>  * Copy Sourceforge issues into Apache system, if possible
>  * Confluence Wiki.
>
> We may, at some point during incubation, choose to bring our existing
> SourceForge hosted user list across to the Incubator. Given the nature
> of Wicket, users are also very much developers, and those  
> participating
> in the user list also provide a valuable contribution to the  
> development
> of Wicket.
>
> == Potential Issues ==
>
> These are a few details of how incubation will need to work in  
> order to
> maintain compatability for existing users whilst moving forwards to
> adopt an Apache approach for newer code.
>
> === Name ===
>
> Obviously, the
> === Versions ===
>
> Wicket currently has three versions of their code base, 1.2 (the  
> current
> release), 1.3 (planned) and 2.0 (unreleased).
>
> We would like to keep all three versions on the same  
> infrastructure, and
> would thus like to bring all three versions over to Apache.
>
> This would involve the need to be able to make releases of 1.2 and 1.3
> during incubation, as they have a current user base to serve that is
> already using the product.
>
> The intention would be to proceed as follows:
>   *  All source hosted at Apache, with mailing lists & web-site/wiki
> moved to Apache.
>     * 1.2.x
>       *  Continue in maintainance/bug-fix mode
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-1.2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  SF-hosted releases?
>     * 1.3
>       *  Developed (basically 1.2+ some new features from HEAD (2.x))
>       *  'wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-1.3.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>     *  2.x
>       *  Primary development branch
>       *  'org.apache.wicket.*' package name
>       *  'wicket-incubating-2.x' jar names, etc
>       *  ASF-hosted releases
>
> When approaching a final release (whether 1.3 or 2.0), we will assess
> the impact upon our existing community of where these releases are
> placed. Whilst we would like to do all of our releases at Apache,  
> we are
> concerned that this might cause some of our existing and loyal users
> some difficulty, and thus will re-evaluate this at the time of  
> release.
>
> === Package Naming ===
>
> Wicket Java code uses the wicket.* package hierarchy. At this  
> point, we
> would propose that code in versions 1.2 and 1.3 would switch to ASF
> servers, but maintain the wicket.* namespace, but code in 2.0 would
> switch to an org.apache.wicket.* namespace.
>
> Anything else would cause an unnecessary disruption to our users.
>
> == Other Potential Concerns ==
>
> === Likelihood of Becoming an Orphaned Product ===
>
> Assuming an "orphaned product" is one that arrives at the Apache
> Incubator and then slowly dies before being ready to incubate,  
> Wicket is
> unlikely to fit into this category.
>
> The Wicket code is currently used and maintained by the authors and
> others, who depend
> on it for their livelihood. Continued development of Wicket  
> continues on
> a daily basis. Statistics can be found here:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=119783&ugn=wicket,  
> where
> the commit statistic form a sub view:
> http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/detail.php? 
> group_id=119783&ugn=wicket&type=svn.
>
> === Experience with Open Source ===
>
> Most of the developers have been actively involved in multiple other
> open source projects for years (jakarta regex, Eclipse plugins,
> jWebUnit, Subclipse, SquirrelSql, JetSpeed, etc). But for all of the
> developers the involvement in Wicket currently is the major one.
>
> === Heterogenous Developers ===
>
> The developers are diverse, both geographically and in terms of their
> employers. Of our 13 committers, no more than two work for the same
> employer.
>
>  * Jonathan Locke is from the US and is involved in various  
> startups as
> a software engineer and co-owner, and pursues a movie script  
> writing career.
>
>  * Eelco Hillenius is from the Netherlands but is in the process of
> moving to the US (Seattle/ San Francisco). He currently is employed
> through his own company, Code Droid, but will be working for  
> Teachscape
> Inc. from October on as a software engineer.
>
>  * Martijn Dashorst is from The Netherlands and works for Topicus as a
> software engineer
>
>  * Johan Compagner is from The Netherlands and is an independent
> consultant for its own company J-COM (regularly hired by Topicus)  
> and is
> working at a company Servoy that also uses wicket technology in its  
> core.
>
>  * Igor Vaynberg is from the USA working as a software engineer for
> Teachscape Inc.
>
>  * Juergen Donnerstag is from Germany and works for EDS as an IT  
> Architect.
>
>  * Gwyn Evans is from the UK and works for SmartTrust as a Solution
> Consultant
>
>  * Janne Hietamäki is from Finland and works for Cemron (that also  
> uses
> wicket technology in its core) as a technical director
>
>  * Matej Knopp is from The Slovak Republic, is a CS student and works
> for EEA as a software engineer
>
>  * Frank Bille Jensen is from Denmark and works for Avaleo as a  
> software
> engineer
>
>  * Ate Douma is from The Netherlands as a software engineer
>
>  * Jan Blok is from The Netherlands and works for Servoy as a software
> engineer
>
>  * Chris Turner is from the UK and works as an independent consultant.
> He does not intend to move with us to Apache.
>
> In addition, there are other contributors from France, Germany, Spain,
> the UK, US, Canada, Brazil, India, Japan, China, Iran, and various  
> other
> countries.
>
> All contributors come from a software background, but we -  
> informally -
> have some different tasks. For instance, Martijn is in charge of the
> releases, Gwyn of maintaining the WIKI and possibly more site related
> things and Jonathan provides regular code reviews. But any one of the
> team has committed code, and may do so.
>
> === Reliance on Salaried Developers ===
>
> None of the developers rely on Wicket for consulting work, though  
> two -
> Martijn and Eelco -  are writing Wicket In Action (publisher  
> Manning) in
> their spare time. Most of the developers use Wicket for their day  
> jobs,
> some for multiple projects, and will do so for a considerable while as
> their companies (specifically Topicus, Cemron, Avaleo and Teachscape)
> choose Wicket as their development framework of choice.
>
> === Ties to other Apache Products ===
>
> Wicket uses Jakarta Commons Logging and Log4j and adopted some code  
> from
> Jakarta Commons Upload. It uses Maven for it's build process. Wicket
> tries to stay as lean as possible though.
>
> === An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand ===
>
> The ASF has a strong brand, and that brand is in itself attractive.
> However, the developers of Wicket have been quite successful on their
> own and could continue on that path with no problems at all. We are
> interested in joining the ASF in order to increase our contacts and
> visibility in the open source world. Furthermore, we have been
> enthusiastic users of Apache from the earliest hour (remember JServ
> anyone?), and feel honored at getting the opportunity to join the  
> club.
>
> == Committers ==
>
>  * Jonathan Locke
>  * Eelco Hillenius
>  * Johan Compagner
>  * Martijn Dashorst
>  * Juergen Donnerstag
>  * Igor Vaynberg
>  * Gwyn Evans
>  * Matej Knopp
>  * Janne Hietamäki
>  * Frank Bille Jensen
>  * Ate Douma
>  * Jan Blok
>
> == Proposed Apache Sponsor ==
>
> Incubator PMC
>
> == Champions ==
>
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>
> == Mentors ==
>
>  * Upayavira
>  * Alex Karasulu
>  * Sylvain Wallez
>  * Bertrand Delacretaz
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Jason van Zyl
jason@maven.org




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Re: [VOTE] Accept Wicket into the Incubator

[Alex Karasulu <ao...@bellsouth.net>]

Upayavira wrote:

> So, please cast your votes:
> 
> [X] +1 Accept Wicket as an Incubator podling
> [ ]  0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject this proposal for the following reason:

+1
Alex

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