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Posted to rivet-dev@tcl.apache.org by Harald Oehlmann <ha...@elmicron.de> on 2010/11/17 15:35:00 UTC
Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
One line in the announcement of Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0 made me
quite happy:
"Works with Rivet"
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/a75d93794130f103#
Harald
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>.
Zoran (or archiveware) should be the current owner of the name, we may ask him
to redirect it to the new home. In the meanwhile the TCLCA may set up itself
to takeup at least the tdom.org name.
-- Massimo
P.S. 0.8.x confers on the project a blurring outline. If Rolf could elaborate
a 1.0 release goals paper it would give a purpose for someone to work on it
and signal the community the project is at least stable, if not actively
maintained.
P.P.S I do use tdom every time I need to manipulate an xml dom
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 16:11:55 -0600, Damon Courtney wrote
>
>
> Awesome. Now if we could just get the whole of Tcl/Tk off of freakin'
SourceForge.
>
> There was some talk of this at the conference, but the general consensus
>seemed to be that it was hard and we'd lose history because CVS -> Git
>conversion is not perfect enough. To which I replied that it's better than
>putting 10 more years of history in CVS. But whatever. I'm not a core team
>member, and I couldn't budge that lot even if I were.
>
> Onward and upward, I say. 0-]
>
> D
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by David Welton <da...@dedasys.com>.
> There was some talk of this at the conference, but the general consensus
> seemed to be that it was hard and we'd lose history because CVS -> Git
> conversion is not perfect enough. To which I replied that it's better than
> putting 10 more years of history in CVS. But whatever. I'm not a core team
> member, and I couldn't budge that lot even if I were.
The Postgresql guys managed:
http://lwn.net/Articles/409635/
Looks like some fairly serious effort thought.
--
David N. Welton
http://www.welton.it/davidw/
http://www.dedasys.com/
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Damon Courtney <da...@tclhome.com>.
> I've created a GitHub "organization" for the tDOM project and have already emailed the project's previous maintainers to indicate that I would transfer access to them once they contact me.
>
> The static HTML of the project website is available here: http://tdom.github.com/
>
> The git repos are at https://github.com/tDOM
Awesome. Now if we could just get the whole of Tcl/Tk off of freakin' SourceForge.
There was some talk of this at the conference, but the general consensus seemed to be that it was hard and we'd lose history because CVS -> Git conversion is not perfect enough. To which I replied that it's better than putting 10 more years of history in CVS. But whatever. I'm not a core team member, and I couldn't budge that lot even if I were.
Onward and upward, I say. 0-]
D
Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Jeff Lawson <je...@bovine.net>.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 3:49 PM, David Welton <da...@dedasys.com> wrote:
> > I've been using github for a while and I like it. And with git, everyone
> > who has a distribution checked out has the entire repository, which
> really
> > helps if the hosting goes away or gets corrupted or whatever.
>
> No horse in this race, but github is a sensible thing to use. First
> of all, because it's a pretty good system, and secondly, because it's
> visible these days, because it's *the* go-to repository as of late.
> Tcl's hidden enough, so anything that helps put it out in front of
> people and makes it easier for them to get involved is probably a good
> move.
>
>
>
I've created a GitHub "organization" for the tDOM project and have already
emailed the project's previous maintainers to indicate that I would transfer
access to them once they contact me.
The static HTML of the project website is available here:
http://tdom.github.com/
The git repos are at https://github.com/tDOM
Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by David Welton <da...@dedasys.com>.
> I've been using github for a while and I like it. And with git, everyone
> who has a distribution checked out has the entire repository, which really
> helps if the hosting goes away or gets corrupted or whatever.
No horse in this race, but github is a sensible thing to use. First
of all, because it's a pretty good system, and secondly, because it's
visible these days, because it's *the* go-to repository as of late.
Tcl's hidden enough, so anything that helps put it out in front of
people and makes it easier for them to get involved is probably a good
move.
