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Posted to general@gump.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 2004/01/30 14:58:13 UTC
[proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
First of all, let me say that I'm *very* impressed by the work done on
Python Gump. It's *sweet*! I think it's about time that we switch away
from the old shell+xslt version that is much harder to maintain and
adapt.
Second, I have root access on moof.apache.org and would love to help
setup a pygump installation there, making the official apache one and
finally retiring the one on nagoya which was slow as hell.
Moreover, it always bothered me that gump was under the supervision of
the jakarta PMC while it is a much more general purpose project, but
Sam and I agreed that until Gump had its own community, a top level
domain would have been a bad idea.
I think that Gump does have enough traction for becoming top level.
So, here is my proposal:
1) install pygump on moof.apache.org
[macosx box located at apple, not huge but should be enough since it's
currently doing nothing.. note that we are waiting for new shiny boxes
that are coming from IBM, so if our needs grow, we will have plenty of
room to grow without effecting the ASF infrastructure (one of those
boxes was conceived for gump explicitly)]
2) initiate the burocratic process to get Gump as a Top Level Domain
[I volunteer to help that process]
What do you think?
--
Stefano.
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Ok, I'll leave this particular subject to you folks. I have no position
on the subject.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> Mark R. Diggory wrote:
> ...
>
>> So my question is: would gump.apache.org be where the continuous build
>> process got dumped out to or would it be where the gump project
>> website resided.
>
>
> The website and mailing lists, as this discussion is about Project Gump;
> currently it's Project Jakarta Gump.
>
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Mark R. Diggory wrote:
...
> So my question is: would gump.apache.org be where the continuous build
> process got dumped out to or would it be where the gump project website
> resided.
The website and mailing lists, as this discussion is about Project Gump;
currently it's Project Jakarta Gump.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Well, to loop back into other discussions related to this.
1.) there is the interest by the repository folks to setup
"repo.apache.org", with the repository directory structure they've
outlined. Maven users are also interested in seeing this usable as a
compatable maven repository.
2.) We would like to see a uniform location for developer nightly builds
for apache projects using Maven, directory structure is very important
in this case though. Automation via gump would also be of the highest
benefit.
So my question is: would gump.apache.org be where the continuous build
process got dumped out to or would it be where the gump project website
resided.
if its for the continuous build contents, what are thoughts about
something generic like
builds.apache.org or nightly.apache.org
distributions.apache.org
-Mark
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> First of all, let me say that I'm *very* impressed by the work done on
> Python Gump. It's *sweet*! I think it's about time that we switch away
> from the old shell+xslt version that is much harder to maintain and adapt.
>
> Second, I have root access on moof.apache.org and would love to help
> setup a pygump installation there, making the official apache one and
> finally retiring the one on nagoya which was slow as hell.
>
> Moreover, it always bothered me that gump was under the supervision of
> the jakarta PMC while it is a much more general purpose project, but Sam
> and I agreed that until Gump had its own community, a top level domain
> would have been a bad idea.
>
> I think that Gump does have enough traction for becoming top level.
>
> So, here is my proposal:
>
> 1) install pygump on moof.apache.org
>
> [macosx box located at apple, not huge but should be enough since it's
> currently doing nothing.. note that we are waiting for new shiny boxes
> that are coming from IBM, so if our needs grow, we will have plenty of
> room to grow without effecting the ASF infrastructure (one of those
> boxes was conceived for gump explicitly)]
>
> 2) initiate the burocratic process to get Gump as a Top Level Domain
>
> [I volunteer to help that process]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
>>I understood what gump is. and its use has an important place, I just
>>though there was a possibility for combining the processes of nightly
>>build and integration test.
>
>
> Don't take that personally, I think folks could see you understood & were
> trying to extend. Gump ought be open to such extensions, although
> (primarily) remain true to is philosophy.
