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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> on 2015/07/21 01:36:48 UTC
[DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Hello Apache Incubator,
At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established consensus
and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
graduation to TLP.
Vote thread:
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
Summary of the vote results:
+1 (non-binding) = 14
1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
14. Milap Wadwa
We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
Below is our proposed resolution:
Thank you
Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
information between systems.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
Foundation; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
related to the automated and managed flow of information
between systems and be it further
RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
for management of the projects within the scope of
responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
Apache Ignite Project:
Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
and be it further
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
Project are hereafter discharged.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "Edward J. Yoon" <ed...@apache.org>.
+1
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan
<ds...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello Apache Incubator,
>
> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established consensus
> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> graduation to TLP.
>
> Vote thread:
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>
> Summary of the vote results:
> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>
> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> 14. Milap Wadwa
>
> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>
> Below is our proposed resolution:
>
> Thank you
> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>
> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> information between systems.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> between systems and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> for management of the projects within the scope of
> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Ignite Project:
>
> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> Project are hereafter discharged.
--
Best Regards, Edward J. Yoon
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Yet, the graduation of the projects like Apache Tez had happened with close to
100% PPMC employed by the same company. Shall IPMC first workout what
diversity means in numbers and then apply it to all podlings, instead of doing
this arbitrary?
And what that number should be? Would it need to be 47%? Why not 26% perhaps?
May be Pierre can share his thoughts on why 63% seems to be low. Perhaps he
would care to produce some statistical evidences that anything above 62%
doesn't work?
A project isn't controlled by a company but by its PMC. If PMC doesn't do its
job then the board@ has ways of interfere, and so far was doing just that very
effectively.
Cos
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:44PM, jan i wrote:
> On 21 July 2015 at 22:39, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >
> Reading other lists, it seems to me that board is very concerned about TLPs
> that are dominated by one company.
>
> We (ASF) want to ensure that a project is not controlled by a company, and
> also that the project can survive if
> the company decides to do something else. That is diversity to me, and I
> hope to many others.
>
> It might not be a bar for leaving the incubator, but I sure hope it is a
> bar for getting a board approval.
> (and actually I thought it was a concern for incubator too).
>
>
> rgds
> jan i.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 21 July 2015 at 22:39, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>
Reading other lists, it seems to me that board is very concerned about TLPs
that are dominated by one company.
We (ASF) want to ensure that a project is not controlled by a company, and
also that the project can survive if
the company decides to do something else. That is diversity to me, and I
hope to many others.
It might not be a bar for leaving the incubator, but I sure hope it is a
bar for getting a board approval.
(and actually I thought it was a concern for incubator too).
rgds
jan i.
Re: [DISCUSS] Diversity policy (WAS: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite
from the Apache Incubator)
Posted by Chris Douglas <cd...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> If by this you mean the Incubator has taught the podling what it needs
> to know, and the podling is following the best practices of the Apache
> Way, then we are in full agreement. I don't see the need to single me
> out here, I am not disagreeing with that.
Please don't feel singled out. The response was addressed to you
because you had raised the question.
> There was a discussion 3 years ago about this, but it did not result in
> a change in our published policy. The policy is still there.
Since the policy doesn't document the current consensus, could you
draft an update? A discussion of specific text is more likely to
converge. -C
> If we are interested in changing that policy, we should agree on a
> change in a discussion with that as the main topic, and then _write it
> down_. We should not have to refer to discussions where this _may have
> come up off-topic or as a side note_, that is not fair to people trying
> to find out what our practices are.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
>> They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
>> them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
>> must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
>> development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
>> projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
>> corruption of that metric.
>>
>> As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C
>>
>> P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you reply.
>>
>> [1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
>> [2] http://s.apache.org/m2u
>>
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>
>
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[DISCUSS] Diversity policy (WAS: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite
from the Apache Incubator)
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 07/22/2015 01:36 AM, Chris Douglas wrote:
> Daniel-
> This has been discussed recently in graduations for Tez [1], Drill
> [2], and other projects whose continued incubation serves no purpose.
If by this you mean the Incubator has taught the podling what it needs
to know, and the podling is following the best practices of the Apache
Way, then we are in full agreement. I don't see the need to single me
out here, I am not disagreeing with that.
I am saying that we have a published policy which states that a podling
SHALL "demonstrate an active and diverse development community". Some
people are having concerns about this particular item, some are saying
it's irrelevant.
I don't think it's irrelevant when it is in our policy. If the IPMC
feels this policy is too vague or outright wrong, then we should have a
discussion about what we're going to do about that, and then act on it.
But as it stand, the policy states that for a project to be considered
for graduation, it shall demonstrate diversity, and people are in their
right to raise that as a concern, as it is _in the policy_, regardless
of what a segment of the IPMC have decided in other graduation
discussions or votes.
There was a discussion 3 years ago about this, but it did not result in
a change in our published policy. The policy is still there.
If we are interested in changing that policy, we should agree on a
change in a discussion with that as the main topic, and then _write it
down_. We should not have to refer to discussions where this _may have
come up off-topic or as a side note_, that is not fair to people trying
to find out what our practices are.
With regards,
Daniel.
> They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
> them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
> must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
> development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
> projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
> corruption of that metric.
>
> As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C
>
> P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you reply.
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
> [2] http://s.apache.org/m2u
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Chris,
Thanks for bringing up the Tez discussion. I think that it was a great
example of a community responding to questions and criticisms in a very
open and evidence based manner.
I was strongly -1 on that proposal originally based on similar grounds to
what has been raised in this thread. The community responded and showed me
how I was in error. The discussion was civil, but there were strong
disagreements that were worked out over time. On my side, I was working
enormously hard at the time and subject to jet-lag which made it very hard
to respond well.
My vote in the ensuing VOTE thread was +1 because of how the community
responded.
I was convinced that the community was open and welcoming and trying to
build. The raw numbers about affiliation weren't the whole story by any
stretch.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Chris Douglas <cd...@apache.org> wrote:
> Daniel-
>
> This has been discussed recently in graduations for Tez [1], Drill
> [2], and other projects whose continued incubation serves no purpose.
> They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
> them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
> must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
> development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
> projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
> corruption of that metric.
>
> As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C
>
> P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you
> reply.
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
> [2] http://s.apache.org/m2u
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Chris Douglas <cd...@apache.org>.
Daniel-
This has been discussed recently in graduations for Tez [1], Drill
[2], and other projects whose continued incubation serves no purpose.
They've completed a curriculum that clears their IP and introduces
them to the ASF's infrastructure, procedures, and culture. The project
must be open, and not threatened by the challenges that open
development poses. We encourage transparency by creating a climate for
projects to report honestly about diversity, rather than incentivizing
corruption of that metric.
As this thread demonstrates, the IPMC cannot do more. -C
P.S. Please fix your quoting, or delete the tail of the message as you reply.
[1] http://s.apache.org/uT4
[2] http://s.apache.org/m2u
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:38AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
>
> On 2015-07-22 00:41, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
> >>
> >>I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
> >>policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
> >>meritocratic community. The link you put in your reply says exactly
> >>that.
> >it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
> >have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
> >alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
> >have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.
> I wrote "scrap", not "scrape". They are two different words with
> different meanings.
Sorry, of course "scrap" - damn phone auto-incorrect ;)
> I was referring to Ted's argument that diversity was not a bar to
> graduation, which seems to contradict our policy.
I let Ted to address your comment.
> Either that published policy needs to be changed (and that should be
> done outside this podling discussion), or the graduation needs to
> adhere to that policy. But simply ignoring it is not something I am
> willing to do.
Ignoring what exactly? The "diverse" language in the Incubator guidelines
(again, not the policy) is extremely vague and is evidently a subject to all
sorts of interpretations. But let's have a further discussion about the exact
semantics of it elsewhere, if desired.
Cos
> WIth regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> >If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
> >be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
> >quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.
> >
> >Regards,
> > Cos
> >
> >>With regards,
> >>Daniel.
> >>
> >>On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >>>Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
> >>>
> >>>For easy reference, here's the link
> >>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >>>
> >>>to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
> >>>community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
> >>>your claim.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks
> >>> Cos
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>>>On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >>>>>Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>>>So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >>>>major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >>>>meritocratic community."?
> >>>>
> >>>>I think not.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >>>>>understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>>>>>nowhere.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> >>>>>>yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> >>>>>>project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> >>>>>>77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>>>>>regarding healthiness.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>>>>Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>>>Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>>>Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>>>>http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> >>>>>>>number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> >>>>>>>2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> >>>>>>>to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>>>>>73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>[quote]
> >>>>>>>There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>>>>>>requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>>>>>>We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>>>>>>diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>>>>>>out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>>>>>I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>>>>>>and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>>>>>status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>>>>>>create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>>>>>[/quote]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Regards,
> >>>>>>> Cos
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>>>>>It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>>>>>>>(Gridgrain).
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>>>>>independece?
> >>>>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>>>dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>>>>>>amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>>>>>>automated
> >>>>>>>>>>and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>>>>>>http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>>>>>>Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>>>>>>.
> >>>>>>>>>>You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>>>>>>>description
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>Thanks
> >>>>>>>>>>Amareshwari
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>>>>>dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>>>>>>consensus
> >>>>>>>>>>>and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>>>>>>graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>>>>>Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>>>>>>+1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>>>>>>consensus
> >>>>>>>>>>>within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>Thank you
> >>>>>>>>>>>Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>>>>Should be:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>---------
> >>>>>>>>>"related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> >>>>>>>>>integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>>>>>>transacting
> >>>>>>>>>on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>>>>>> --------
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >>>>>>be
> >>>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>>>>>>responsibility
> >>>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >>>>>>further
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >>>>>>President,
> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >>>>>>Apache
> >>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
The following page of the Incubator project states 'The project is not
highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally
independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is
vital to the success of the project)'.
https://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Minimum+Graduation+Requirements
The latter part of that statement ( there is no single company or entity
that is vital to the success of the project) in the policy document is very
clear. Proposing a group of privileged contributors of which 63% is
affiliated to one organisation can not be regarded as anything else than
that a single company has a disproportional influence on the project.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 2015-07-22 00:41, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
>>
>> I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
>> policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community. The link you put in your reply says exactly
>> that.
> it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
> have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
> alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
> have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.
I wrote "scrap", not "scrape". They are two different words with
different meanings.
I was referring to Ted's argument that diversity was not a bar to
graduation, which seems to contradict our policy.
Either that published policy needs to be changed (and that should be
done outside this podling discussion), or the graduation needs to adhere
to that policy. But simply ignoring it is not something I am willing to do.