--
David N. Welton
http://www.welton.it/davidw/
http://www.dedasys.com/
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Damon Courtney <da...@tclhome.com>.
Well, it's not exciting or glamorous to run your own "forge" that's for sure. At this juncture I was just proposing a box somewhere that people can host Fossil repos on. Fossil already has its own built-in bug tracker, wiki, etc... I'm not sure how hard it would be to run multiple repos on a single machine with since Fossil kinda wants to run its own web server.
If we could figure that out, each project already has all the bits it needs. You can have a "project" website up and running in Fossil just by creating the repo. At least to start with. If someone wants something more than the default, they can kick in some work on Fossil and do it. *shrug*
That being said, I really like Github. Their issue tracker is really not going to work for something with high volume though. It's already slow as hell for me, and I have only 100 or so issues. Blech.
D
On Nov 17, 2010, at 12:30 PM, Karl Lehenbauer wrote:
> I agree it would be prestigious and helpful for the Tcl community to host
> its own community development environment, but I'm concerned about the
> ability of the community to actually fulfill on it. It's a lot of effort,
> and nobody would be working on it full time. I feel like a professional
> organization operating as a business is more likely to be successful over
> time.
>
> I've been using github for a while and I like it. And with git, everyone
> who has a distribution checked out has the entire repository, which really
> helps if the hosting goes away or gets corrupted or whatever.
>
> If there is something really turnkey, then maybe that is the way. If not,
> it's a minefield. Even sourceforge has been unresponsive and slow to
> adapt. If we don't have the resources and we try to do it anyway, we'll
> be even worse.
>
> Just my $0.02...
>
> On 11/17/10 12:12 PM, "Damon Courtney" <da...@tclhome.com> wrote:
>
>>> Putting on one of my other hats for a moment - is this a service that
>>> the Tcl Community Association should be offering to the community? Or
>>> is this something better handled via sourceForge or the other code
>>> repository services.
>>>
>>> Just for general info, currently, TCLCA pays for the wiki, runs the
>>> US conference and acts as our front for the Google Summer of Code.
>>
>>
>> Personally, I'm against using SourceForge for future projects. There has
>> already been much talk about getting Tcl/Tk off of SourceForge in the
>> future, and it is exceedingly hard to do that right now. I would hate to
>> see us put more projects there. I don't have an answer as to what we
>> SHOULD use, but that's just my opinion.
>>
>> Some mention has been made of using Fossil repos on some future basis.
>> It's distributed, nice and small, and it's written by one of our own. I
>> use Git for just about everything these days and Github for hosting, but
>> I would rather come up with something that we (we being the Tcl
>> community) own ourselves. We don't have anything like Rubyforge or the
>> like, but it sure would be nice.
>>
>> I guess I don't have an answers about what we SHOULD do right now, just
>> an opinion on what I'd rather we not do. Which is not very helpful, I
>> grant you, but that's all I got. More discussion with the community as a
>> whole is needed here. TDOM is a project that while definitely relating
>> to Rivet and the Web in general is a symptom of a larger issue. We don't
>> have anyplace to put stuff that can belong to the community. At this
>> point I don't even think we need something as big and grand as Rubyforge.
>> Just a machine where Fossil (or Git or whatever) repos could live would
>> be a good start. We can worry about the interface later.
>>
>> D
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>>
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Karl Lehenbauer <ka...@gmail.com>.
I agree it would be prestigious and helpful for the Tcl community to host
its own community development environment, but I'm concerned about the
ability of the community to actually fulfill on it. It's a lot of effort,
and nobody would be working on it full time. I feel like a professional
organization operating as a business is more likely to be successful over
time.
I've been using github for a while and I like it. And with git, everyone
who has a distribution checked out has the entire repository, which really
helps if the hosting goes away or gets corrupted or whatever.
If there is something really turnkey, then maybe that is the way. If not,
it's a minefield. Even sourceforge has been unresponsive and slow to
adapt. If we don't have the resources and we try to do it anyway, we'll
be even worse.
