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Posted to dev@apr.apache.org by jean-frederic clere <jf...@fujitsu-siemens.com> on 2001/06/29 18:00:34 UTC
Re: problem with mod_webapp
Aaron Bannert wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:35:29PM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> > > What if (random thoughts coming out now), instead of requiring people to
> > > build APR (since that seems the biggest source of problems), we don't simply
> > > ask them where the tarball is, and then in our configure script, we
> > > configure it, and then build it together while building the module...
> > >
> > > In that way we won't have troubles with previous APR installations/builds,
> > > we _know_ what we're going to supply to the APR configure script and we
> > > solve all those troubles?
> >
> > Yup, that's what httpd-2.0 does. Just require them to slap the apr
> > sources in srclib (or something like that).
> >
> > APR isn't standalone just yet. I was shocked when I saw that
> > mod_webapp required an install of APR. =) -- justin
No problem, httpd-2.0 installed it for me ;-)
>
> APR *will* be standalone, but since it is not yet completely stable it
> may at random times not be standalone. That may be unsatisfactory for
> j-t-c, or maybe that just means that we have to work harder to get
> APR to be standalone.
>
> Last time I built APR standalone for use with j-t-c I didn't have a
> problem with it (on Solaris 8/sparc and Linux/RH 7.1/x86). We just have
> to have docs that capture all the scenarios (which is much harder to do
> in scripts).
I am using normaly using the APR (static libraries) resulting of the httpd-2.0
installation. There are always small things to arrange but a part of changes
must be done in APR and a smaller part of them in mod_webapp.
Using APR sources like httpd-2.0 is dangerous: What will happend when mod_webapp
for Apache-2.0 will be available and that httpd-2.0 and mod_webapp use a
different APR version sources?
APRVARS problably need to be improved, but I am not sure using APR sources
instead APR installation really helps.
>
> Maybe I can post some doc updates from my experiences building that beast.
>
> -aaron
Re: APR != HTTPD :) (Was: Re: problem with mod_webapp)
Posted by David Reid <dr...@jetnet.co.uk>.
> On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:20:31AM +0100, David Reid wrote:
> > Why? If we have shared libraries available can't it just use those? I
mean
> > at present I'm not sure apache can, so this whole area needs some
looking at
> > yet.
>
> The constant problem on tomcat-dev (and maybe tomcat-user, I don't
> subscribe to that) is that people keep running into problems with MM.
> mod_webapp is the only program, AFAIK, where APR is expected to be
> installed rather than build from the source.
>
> On most Unix-based platforms, APR requires MM (included in the APR
> source/tree), but does not include it in libapr.la - you need to also
> link against it. The problem is that this is only noted in APRVARS -
> which isn't installed by APR - it only lives in the source dirs.
Well, longer term we plan to axe MM so this problem will probably cure
itself :) That's the hope anyways.
david
Re: APR != HTTPD :) (Was: Re: problem with mod_webapp)
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@ebuilt.com>.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:20:31AM +0100, David Reid wrote:
> Why? If we have shared libraries available can't it just use those? I mean
> at present I'm not sure apache can, so this whole area needs some looking at
> yet.
The constant problem on tomcat-dev (and maybe tomcat-user, I don't
subscribe to that) is that people keep running into problems with MM.
mod_webapp is the only program, AFAIK, where APR is expected to be
installed rather than build from the source.
On most Unix-based platforms, APR requires MM (included in the APR
source/tree), but does not include it in libapr.la - you need to also
link against it. The problem is that this is only noted in APRVARS -
which isn't installed by APR - it only lives in the source dirs.
I kind of think that the only solution to this is to use something
similar to apxs - which is strikingly similar to gtk-config et al -
and even more "helpful" as it defines your compiler, etc, etc. There
just isn't any standard way of specifying external dependencies that
APR programs should expect. -- justin
Re: APR != HTTPD :) (Was: Re: problem with mod_webapp)
Posted by Kevin Pilch-Bisson <ke...@pilch-bisson.net>.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2001 at 12:20:31AM +0100, David Reid wrote:
> > Ian Holsman at ianh@cnet.com wrote:
> >
> > > On 29 Jun 2001 11:53:47 -0700, Kevin Pilch-Bisson wrote:
> > >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:28:46AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> > >>> I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
> > >>> require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
> > >>> source? -- justin
> > >>>
> > >> Subversion requires apr source to be present in subversion/apr.
>
> Why? If we have shared libraries available can't it just use those? I mean
> at present I'm not sure apache can, so this whole area needs some looking at
> yet.
Not yet unfortunately, although this is planned once apr stabilizes a bit.
