Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>]

... it's got a lot of good and important fixes in it.  Filip, you up
for cutting the release, say this weekend or early next week?

Yoav

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>]

William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 17:09 +0100, Remy Maucherat wrote:
>   
>> Mladen Turk wrote:
>>     
>>> Anyhow, a thing like Remy is doing for 6.0 would be nice to have.
>>> It offers a build before official tag
>>>       
> Tagged sources are best here :) Tagged build does nothing for us, since
> we build from source. So if the builds are a pain, maybe just tagging
> sources is an option.
>
> But IMHO, I am more interested in seeing a 6.0.x release than 5.5.21 :)
> 5.5.21, could be a eternal beta like 5.0.30 for those sticking to that
> version.
>
> FYI, we have 6.0.7 beta, and 6.0.8 alpha packages available on Gentoo
> ~arch, unstable. Many are already switching to that, and I encourage it.
> I have run 6.0.x on my development server since 6.0.2. I will likely use
> on my production systems once there is an official release, non
> beta/alpha.
>
> Just tossing in my 2 cents.
>   
For those of us needing the most stable Tomcat possible today and with 
downstream consumers who can't stand "beta" labels, 5.5.21 would really 
be helpful.

I'm quite interested in 6.0.x, but in the first "stable" release...

--
Jess Holle

Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Quartz <qu...@yahoo.com>]

> But IMHO, I am more interested in seeing a 6.0.x release than 5.5.21 :)
> 5.5.21, could be a eternal beta like 5.0.30 for those sticking to that
> version.

Hi,

May the user base have pity on you...

Since 5.0.27 until 5.5.9 versions, tomcat had the classloader thread safety show stopper #33743. 
since 5.5.10, tomcat versions have another regression (#41017 : cannot clear a header through
httpresponse.setHeader(name, null)), which is only fixed in 5.5.21.

I may be a rare case, but given that combination above and the many other fixes in 5.5.21, trust
that it is likely to be very welcomed and may cause many users to finally move to 5.5, and
possibly  go on with less insecurities about 6.0. I know I am stuck with 5.0.30 because my boss
has had it with wasted time for doing tomcat workarounds. This is just my own example of
overlapping bugs making it difficult to migrate.

Thanks for your comprehension.



 
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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

["William L. Thomson Jr." <wl...@gentoo.org>]

On Fri, 2007-02-02 at 17:09 +0100, Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Mladen Turk wrote:
> > Anyhow, a thing like Remy is doing for 6.0 would be nice to have.
> > It offers a build before official tag

Tagged sources are best here :) Tagged build does nothing for us, since
we build from source. So if the builds are a pain, maybe just tagging
sources is an option.

But IMHO, I am more interested in seeing a 6.0.x release than 5.5.21 :)
5.5.21, could be a eternal beta like 5.0.30 for those sticking to that
version.

FYI, we have 6.0.7 beta, and 6.0.8 alpha packages available on Gentoo
~arch, unstable. Many are already switching to that, and I encourage it.
I have run 6.0.x on my development server since 6.0.2. I will likely use
on my production systems once there is an official release, non
beta/alpha.

Just tossing in my 2 cents.

-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.
Gentoo/Java

Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

Yoav Shapira wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2/2/07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Yoav Shapira wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > On 2/2/07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we
>> >
>> > Umm, why is a -1 not valid for a release?
>>
>> Standard Apache procedure as per
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
> 
> Yeah ;)  I said -1 is not a veto.

Sorry, I missed the distinction.

> But it's still a valid vote to
> register a strong objection to something in the release.  It's a vote
> I would hope causes further discussion and doesn't get ignored.

Absolutely, but unless it is some problem with the build that the RM
misses (possible, but unlikely) then I would expect the objection to
come on commit rather than waiting for the release.

Mark

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On 2/2/07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Yoav Shapira wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 2/2/07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we
> >
> > Umm, why is a -1 not valid for a release?
>
> Standard Apache procedure as per
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

Yeah ;)  I said -1 is not a veto.  But it's still a valid vote to
register a strong objection to something in the release.  It's a vote
I would hope causes further discussion and doesn't get ignored.

Yoav

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

Yoav Shapira wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 2/2/07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we
> 
> Umm, why is a -1 not valid for a release?