Just my $0.02...
On 11/17/10 12:12 PM, "Damon Courtney" <da...@tclhome.com> wrote:
>> Putting on one of my other hats for a moment - is this a service that
>> the Tcl Community Association should be offering to the community? Or
>> is this something better handled via sourceForge or the other code
>> repository services.
>>
>> Just for general info, currently, TCLCA pays for the wiki, runs the
>> US conference and acts as our front for the Google Summer of Code.
>
>
>Personally, I'm against using SourceForge for future projects. There has
>already been much talk about getting Tcl/Tk off of SourceForge in the
>future, and it is exceedingly hard to do that right now. I would hate to
>see us put more projects there. I don't have an answer as to what we
>SHOULD use, but that's just my opinion.
>
>Some mention has been made of using Fossil repos on some future basis.
>It's distributed, nice and small, and it's written by one of our own. I
>use Git for just about everything these days and Github for hosting, but
>I would rather come up with something that we (we being the Tcl
>community) own ourselves. We don't have anything like Rubyforge or the
>like, but it sure would be nice.
>
>I guess I don't have an answers about what we SHOULD do right now, just
>an opinion on what I'd rather we not do. Which is not very helpful, I
>grant you, but that's all I got. More discussion with the community as a
>whole is needed here. TDOM is a project that while definitely relating
>to Rivet and the Web in general is a symptom of a larger issue. We don't
>have anyplace to put stuff that can belong to the community. At this
>point I don't even think we need something as big and grand as Rubyforge.
> Just a machine where Fossil (or Git or whatever) repos could live would
>be a good start. We can worry about the interface later.
>
>D
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Damon Courtney <da...@tclhome.com>.
> Putting on one of my other hats for a moment - is this a service that
> the Tcl Community Association should be offering to the community? Or
> is this something better handled via sourceForge or the other code
> repository services.
>
> Just for general info, currently, TCLCA pays for the wiki, runs the
> US conference and acts as our front for the Google Summer of Code.
Personally, I'm against using SourceForge for future projects. There has already been much talk about getting Tcl/Tk off of SourceForge in the future, and it is exceedingly hard to do that right now. I would hate to see us put more projects there. I don't have an answer as to what we SHOULD use, but that's just my opinion.
Some mention has been made of using Fossil repos on some future basis. It's distributed, nice and small, and it's written by one of our own. I use Git for just about everything these days and Github for hosting, but I would rather come up with something that we (we being the Tcl community) own ourselves. We don't have anything like Rubyforge or the like, but it sure would be nice.
I guess I don't have an answers about what we SHOULD do right now, just an opinion on what I'd rather we not do. Which is not very helpful, I grant you, but that's all I got. More discussion with the community as a whole is needed here. TDOM is a project that while definitely relating to Rivet and the Web in general is a symptom of a larger issue. We don't have anyplace to put stuff that can belong to the community. At this point I don't even think we need something as big and grand as Rubyforge. Just a machine where Fossil (or Git or whatever) repos could live would be a good start. We can worry about the interface later.
D
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Clif Flynt <cl...@cflynt.com>.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 05:57:28PM +0100, Massimo Manghi wrote:
> ...
> As a project tdom is currently floating in the air. Pointing your
> browser to www.tdom.org you get the home page of Archiware, which used
> to host the project pages. Archiware had a major break-in in september
> (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tdom/message/2010) and the attacker
> disrupted their CVS. As a consequence the latest changes to the code
> were lost. Archiveware is unwilling to keep tdom and this is raising the
> problem of maintaining the project coherently on the net. AFAIK a copy
> of the sources were recovered from the Debian source archives and from a
> number of other copies existing on the net adding confusion to packagers
> and users as well. Do you know if someone stepped forward to host the
> site and sorted out the issue?
>
Putting on one of my other hats for a moment - is this a service that
the Tcl Community Association should be offering to the community? Or
is this something better handled via sourceForge or the other code
repository services.