>
> regards,
>
> Adam
>
I'm mellow. Nothing personal. thanx
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> I understood what gump is. and its use has an important place, I just
> though there was a possibility for combining the processes of nightly
> build and integration test.
Don't take that personally, I think folks could see you understood & were
trying to extend. Gump ought be open to such extensions, although
(primarily) remain true to is philosophy.
regards,
Adam
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Mark R. Diggory" <md...@latte.harvard.edu>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> On 30 Jan 2004, at 09:04, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
>
>> But do you really think that three or four people make up a community
>> big enough to warrant a TLP?
>
>
> Yes, in this particular case I do and I think this is mostly a
> chicken/egg problem.
>
> Gump, IMO, fails to attract the attention it deserves mostly for two
> reasons:
>
> 1) it "so looks" like a nightly build system that when people find out
> it's not, they think it's screwed and don't bother go forward
>
> [you probably wouldn't believe how many people don't really know what
> gump is for and believe it's a nighthly build too that simply doesn't
> work because it misses the real dependencies so it fakes them using the
> HEAD of CVS]
>
> D'oh!
I understood what gump is. and its use has an important place, I just
though there was a possibility for combining the processes of nightly
build and integration test.
>
> 2) it's trapped in jakarta and jakarta is notoriously misfunctional in
> allowing its internal projects to create their own cultural identity
>
Jakarta is what you make of it, in my opinion, its a foundry, eventually
a project may outgrow jakarta as a foundry. If your project is ready to
go out on its own to get more exposure/identity, go for it.
> 3) more visibility helps the process of building a larger community [in
> this regard, I think gump should have it's own site skin and not using
> the default forrest one]
>
> --
> Stefano.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: gump-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: gump-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
--
Mark Diggory
Software Developer
Harvard MIT Data Center
http://www.hmdc.harvard.edu
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 30 Jan 2004, at 12:04, Adam R. B. Jack wrote:
>> Gump, IMO, fails to attract the attention it deserves mostly for two
>> reasons:
>
> We get to pick any two from the following three? ;-) ;-)
D'oh! I can't even count anymore :-)
> I pick 1 and 3 (since I know little of 2.)
>
> Here is my +1 for a Gump TLP.
--
Stefano.
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> Gump, IMO, fails to attract the attention it deserves mostly for two
> reasons:
We get to pick any two from the following three? ;-) ;-)
I pick 1 and 3 (since I know little of 2.)
Here is my +1 for a Gump TLP.
regards,
Adam
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 30 Jan 2004, at 09:04, Stefan Bodewig wrote:
> But do you really think that three or four people make up a community
> big enough to warrant a TLP?
Yes, in this particular case I do and I think this is mostly a
chicken/egg problem.
Gump, IMO, fails to attract the attention it deserves mostly for two
reasons:
1) it "so looks" like a nightly build system that when people find out
it's not, they think it's screwed and don't bother go forward
[you probably wouldn't believe how many people don't really know what
gump is for and believe it's a nighthly build too that simply doesn't
work because it misses the real dependencies so it fakes them using the
HEAD of CVS]
D'oh!
2) it's trapped in jakarta and jakarta is notoriously misfunctional in
allowing its internal projects to create their own cultural identity
3) more visibility helps the process of building a larger community
[in this regard, I think gump should have it's own site skin and not
using the default forrest one]
--
Stefano.
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org> wrote:
> But do you really think that three or four people make up a
> community big enough to warrant a TLP?
Just to clarify that. I won't stand in the way of such a move, I just
think it's premature.
Stefan
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Stefan Bodewig <bo...@apache.org>.
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> 1) install pygump on moof.apache.org
+1, the more the merrier
> 2) initiate the burocratic process to get Gump as a Top Level
> Domain
It isn't *that* beurocratic at all.
But do you really think that three or four people make up a community
big enough to warrant a TLP?
Stefan
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Martin Cooper <ma...@apache.org>.
