Re: [PR] fix: Align Russian GeoJSON borders with internationally recognized boundaries [superset]

["zverok (via GitHub)" <gi...@apache.org>]

zverok commented on PR #35613:
URL: https://github.com/apache/superset/pull/35613#issuecomment-6382312974

   @rusackas With all due respect to the complexity of the decision, and at a risc of parroting myself, I want to emphasize here: the problem is **not like any other problem with "contested" territories** to be "solved generically once".
   
   The problem is that the current state of the map **represents nobody's point of view**, and thus is harmful and misleading, not just "hard compromise". I'll try to make my point logically (God sees, it is hard for me, but I am trying to be constructive here).
   
   **From the Ukrainian point of view** (which, curiously, coincides with international law), Crimea is just part of Ukraine and not Russia. And it is not some "weird-status territory that was formally assigned to Ukraine recently by some chance/claimed formally", it was an integral part of the country for many decades.
   
   OK, let's assume you want to **provide the point of view of Russian law.** The argument usually goes that "what if some Completely Innocent And Very Kind Russian teacher/scientist wants to use our maps; we don't want that virtuous person to be persecuted for presenting what the Evil Authorities don't like, right? Right?" Even putting aside the questionability of the argument, from the point of view of the current **Russian laws**, not only Crimea is part of Russia, but also the entire Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson regions. Neither of those is fully controlled by Russia (and in the latter two, they don't control the regional capitals), but "the law is the law", right? In the imaginary situation with a "good teacher that wants to use this map", the map that marks Crimea as Russian, and the rest of the "New Territories" as Ukrainian would put them in trouble (oh no).
   
   Now, let's assume that to avoid the complexity of "whose laws we follow", we go with **the "situation on the ground"** solution. That was the original reasoning from the "Natural Earth" maintainers (the ones who initially authored these maps) in 2017, marking Crimea as Russian. But now, in 2026, if you want to faithfully represent the situation on the ground (i.e., mark as Russian territories where Russian laws are enforced and Russian authorities are present), you should use [this dataset](https://deepstatemap.live/en) (or its alternatives), and change it daily. For _some reason_, nobody (including NaturalEarth) dares to do that in "objective datasets", because "peaceful" Crimea occupation in 2014 is "different" from the violent siege of Mariupol in 2022. So nobody is really willing to even half-legitimize the latter... But they **were** willing to half-legitimize the former. Under the guise of "the situation on the ground" and "objective truth".
   
   So, the current situation (marking _only_ Crimea as Russia) represents exactly **nobody's** point of view. 
   
   _Or, we may say that it represents the personal hubris of one Mr. @nvkelso, who in 2017 decided that "cartographers know better." But even this is his 2017 point of view, as this wise person has kept away from the topic since 2022 (and no NaturalEarth releases have happened since then, too). It is almost as if something happened that year that showed exactly how shameful their point of view was, but nobody's willing to accept it._
   
   And that's why I think the map _should_ be amended, not "left for the future, when all of the 'contested territories' question would be solved by representing all the multitudes of opinions in this beautiful world."
   
   Sorry for a wall of text, I am trying to do my best to explain the complexity here.


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