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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID> on 2018/12/19 08:55:38 UTC
FYI: binding / non binding
Hi all,
In the VOTE threads, you might wonder what ‘binding’ and ‘non binding’
means.
Binding means the voter has status in that part of the vote. In the PPMC
vote thread for Apache NetBeans 10, which is currently running, everyone
who is a PPMC member / committer (i.e., you were on the initial list or
voted in explicitly after that) has a binding vote (whether you label it
binding or not)
So far, everyone who voted in the vc5 vote thread is a PPMC member /
committer and hence all current votes are binding for the PPMC vote thread.
When Laszlo puts the result thread together he’ll note all current votes as
binding (more may still be added until the voting period is over, at which
point there could be non binding votes too, i.e., anyone at all is able to
vote) for the PPMC vote.
If one of our mentors or another Apache member or IPMC member votes in the
vc5 PPMC thread, then Laszlo will list those in the IPMC vote thread as
already having voted and their vote being binding in the IPMC vote thread.
IPMC governs the Incubator which we are part of and which we’ll work on
graduating from once we finally release Apache NetBeans 10.
Thanks,
Gj
Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
That's for the correction Laszlo.
I thought I'd seen that before but then again there's a lot of Apache
documentation out there :)
Regards
John
On Wed 19 Dec 2018, 16:37 Geertjan Wielenga
<geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid wrote:
> Sure, makes sense, thanks for the correction.
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, Laszlo Kishalmi <
> laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I'm sorry for the correction, but:
> >
> > The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition of
> > new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to IPMC
> > members.
> >
> > The binding status of a person’s vote is not related to the mailing list
> > that the vote is occurring on.
> >
> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html#ppmc_and_binding_votes
> >
> > On 12/19/18 12:55 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> In the VOTE threads, you might wonder what ‘binding’ and ‘non binding’
> >> means.
> >>
> >> Binding means the voter has status in that part of the vote. In the PPMC
> >> vote thread for Apache NetBeans 10, which is currently running, everyone
> >> who is a PPMC member / committer (i.e., you were on the initial list or
> >> voted in explicitly after that) has a binding vote (whether you label it
> >> binding or not)
> >>
> >> So far, everyone who voted in the vc5 vote thread is a PPMC member /
> >> committer and hence all current votes are binding for the PPMC vote
> >> thread.
> >>
> >> When Laszlo puts the result thread together he’ll note all current votes
> >> as
> >> binding (more may still be added until the voting period is over, at
> which
> >> point there could be non binding votes too, i.e., anyone at all is able
> to
> >> vote) for the PPMC vote.
> >>
> >> If one of our mentors or another Apache member or IPMC member votes in
> the
> >> vc5 PPMC thread, then Laszlo will list those in the IPMC vote thread as
> >> already having voted and their vote being binding in the IPMC vote
> thread.
> >>
> >> IPMC governs the Incubator which we are part of and which we’ll work on
> >> graduating from once we finally release Apache NetBeans 10.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Gj
> >>
> >>
>
Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Sure, makes sense, thanks for the correction.
Gj
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I'm sorry for the correction, but:
>
> The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition of
> new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to IPMC
> members.
>
> The binding status of a person’s vote is not related to the mailing list
> that the vote is occurring on.
>
> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html#ppmc_and_binding_votes
>
> On 12/19/18 12:55 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> In the VOTE threads, you might wonder what ‘binding’ and ‘non binding’
>> means.
>>
>> Binding means the voter has status in that part of the vote. In the PPMC
>> vote thread for Apache NetBeans 10, which is currently running, everyone
>> who is a PPMC member / committer (i.e., you were on the initial list or
>> voted in explicitly after that) has a binding vote (whether you label it
>> binding or not)
>>
>> So far, everyone who voted in the vc5 vote thread is a PPMC member /
>> committer and hence all current votes are binding for the PPMC vote
>> thread.
>>
>> When Laszlo puts the result thread together he’ll note all current votes
>> as
>> binding (more may still be added until the voting period is over, at which
>> point there could be non binding votes too, i.e., anyone at all is able to
>> vote) for the PPMC vote.
>>
>> If one of our mentors or another Apache member or IPMC member votes in the
>> vc5 PPMC thread, then Laszlo will list those in the IPMC vote thread as
>> already having voted and their vote being binding in the IPMC vote thread.