+1 to Gump as a TLP - especially if Gumpy, written in Python and not Java,
is going to be the basis going forward. ;-)
--
Martin Cooper
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> First of all, let me say that I'm *very* impressed by the work done on
> Python Gump. It's *sweet*! I think it's about time that we switch away
> from the old shell+xslt version that is much harder to maintain and
> adapt.
>
> Second, I have root access on moof.apache.org and would love to help
> setup a pygump installation there, making the official apache one and
> finally retiring the one on nagoya which was slow as hell.
>
> Moreover, it always bothered me that gump was under the supervision of
> the jakarta PMC while it is a much more general purpose project, but
> Sam and I agreed that until Gump had its own community, a top level
> domain would have been a bad idea.
>
> I think that Gump does have enough traction for becoming top level.
>
> So, here is my proposal:
>
> 1) install pygump on moof.apache.org
>
> [macosx box located at apple, not huge but should be enough since it's
> currently doing nothing.. note that we are waiting for new shiny boxes
> that are coming from IBM, so if our needs grow, we will have plenty of
> room to grow without effecting the ASF infrastructure (one of those
> boxes was conceived for gump explicitly)]
>
> 2) initiate the burocratic process to get Gump as a Top Level Domain
>
> [I volunteer to help that process]
>
> What do you think?
>
> --
> Stefano.
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by Scott Sanders <sc...@dotnot.org>.
>> 2) initiate the burocratic process to get Gump as a Top Level Domain
>>
>> [I volunteer to help that process]
>>
>> What do you think?
>
> I'm no expert on what makes a TLP, and can see why Stefan doesn't see
> a need
> for a small community of active users, but maybe Gump is bigger than we
> think. Developing Gump (code) is one thing, acting as an admin
> (maintaining
> servers/metadata) is another, but the true Gump community are those
> folk --
> plus all those who maintain their own metadata, and/or react to the
> results/nags/feeds, and read/reference the output pages. [BTW: A
> satisfied
> smile came to my face to see Antoine recently reference a 'Full Project
> Dependees' section I'd added only a little while before. That is
> exactly
> what Gump ought communicate for us.] In short, I think we are a larger
> community than the gump mailinglist archives might show.
>
Gump is one of the first 'communities' in apache-land where most of
the contribution exists outside of the CVS tree.
+1 to gump.apache.org
Scott
Re: [proposal] Is it time for gump.apache.org?
Posted by "Adam R. B. Jack" <aj...@trysybase.com>.
> 1) install pygump on moof.apache.org
I'd love to see/support this.
> 2) initiate the burocratic process to get Gump as a Top Level Domain
>
> [I volunteer to help that process]
>
> What do you think?
I'm no expert on what makes a TLP, and can see why Stefan doesn't see a need
for a small community of active users, but maybe Gump is bigger than we
think. Developing Gump (code) is one thing, acting as an admin (maintaining
servers/metadata) is another, but the true Gump community are those folk --
plus all those who maintain their own metadata, and/or react to the
results/nags/feeds, and read/reference the output pages. [BTW: A satisfied
smile came to my face to see Antoine recently reference a 'Full Project
Dependees' section I'd added only a little while before. That is exactly
what Gump ought communicate for us.] In short, I think we are a larger
community than the gump mailinglist archives might show.
I'd love to see Gump 'open up' to more uses (e.g. work with forrestbot, work
with non build scripts) and maybe it needs to be reborn in order for folks
to see that potential/opening. I don't know if being in Jakarta has limited
it, but it might've. I think Gump is a social experiment of interconnecting
metadata about projects/communities, and I'd love it to explore/reach that
potential. I guess none of this needs to be a TLP, but then again, maybe it
does. I'll let wiser folks than I figure that out.
I really want gump.apache.org -- for an official presence (if only to send
relayed nag e-mails from the inside & host an interactive WWW interface) --
but I sure hope that doesn't limit the distributed network of gump servers
contributed by the community. There is value in that also.
regards,
Adam