It is mostly to ensure that when people cvs up subversion, they get apr up to
date as well.
>
> If you're building subversion on the same system as apache can you tell
> either apache or subversion where to look for the source? ISTR this is
> something we've talked about for apache before now. AFAIK not done anything
> about it yet.
>
Likewise not yet, which is a real pain since the subversion server actually
requires apache 2.0.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kevin Pilch-Bisson http://www.pilch-bisson.net
"Historically speaking, the presences of wheels in Unix
has never precluded their reinvention." - Larry Wall
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: APR != HTTPD :) (Was: Re: problem with mod_webapp)
Posted by David Reid <dr...@jetnet.co.uk>.
> Ian Holsman at ianh@cnet.com wrote:
>
> > On 29 Jun 2001 11:53:47 -0700, Kevin Pilch-Bisson wrote:
> >> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:28:46AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> >>> I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
> >>> require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
> >>> source? -- justin
> >>>
> >> Subversion requires apr source to be present in subversion/apr.
Why? If we have shared libraries available can't it just use those? I mean
at present I'm not sure apache can, so this whole area needs some looking at
yet.
If you're building subversion on the same system as apache can you tell
either apache or subversion where to look for the source? ISTR this is
something we've talked about for apache before now. AFAIK not done anything
about it yet.
> >
> > should we be creating a 'apr-config' ala gtk-config???
> > (just imagining a system with HTTP & subversion and 2 APRs)
Yuck!
>
> I don't know what gtk-config is, but for the webapp module under Apache
2.0
> I was thinking about linking it directly to the httpd binary (David told
me
> last week he's doing something like it in Beos).
Yep, for DSO's and I think Victor does something similar for AIX.
> I was just wondering if there was the possibility to copy APR_VARS in the
> 2.0 APXS, might save a lot of headaches...
This should be looked into as APXS is a useful tool but will likely need
some serious modifications :)
david
APR != HTTPD :) (Was: Re: problem with mod_webapp)
Posted by "Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>.
Ian Holsman at ianh@cnet.com wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2001 11:53:47 -0700, Kevin Pilch-Bisson wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:28:46AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>>> I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
>>> require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
>>> source? -- justin
>>>
>> Subversion requires apr source to be present in subversion/apr.
>
> should we be creating a 'apr-config' ala gtk-config???
> (just imagining a system with HTTP & subversion and 2 APRs)
I don't know what gtk-config is, but for the webapp module under Apache 2.0
I was thinking about linking it directly to the httpd binary (David told me
last week he's doing something like it in Beos).
I was just wondering if there was the possibility to copy APR_VARS in the
2.0 APXS, might save a lot of headaches...
Pier
Re: problem with mod_webapp
Posted by Ian Holsman <ia...@cnet.com>.
On 29 Jun 2001 11:53:47 -0700, Kevin Pilch-Bisson wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:28:46AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> > I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
> > require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
> > source? -- justin
> >
> Subversion requires apr source to be present in subversion/apr.
should we be creating a 'apr-config' ala gtk-config???
(just imagining a system with HTTP & subversion and 2 APRs)
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Kevin Pilch-Bisson http://www.pilch-bisson.net
> "Historically speaking, the presences of wheels in Unix
> has never precluded their reinvention." - Larry Wall
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: problem with mod_webapp
Posted by Kevin Pilch-Bisson <ke...@pilch-bisson.net>.
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 10:28:46AM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
> require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
> source? -- justin
>
Subversion requires apr source to be present in subversion/apr.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kevin Pilch-Bisson http://www.pilch-bisson.net
"Historically speaking, the presences of wheels in Unix
has never precluded their reinvention." - Larry Wall
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: problem with mod_webapp
Posted by "Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>.
Me dork not reply-ing to ALL :)
Justin Erenkrantz at jerenkrantz@ebuilt.com wrote:
> [ Dropping tomcat-dev, but adding CC to pier to make sure he sees this ]
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:00:34PM +0200, jean-frederic clere wrote:
>> I am using normaly using the APR (static libraries) resulting of the
>> httpd-2.0
>> installation. There are always small things to arrange but a part of changes
>> must be done in APR and a smaller part of them in mod_webapp.
>>
>> Using APR sources like httpd-2.0 is dangerous: What will happend when
>> mod_webapp
>> for Apache-2.0 will be available and that httpd-2.0 and mod_webapp use a
>> different APR version sources?
>
> httpd-2.0 doesn't include APR - it just requires that APR to be
> downloaded into a specific directory. The maintainers on both sides
> need to make sure that what is in APR works for their respective
> projects. As a conveinence factor, the httpd-2.0 tarballs include the
> corresponding snapshot of APR. Remember APR has never been formally
> released.
