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Posted to users@spamassassin.apache.org by Robert Moskowitz <rg...@htt-consult.com> on 2011/03/09 05:49:01 UTC

Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

I have a friend that puts out a 'barter' list.  He acts as a 
clearinghouse for some equipment wholesalers.

He has been fighting getting tagged as spamming for some time and 
finally came to me for help.  I had helped some, but finally told him to 
add me to his distribution (he uses BCC lists; he has ~2000 
wholesalers).  I have spamassassin running with postfix and pretty much 
a default setup, and of course his notes got tagged as spam.  Below is 
what I pulled out of the headers.  Were do I go to learn what these mean 
and what he can do to 'clean up' his messages?

Oh, and I am looking at setting up a mailman server for him as an 
announce list.

Yes, score=10.206 tagged_above=2 required=4    tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, 
EXCUSE_REMOVE=3.299, FILL_THIS_FORM=0.001,    FILL_THIS_FORM_LONG=3.404, 
HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001,    MANY_SPAN_IN_TEXT=2.7, 
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no

Yes, score=8.856 tagged_above=2 required=4 tests=[AWL=1.350,    
BAYES_50=0.8, EXCUSE_REMOVE=3.299, FILL_THIS_FORM=0.001,    
FILL_THIS_FORM_LONG=3.404, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001,    
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=no




Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Michael Scheidell <mi...@secnap.com>.
On 3/9/11 6:50 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> On 03/09/2011 06:33 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Wed, 2011-03-09 at 17:33 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> It is almost better to build the html and have OE send it than to 
>>> let OE
>>> do its own HTML building.
>>>
>> I couldn't agree more - provided he uses something that generates valid
>> HTML, which doesn't mean MS Office.
>>
>> I agree that sending plain text would be best though he could also try
>> Open Office (a small test file with assorted formatting in it was
>> perfect) or rendering the newsletter as PDF.
>
> His clientele are all older purchasing people at small companies, 
> lacking generally in computer skills.  Opening up a pdf would be a 
> non-starter for some of them.  That is partly why he has not converted 
> to a web site.
>
> Open Office might be worth it for him.  It is what I use most of the 
> time....
>
>
consider using a third party service, some are free, or reasonably priced.

if you want to pay extra, you can get one that is 'certified'. (you pay 
for that)

for freeish/ and a pretty good reputation for canceling clients who are 
not confirmed opt-in...  mailchimp.

reason I say that, is that they are the only ESP I have dealt with that 
will respond back to a complaint, then respond back that they have 
banned the client for spamming.. others, even 'certified' ones, send 
back an auto ignore mail, saying they will look into it and get back to 
me, but never do.

so, mailchimp: not certified, but not blacklisted either.

If I didn't run my one listserver, I would use theirs.
-- 
Michael Scheidell, CTO
o: 561-999-5000
d: 561-948-2259
ISN: 1259*1300
 >*| *SECNAP Network Security Corporation

    * Best Intrusion Prevention Product, Networks Product Guide
    * Certified SNORT Integrator
    * Hot Company Award, World Executive Alliance
    * Best in Email Security, 2010 Network Products Guide
    * King of Spam Filters, SC Magazine

______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned and certified safe by SpammerTrap(r). 
For Information please see http://www.secnap.com/products/spammertrap/
______________________________________________________________________  

Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Robert Moskowitz <rg...@htt-consult.com>.
On 03/09/2011 06:33 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-03-09 at 17:33 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> It is almost better to build the html and have OE send it than to let OE
>> do its own HTML building.
>>
> I couldn't agree more - provided he uses something that generates valid
> HTML, which doesn't mean MS Office.
>
> I agree that sending plain text would be best though he could also try
> Open Office (a small test file with assorted formatting in it was
> perfect) or rendering the newsletter as PDF.

His clientele are all older purchasing people at small companies, 
lacking generally in computer skills.  Opening up a pdf would be a 
non-starter for some of them.  That is partly why he has not converted 
to a web site.

Open Office might be worth it for him.  It is what I use most of the 
time....



Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Martin Gregorie <ma...@gregorie.org>.
On Wed, 2011-03-09 at 17:33 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> It is almost better to build the html and have OE send it than to let OE 
> do its own HTML building.
> 
I couldn't agree more - provided he uses something that generates valid
HTML, which doesn't mean MS Office.

I agree that sending plain text would be best though he could also try
Open Office (a small test file with assorted formatting in it was
perfect) or rendering the newsletter as PDF.


Martin




Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Robert Moskowitz <rg...@htt-consult.com>.
On 03/09/2011 05:22 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-03-09 at 16:45 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> His content is strictly text, coming from Outlook Express.  So the
>> culprit might be OE putting the text into an HTML mime part.
>>
> Historically, any HTML generated by any MS program has been terrible,
> what with proprietary attributes and tag sequences that violate nesting
> rules (such as<p><ul>....</p></ul>  when character formatting regions
> should be entirely within a paragraph, e.g.<p><ul>....</ul></p>).
>
> Snipping the HTML part out of one of his messages and running it through
> HTML-tidy would be a worth-while exercise. So would fixing errors found
> by HTML-tidy in situ in the HTML part of the message and running the
> corrected message through SA to see how that affects the score.

Better would be to turn off HTML in OE, or use a better emailer  :)

I am working on this little pointer with him.

It is almost better to build the html and have OE send it than to let OE 
do its own HTML building.



Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Martin Gregorie <ma...@gregorie.org>.
On Wed, 2011-03-09 at 16:45 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> His content is strictly text, coming from Outlook Express.  So the 
> culprit might be OE putting the text into an HTML mime part.
> 
Historically, any HTML generated by any MS program has been terrible,
what with proprietary attributes and tag sequences that violate nesting
rules (such as <p><ul>....</p></ul> when character formatting regions
should be entirely within a paragraph, e.g. <p><ul>....</ul></p>).