WIth regards,
Daniel.
>
> If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
> be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
> quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.
>
> Regards,
> Cos
>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>> On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
>>> Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
>>>
>>> For easy reference, here's the link
>>> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>>>
>>> to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
>>> community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
>>> your claim.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Cos
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>>>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>>>> meritocratic community."?
>>>>
>>>> I think not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>>>> nowhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>>>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>>>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>>>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>>>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>>>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>>>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [quote]
>>>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Cos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>>>> independece?
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:17AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
>
> I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a
> policy that states that a podling must have an open and diverse
> meritocratic community. The link you put in your reply says exactly
> that.
it was question to Daniel because I don't see where proposed podling fails to
have "an open and diverse meritocratic community"; alas I don't see where the
alleged "policy scraping" is happening. The only quantitative data point I
have seen so far is these "63%" - hence my reference.
If this conversation has any attempt to be actionable - let's at least try to
be fact-of-matter. So far it was just a vague pointing to the out-of-context
quotes from the Incubator's guidelines.
Regards,
Cos
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> >Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
> >
> >For easy reference, here's the link
> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
> >
> >to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
> >community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
> >your claim.
> >
> >Thanks
> > Cos
> >
> >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >>On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >>>Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >>major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >>meritocratic community."?
> >>
> >>I think not.
> >>
> >>
> >>>What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >>>understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>>>nowhere.
> >>>>
> >>>>If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> >>>>yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> >>>>project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> >>>>77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>>>regarding healthiness.
> >>>>
> >>>>Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Pierre Smits
> >>>>
> >>>>*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>>Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>>Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>>Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>>http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>
> >>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> >>>>>number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> >>>>>2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> >>>>>to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>>>73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>>>
> >>>>>[quote]
> >>>>>There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>>>>requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>>>>We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>>>>diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>>>>out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>>>I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>>>>and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>>>status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>>>>create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>>>[/quote]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Regards,
> >>>>> Cos
> >>>>>
> >>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>>>It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>>>>>(Gridgrain).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>>>independece?
> >>>>>>Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>>>>amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>>>>automated
> >>>>>>>>and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>>>>http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>>>>Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>>>>.
> >>>>>>>>You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >>>>the
> >>>>>>>>description
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Thanks
> >>>>>>>>Amareshwari
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>>>dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>>>>consensus
> >>>>>>>>>and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>>>>graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>>>Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>>>>+1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>>>>consensus
> >>>>>>>>>within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Thank you
> >>>>>>>>>Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>>Should be:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>---------
> >>>>>>>"related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> >>>>>>>integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>>>>transacting
> >>>>>>>on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>>>> --------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >>>>be
> >>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>>>>responsibility
> >>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >>>>further
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >>>>President,
> >>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >>>>Apache
> >>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
Is this a reply to me or to Pierre?
I have not mentioned 63% anywhere. I have stated that we have a policy
that states that a podling must have an open and diverse meritocratic
community. The link you put in your reply says exactly that.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 2015-07-22 00:16, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
>
> For easy reference, here's the link
> https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
>
> to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
> community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
> your claim.
>
> Thanks
> Cos
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>>
>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>> nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>
>>>>> [quote]
>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>
>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Cos
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>> independece?
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>> further
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Sorry, which part of the quoted policy the 63% is allegedly scraping out?
For easy reference, here's the link
https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html
to the document containing the section of "Creating an Open and Diverse
community". So far I haven't heard a single matter of fact evidence supporting
your claim.
Thanks
Cos
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:48PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
>
> I think not.
>
>
> >
> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >> nowhere.
> >>
> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> regarding healthiness.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>
> >>> [quote]
> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>
> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>> [/quote]
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Cos
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>>> (Gridgrain).
> >>>>
> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >> independece?
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>> automated
> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>> .
> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >> the
> >>>>>> description
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>> Amareshwari
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>> consensus
> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>> consensus
> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thank you
> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Should be:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------
> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>> transacting
> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>> --------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >> be
> >>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>> responsibility
> >>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >> further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >> President,
> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >> Apache
> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:13PM, P. Taylor Goetz wrote:
> It seems to me the spirit of the diversity statement is about project survival:
>
> > A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> > or employer of contributors.
>
> So I would think satisfying that requirement wouldn’t necessarily involve a
> percentage, but rather a simple number: At least 3 PMC members who are not
> affiliated with the employer of the majority.
I think it sounds reasonable! And looks like it's all right here: there's more
than 3 PMC members not affiliated with the majority's employer.
Cos
> That way if the employer of the majority departed, there would be enough
> remaining members for form consensus.
>
> -Taylor
>
>
> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>
> >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >> meritocratic community."?
> >>
> >> I think not.
> >>
> >
> > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> >
> > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> >
> > -
> >
> > it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> > all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
> > of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
> > with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> > -
> >
> > it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> > guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> > higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> >
> > -
> >
> > PMC and committer diversity
> >
> > A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> > or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> > parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> > committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> > with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> > number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> > committership.
> >
> > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
> > are false
> >
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>>> nowhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> >> and
> >>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> >> intended
> >>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
> >> to
> >>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>>> regarding healthiness.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>
> >>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> >> for a
> >>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
> >> in
> >>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> >> want
> >>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [quote]
> >>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>>> [/quote]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Cos
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>>>>> (Gridgrain).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>>> independece?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>>>> automated
> >>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>> description
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>>> Amareshwari
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>>>> consensus
> >>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>>>> consensus
> >>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thank you
> >>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Should be:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> >>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>>>> transacting
> >>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>>>> --------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >>>> be
> >>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>>>> responsibility
> >>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >>>> further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >>>> President,
> >>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >>>> Apache
> >>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
It seems to me the spirit of the diversity statement is about project survival:
> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> or employer of contributors.
So I would think satisfying that requirement wouldn’t necessarily involve a percentage, but rather a simple number: At least 3 PMC members who are not affiliated with the employer of the majority.
That way if the employer of the majority departed, there would be enough remaining members for form consensus.
-Taylor
> On Jul 21, 2015, at 4:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>
> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
>
> -
>
> it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
> of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
> with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> -
>
> it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
>
> -
>
> PMC and committer diversity
>
> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> committership.
>
> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
> are false
>
>
> I think not.
>
>
> rgds
>
> jan I.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>> nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>> and
>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>> intended
>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>> to
>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>> for a
>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>> in
>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>> want
>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>
>>>>> [quote]
>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>
>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Cos
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>> independece?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 2015-07-22 00:47, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:33AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> On 2015-07-22 00:15, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Accusation of what exactly?
>>> Quoting Roy out of context.
>>>
>>> Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
>>> just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."
>>>
>>>> To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
>>>> discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
>>>> stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
>>>> (to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
>>>> way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
>>>> policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
>>>> consider as being out of context,
>>> Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
>>> "quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"
>>>
>>> Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
>>> importance.
>>>
>>> This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
>>> in that particular sentence.
>> I don't believe I was being sloppy in my use of language, but I
>> don't want to turn this into a battle over which dictionary is the
>> best, despite your counter-accusation of my sloppy verbal skills.
>>
>>> Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
>>> as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
>>> I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
>>> to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.
>>>
>>> Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
>>> was trying to communicate.
>> Be that as it may, if people have concerns about it, and it's still
>> in the policy docs, you either acknowledge and try your best to deal
>> with these concerns, or you work to change the policy, preferably in
>> a _separate channel_, you don't just dismiss it.
> The guidelines - not the _policy_ mind you - says exactly this:
>
> "A major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."
The policy says the podling SHALL "Demonstrate an active and diverse
development community".
One can argue that this is somewhat open to interpretation.
>
> So far there wasn't a single fact showing that the proposed podling has failed
> to do this.
While there is a high concentration of PMC members from one company,
yes, it is not axiomatic that this leads to bad things.
I have not stated that this particular issue is a problem.
> If such facts aren't brought to the attention of the IPMC I'd
> suggest we just drop the matter and/or move the further "policy" discussions to
> a separate thread to establish the semantics of that statements, if so
> desired.
I would very much like that :)
Clearly there is disagreement in the Incubator on the importance and
meaning of this specific element of the published policy.
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> Cos
>
>> I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with whether it is the _right_
>> policy, I am merely stating that it IS in our published policy and
>> that concerns have been raised relating to this. This particular bit
>> has nothing to do with Ignite, but graduation in general.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Roman.
>>>
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>>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:33AM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
> On 2015-07-22 00:15, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> >On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>Accusation of what exactly?
> >Quoting Roy out of context.
> >
> >Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
> >just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."
> >
> >>To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
> >>discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
> >>stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
> >>(to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
> >>way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
> >>policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
> >>consider as being out of context,
> >Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
> > "quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"
> >
> >Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
> >importance.
> >
> >This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
> >in that particular sentence.
>
> I don't believe I was being sloppy in my use of language, but I
> don't want to turn this into a battle over which dictionary is the
> best, despite your counter-accusation of my sloppy verbal skills.
>
> >
> >Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
> >as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
> >I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
> >to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.
> >
> >Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
> >was trying to communicate.
> Be that as it may, if people have concerns about it, and it's still
> in the policy docs, you either acknowledge and try your best to deal
> with these concerns, or you work to change the policy, preferably in
> a _separate channel_, you don't just dismiss it.
The guidelines - not the _policy_ mind you - says exactly this:
"A major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."
So far there wasn't a single fact showing that the proposed podling has failed
to do this. If such facts aren't brought to the attention of the IPMC I'd
suggest we just drop the matter and/or move the further "policy" discussions to
a separate thread to establish the semantics of that statements, if so
desired.
Cos
> I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with whether it is the _right_
> policy, I am merely stating that it IS in our published policy and
> that concerns have been raised relating to this. This particular bit
> has nothing to do with Ignite, but graduation in general.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Roman.
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 2015-07-22 00:15, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Accusation of what exactly?
> Quoting Roy out of context.
>
> Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
> just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."
>
>> To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
>> discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
>> stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
>> (to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
>> way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
>> policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
>> consider as being out of context,
> Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
> "quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"
>
> Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
> importance.
>
> This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
> in that particular sentence.
I don't believe I was being sloppy in my use of language, but I don't
want to turn this into a battle over which dictionary is the best,
despite your counter-accusation of my sloppy verbal skills.
>
> Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
> as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
> I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
> to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.
>
> Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
> was trying to communicate.
Be that as it may, if people have concerns about it, and it's still in
the policy docs, you either acknowledge and try your best to deal with
these concerns, or you work to change the policy, preferably in a
_separate channel_, you don't just dismiss it.
I am neither agreeing nor disagreeing with whether it is the _right_
policy, I am merely stating that it IS in our published policy and that
concerns have been raised relating to this. This particular bit has
nothing to do with Ignite, but graduation in general.
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Accusation of what exactly?
Quoting Roy out of context.
Here's what you said: "Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can
just throw out there when someone disagrees with you."
> To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
> discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
> stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be overlooked
> (to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail why he thinks the
> way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and quoting it as if it is
> policy (our published policy still begs to differ) is something I will
> consider as being out of context,
Then you should've said "quoting it as if it is policy". Because you see:
"quoting it as if it is policy" != "Quoting Roy out of context"
Precision of language in contentious online discussions is of paramount
importance.
This time I'll chalk up our misunderstanding to your sloppy use of language
in that particular sentence.
Which brings us back to what you actually wanted to say, which is: "quoting it
as if it is policy". That was NOT my intent. My intent was to *highlight* what
I took as a very insightful statement made in discussion extremely similar
to the one we're having here 3 years after the original discussion.
Roy's statement changed the way I think about ASF and IPMC. That was all I
was trying to communicate.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
Accusation of what exactly?
To the best of my knowledge, Roy has not been a part of the Ignite
discussion, nor is he quoting policy in that particular sentence, but
stating his opinion that the published Incubator policy should be
overlooked (to which I disagree). Yes, he explains in rigorous detail
why he thinks the way he thinks, but that is still an _opinion_, and
quoting it as if it is policy (our published policy still begs to
differ) is something I will consider as being out of context, as it does
not convey the exact sentiment but rather, in my view, warps it into a
truth of sorts.
Yes, I value your hard work and I think you have immense amounts of
merit, but I really dislike people always throwing Roy into every single
discussion, and I tend to point it out.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 2015-07-21 23:48, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Quoting Roy out of context
> Daniel, unless you can substantiate the above claim I suggest
> you retract your statement. In open communities an accusation
> that you just threw at me carries a lot of weight and I will absolutely
> NOT tolerate baseless accusations of that kind.
>
> I really hope I've done enough around IPMC over the years to
> earn at least a modicum of respect.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Quoting Roy out of context
Daniel, unless you can substantiate the above claim I suggest
you retract your statement. In open communities an accusation
that you just threw at me carries a lot of weight and I will absolutely
NOT tolerate baseless accusations of that kind.
I really hope I've done enough around IPMC over the years to
earn at least a modicum of respect.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
(Sorry if the placement of this reply is wrong, but this thread is getting long and tarting to branch a bit...)
Maybe the question we should be asking is:
Has the ignite podling demonstrated sufficient dedication to diversity that it can survive as a TLP, and not be overly influenced by a single corporate entity?
If the answer is "yes," then I would vote +1.
-Taylor
> On Jul 21, 2015, at 7:21 PM, David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
>>> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
>>> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>>
>> Actually, I would hope that the criterion is whether there is a single
>> corporate entity, the distraction of which would effectively kill the
>> project.
>>
>> And we do need to look at Ambari as a precedent. Even now the PMC has 30
>> members from one company and 7 from other companies. No other company has
>> more than two PMC members and all of the top 24 contributors are from the
>> majority company. I would be very surprised if this project could survive
>> a withdrawal of support from that one company.
>>
>> Yet we graduated Ambari without a peep. Not surprisingly, most of the
>> votes were cast by employees of that one company. But nobody complained at
>> all.
>>
>> So it behooves us as some critique Ignite for lack of diversity to ask
>> whether precedent matters at all here.
>>
>> Does it?
>
> Speaking generally:
> I don't think so.
> No one noticed or complained is hardly reason to ignore problems, (if
> it is indeed a problem) or to say that such decisions are now binding.
> It might be a different matter if it was explicitly acknowledged.
>
> --David
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by David Nalley <da...@gnsa.us>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 7:10 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
>> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
>> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>>
>
> Actually, I would hope that the criterion is whether there is a single
> corporate entity, the distraction of which would effectively kill the
> project.
>
> And we do need to look at Ambari as a precedent. Even now the PMC has 30
> members from one company and 7 from other companies. No other company has
> more than two PMC members and all of the top 24 contributors are from the
> majority company. I would be very surprised if this project could survive
> a withdrawal of support from that one company.
>
> Yet we graduated Ambari without a peep. Not surprisingly, most of the
> votes were cast by employees of that one company. But nobody complained at
> all.
>
> So it behooves us as some critique Ignite for lack of diversity to ask
> whether precedent matters at all here.
>
> Does it?
Speaking generally:
I don't think so.
No one noticed or complained is hardly reason to ignore problems, (if
it is indeed a problem) or to say that such decisions are now binding.
It might be a different matter if it was explicitly acknowledged.
--David
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>
Actually, I would hope that the criterion is whether there is a single
corporate entity, the distraction of which would effectively kill the
project.
And we do need to look at Ambari as a precedent. Even now the PMC has 30
members from one company and 7 from other companies. No other company has
more than two PMC members and all of the top 24 contributors are from the
majority company. I would be very surprised if this project could survive
a withdrawal of support from that one company.
Yet we graduated Ambari without a peep. Not surprisingly, most of the
votes were cast by employees of that one company. But nobody complained at
all.
So it behooves us as some critique Ignite for lack of diversity to ask
whether precedent matters at all here.
Does it?
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>.
I have seen top level projects, with majority of PMCs come from paid
employees of a single company, suffer of growth and development when
the employees of such company stop contributing to the project.
Going back to Apache Ignite, since it is the main core of GridGain I
doubt the project will be abandoned, unless the whole company shift
gear or go bankrupt.
The proposed PMCs also includes the mentors, which I could bring some
check and balance to the project, and I know they have done great job
bringing the Ignite initial committers to the Apache way.
- Henry
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:29 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> While Roy is indeed a smart man, there is no BDFL in the ASF.
> Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can just throw out there
> when someone disagrees with you.
>
> Several people, including several IPMC members have expressed concerns.
> Address them properly instead of insisting on your way or the high way.
>
> The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
> men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
> entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
>
> What I am concerned with here is the responses to this. Instead of saying
> "We don't believe that to be the case", the PPMC is saying "there's no rule
> against that!" as if there _is_ an issue but it's being swept under the rug.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> On 2015-07-21 23:19, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>>
>> Please re-read the quote from Roy:
>>
>> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>> We must not confuse the two."
>>
>> and later
>>
>> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>> and I have no cycles to spare."
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>>>
>>>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>>>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>>>> meritocratic community."?
>>>>
>>>> I think not.
>>>>
>>> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>>>
>>> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact,
>>> with
>>> all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
>>> seeing all
>>> of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
>>> than
>>> with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
>>> -
>>>
>>> it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
>>> guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
>>> higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> PMC and committer diversity
>>>
>>> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
>>> contributor
>>> or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of
>>> many
>>> parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
>>> committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
>>> with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
>>> number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
>>> committership.
>>>
>>> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
>>> guidelines
>>> are false
>>>
>>>
>>> I think not.
>>>
>>>
>>> rgds
>>>
>>> jan I.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>>>> nowhere.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>>>>
>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>>>>
>>>> intended
>>>>>>
>>>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>>>>
>>>> for a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>>>>
>>>> want
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [quote]
>>>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Cos
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
>>>>>>>> organisation
>>>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> independece?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
>>>>>>>>> high-performance,
>>>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the
>>>>>>>>>>> chair
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache
>>>>>>>>>>> Incubator
>>>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
While Roy is indeed a smart man, there is no BDFL in the ASF.
Quoting Roy out of context is not a Hail Mary you can just throw out
there when someone disagrees with you.
Several people, including several IPMC members have expressed concerns.
Address them properly instead of insisting on your way or the high way.
The question of diversity in this case is not "are we enough
men/women/whatever", the question here is "is there a single corporate
entity with a deciding vote in the project?".
What I am concerned with here is the responses to this. Instead of
saying "We don't believe that to be the case", the PPMC is saying
"there's no rule against that!" as if there _is_ an issue but it's being
swept under the rug.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 2015-07-21 23:19, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> Please re-read the quote from Roy:
>
> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two."
>
> and later
>
> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare."
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>>> meritocratic community."?
>>>
>>> I think not.
>>>
>> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>>
>> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
>>
>> -
>>
>> it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
>> all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
>> of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
>> with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
>> -
>>
>> it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
>> guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
>> higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
>>
>> -
>>
>> PMC and committer diversity
>>
>> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
>> or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
>> parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
>> committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
>> with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
>> number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
>> committership.
>>
>> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
>> are false
>>
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>>
>> rgds
>>
>> jan I.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>>> nowhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>>> and
>>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>>> intended
>>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>>> to
>>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>>> for a
>>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>>> in
>>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>>> want
>>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [quote]
>>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Cos
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>>> independece?
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:44PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there
> seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We
> now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are
> mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).
I fail to see how CoC has to do with the numbers you just quoted, so let's
not sway the conversation that way.
That said - can you quote any empirical evidences (or any evidences at all) on
why %63 seems low? I have asked you this very question in a different message
and would appreciate if the person who started this discussion can add some
factual information to support the claim.
Thank you.
Cos
> Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The
> diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of
> balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Please re-read the quote from Roy:
> >
> > "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two."
> >
> > and later
> >
> > "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare."
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Roman.
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> > >>
> > >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > >> meritocratic community."?
> > >>
> > >> I think not.
> > >>
> > >
> > > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> > >
> > > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> > > all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
> > seeing all
> > > of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
> > than
> > > with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> > > -
> > >
> > > it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> > > guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> > > higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> > >
> > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> > >
> > > -
> > >
> > > PMC and committer diversity
> > >
> > > A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
> > contributor
> > > or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> > > parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> > > committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> > > with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> > > number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> > > committership.
> > >
> > > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
> > guidelines
> > > are false
> > >
> > >
> > > I think not.
> > >
> > >
> > > rgds
> > >
> > > jan I.
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > >> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> > >> >> nowhere.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> > >> and
> > >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> > >> intended
> > >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
> > grows
> > >> to
> > >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> > >> >> regarding healthiness.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Best regards,
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Pierre Smits
> > >> >>
> > >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > >> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> > >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> > >> for a
> > >> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project
> > (back
> > >> in
> > >> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> > >> want
> > >> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > >> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> [quote]
> > >> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> > >> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > >> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> > >> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> > >> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > >> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > >> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > >> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> > >> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > >> >>> [/quote]
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Regards,
> > >> >>> Cos
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > >> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
> > organisation
> > >> >>>> (Gridgrain).
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> > >> >> independece?
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Best regards,
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> Pierre Smits
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > >> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > >> >>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> > >> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> > >> >>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> > >> >>> automated
> > >> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> > >> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > >> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > >> >>>>>> .
> > >> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> > >> >> the
> > >> >>>>>> description
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> Thanks
> > >> >>>>>> Amareshwari
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > >> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > >> >>>>>> wrote:
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community
> > established
> > >> >>>>>> consensus
> > >> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of
> > proposing
> > >> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> > >> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > >> >>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > >> >>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > >> >>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> > >> >>> consensus
> > >> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Thank you
> > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > >> >>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > >> >>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > >> >>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > >> >>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > >> >>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > >> >>>>>>> information between systems.
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> Should be:
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>> ---------
> > >> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
> > high-performance,
> > >> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> > >> >>> transacting
> > >> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> > >> >>>>> --------
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > >> >>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > >> >>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > >> >>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > >> >>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > >> >>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > >> >>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> > >> >> be
> > >> >>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > >> >>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the
> > chair
> > >> >>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> > >> >>> responsibility
> > >> >>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> > >> >>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> > >> >> further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > >> >>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> > >> >> President,
> > >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to
> > the
> > >> >>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > >> >>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > >> >>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > >> >>>>>>> and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby
> > is
> > >> >>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > >> >>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in
> > the
> > >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > >> >>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> > >> >> Apache
> > >> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > >> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache
> > Incubator
> > >> >>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> > >> >>>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>>
> > >> >>>>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
A lot has changed in the period after the posting of Roy. Back then there
seemed to have been less concern regarding independence and diversity. We
now have a code of conduct (even though some are convinced that these are
mere guidelines when it comes to a project's independence).
Diversity is not the same as having 3 independent (p)PMC members. The
diversity aspect is also intended to ensure that there is some kind of
balance, before a project goes bust. If such happens, it might be to late.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:19 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>
wrote:
> Please re-read the quote from Roy:
>
> "There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two."
>
> and later
>
> "I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare."
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> > On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >>
> >> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> >> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> >> meritocratic community."?
> >>
> >> I think not.
> >>
> >
> > If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
> >
> > Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
> >
> > -
> >
> > it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> > all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of
> seeing all
> > of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater
> than
> > with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> > -
> >
> > it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> > guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> > higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
> >
> > -
> >
> > PMC and committer diversity
> >
> > A healthy project should survive the departure of any single
> contributor
> > or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> > parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> > committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> > with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> > number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> > committership.
> >
> > If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and
> guidelines
> > are false
> >
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> > rgds
> >
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com
> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >> >> nowhere.
> >> >>
> >> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> >> and
> >> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> >> intended
> >> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number
> grows
> >> to
> >> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> >> regarding healthiness.
> >> >>
> >> >> Best regards,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Pierre Smits
> >> >>
> >> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> >> for a
> >> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project
> (back
> >> in
> >> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> >> want
> >> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [quote]
> >> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >> >>> [/quote]
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards,
> >> >>> Cos
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
> organisation
> >> >>>> (Gridgrain).
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >> >> independece?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Best regards,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Pierre Smits
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >> >>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >> >>> automated
> >> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> >>>>>> .
> >> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >> >> the
> >> >>>>>> description
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Thanks
> >> >>>>>> Amareshwari
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community
> established
> >> >>>>>> consensus
> >> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of
> proposing
> >> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >> >>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >> >>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >> >>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >> >>> consensus
> >> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Thank you
> >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >> >>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >> >>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >> >>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >> >>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >> >>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >> >>>>>>> information between systems.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Should be:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> ---------
> >> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
> high-performance,
> >> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >> >>> transacting
> >> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >> >>>>> --------
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >> >>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >> >>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >> >>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >> >>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >> >>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >> >>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >> >> be
> >> >>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >> >>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the
> chair
> >> >>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >> >>> responsibility
> >> >>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >> >>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >> >> further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >> >>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >> >> President,
> >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to
> the
> >> >>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >> >>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >> >>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >> >>>>>>> and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby
> is
> >> >>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >> >>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in
> the
> >> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >> >>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >> >> Apache
> >> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache
> Incubator
> >> >>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
Please re-read the quote from Roy:
"There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two."
and later
"I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare."
Thanks,
Roman.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:55 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>
> If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
>
> Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
>
> -
>
> it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
> all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
> of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
> with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
> -
>
> it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
> guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
> higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
>
> -
>
> PMC and committer diversity
>
> A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
> or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
> parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
> committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
> with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
> number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
> committership.
>
> If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
> are false
>
>
> I think not.
>
>
> rgds
>
> jan I.
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>> >> nowhere.
>> >>
>> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>> and
>> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>> intended
>> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>> to
>> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>> >> regarding healthiness.
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Pierre Smits
>> >>
>> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> >> Services and Retail & Trade
>> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>> for a
>> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>> in
>> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>> want
>> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>> >>>
>> >>> [quote]
>> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>> >>>
>> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>> >>> [/quote]
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards,
>> >>> Cos
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>> >>>> (Gridgrain).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>> >> independece?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best regards,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Pierre Smits
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>> >>> automated
>> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> >>>>>> .
>> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>> >> the
>> >>>>>> description
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thanks
>> >>>>>> Amareshwari
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>> >>>>>> consensus
>> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>> >>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>> >>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>> >>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>> >>> consensus
>> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Thank you
>> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>> >>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>> >>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>> >>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>> >>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>> >>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>> >>>>>>> information between systems.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Should be:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ---------
>> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>> >>> transacting
>> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>> >>>>> --------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>> >>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>> >>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>> >>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>> >>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>> >>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>> >>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>> >> be
>> >>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>> >>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>> >>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>> >>> responsibility
>> >>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>> >>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>> >> further
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>> >>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>> >> President,
>> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>> >>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>> >>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>> >>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>> >>>>>>> and be it further
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>> >>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>> >>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>> >>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>> >> Apache
>> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>> >>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
On 21 July 2015 at 22:48, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
>
> I think not.
>
If diversity does not matter, then please explain these references:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
Diversity of committership is important for two main reasons:
-
it gives long term stability to the project development: in fact, with
all the developers affiliated to the same entity, the chance of seeing all
of them moving away from the project at the same time is much greater than
with a community of individuals affiliated to unrelated entities.
-
it gives a greater variety of technical visions: something that
guarantees a better adherence to environment and user's needs, thus a
higher change of finding real-life use of the software.
http://www.apache.org/foundation/board/reporting
-
PMC and committer diversity
A healthy project should survive the departure of any single contributor
or employer of contributors. Healthy projects also serve needs of many
parties. Thus the ASF prefers that projects have diverse PMCs and
committerships. *IF* the PMC has any concerns or perceives a problem
with the diversity, then the report should include information on the
number of unique organizations currently represented in its PMC and
committership.
If diversity did not matter for TLPs, the above explanation and guidelines
are false
I think not.
rgds
jan I.
>
>
> >
> > What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> > understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >> nowhere.
> >>
> >> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> and
> >> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> intended
> >> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
> to
> >> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >> regarding healthiness.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> for a
> >>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
> in
> >>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> want
> >>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>
> >>> [quote]
> >>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>
> >>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>> [/quote]
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Cos
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>>> (Gridgrain).
> >>>>
> >>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >> independece?
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>> automated
> >>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>> .
> >>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >> the
> >>>>>> description
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>> Amareshwari
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>> consensus
> >>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>> consensus
> >>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thank you
> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Should be:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------
> >>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> >>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>> transacting
> >>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>> --------
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >> be
> >>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>> responsibility
> >>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >> further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >> President,
> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >> Apache
> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 2015-07-22 01:17, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Nitpicking time.
>>>
>>> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
>>> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
>>> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
>>> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
>>> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
>>> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
>>> Ignite releases."
>>>
>>> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
>>> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
>>> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).
>>>
>>
>> Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
>> their community editions for Apache Ignite.
>>
>
> Excellent!
>
>
>> You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it -
>> it's
>>
>>> either or.
>>>
>>
>> We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very
>> confusing
>> to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.
>>
>> I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of
>> anything
>> other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
>> endorsing this edition.
>>
> Thanks :)
> I still find it a bit problematic that the text infers that GridGain's 3rd
> party binary is somehow "potentially upstream" from Apache Ignite, but I
> will defer to Shane to decide whether that is allowed or not.
>
>
>> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
>>> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
>>> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
>>> project whatsoever.
>>>
>>> Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or
>> another.
>> All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
>> affiliation.
>>
>
> To be clear, I am not about to veto a graduation vote because of company
> affiliations, I just don't think it belongs on the page.
> If/when you graduate, the PMC has every right to decide this for
> themselves, I believe.
>
Looking at how this discussion is going, I think we should leave it as is
for now in the interest of transparency.
>
>
>> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
>>> this is also not acceptable.
>>>
>>> This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
>> GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.
>>
>> I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
>> you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?
>>
>
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/datagrid.html
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/igniterdd.html
> etc.
> I think you should just grep for it in your features directory, there may
> be more pages that refer to it.
>
I fixed it in a bunch of places by doing a grep. If you find anything I
missed, please let me know.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 2015-07-22 01:17, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Nitpicking time.
>>
>> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
>> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
>> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
>> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
>> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
>> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
>> Ignite releases."
>>
>> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
>> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
>> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).
>
> Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
> their community editions for Apache Ignite.
Excellent!
>
> You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's
>> either or.
>
> We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very confusing
> to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.
>
> I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of anything
> other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
> endorsing this edition.
Thanks :)
I still find it a bit problematic that the text infers that GridGain's
3rd party binary is somehow "potentially upstream" from Apache Ignite,
but I will defer to Shane to decide whether that is allowed or not.
>
>> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
>> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
>> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
>> project whatsoever.
>>
> Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or another.
> All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
> affiliation.
To be clear, I am not about to veto a graduation vote because of company
affiliations, I just don't think it belongs on the page.
If/when you graduate, the PMC has every right to decide this for
themselves, I believe.
>
>> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
>> this is also not acceptable.
>>
> This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
> GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.
>
> I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
> you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/datagrid.html
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/features/igniterdd.html
etc.
I think you should just grep for it in your features directory, there
may be more pages that refer to it.
With regards,
Daniel
>
>
>> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
>> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>
>> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>>> meritocratic community."?
>>>
>>> I think not.
>>>
>>>
>>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>>> nowhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
>> and
>>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
>> intended
>>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
>> to
>>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
>> for a
>>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
>> in
>>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
>> want
>>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [quote]
>>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Cos
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
>> organisation
>>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>>> independece?
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
>> high-performance,
>>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Nitpicking time.
>
> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
> Ignite releases."
>
> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page).
Good point. I have added text specifying how other companies can provide
their community editions for Apache Ignite.
You start off by saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's
> either or.
We started out by providing just a blank link, but it became very confusing
to our users, and we allowed GridGain to add a brief description.
I have just updated the text of the description to strip it out of anything
other than facts. I don't think it conflicts with Ignite not officially
endorsing this edition.
>
> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
> project whatsoever.
>
Although I see your point, I don't think it's harmful one way or another.
All the community members voluntarily and willingly provided their company
affiliation.
>
> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
> this is also not acceptable.
>
This is not on purpose. The documentation was initially migrated from
GridGain and some old links might have sneaked in.
I cannot find any places with gridgain.org links you are referencing. Can
you please point those out, so I can quickly fix them?
>
> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >
> > On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >
> > So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > meritocratic community."?
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>> nowhere.
> >>>
> >>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman
> and
> >>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of
> intended
> >>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows
> to
> >>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>> regarding healthiness.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list
> for a
> >>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back
> in
> >>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who
> want
> >>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>>
> >>>> [quote]
> >>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>>
> >>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>> [/quote]
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Cos
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1
> organisation
> >>>>> (Gridgrain).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>> independece?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>>> automated
> >>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> description
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>> Amareshwari
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>>> consensus
> >>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>>> consensus
> >>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you
> >>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Should be:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a
> high-performance,
> >>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>>> transacting
> >>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>>> --------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >>> be
> >>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>>> responsibility
> >>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >>> further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >>> President,
> >>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >>> Apache
> >>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:08PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> Nitpicking time.
>
> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
> Ignite releases."
>
> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page). You start off by
> saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's either or.
>
> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
> project whatsoever.
>
> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
> this is also not acceptable.
>
> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
Fair points! Thanks Daniel, I was sure these very fixed a while ago.
As for the affiliation of the members: pretty much every other ASF project
does the same. Shall we make sure that established TLPs aren't doing this
either?
Regards,
Cos
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> >
> > On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
> >
> > So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> > major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> > meritocratic community."?
> >
> > I think not.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> >> understand how to make releases and are building community.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> >>> nowhere.
> >>>
> >>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> >>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> >>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> >>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> >>> regarding healthiness.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Pierre Smits
> >>>
> >>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> >>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> >>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> >>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> >>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >>>>
> >>>> [quote]
> >>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> >>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> >>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> >>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> >>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> >>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> >>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
> >>>>
> >>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> >>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> >>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> >>>> [/quote]
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>> Cos
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> >>>>> (Gridgrain).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> >>> independece?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> >>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> >>>> automated
> >>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
> >>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> >>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> >>> the
> >>>>>>> description
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks
> >>>>>>> Amareshwari
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> >>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >>>>>>> consensus
> >>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> >>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Vote thread:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
> >>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> >>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> >>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> >>>> consensus
> >>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thank you
> >>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> >>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> >>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> >>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> >>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> >>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> >>>>>>>> information between systems.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Should be:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------
> >>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> >>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> >>>> transacting
> >>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> >>>>>> --------
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> >>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> >>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> >>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> >>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> >>> be
> >>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> >>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> >>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> >>>> responsibility
> >>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
> >>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> >>> further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> >>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> >>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> >>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> >>> President,
> >>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> >>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> >>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> >>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> >>>>>>>> and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> >>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> >>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> >>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> >>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> >>> Apache
> >>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> >>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 3:04 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <pt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another minor nitpick:
>
> On the people page of the ignite website, some are tagged as "PMC" and
> there is a tag for "PMC Chair." Until official graduation, that should
> probably change to "PPMC" and the "PMC Chair" tag be removed, since AFAIK
> podlings don't have VPs.
>
Done.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
Another minor nitpick:
On the people page of the ignite website, some are tagged as "PMC" and there is a tag for "PMC Chair." Until official graduation, that should probably change to "PPMC" and the "PMC Chair" tag be removed, since AFAIK podlings don't have VPs.
-Taylor
> On Jul 21, 2015, at 5:08 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Nitpicking time.
>
> Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
> "GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
> by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
> Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
> continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
> and features that will be included into the future official Apache
> Ignite releases."
>
> - I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
> considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
> how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page). You start off by
> saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's either or.
>
> Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
> While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
> is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
> project whatsoever.
>
> You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
> this is also not acceptable.
>
> I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
> vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
>> On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>>
>> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
>> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
>> meritocratic community."?
>>
>> I think not.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>>> nowhere.
>>>>
>>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>>
>>>>> [quote]
>>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>>
>>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>>> [/quote]
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Cos
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>>> independece?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>>> automated
>>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>>> transacting
>>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>>> further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>>> President,
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>>> Apache
>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
Nitpicking time.
Your supposedly vendor-neutral web site says:
"GridGain Community Edition is a binary build of Apache Ignite created
by GridGain, which includes optional LGPL dependencies, such as
Hibernate L2 cache integration and Geospatial Indexing. It benefits from
continued testing by GridGain engineers and may contain latest bug fixes
and features that will be included into the future official Apache
Ignite releases."
- I consider this very biased towards a single company (especially
considering it is the _only_ 3rd party listed, and you do _not_ specify
how other 3rd parties may get listed on the page). You start off by
saying you don't endorse it, and then you praise it - it's either or.
Your web site also lists the organizational affiliation of PMC members.
While this may be useful internally in the ASF, I fail to see why this
is mentioned on the web site. This should have no relevance to the
project whatsoever.
You point to gridgain.org for several of your documentation segments,
this is also not acceptable.
I would very much like to see this rectified before we get to an actual
vote, or I will possibly be casting a -1.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 07/21/2015 10:48 PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>
> On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
>
> So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
> major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
> meritocratic community."?
>
> I think not.
>
>
>>
>> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
>> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>>> nowhere.
>>>
>>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>>> regarding healthiness.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Pierre Smits
>>>
>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>>
>>>> [quote]
>>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>>
>>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>>> [/quote]
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Cos
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>>
>>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>>> independece?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>>> automated
>>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>>> the
>>>>>>> description
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>>> consensus
>>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>>> transacting
>>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>>> --------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>>> be
>>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>>> responsibility
>>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>>> further
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>>> President,
>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>>> Apache
>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 07/21/2015 10:39 PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
So we should just scrap the bit in the Incubator policy that says "A
major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse
meritocratic community."?
I think not.
>
> What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
> understand how to make releases and are building community.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
>> nowhere.
>>
>> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
>> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
>> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
>> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
>> regarding healthiness.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
>>> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
>>> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
>>> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
>>> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>>>
>>> [quote]
>>> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
>>> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
>>> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
>>> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
>>> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
>>> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
>>> and I have no cycles to spare.
>>>
>>> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
>>> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
>>> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
>>> [/quote]
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Cos
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
>>>> (Gridgrain).
>>>>
>>>> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
>> independece?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
>>> amareshwari@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
>>> automated
>>>>>> and managed flow of information between systems."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I dont see any such on project website -
>>>>>> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
>>>>>> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>>>>>> .
>>>>>> You might want to correct it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
>> the
>>>>>> description
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Amareshwari
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
>>>>> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>>>>> consensus
>>>>>>> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>>>>>>> graduation to TLP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vote thread:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>>>>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>>>>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>>>>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>>>>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>>>>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>>>>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>>>>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>>>>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>>>>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>>>>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>>>>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>>>>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>>>>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>>>>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
>>> consensus
>>>>>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>>>>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>>>>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>>>>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>>>>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>>>>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>>>>>> information between systems.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Should be:
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------
>>>>> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
>>>>> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
>>> transacting
>>>>> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>>>>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>>>>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>>>>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>>>>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>>>>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>>>>>> between systems and be it further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
>> be
>>>>>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>>>>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>>>>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
>>> responsibility
>>>>>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>>>>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
>> further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>>>>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>>>>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>>>>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
>> President,
>>>>>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>>>>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>>>>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>>>>>> and be it further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>>>>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>>>>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>>>>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>>>>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
>> Apache
>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>>>>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Present time diversity or lack of same is not a bar to graduation.
What is important is that the committers and PMC of the new project
understand how to make releases and are building community.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> nowhere.
>
> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> regarding healthiness.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> > number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> > 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> > to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >
> > [quote]
> > There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> > diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> > out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare.
> >
> > A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> > create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > [/quote]
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cos
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > > (Gridgrain).
> > >
> > > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and
> independece?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> > amareshwari@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> > automated
> > > > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > > .
> > > > > You might want to correct it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding
> the
> > > > > description
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Amareshwari
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > > > consensus
> > > > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vote thread:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > > > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > > > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > > > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > > > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > > > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > > > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > > > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > > > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > > > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > > > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > > > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > > > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > > > 14. Milap Wadwa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> > consensus
> > > > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > > > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > > > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > > > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > > > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > > > > information between systems.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Should be:
> > > >
> > > > ---------
> > > > "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> > > > integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> > transacting
> > > > on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> > > > --------
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > > > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > > > > between systems and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite"
> be
> > > > > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > > > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > > > > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> > responsibility
> > > > > > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > > > > > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it
> further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > > > > > Apache Ignite Project:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > > > > > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > > > > > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > > > > > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > > > > > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > > > > > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > > > > > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > > > > > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > > > > > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > > > > > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > > > > > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > > > > > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > > > > > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > > > > > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > > > > > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > > > > > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice
> President,
> > > > > > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > > > > > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > > > > > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > > > > > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > > > > > and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > > > > > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > > > > > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > > > > > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > > > > > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the
> Apache
> > > > > > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > > > > > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > > > > > Project are hereafter discharged.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:30PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
> nowhere.
Or, I didn't know that unique message Id isn't enough nowadays. Here's the
easier link for your convenience ;)
http://markmail.org/message/5l5hsygvntcx5fqb
with the link to the overarching thread
http://apache.markmail.org/message/5l5hsygvntcx5fqb?q=flume+diversity+list:org%2Eapache%2Eincubator%2Egeneral+from:+%22Roy%22
Cos
> If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
> yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
> project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
> 77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
> regarding healthiness.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> > number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> > 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> > to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> > 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
> >
> > [quote]
> > There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> > requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> > We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> > diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> > out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> > I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> > and I have no cycles to spare.
> >
> > A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> > status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> > create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> > [/quote]
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cos
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > > (Gridgrain).
> > >
> > > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> > amareshwari@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> > automated
> > > > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > > .
> > > > > You might want to correct it.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
> > > > > description
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > > Amareshwari
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > > dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > > > consensus
> > > > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vote thread:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > > > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > > > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > > > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > > > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > > > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > > > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > > > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > > > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > > > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > > > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > > > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > > > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > > > 14. Milap Wadwa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> > consensus
> > > > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > > > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > > > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > > > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > > > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > > > > information between systems.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Should be:
> > > >
> > > > ---------
> > > > "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> > > > integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> > transacting
> > > > on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> > > > --------
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > > > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > > > > between systems and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > > > > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > > > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > > > > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> > responsibility
> > > > > > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > > > > > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > > > > > Apache Ignite Project:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > > > > > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > > > > > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > > > > > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > > > > > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > > > > > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > > > > > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > > > > > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > > > > > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > > > > > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > > > > > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > > > > > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > > > > > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > > > > > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > > > > > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > > > > > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > > > > > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > > > > > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > > > > > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > > > > > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > > > > > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > > > > > and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > > > > > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > > > > > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > > > > > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > > > > > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > > > > > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > > > > > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > > > > > Project are hereafter discharged.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Thanks, Konstantin, for the enlighting quote. And the link leading to
nowhere.
If we take away the names of the mentors from the list (Branko, Roman and
yours) as well as those in other projects (Evans) from the list of intended
project members, the situation even grows worse. Then the number grows to
77%. That doesn't look promising regarding independence, and neither
regarding healthiness.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
> number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
> 2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
> to look it up in the archives MessageId is
> 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
>
> [quote]
> There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
> requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
> We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
> diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
> out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
> I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
> and I have no cycles to spare.
>
> A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
> status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
> create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
> [/quote]
>
> Regards,
> Cos
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> > (Gridgrain).
> >
> > Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <
> amareshwari@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the
> automated
> > > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > > >
> > > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > > .
> > > > You might want to correct it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
> > > > description
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Amareshwari
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > > dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > > >
> > > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > > consensus
> > > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vote thread:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > > 14. Milap Wadwa
> > > > >
> > > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a
> consensus
> > > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you
> > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > > >
> > > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > > >
> > > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > > > information between systems.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Should be:
> > >
> > > ---------
> > > "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> > > integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and
> transacting
> > > on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> > > --------
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > > > between systems and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > > > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > > > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary
> responsibility
> > > > > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > > > > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > > > > Apache Ignite Project:
> > > > >
> > > > > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > > > > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > > > > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > > > > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > > > > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > > > > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > > > > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > > > > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > > > > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > > > > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > > > > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > > > > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > > > > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > > > > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > > > > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > > > > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > > > > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > > > > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > > > > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > > > > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > > > > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > > > >
> > > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > > > > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > > > > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > > > > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > > > > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > > > > and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > > > > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > > > > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > > > > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > > > > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > > > > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > > > >
> > > > > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > > > > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > > > > Project are hereafter discharged.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
The so-called diversity requirement has been discussed on this list for a
number of times. Most recent is the graduation of Flume project (back in
2012). Here's a quote from that thread (kudos to Roy; for those who want
to look it up in the archives MessageId is 73DB2E64-87D5-4DD5-91FB-403464895AC5@gbiv.com):
[quote]
There is no diversity requirement at the ASF. There is a behavior
requirement for graduation and a behavior requirement for TLPs.
We must not confuse the two. If the Incubator says that there is a
diversity requirement for graduation, ignore it (or at least figure
out what the docs were supposed to say and then do that).
I'd urge folks to fix the docs, but I know where that leads ...
and I have no cycles to spare.
A diversity requirement would mean that a person's employment
status impacts their ability to participate here. IOW, it would
create a perverse incentive for them not to be employed.
[/quote]
Regards,
Cos
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 05:55PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
> (Gridgrain).
>
> Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <am...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> > > and managed flow of information between systems."
> > >
> > > I dont see any such on project website -
> > > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> > >
> > >
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > > .
> > > You might want to correct it.
> > >
> >
> > Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
> > > description
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Amareshwari
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> > dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > > >
> > > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > > consensus
> > > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > > graduation to TLP.
> > > >
> > > > Vote thread:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > > >
> > > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > > >
> > > > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > > 14. Milap Wadwa
> > > >
> > > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > > >
> > > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > > >
> > > > Thank you
> > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > > >
> > > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > > >
> > > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > > information between systems.
> > >
> >
> > Should be:
> >
> > ---------
> > "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> > integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and transacting
> > on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> > --------
> >
> > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > > Foundation; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > > between systems and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > > > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > > > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > > > Apache Ignite Project:
> > > >
> > > > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > > > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > > > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > > > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > > > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > > > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > > > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > > > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > > > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > > > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > > > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > > > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > > > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > > > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > > > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > > > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > > > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > > > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > > > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > > > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > > > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > > >
> > > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > > > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > > > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > > > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > > > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > > > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > > > and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > > > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > > > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > > > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > > > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > > > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > > >
> > > > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > > > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > > > Project are hereafter discharged.
> > > >
> > >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
It seems that 63% of the podling's PMC is affiliated to 1 organisation
(Gridgrain).
Have sufficient grounds been covered to ensure diversity and independece?
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:13 PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <am...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> > and managed flow of information between systems."
> >
> > I dont see any such on project website -
> > http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> > Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
> >
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> > .
> > You might want to correct it.
> >
>
> Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>
>
> >
> > Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
> > description
> >
> > Thanks
> > Amareshwari
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <
> dsetrakyan@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Apache Incubator,
> > >
> > > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> > consensus
> > > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > > graduation to TLP.
> > >
> > > Vote thread:
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> > >
> > > Summary of the vote results:
> > > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> > >
> > > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > > 14. Milap Wadwa
> > >
> > > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> > >
> > > Below is our proposed resolution:
> > >
> > > Thank you
> > > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> > >
> > > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> > >
> > > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > > information between systems.
> >
>
> Should be:
>
> ---------
> "related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
> integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and transacting
> on large-scale data sets in real-time"
> --------
>
> >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > > Foundation; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > > between systems and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > > Apache Ignite Project:
> > >
> > > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> > >
> > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > > and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> > >
> > > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > > Project are hereafter discharged.
> > >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <am...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> and managed flow of information between systems."
>
> I dont see any such on project website -
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> .
> You might want to correct it.
>
Yup, copy-n-paste never works :) Corrected below.
>
> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
> description
>
> Thanks
> Amareshwari
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Apache Incubator,
> >
> > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> consensus
> > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > graduation to TLP.
> >
> > Vote thread:
> >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >
> > Summary of the vote results:
> > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >
> > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > 14. Milap Wadwa
> >
> > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >
> > Below is our proposed resolution:
> >
> > Thank you
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >
> > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > information between systems.
>
Should be:
---------
"related to delivering an In-Memory Data Fabric - a high-performance,
integrated and distributed in-memory platform for computing and transacting
on large-scale data sets in real-time"
--------
>
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > between systems and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > Apache Ignite Project:
> >
> > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > Project are hereafter discharged.
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 03:25AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> On 23.07.2015 23:42, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> > I think it had more caustic properties. Or the correct spelling is cos'tic?
> >
> > I never could tell them apart...
>
> Alright, that's enough. From senseless bean-counting to playground
> fights, this thread is becoming a bit off-putting.
Sorry, I agree - the last one was over the board for sure. Apologies!
> -- Brane
>
>
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:26PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >> Your comment came across as antagonistic.
> >>
> >> Nuff said.
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >> Services and Retail & Trade
> >> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well, you made a fact-less observation, and I called you on it. How exactly
> >>> is it insulting? Which part of CoC has been violated?
> >>>
> >>> Cos
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:04PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> >>>> Konstantin,
> >>>>
> >>>> Your remark is insulting and uncalled for. Please refrain from such
> >>> actions
> >>>> and apply some people skills in line with the code of conduct of the ASF.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Pierre Smits
> >>>>
> >>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> >>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> >>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> >>>> Services and Retail & Trade
> >>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> >>>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <
> >>> pierre.smits@gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more
> >>>>> regarding
> >>>>>>> building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory
> >>> review of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements
> >>> of
> >>>>>>> organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc
> >>>>> changes/mentor
> >>>>>>> changes).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
> >>>>>>
> >>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
> >>>>> See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4
> >>>>> message"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cos
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
>
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>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
wrote:
> If after this lengthy thread, Ignite's Mentors remain persuaded that
> it's time to graduate, I hope that others will weigh that carefully.
>
This is a typically wise comment from Marvin. The mentors judgement does
deserve strong consideration.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> Alright, that's enough. From senseless bean-counting to playground
> fights, this thread is becoming a bit off-putting.
Thanks for answering so many questions at length, Brane.
I think these graduation discussions on general@incubator are most
fruitful when we defer to the judgment of the podling's Mentors.
Raising issues that the Mentors may not have considered is helpful;
disputing the assessment of Mentors who have put in the time over many
months watching the podling develop, perhaps less so. (Unless the
Mentors have some affiliation or conflict of interest which justifies
increased scrutiny.)
If after this lengthy thread, Ignite's Mentors remain persuaded that
it's time to graduate, I hope that others will weigh that carefully.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 23.07.2015 23:42, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> I think it had more caustic properties. Or the correct spelling is cos'tic?
>
> I never could tell them apart...
Alright, that's enough. From senseless bean-counting to playground
fights, this thread is becoming a bit off-putting.
-- Brane
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:26PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>> Your comment came across as antagonistic.
>>
>> Nuff said.
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>> Services and Retail & Trade
>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, you made a fact-less observation, and I called you on it. How exactly
>>> is it insulting? Which part of CoC has been violated?
>>>
>>> Cos
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:04PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
>>>> Konstantin,
>>>>
>>>> Your remark is insulting and uncalled for. Please refrain from such
>>> actions
>>>> and apply some people skills in line with the code of conduct of the ASF.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
>>>> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
>>>> Based Manufacturing, Professional
>>>> Services and Retail & Trade
>>>> http://www.orrtiz.com
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <
>>> pierre.smits@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more
>>>>> regarding
>>>>>>> building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory
>>> review of
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements
>>> of
>>>>>>> organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc
>>>>> changes/mentor
>>>>>>> changes).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
>>>>>>
>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
>>>>> See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4
>>>>> message"
>>>>>
>>>>> Cos
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
I think it had more caustic properties. Or the correct spelling is cos'tic?
I never could tell them apart...
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:26PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Your comment came across as antagonistic.
>
> Nuff said.
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Well, you made a fact-less observation, and I called you on it. How exactly
> > is it insulting? Which part of CoC has been violated?
> >
> > Cos
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:04PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > > Konstantin,
> > >
> > > Your remark is insulting and uncalled for. Please refrain from such
> > actions
> > > and apply some people skills in line with the code of conduct of the ASF.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Pierre Smits
> > >
> > > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > > Services and Retail & Trade
> > > http://www.orrtiz.com
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <
> > pierre.smits@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more
> > > > regarding
> > > > > > building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory
> > review of
> > > > the
> > > > > > mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements
> > of
> > > > > > organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc
> > > > changes/mentor
> > > > > > changes).
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
> > > >
> > > > See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4
> > > > message"
> > > >
> > > > Cos
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Your comment came across as antagonistic.
Nuff said.
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:23 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> Well, you made a fact-less observation, and I called you on it. How exactly
> is it insulting? Which part of CoC has been violated?
>
> Cos
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:04PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> > Konstantin,
> >
> > Your remark is insulting and uncalled for. Please refrain from such
> actions
> > and apply some people skills in line with the code of conduct of the ASF.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Pierre Smits
> >
> > *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> > Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> > Based Manufacturing, Professional
> > Services and Retail & Trade
> > http://www.orrtiz.com
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <
> pierre.smits@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more
> > > regarding
> > > > > building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory
> review of
> > > the
> > > > > mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements
> of
> > > > > organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc
> > > changes/mentor
> > > > > changes).
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
> > > >
> > >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
> > >
> > > See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4
> > > message"
> > >
> > > Cos
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> > >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Well, you made a fact-less observation, and I called you on it. How exactly
is it insulting? Which part of CoC has been violated?
Cos
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:04PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> Konstantin,
>
> Your remark is insulting and uncalled for. Please refrain from such actions
> and apply some people skills in line with the code of conduct of the ASF.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more
> > regarding
> > > > building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of
> > the
> > > > mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
> > > > organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc
> > changes/mentor
> > > > changes).
> > > >
> > >
> > > New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
> > >
> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
> >
> > See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4
> > message"
> >
> > Cos
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Konstantin,
Your remark is insulting and uncalled for. Please refrain from such actions
and apply some people skills in line with the code of conduct of the ASF.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 8:53 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more
> regarding
> > > building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of
> the
> > > mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
> > > organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc
> changes/mentor
> > > changes).
> > >
> >
> > New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
>
> See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4
> message"
>
> Cos
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 10:16AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more regarding
> > building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of the
> > mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
> > organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc changes/mentor
> > changes).
> >
>
> New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
See the keyword here is 'cursory review' which means "glanced at <= 4 message"
Cos
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:31 AM, Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more regarding
> building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of the
> mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
> organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc changes/mentor
> changes).
>
New committers were announced on the dev list, here is the thread:
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/new-committers-td1221.html
D.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 03:31PM, Pierre Smits wrote:
> When we're talking about this podling having gained 'committers many from
> outside the company that donated the code', I wonder who we are talking
> about.
>
> The reports to the IPMC show only numbers (3 in March 2015) and no names.
> And for what it is worth, the June 2015 report shows a link (
> https://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community.html#list) that is pointing
> nowhere. I assume that it should have been this page:
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html#people.
>
> So we have (per today):
>
> - http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#ignite , aka ASF
> list,
> - http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite , aka Incubator list,
> - http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html#people
> (showing affiliation), aka podling list
>
> And there are discrepancies between the pages. E.g.
>
> - http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite shows Ryan Rawson as a
> committer, but is not in
> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#ignite
>
> If we substract the mentors (4 according to
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite, though we can argue whether
> Henry Saputra should also be in there as he is listed in the March 2015
> report to the IPMC as one of the report signers) from any list, we see the
> following changes:
>
> 1. Rayn Rawson (external, Apache Drill committer),
> 1. Incubator list
Rayn evidently didn't have time/resources to participate in the incubation as
initially proposed. That's why he's not in the authz template nor in the
resolution draft.
What's the point of this list again?
> 2. Sergey Khisamov (external - Fitech Source),
> 1. ASF list
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 3. Ilya Sterin (external - ChronoTrack),
> 1. ASF list,
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 4. Evans Ye (external - TrendMicro),
> 1. ASF list,
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 5. Ognen Duzlevski (external - Shoutlet),
> 1. ASF list,
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 6. Gianfrano Murador (external - Engiweb Security)
> 1. ASF list
> 2. Incubator list
> 3. podling list
>
> Adding 5 or 6 new committers isn't many. That is a start (regarding
> diversity). It for sure doesn't scream independence, when the majority (of
> committers, intended PMC members) is affiliated to one company.
>
> As for building the community of the podling, a mentor has the
> responsibility to keep tabs on contributions to ensure that everything goes
> according to the policies of the ASF, of the incubator and of the podling
> and assess (together with the community) everything whether it is in line
> with those policies. And report.
>
> As examples:
>
> - Statements (on podling pages re StackOverflow, or on external fora,
> e.g. Nabble) that questions can be raised via those media, isn't in line
> with how contributions to an ASF project (or podling) should be done. ASF
> mailing lists are the primary source for non-JIRA (including code patches)
> / non-wiki contributions. External sources are a nicety, but unreliable
> when it comes to feeding back into the ASF mailing lists or identifying
> active contributors or assessing potential additions to list of the
> privileged few;
> - Community pages should reflect how the on-boarding process is,
> including pointing out/stressing that an iCLA is required (when
> contributing anything above the level of question or comment);
iCLA requirement is foundation wide, Pierre. Are you getting back to the point
of by-laws again? Please don't
> - Committed non-privileged contributors (at least those who have
> registered an iCLA) should be listed in the pages of the podling, in order
> to assess who (beyond committers) are enabled to make changes to e.g. wiki
> pages, and who are eligible for commit privileges.
Is it a requirement or just something you're making up?
> And diversity is not only about the aspect of affiliation. It is also about
> having (privileged) contributors of another kind other than just those who
> contribute code changes (or register with JIRA). The pages of the podling
> should reflect such. And mentors should point that out to the community of
Again, is it some of your own wishes? If not, I'd apprecite a prooflink ;)
Otherwise we can safely skip over the rest of it.
> the podling. Otherwise the podling might imply (through its pages) that the
> other kind of contributors aren't welcome, and/or that principles of the
> ASF (e.g. 'All contributions are equal', 'Contributions buys privileges')
> aren't applicable in the podling.
Are you saying that these horrible things are practiced in the Ignite podling?
Cause if you aren't saying that explicitely then I am completely lost in the
purpose of this verbiage.
> Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more regarding
> building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of the
> mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
> organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc changes/mentor
> changes).
Perhaps, you need to complement your investigation with cursory review of the
general@ list where the announcements were made.
Cos
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 23.07.2015 15:31, Pierre Smits wrote:
> When we're talking about this podling having gained 'committers many from
> outside the company that donated the code', I wonder who we are talking
> about.
>
> The reports to the IPMC show only numbers (3 in March 2015) and no names.
> And for what it is worth, the June 2015 report shows a link (
> https://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community.html#list) that is pointing
> nowhere. I assume that it should have been this page:
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html#people.
>
> So we have (per today):
>
> - http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#ignite , aka ASF
> list,
> - http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite , aka Incubator list,
> - http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html#people
> (showing affiliation), aka podling list
>
> And there are discrepancies between the pages. E.g.
>
> - http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite shows Ryan Rawson as a
> committer, but is not in
> http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#ignite
So there are discrepancies; so what? They'll be fixed eventually, but I
hope you're not implying that a typo somewhere is a barrier to graduation.
> If we substract the mentors (4 according to
> http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite, though we can argue whether
> Henry Saputra should also be in there as he is listed in the March 2015
> report to the IPMC as one of the report signers) from any list, we see the
> following changes:
>
> 1. Rayn Rawson (external, Apache Drill committer),
> 1. Incubator list
Ryan is on the list because he's mentioned as an initial commiter in the
original Ignite proposal
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/IgniteProposal. He's certainly not in
the authz template.
This seems to be the only discrepancy; we have to get to the bottom of
that. But I'll point out that maintaining the Incubator list is not the
responsibility of the podling.
> 2. Sergey Khisamov (external - Fitech Source),
> 1. ASF list
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 3. Ilya Sterin (external - ChronoTrack),
> 1. ASF list,
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 4. Evans Ye (external - TrendMicro),
> 1. ASF list,
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 5. Ognen Duzlevski (external - Shoutlet),
> 1. ASF list,
> 2. Incubator list,
> 3. podling list
> 6. Gianfrano Murador (external - Engiweb Security)
> 1. ASF list
> 2. Incubator list
> 3. podling list
>
> Adding 5 or 6 new committers isn't many. That is a start (regarding
> diversity). It for sure doesn't scream independence, when the majority (of
> committers, intended PMC members) is affiliated to one company.
We're back to bean counting. How many committers, do you think, is
"enough" and why? I find it more than enough. By the way, if you're
going to be nitpicking, do it right and mention that Evans Ye is a
Bigtop committer.
> As for building the community of the podling, a mentor has the
> responsibility to keep tabs on contributions to ensure that everything goes
> according to the policies of the ASF, of the incubator and of the podling
> and assess (together with the community) everything whether it is in line
> with those policies. And report.
>
> As examples:
>
> - Statements (on podling pages re StackOverflow, or on external fora,
> e.g. Nabble) that questions can be raised via those media, isn't in line
> with how contributions to an ASF project (or podling) should be done. ASF
> mailing lists are the primary source for non-JIRA (including code patches)
> / non-wiki contributions. External sources are a nicety, but unreliable
> when it comes to feeding back into the ASF mailing lists or identifying
> active contributors or assessing potential additions to list of the
> privileged few;
Nonsense. It's perfectly fine to follow SO etc. for user questions and
to tell users that such external forums are being followed by community
member. A question from a user is not a contribution.
> - Community pages should reflect how the on-boarding process is,
> including pointing out/stressing that an iCLA is required (when
> contributing anything above the level of question or comment);
As I said above, a question is not a contribution. And it is not true
that an ICLA is required for "anything about the level of question or
comment." I suggest you go and read http://www.apache.org/licenses/
again before making such statements.
Specifically, it's perfectly OK to accept patches from people who've not
signed an ICLA as long as these patches are small and/or trivial.
> - Committed non-privileged contributors (at least those who have
> registered an iCLA) should be listed in the pages of the podling, in order
> to assess who (beyond committers) are enabled to make changes to e.g. wiki
> pages, and who are eligible for commit privileges.
I suggest you do not not confuse your opinion with actual graduation
requirements. Nothing in our policy says how or if a podling should
track potential committers. It's certainly not a podling's (or a TLP's)
task to track ICLA contributions; that's the domain of secretary@a.o.
> And diversity is not only about the aspect of affiliation.
Exactly!
> It is also about
> having (privileged) contributors of another kind other than just those who
> contribute code changes (or register with JIRA).
You mean about NOT having such contributors
> The pages of the podling should reflect such.
That's your opinion again. Evidently you're leaning towards a
bureaucratic keep-lists-of-everything approach. Whilst such an approach
is valid, it's by no means required.
> And mentors should point that out to the community of
> the podling. Otherwise the podling might imply (through its pages) that the
> other kind of contributors aren't welcome, and/or that principles of the
> ASF (e.g. 'All contributions are equal', 'Contributions buys privileges')
> aren't applicable in the podling.
Well, what's your point? If you're saying that the Ignite community is
doing this wrong, you really should point out specific cases. If you're
just talking about generalities, I'd appreciate your doing that on a
different thread.
> Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more regarding
> building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of the
> mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
> organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc changes/mentor
> changes).
Please note that discussions and votes about new committers happen on
the private list, which you've obviously not taken a look at. I see no
reason or requirement to announce new committers on the dev@ list,
especially as all committers are (or should be) also PPMC members and
follow the private list, too.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
When we're talking about this podling having gained 'committers many from
outside the company that donated the code', I wonder who we are talking
about.
The reports to the IPMC show only numbers (3 in March 2015) and no names.
And for what it is worth, the June 2015 report shows a link (
https://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community.html#list) that is pointing
nowhere. I assume that it should have been this page:
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html#people.
So we have (per today):
- http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#ignite , aka ASF
list,
- http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite , aka Incubator list,
- http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html#people
(showing affiliation), aka podling list
And there are discrepancies between the pages. E.g.
- http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite shows Ryan Rawson as a
committer, but is not in
http://people.apache.org/committers-by-project.html#ignite
If we substract the mentors (4 according to
http://incubator.apache.org/projects/ignite, though we can argue whether
Henry Saputra should also be in there as he is listed in the March 2015
report to the IPMC as one of the report signers) from any list, we see the
following changes:
1. Rayn Rawson (external, Apache Drill committer),
1. Incubator list
2. Sergey Khisamov (external - Fitech Source),
1. ASF list
2. Incubator list,
3. podling list
3. Ilya Sterin (external - ChronoTrack),
1. ASF list,
2. Incubator list,
3. podling list
4. Evans Ye (external - TrendMicro),
1. ASF list,
2. Incubator list,
3. podling list
5. Ognen Duzlevski (external - Shoutlet),
1. ASF list,
2. Incubator list,
3. podling list
6. Gianfrano Murador (external - Engiweb Security)
1. ASF list
2. Incubator list
3. podling list
Adding 5 or 6 new committers isn't many. That is a start (regarding
diversity). It for sure doesn't scream independence, when the majority (of
committers, intended PMC members) is affiliated to one company.
As for building the community of the podling, a mentor has the
responsibility to keep tabs on contributions to ensure that everything goes
according to the policies of the ASF, of the incubator and of the podling
and assess (together with the community) everything whether it is in line
with those policies. And report.
As examples:
- Statements (on podling pages re StackOverflow, or on external fora,
e.g. Nabble) that questions can be raised via those media, isn't in line
with how contributions to an ASF project (or podling) should be done. ASF
mailing lists are the primary source for non-JIRA (including code patches)
/ non-wiki contributions. External sources are a nicety, but unreliable
when it comes to feeding back into the ASF mailing lists or identifying
active contributors or assessing potential additions to list of the
privileged few;
- Community pages should reflect how the on-boarding process is,
including pointing out/stressing that an iCLA is required (when
contributing anything above the level of question or comment);
- Committed non-privileged contributors (at least those who have
registered an iCLA) should be listed in the pages of the podling, in order
to assess who (beyond committers) are enabled to make changes to e.g. wiki
pages, and who are eligible for commit privileges.
And diversity is not only about the aspect of affiliation. It is also about
having (privileged) contributors of another kind other than just those who
contribute code changes (or register with JIRA). The pages of the podling
should reflect such. And mentors should point that out to the community of
the podling. Otherwise the podling might imply (through its pages) that the
other kind of contributors aren't welcome, and/or that principles of the
ASF (e.g. 'All contributions are equal', 'Contributions buys privileges')
aren't applicable in the podling.
Apart from the above, the podling could and should do a bit more regarding
building an open, transparent project. Having done a cursory review of the
mailing list archives of the podling I have found no announcements of
organisational changes (e.g. adding the new committer/ppmc changes/mentor
changes).
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 22.07.2015 22:10, Pierre Smits wrote:
> @Branko: are referring to TEZ in your last posting, or Ignite?
I'm a mentor for Ignite; this thread is about Ignite; of course I'm
talking about Ignite.
> If you are talking about ignite, have a look at:
> http://markmail.org/search/incubator.ignite+list:org.apache.ignite.dev and
> http://markmail.org/search/incubator.ignite+list:org.apache.ignite.user and
> check out the 'Who sent it' overviews of each and compare that to the list
> of names (and affiliations). in
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html
I frankly don't know what you're talking about. Are you telling me to
review the mailing list traffic and verify that anyone who ever sent a
mail to the lists is mentioned as a contributor? Are you saying that the
correctness of the contributor list is a graduation requirement?
> Then you have the basis for assessing how well the podling has been doing
> the community building aspect and embedding diversity and independence
> during the incubation phase up to now.
Having been a pretty nitpicking mentor, I'm well aware how the community
has been doing, thanks. And I'll restate my opinion that it's been doing
amazingly well. Not only has it gained committers many from outside the
company that donated the code, they've also established working
relationships with other ASF projects that can be integrated with
Ignite. In light of this, anyone who persists in saying that the
community is not open and diverse enough had better come up with some
hard data corroborating that.
-- Brane
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
> Services & Solutions for Cloud-
> Based Manufacturing, Professional
> Services and Retail & Trade
> http://www.orrtiz.com
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 21.07.2015 21:04, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
>>> this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming
>> that
>>> the 37% are actually active, that is).
>> Indeed. And yes, they're active; that's easily established by reading
>> the dev@ list, commit log and Jira log.
>>
>> I was quite surprised by how quickly the project got contributors from
>> "outside", and anyone who takes the trouble to actually look at how the
>> community operates will find that it is very helpful and receptive. I
>> wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few TPLs and even recently
>> graduated podlings that could take the Ignite community as an example
>> rather than the other way around.
>>
>> I suggest that everyone who doubts that this is an "open and diverse
>> community" should go and read the mailing list archives for the last few
>> months or so instead of making uninformed statements based on some
>> incidental numbers. If, on the other hand, you prefer running the IPMC
>> using statistics instead of facts, you could at least have made the
>> effort to look at the trends instead of a point-in-time snapshot.
>>
>> -- Brane
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
@Branko: are referring to TEZ in your last posting, or Ignite?
If you are talking about ignite, have a look at:
http://markmail.org/search/incubator.ignite+list:org.apache.ignite.dev and
http://markmail.org/search/incubator.ignite+list:org.apache.ignite.user and
check out the 'Who sent it' overviews of each and compare that to the list
of names (and affiliations). in
http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/resources.html
Then you have the basis for assessing how well the podling has been doing
the community building aspect and embedding diversity and independence
during the incubation phase up to now.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 9:14 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 21.07.2015 21:04, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
> > this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming
> that
> > the 37% are actually active, that is).
>
> Indeed. And yes, they're active; that's easily established by reading
> the dev@ list, commit log and Jira log.
>
> I was quite surprised by how quickly the project got contributors from
> "outside", and anyone who takes the trouble to actually look at how the
> community operates will find that it is very helpful and receptive. I
> wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few TPLs and even recently
> graduated podlings that could take the Ignite community as an example
> rather than the other way around.
>
> I suggest that everyone who doubts that this is an "open and diverse
> community" should go and read the mailing list archives for the last few
> months or so instead of making uninformed statements based on some
> incidental numbers. If, on the other hand, you prefer running the IPMC
> using statistics instead of facts, you could at least have made the
> effort to look at the trends instead of a point-in-time snapshot.
>
> -- Brane
>
>
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression of
> a split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following the
> Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least) difficult
> to decipher.
> >
> > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx cases
> that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me that
> development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> >
> > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of
> developers, I think they need to make their commits more transparent to
> match the excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> >
> >
>
> The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
> for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> hosted at the ASF.
>
Let me clarify this.
Denis is a GridGain employee and, apart from Ignite, he also works on
GridGain product fixing various issues. At the end of the day he sent an
email notifying other GridGain team members about the work he has done and
by accident sent it to the dev list. This has nothing to do with the Ignite
project and we do not maintain any separate Jiras for the Ignite project.
As far as Ignite project is concerned, all Ignite work is being done in the
open and all the issues/questions related to the Ignite are discussed on
the dev list.
>
> Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
> about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
>
There are certainly tickets like that, but most of them were early in the
incubation process. As we started learning the Apache way, the Jira
communication has significantly improved and most tickets have relatively
good commentary and description. If you find anything to the contrary, it
is definitely not the norm.
For example, I have looked through the ticket flow for the past several
days and most of them have comments. Here are some examples:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-79
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1100
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1137
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1097
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1131
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1106
etc.
Also, there are some tickets that are self explanatory and do not require
explanation (you can grasp the meaning from the title). Case in hand is
this ticket: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1095 . Granted
some commentary would not hurt and I will advise for that on the dev list,
but it is clear that the ticket has been reviewed without comments and
closed.
Also, keep in mind that every ticket is worked on in a separate branch, and
every branch is named consistently after the ticket. Some reviews happen in
the branch, and that is why not every ticket has a patch attached to it.
This is documented on the website and Wiki:
https://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/contribute.html#contribute
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/How+to+Contribute
Additionally, all the discussions about any issue occurring throughout
working on the ticket usually take place on the dev list:
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Unstructured-object-format-td1685.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/IGNITE-950-new-marshaller-mode-preliminary-review-td1732.html
etc...
>
> I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
> some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> development process.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
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>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 09:08PM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> On 29.07.2015 19:51, Greg Stein wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 2015 12:45 PM, "Konstantin Boudnik" <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 12:25PM, Greg Stein wrote:
> >>> On Jul 29, 2015 11:37 AM, "Branko Čibej" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>> On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> >>>>>> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks
> > issues, but
> >>>>>> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the
> >>> IPMC
> >>>>>> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look
> >>> like.
> >>>>> Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
> >>>>> community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so
> > they
> >>>>> can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe
> > it's
> >>>>> OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
> >>>>> community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself
> > with
> >>>>> new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
> >>>> