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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> on 2014/10/24 07:54:40 UTC
OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Hello,
> From: Andreas Säger [mailto:saegerei@t-online.de]
> Being a customer, I do see things differently.
> Every OOXML file is a vote against ODF.
theoretically correct, but practically?
> One day in future LO will save ODF as a secondary
> option.
Possible.
But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not ISO-standard.
If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses - not a question of software development.
> Finally MS wins
There is no tomorrow (or "finally") for it - MS wins today.
For example:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Berliner-Finanzaemter-wechseln-zurueck-auf-Microsoft-Office-2430961.html
> MS comes up with the next shit
life is not a pony farm and competition is not a throw with cotton balls. It is about the competition and we have to face, and not whine.
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@robweir.com>.
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 1:54 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> From: Andreas Säger [mailto:saegerei@t-online.de]
>
>> Being a customer, I do see things differently.
>> Every OOXML file is a vote against ODF.
>
> theoretically correct, but practically?
>
>> One day in future LO will save ODF as a secondary
>> option.
>
> Possible.
>
> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not ISO-standard.
>
> If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses - not a question of software development.
>
>> Finally MS wins
>
> There is no tomorrow (or "finally") for it - MS wins today.
>
> For example:
> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Berliner-Finanzaemter-wechseln-zurueck-auf-Microsoft-Office-2430961.html
>
>> MS comes up with the next shit
>
> life is not a pony farm and competition is not a throw with cotton balls. It is about the competition and we have to face, and not whine.
>
To put it in perspective, since your note was sent, 6 hours ago, we've
had over 30,000 downloads of AOO.
I think we need to consider that there are two broad groups of users:
1) Those who choose which suite to use.
2) Those who have no choice, because their employer decides for them,
either directly, or via their selection of a Linux distribution.
For those who have a choice I think we do very well, especially for
those who also must pay themselves. But clearly "selling" to a
corporation (or a government) is something else. In some cases a
government has an internal "champion" who pushes adoption of open
source. If he fails, he and the open source are gone. But even if
he succeeds, he may later change jobs and his successor might have
other ideas. I've seen this happen repeatedly in government with ODF
adoption. What one energetic champion accomplishes is reversed by
someone later.
Regards,
-Rob
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
> From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischmidt@gmail.com]
> I believe a decision like the one in Berlin is always political
> motivated. See for example the upcoming discussion about the
> same topic
> in Munich after changes in the administration.
You're absolutely right, but what can we do about it?
I know reactions of the OOo community to the former situation in Freiburg, and there were no optimal arguments.
I think the key would be to get involved in politically motivated questions those companies in the public debate, which are sponsors and supporters of AOO.
Why Companies?
Because companies better understand the needs of business customers.
Jörg
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Andreas Säger <sa...@t-online.de>.
Am 24.10.2014 um 09:59 schrieb Jürgen Schmidt:
> On 24/10/14 07:54, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello,
For example:
>> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Berliner-Finanzaemter-wechseln-zurueck-auf-Microsoft-Office-2430961.html
>>
>
> I believe a decision like the one in Berlin is always political
> motivated. See for example the upcoming discussion about the same topic
> in Munich after changes in the administration.
>
> Juergen
>
Hi,
The article on heise.de says it all. They exchange "data" through office
documents; and they don't want to fall behind ... whatever bleeding edge
[contradiction in itself].
Oh, of course they need MS Office for security reasons ... WTF?
A full featured OOXML suite exists. It costs some money and it should
always be used when OOXML is required. Your business opportunities are
the same as with ODF. Today virtually "everybody" writes filters and
parsers for OOXML but not for ODF.
If ODF were a lost case, both ODF suites would be lost anyway. Writing
another full featured OOXML suite would be a hopeless undertaking
because it is too much to implement differently in no time. Anything
less than "full featured" would not be accepted, "OOXML Strict" neiter.
Everything needs to be fully compatible and interoperable with MS
products which implies tight integration into MS operation system and
separation from other OSes. Even if such a product existed, Berlin
authorities would still insist in MS products because Berlin is one of
the most sleazy places in Germany. They don't care about money because
political life in Berlin "is a pony farm" indeed.
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by RA Stehmann <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>.
On 24.10.2014 11:14, Michal Hriň wrote:
>
>
> Dňa 24.10.2014 o 09:59 Jürgen Schmidt napísal(a):
>> On 24/10/14 07:54, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>> From: Andreas Säger [mailto:saegerei@t-online.de]
>>>
>>>> Being a customer, I do see things differently.
>>>> Every OOXML file is a vote against ODF.
>>>
>>> theoretically correct, but practically?
>>>
>>>> One day in future LO will save ODF as a secondary
>>>> option.
>>>
>>> Possible.
>>>
>>> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not
>>> ISO-standard.
>>>
>>> If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the standard, then
>>> it is a political issue that requires policy responses - not a
>>> question of software development.
>>>
>>>> Finally MS wins
>>>
>>> There is no tomorrow (or "finally") for it - MS wins today.
>>>
>>> For example:
>>> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Berliner-Finanzaemter-wechseln-zurueck-auf-Microsoft-Office-2430961.html
>>>
>>>
>>>> MS comes up with the next shit
>>>
>>> life is not a pony farm and competition is not a throw with cotton
>>> balls. It is about the competition and we have to face, and not whine.
>>>
>>
>> I believe a decision like the one in Berlin is always political
>> motivated. See for example the upcoming discussion about the same topic
>> in Munich after changes in the administration.
>>
>
> If you had elections in Berlin recently, that is it why ...
>
No elections, but Berlin gets a new chief major this year.
Regards
Michael
Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Michal Hriň <hr...@apache.org>.
Dňa 24.10.2014 o 09:59 Jürgen Schmidt napísal(a):
> On 24/10/14 07:54, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>> From: Andreas Säger [mailto:saegerei@t-online.de]
>>
>>> Being a customer, I do see things differently.
>>> Every OOXML file is a vote against ODF.
>>
>> theoretically correct, but practically?
>>
>>> One day in future LO will save ODF as a secondary
>>> option.
>>
>> Possible.
>>
>> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not ISO-standard.
>>
>> If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses - not a question of software development.
>>
>>> Finally MS wins
>>
>> There is no tomorrow (or "finally") for it - MS wins today.
>>
>> For example:
>> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Berliner-Finanzaemter-wechseln-zurueck-auf-Microsoft-Office-2430961.html
>>
>>> MS comes up with the next shit
>>
>> life is not a pony farm and competition is not a throw with cotton balls. It is about the competition and we have to face, and not whine.
>>
>
> I believe a decision like the one in Berlin is always political
> motivated. See for example the upcoming discussion about the same topic
> in Munich after changes in the administration.
>
If you had elections in Berlin recently, that is it why ...
> Juergen
>
>
>
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>.
On 24/10/14 07:54, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> From: Andreas Säger [mailto:saegerei@t-online.de]
>
>> Being a customer, I do see things differently.
>> Every OOXML file is a vote against ODF.
>
> theoretically correct, but practically?
>
>> One day in future LO will save ODF as a secondary
>> option.
>
> Possible.
>
> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not ISO-standard.
>
> If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses - not a question of software development.
>
>> Finally MS wins
>
> There is no tomorrow (or "finally") for it - MS wins today.
>
> For example:
> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Berliner-Finanzaemter-wechseln-zurueck-auf-Microsoft-Office-2430961.html
>
>> MS comes up with the next shit
>
> life is not a pony farm and competition is not a throw with cotton balls. It is about the competition and we have to face, and not whine.
>
I believe a decision like the one in Berlin is always political
motivated. See for example the upcoming discussion about the same topic
in Munich after changes in the administration.
Juergen
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
On 10/24/2014 11:42 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> <orcnote> below.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak [mailto:andrew@pitonyak.org]
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 06:18
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
>
>
> On 10/24/2014 01:54 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not
>> ISO-standard. If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the
>> standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses
>> - not a question of software development.
> I am not overly informed on this, but, I think that the primary
> complaint was that the OOXML ISO standard supports storing proprietary
> binary blobs that are not part of the standard as aprt of the document.
>
> <orcnote>
> This was and is a red herring. The ODF specification is just as
> permissive in this regard. For example, there is no specification
> on the binary formats of images that are incorporated in ODF packages
> by our favorite ODF-supporting software. Also, the allowance of OLE
> objects opens a very wide door in ODF that is exploited by the
> prominent implementations.
>
> What would be more interesting is to see what either specification
> says about how such material is identified so implementations can
> determine what is present.
>
> It would also be interesting to know how well implementations identify
> what cases of this that are supported, somewhere that the information
> is readily available for the information of non-implementers.
> </orcnote>
>
More specifically, I was under the impression that you could include a
binary blob of say a doc file.
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
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RE: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
<orcnote> below.
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak [mailto:andrew@pitonyak.org]
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 06:18
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
On 10/24/2014 01:54 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not
> ISO-standard. If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the
> standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses
> - not a question of software development.
I am not overly informed on this, but, I think that the primary
complaint was that the OOXML ISO standard supports storing proprietary
binary blobs that are not part of the standard as aprt of the document.
<orcnote>
This was and is a red herring. The ODF specification is just as
permissive in this regard. For example, there is no specification
on the binary formats of images that are incorporated in ODF packages
by our favorite ODF-supporting software. Also, the allowance of OLE
objects opens a very wide door in ODF that is exploited by the
prominent implementations.
What would be more interesting is to see what either specification
says about how such material is identified so implementations can
determine what is present.
It would also be interesting to know how well implementations identify
what cases of this that are supported, somewhere that the information
is readily available for the information of non-implementers.
</orcnote>
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
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Re: OpenOffice lost again 6000 users (was: Improved OOXML support?)
Posted by Andrew Douglas Pitonyak <an...@pitonyak.org>.
On 10/24/2014 01:54 AM, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> But where is the problem? Either OOXML *is* ISO standard or is not
> ISO-standard. If the problem is however that MS is 'meddling' in the
> standard, then it is a political issue that requires policy responses
> - not a question of software development.
I am not overly informed on this, but, I think that the primary
complaint was that the OOXML ISO standard supports storing proprietary
binary blobs that are not part of the standard as aprt of the document.
--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php
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