Standard Apache procedure as per
http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

Mark

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Yoav Shapira <yo...@apache.org>]

Hi,

On 2/2/07, Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org> wrote:
> Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we

Umm, why is a -1 not valid for a release?  It can be overridden with a
majority of and at least 3 +1 votes, but it's valid.  It's also why
the vote cannot be concluded in hours, but must run for a reasonable
amount of time to give those with binding votes a chance to voice
their mind.  Usually we use ~72 hours as "reasonable."  Otherwise you
could theoretically be done with a vote in seconds, not hours: just
the time it takes for 3 +1 emails.

Yoav

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> 
> Small misunderstanding to clear up here;

Mea culpa - glad this was clarified earlier, gotta catch up on
archives from most-recent first I see :)

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

["William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>]

Mark Thomas wrote:
> 
> Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we
> have 3 +1's from the PMC we can release. 

Small misunderstanding to clear up here;

  -1 is a legitimate vote

  There must be 3 more +1's than -1's (and at least 3 +1's as you say)

  A -1 is NOT a veto for releasing a tarball, which is probably what
  you ment to say, or where your confusion came from.

Yours,

Bill

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

Mark Thomas wrote:
> Remy Maucherat wrote:
>> I am ok with changing the release process if something simpler is
>> possible. I am interested in speeding up the process by cutting back on
>> the number of votes.
>>
>> The process would be:
>> 1. create tarball and unofficial binaries, put them on
>> people.apache.org/~remm/tomcat-6
>> 2. wait 4-5 days
>> 3. call for alpha/beta/stable vote on build
>> 4. 3 +1's later publish previously created tarball and binaries to
>> www.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-6
>> 5. announce release after sync of the website
> 
> Following up on Yoav's point, allowing 72 hours at step 4 would
> lengthen the overall time but the time at step 2 could be reduced to
> compensate and keep the end to end time the same.

Ok, I think I can propose a vote for this new release process.

Rémy

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> I am ok with changing the release process if something simpler is
> possible. I am interested in speeding up the process by cutting back on
> the number of votes.
> 
> The process would be:
> 1. create tarball and unofficial binaries, put them on
> people.apache.org/~remm/tomcat-6
> 2. wait 4-5 days
> 3. call for alpha/beta/stable vote on build
> 4. 3 +1's later publish previously created tarball and binaries to
> www.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-6
> 5. announce release after sync of the website

Following up on Yoav's point, allowing 72 hours at step 4 would
lengthen the overall time but the time at step 2 could be reduced to
compensate and keep the end to end time the same.

Mark

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>]

On Feb 3, 2007, at 2:38 PM, Ted Husted wrote:

> Or,
>
> 1. create tarball and unofficial binaries, put them on
> people.apache.org/~remm/tomcat-6
> 2. call for alpha/beta/stable vote on build
> 3. wait 72 hours
> 4. if 3 +1's and more +1s than -1s, publish previously created tarball
> and binaries to www.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-6, else wait longer
> 5. announce release after sync of the website
>
> Of course, if a PMC member needed more time at 3, the RM could just
> leave the vote open longer.
>

+1

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Or,

1. create tarball and unofficial binaries, put them on
people.apache.org/~remm/tomcat-6
2. call for alpha/beta/stable vote on build
3. wait 72 hours
4. if 3 +1's and more +1s than -1s, publish previously created tarball
and binaries to www.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-6, else wait longer
5. announce release after sync of the website

Of course, if a PMC member needed more time at 3, the RM could just
leave the vote open longer.

-Ted.


On 2/2/07, Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org> wrote:
> I am ok with changing the release process if something simpler is
> possible. I am interested in speeding up the process by cutting back on
> the number of votes.
>
> The process would be:
> 1. create tarball and unofficial binaries, put them on
> people.apache.org/~remm/tomcat-6
> 2. wait 4-5 days
> 3. call for alpha/beta/stable vote on build
> 4. 3 +1's later publish previously created tarball and binaries to
> www.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-6
> 5. announce release after sync of the website
>
> Rémy

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

Mark Thomas wrote:
> The bit that has to be done (ie is mandated by Apache rules) is a vote
> by the PMC (three +1's required) to release a tarball.
> 
> Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we
> have 3 +1's from the PMC we can release. This means the release
> process can be:
> 
> 1. RM creates tarball, puts it on people.a.o or tomcat.a.o/dev/dist
> 2. RM creates binaries but keeps them private for now
> 3. RM calls for alpha/beta/stable vote on tarball
> 4. 3 +1's later RM publishes previously created tarball and binaries
> 5. RM waits for mirrors to sync and then announces release
> 6. Some period later we have a stability vote if the release was alpha
> or beta
> 
> Given that the RM can vote at stage 4, only two other PMC +1's are
> needed to release. There are usually enough PMC members around that
> this vote could be concluded in hours.
> 
> Based on the above, I don't see why we couldn't turn around a release
> in a single day.