>
>> APRVARS problably need to be improved, but I am not sure using APR sources
>> instead APR installation really helps.
>
> As I understand it, we don't include APRVARS in the installation. We're
> also not copying over the required mm library when we do an install. At
> this point, it is almost impossible to use APR in an installed state.
> We need files that aren't being copied over. Someone who wants to clean
> up the install process is more than welcome to submit patches (I'd
> likely commit them if they don't have commit access), but until APR is
> formally released, I think using APR from an installed directory is
> asking for trouble. I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
> require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
> source? -- justin
That's why I was thinking to include it in the webapp module source
distrib... Easier, and when we'll have to tackle AP2.0, we'll see, or we can
simply do a 2 stage build linking the module against the "httpd" binary
(that works on BeOS, as David Reid told me last week)...
We can "discover" the compilation options, and then find the libraries
already from the Apache 2.0 binary :)
Pier
Re: problem with mod_webapp
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <je...@ebuilt.com>.
[ Dropping tomcat-dev, but adding CC to pier to make sure he sees this ]
On Fri, Jun 29, 2001 at 06:00:34PM +0200, jean-frederic clere wrote:
> I am using normaly using the APR (static libraries) resulting of the httpd-2.0
> installation. There are always small things to arrange but a part of changes
> must be done in APR and a smaller part of them in mod_webapp.
>
> Using APR sources like httpd-2.0 is dangerous: What will happend when mod_webapp
> for Apache-2.0 will be available and that httpd-2.0 and mod_webapp use a
> different APR version sources?
httpd-2.0 doesn't include APR - it just requires that APR to be
downloaded into a specific directory. The maintainers on both sides
need to make sure that what is in APR works for their respective
projects. As a conveinence factor, the httpd-2.0 tarballs include the
corresponding snapshot of APR. Remember APR has never been formally
released.
> APRVARS problably need to be improved, but I am not sure using APR sources
> instead APR installation really helps.
As I understand it, we don't include APRVARS in the installation. We're
also not copying over the required mm library when we do an install. At
this point, it is almost impossible to use APR in an installed state.
We need files that aren't being copied over. Someone who wants to clean
up the install process is more than welcome to submit patches (I'd
likely commit them if they don't have commit access), but until APR is
formally released, I think using APR from an installed directory is
asking for trouble. I guess I'd see what Subversion does - do they
require an "installed" APR, or do they ask for the location of the
source? -- justin
Re: problem with mod_webapp
Posted by "Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>.
jean-frederic clere at jfrederic.clere@fujitsu-siemens.com wrote:
> Aaron Bannert wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 06:35:29PM -0700, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>>>> What if (random thoughts coming out now), instead of requiring people to
>>>> build APR (since that seems the biggest source of problems), we don't
>>>> simply
>>>> ask them where the tarball is, and then in our configure script, we
>>>> configure it, and then build it together while building the module...
>>>>
>>>> In that way we won't have troubles with previous APR installations/builds,
>>>> we _know_ what we're going to supply to the APR configure script and we
>>>> solve all those troubles?
>>>
>>> Yup, that's what httpd-2.0 does. Just require them to slap the apr
>>> sources in srclib (or something like that).
>>>
>>> APR isn't standalone just yet. I was shocked when I saw that
>>> mod_webapp required an install of APR. =) -- justin
>
> No problem, httpd-2.0 installed it for me ;-)
>
>>
>> APR *will* be standalone, but since it is not yet completely stable it
>> may at random times not be standalone. That may be unsatisfactory for
>> j-t-c, or maybe that just means that we have to work harder to get
>> APR to be standalone.
>>
>> Last time I built APR standalone for use with j-t-c I didn't have a
>> problem with it (on Solaris 8/sparc and Linux/RH 7.1/x86). We just have
>> to have docs that capture all the scenarios (which is much harder to do
>> in scripts).
>
> I am using normaly using the APR (static libraries) resulting of the httpd-2.0
> installation. There are always small things to arrange but a part of changes
> must be done in APR and a smaller part of them in mod_webapp.
>
> Using APR sources like httpd-2.0 is dangerous: What will happend when
> mod_webapp
> for Apache-2.0 will be available and that httpd-2.0 and mod_webapp use a
> different APR version sources?
>
> APRVARS problably need to be improved, but I am not sure using APR sources
> instead APR installation really helps.
It should just a difference in the build process..... If you say
--with-apache2=/myApache2.0Dir/ or something like it in the configure file,
the webapp-apr should be ignored, and we rely on AP20...
Pier