Just for general info, currently, TCLCA pays for the wiki, runs the
US conference and acts as our front for the Google Summer of Code.
Thanks,
Clif
--
... Clif Flynt ... http://www.cwflynt.com ... clif@cflynt.com ...
.. Tcl/Tk: A Developer's Guide (2nd edition) - Morgan Kauffman ..
.. 17'th Annual Tcl/Tk Conference: 2010, Oak Brook, IL USA ..
............. http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2010/ ............
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Jeff Lawson <je...@bovine.net>.
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:08 AM, Harald Oehlmann <
harald.oehlmann@elmicron.de> wrote:
> Am 17.11.2010 17:57, schrieb Massimo Manghi:
> > Do you know if someone stepped forward to host the
> > site and sorted out the issue?
>
> I contacted one month ago the maintainer I knew from ETCL 3 years ago:
> * Rolf Ade: rolf@pointsman.de
> There was no answer.
>
> Harald
>
I see that an existing archive of the repository has been identified on
Github, however its last commit was from Nov 2009:
https://github.com/makr/tdom
The wayback machine also has a copy of the website from Aug 2008:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080805035611/http://www.tdom.org/
If none of the original project maintainers can be reached, then perhaps a
new project should be set up on Google Code or SourceForge based on the last
known copy of the sources...
Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>.
On 11/17/2010 05:39 PM, Jeff Lawson wrote:
> Yes, the new Rivet support in tclws is the result of code changes that
> I developed for FlightAware and contributed back to the project.
> Deploying tclws Web Services under Rivet is substantially easier than
> under TclHttpd, since you only need to copy your rvt file into any
> server directory and don't need to make any other server config changes.
Jeff, just a question related to tclws but not exclusively to it
I see tclws is using tdom I presume to manage the XML.
As a project tdom is currently floating in the air. Pointing your
browser to www.tdom.org you get the home page of Archiware, which used
to host the project pages. Archiware had a major break-in in september
(http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/tdom/message/2010) and the attacker
disrupted their CVS. As a consequence the latest changes to the code
were lost. Archiveware is unwilling to keep tdom and this is raising the
problem of maintaining the project coherently on the net. AFAIK a copy
of the sources were recovered from the Debian source archives and from a
number of other copies existing on the net adding confusion to packagers
and users as well. Do you know if someone stepped forward to host the
site and sorted out the issue?
-- Massimo
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Jeff Lawson <je...@bovine.net>.
Yes, the new Rivet support in tclws is the result of code changes that I
developed for FlightAware and contributed back to the project. Deploying
tclws Web Services under Rivet is substantially easier than under TclHttpd,
since you only need to copy your rvt file into any server directory and
don't need to make any other server config changes.
2010/11/17 Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>
> I see Jeff Lawson is listed among the committers ...
>
>
> -- Massimo
>
>
> On 11/17/2010 03:35 PM, Harald Oehlmann wrote:
>
>> One line in the announcement of Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0 made me
>> quite happy:
>>
>> "Works with Rivet"
>>
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/a75d93794130f103#
>>
>> Harald
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>.
I see Jeff Lawson is listed among the committers ...
-- Massimo
On 11/17/2010 03:35 PM, Harald Oehlmann wrote:
> One line in the announcement of Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0 made me
> quite happy:
>
> "Works with Rivet"
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/a75d93794130f103#
>
> Harald
>
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Re: Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0
Posted by Massimo Manghi <ma...@unipr.it>.
Hi Harald,
thanks for the link.
The issue about having a structured tool for this purpose has been
brought up several times recently and this announcement is very timely.
In the process of revising the documentation page about xml messaging
and Ajax we may add a link to this project
-- Massimo
On 11/17/2010 03:35 PM, Harald Oehlmann wrote:
> One line in the announcement of Web Services for Tcl v1.2.0 made me
> quite happy:
>
> "Works with Rivet"
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.tcl/browse_thread/thread/a75d93794130f103#
>
> Harald
>
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