I am ok with changing the release process if something simpler is 
possible. I am interested in speeding up the process by cutting back on 
the number of votes.

The process would be:
1. create tarball and unofficial binaries, put them on 
people.apache.org/~remm/tomcat-6
2. wait 4-5 days
3. call for alpha/beta/stable vote on build
4. 3 +1's later publish previously created tarball and binaries to 
www.apache.org/dist/tomcat/tomcat-6
5. announce release after sync of the website

Rémy

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>]

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Mladen Turk wrote:
>> If you think its a PITA, don't do it.
> 
> Apparently, it has to be done that way. I think it's a PITA because it
> does take a lot of time (every vote needs a few days, etc).

The bit that has to be done (ie is mandated by Apache rules) is a vote
by the PMC (three +1's required) to release a tarball.

Given that a -1 vote is not valid for a release vote, as soon as we
have 3 +1's from the PMC we can release. This means the release
process can be:

1. RM creates tarball, puts it on people.a.o or tomcat.a.o/dev/dist
2. RM creates binaries but keeps them private for now
3. RM calls for alpha/beta/stable vote on tarball
4. 3 +1's later RM publishes previously created tarball and binaries
5. RM waits for mirrors to sync and then announces release
6. Some period later we have a stability vote if the release was alpha
or beta

Given that the RM can vote at stage 4, only two other PMC +1's are
needed to release. There are usually enough PMC members around that
this vote could be concluded in hours.

Based on the above, I don't see why we couldn't turn around a release
in a single day.

Mark

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

Mladen Turk wrote:
> If you think its a PITA, don't do it.

Apparently, it has to be done that way. I think it's a PITA because it 
does take a lot of time (every vote needs a few days, etc).

Rémy


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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>]

Remy Maucherat wrote:
> Mladen Turk wrote:
>> Anyhow, a thing like Remy is doing for 6.0 would be nice to have.
>> It offers a build before official tag
> 
> Yes, and it is useless, and it makes the release procedure days longer. 
> Thanks to this nonsense the release procedure now takes over two weeks.
> 

If you think its a PITA, don't do it.

 > Unfortunately, it seems I have to do it (at least that's what one
 > committer who apparently likes seeing people waste their time claimed).
 >


??? Can you tell us who that person is?

Regards,
Mladen.

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Remy Maucherat <re...@apache.org>]

Mladen Turk wrote:
> Anyhow, a thing like Remy is doing for 6.0 would be nice to have.
> It offers a build before official tag

Yes, and it is useless, and it makes the release procedure days longer. 
Thanks to this nonsense the release procedure now takes over two weeks.

Unfortunately, it seems I have to do it (at least that's what one 
committer who apparently likes seeing people waste their time claimed).

Rémy

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>]

Filip Hanik - Dev Lists wrote:
> yes, early next week, i'll email when I have a target time for the tag
> 

Anyhow, a thing like Remy is doing for 6.0 would be nice to have.
It offers a build before official tag

Can we have that for 5.5.12 as well?
The RM can put 'what will be released' in his private
people.apache.org so we can test without going trough
the entire SVN build procedure.

Regards,
Mladen.

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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Filip Hanik - Dev Lists <de...@hanik.com>]

yes, early next week, i'll email when I have a target time for the tag

Mladen Turk wrote:
> Yoav Shapira wrote:
>> ... it's got a lot of good and important fixes in it.  Filip, you up
>> for cutting the release, say this weekend or early next week?
>>
>
> ++1
>
> -- 
> Mladen
>
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>
>
>


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Re: Let's get 5.5.21 out the door...

[Mladen Turk <mt...@apache.org>]

Yoav Shapira wrote:
> ... it's got a lot of good and important fixes in it.  Filip, you up
> for cutting the release, say this weekend or early next week?
> 

++1

--
Mladen

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