Snipping the HTML part out of one of his messages and running it through
HTML-tidy would be a worth-while exercise. So would fixing errors found
by HTML-tidy in situ in the HTML part of the message and running the
corrected message through SA to see how that affects the score.


Martin



Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Robert Moskowitz <rg...@htt-consult.com>.
On 03/09/2011 01:12 AM, John Hardin wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>> I have a friend that puts out a 'barter' list.  He acts as a 
>> clearinghouse for some equipment wholesalers.
>>
>> He has been fighting getting tagged as spamming for some time and 
>> finally came to me for help.
>>
>> Oh, and I am looking at setting up a mailman server for him as an 
>> announce list.
>
> That, on a static IP, will be very good approach.
>
>> EXCUSE_REMOVE=3.299
>
> Once he's on the listserv, use "unsubscribe" rather than "removed from 
> mailings".

It seems he should be able to reword it right now, while I work on 
setting up his domain on my mailman server.

>
>> FILL_THIS_FORM=0.001,    FILL_THIS_FORM_LONG=3.404,
>
> Can he avoid having a fill-in-your-personal-details form in the email 
> body?

I really don't think he has such.  Something else in the emails is 
triggering this?

>
>> MANY_SPAN_IN_TEXT=2.7,
>
> Tell him to clean up his HTML.

His content is strictly text, coming from Outlook Express.  So the 
culprit might be OE putting the text into an HTML mime part.

>
>> LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001
>
> I take it the equipment is expensive?

Yes.  No way around that.

>
> If you'd like, he can put me on his bcc: list too for a while. I'll be 
> able to see samples and maybe tune the rules a bit, and I'll also be 
> able to add them to the masscheck ham corpus if justified. Just let me 
> know his email address and the name of the newsletter and such so that 
> I can look out for them.

Look for private note.



Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org>.
On Wed, 9 Mar 2011, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

> On 03/09/2011 01:12 AM, John Hardin wrote:
>>  On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>> 
>> >  MANY_SPAN_IN_TEXT=2.7,
>>
>>  Tell him to clean up his HTML.
>
> Actually, I am telling him to turn off sending HTML.

...even better. :)

-- 
  John Hardin KA7OHZ                    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
  jhardin@impsec.org    FALaholic #11174     pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
  key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C  AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Failure to plan ahead on someone else's part does not constitute
   an emergency on my part.                 -- David W. Barts in a.s.r
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  4 days until Daylight Saving Time begins in U.S. - Spring Forward

Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by Robert Moskowitz <rg...@htt-consult.com>.
On 03/09/2011 01:12 AM, John Hardin wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>> I have a friend that puts out a 'barter' list.  He acts as a 
>> clearinghouse for some equipment wholesalers.
>>
>> He has been fighting getting tagged as spamming for some time and 
>> finally came to me for help.
>>
>> Oh, and I am looking at setting up a mailman server for him as an 
>> announce list.
>
> That, on a static IP, will be very good approach.
>
>> EXCUSE_REMOVE=3.299
>
> Once he's on the listserv, use "unsubscribe" rather than "removed from 
> mailings".
>
>> FILL_THIS_FORM=0.001,    FILL_THIS_FORM_LONG=3.404,
>
> Can he avoid having a fill-in-your-personal-details form in the email 
> body?
>
>> MANY_SPAN_IN_TEXT=2.7,
>
> Tell him to clean up his HTML.

Actually, I am telling him to turn off sending HTML.  His newsletter is 
strictly text and good old Outlook Express is sending it as BOTH text 
and HTML.

All the HTML is created by OE, thank you very much.   grrrr (from 
someone that spent time working on SMTP/MIME standards long ago).

>
>> LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001
>
> I take it the equipment is expensive?
>
> If you'd like, he can put me on his bcc: list too for a while. I'll be 
> able to see samples and maybe tune the rules a bit, and I'll also be 
> able to add them to the masscheck ham corpus if justified. Just let me 
> know his email address and the name of the newsletter and such so that 
> I can look out for them.
>

Re: Trying to help friend NOT get caught by spamassassin

Posted by John Hardin <jh...@impsec.org>.
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

> I have a friend that puts out a 'barter' list.  He acts as a clearinghouse 
> for some equipment wholesalers.
>
> He has been fighting getting tagged as spamming for some time and finally 
> came to me for help.
>
> Oh, and I am looking at setting up a mailman server for him as an 
> announce list.

That, on a static IP, will be very good approach.

> EXCUSE_REMOVE=3.299

Once he's on the listserv, use "unsubscribe" rather than "removed from 
mailings".

> FILL_THIS_FORM=0.001,    FILL_THIS_FORM_LONG=3.404,

Can he avoid having a fill-in-your-personal-details form in the email 
body?

> MANY_SPAN_IN_TEXT=2.7,

Tell him to clean up his HTML.

> LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001

I take it the equipment is expensive?

If you'd like, he can put me on his bcc: list too for a while. I'll be 
able to see samples and maybe tune the rules a bit, and I'll also be able 
to add them to the masscheck ham corpus if justified. Just let me know his 
email address and the name of the newsletter and such so that I can look 
out for them.

-- 
  John Hardin KA7OHZ                    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
  jhardin@impsec.org    FALaholic #11174     pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
  key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C  AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
   Failure to plan ahead on someone else's part does not constitute
   an emergency on my part.                 -- David W. Barts in a.s.r
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
  5 days until Daylight Saving Time begins in U.S. - Spring Forward