>>
>> IPMC governs the Incubator which we are part of and which we’ll work on
>> graduating from once we finally release Apache NetBeans 10.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gj
>>
>>
Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 7:31 PM Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> ...since the first votes we've had we've used (binding)
> and (non-binding) to indicate votes from PPMC members and not. Non-PPMC
> members can also vote. As far as I understand it's also about acting like
> we're ready to graduate...
+1 with my incubation mentor hat on, it's acting like "a PMC in training".
> ...We obviously still need IPMC votes to actually release once the PPMC vote
> passes (or not)...
Yes, and considering there's few IPMC members on this list it's easy
to differentiate.
-Bertrand
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Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> We should consider PPMC votes binding for the *motion to release*, and
IPMC votes binding for the *vote to release*. The PPMC has to motion
(with 3x+1) the Incubator to release, so it's not as if the PPMC doesn't
have binding votes...it's just not for the release, but for the *motion
to release*...if that makes sense :)
It's basically a bicameral system.
--emi
http://coolbeans.xyz/ - CoolBeans: An IDE for Java, JavaEE, PHP and more!
On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 9:01 PM Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 12/19/18 7:54 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> > Yes, basically, this is exactly what I meant, but you said it much better
> > and with fewer and better words. :-)
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:13 Laszlo Kishalmi <laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition
> >>> of new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to
> >>> IPMC members.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes, that's true. But since the first votes we've had we've used (binding)
> >> and (non-binding) to indicate votes from PPMC members and not. Non-PPMC
> >> members can also vote. As far as I understand it's also about acting like
> >> we're ready to graduate.
>
> There's the key word :) Ideally, it would go like this:
>
> 1 - Podling votes to *motion the IPMC to release* (PPMC binding, all
> other non-binding), this is what we would consider a vote in a top level
> project, and would require 3x+1 from PPMC and more +1s than -1s (vetoes
> are not allowed)
>
> 2 - Actual release vote held on general@incubator (IPMC binding, all
> other non-binding), this is the Incubator singing off on the actions of
> the podling, and required 3x+1 from the IPMC and more +1s than -1s.
>
> Once graduated, step 2 is merely removed, as oversight is no longer
> deemed necessary.
>
> The tricky part is where IPMC votes on (1) carries over to (2), and PPMC
> votes (those that are not on the IPMC) does not. This is just a bit of
> slightly tricky housekeeping/math till you get the hang of it, to get
> the legalities in order.
>
> We should consider PPMC votes binding for the *motion to release*, and
> IPMC votes binding for the *vote to release*. The PPMC has to motion
> (with 3x+1) the Incubator to release, so it's not as if the PPMC doesn't
> have binding votes...it's just not for the release, but for the *motion
> to release*...if that makes sense :)
>
> >>
> >> We obviously still need IPMC votes to actually release once the PPMC vote
> >> passes (or not).
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >>
> >> Neil
> >>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
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>
> For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists
>
>
>
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Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 12/19/18 7:54 PM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Yes, basically, this is exactly what I meant, but you said it much better
> and with fewer and better words. :-)
>
> Gj
>
> On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:13 Laszlo Kishalmi <laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition
>>> of new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to
>>> IPMC members.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, that's true. But since the first votes we've had we've used (binding)
>> and (non-binding) to indicate votes from PPMC members and not. Non-PPMC
>> members can also vote. As far as I understand it's also about acting like
>> we're ready to graduate.
There's the key word :) Ideally, it would go like this:
1 - Podling votes to *motion the IPMC to release* (PPMC binding, all
other non-binding), this is what we would consider a vote in a top level
project, and would require 3x+1 from PPMC and more +1s than -1s (vetoes
are not allowed)
2 - Actual release vote held on general@incubator (IPMC binding, all
other non-binding), this is the Incubator singing off on the actions of
the podling, and required 3x+1 from the IPMC and more +1s than -1s.
Once graduated, step 2 is merely removed, as oversight is no longer
deemed necessary.
The tricky part is where IPMC votes on (1) carries over to (2), and PPMC
votes (those that are not on the IPMC) does not. This is just a bit of
slightly tricky housekeeping/math till you get the hang of it, to get
the legalities in order.
We should consider PPMC votes binding for the *motion to release*, and
IPMC votes binding for the *vote to release*. The PPMC has to motion
(with 3x+1) the Incubator to release, so it's not as if the PPMC doesn't
have binding votes...it's just not for the release, but for the *motion
to release*...if that makes sense :)
>>
>> We obviously still need IPMC votes to actually release once the PPMC vote
>> passes (or not).
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com.INVALID>.
Yes, basically, this is exactly what I meant, but you said it much better
and with fewer and better words. :-)
Gj
On Wednesday, December 19, 2018, Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:13 Laszlo Kishalmi <laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> > The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition
> > of new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to
> > IPMC members.
> >
>
> Yes, that's true. But since the first votes we've had we've used (binding)
> and (non-binding) to indicate votes from PPMC members and not. Non-PPMC
> members can also vote. As far as I understand it's also about acting like
> we're ready to graduate.
>
> We obviously still need IPMC votes to actually release once the PPMC vote
> passes (or not).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
> >
>
Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@apache.org>.
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018, 15:13 Laszlo Kishalmi <laszlo.kishalmi@gmail.com wrote:
> The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition
> of new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to
> IPMC members.
>
Yes, that's true. But since the first votes we've had we've used (binding)
and (non-binding) to indicate votes from PPMC members and not. Non-PPMC
members can also vote. As far as I understand it's also about acting like
we're ready to graduate.
We obviously still need IPMC votes to actually release once the PPMC vote
passes (or not).
Best wishes,
Neil
>
Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by Laszlo Kishalmi <la...@gmail.com>.
Dear all,
I'm sorry for the correction, but:
The only time when a PPMC member’s vote is binding is for the addition
of new PPMC members and committers. Release votes are only binding to
IPMC members.
The binding status of a person’s vote is not related to the mailing list
that the vote is occurring on.
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/ppmc.html#ppmc_and_binding_votes
On 12/19/18 12:55 AM, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> In the VOTE threads, you might wonder what ‘binding’ and ‘non binding’
> means.
>
> Binding means the voter has status in that part of the vote. In the PPMC
> vote thread for Apache NetBeans 10, which is currently running, everyone
> who is a PPMC member / committer (i.e., you were on the initial list or
> voted in explicitly after that) has a binding vote (whether you label it
> binding or not)
>
> So far, everyone who voted in the vc5 vote thread is a PPMC member /
> committer and hence all current votes are binding for the PPMC vote thread.
>
> When Laszlo puts the result thread together he’ll note all current votes as
> binding (more may still be added until the voting period is over, at which
> point there could be non binding votes too, i.e., anyone at all is able to
> vote) for the PPMC vote.
>
> If one of our mentors or another Apache member or IPMC member votes in the
> vc5 PPMC thread, then Laszlo will list those in the IPMC vote thread as
> already having voted and their vote being binding in the IPMC vote thread.
>
> IPMC governs the Incubator which we are part of and which we’ll work on
> graduating from once we finally release Apache NetBeans 10.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>
Re: FYI: binding / non binding
Posted by John McDonnell <mc...@gmail.com>.
My bad... I'd marked mine as non-binding as for some reason I had thought I
read somewhere that ppmc votes we're still non binding and only ipmc votes
we're binding for incubator vote threads.
I'll remember for next time.
John
On Wed 19 Dec 2018, 08:55 Geertjan Wielenga
<geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com.invalid wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> In the VOTE threads, you might wonder what ‘binding’ and ‘non binding’
> means.
>
> Binding means the voter has status in that part of the vote. In the PPMC
> vote thread for Apache NetBeans 10, which is currently running, everyone
> who is a PPMC member / committer (i.e., you were on the initial list or
> voted in explicitly after that) has a binding vote (whether you label it
> binding or not)
>
> So far, everyone who voted in the vc5 vote thread is a PPMC member /
> committer and hence all current votes are binding for the PPMC vote thread.
>
> When Laszlo puts the result thread together he’ll note all current votes as
> binding (more may still be added until the voting period is over, at which
> point there could be non binding votes too, i.e., anyone at all is able to
> vote) for the PPMC vote.
>
> If one of our mentors or another Apache member or IPMC member votes in the
> vc5 PPMC thread, then Laszlo will list those in the IPMC vote thread as
> already having voted and their vote being binding in the IPMC vote thread.
>
> IPMC governs the Incubator which we are part of and which we’ll work on
> graduating from once we finally release Apache NetBeans 10.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gj
>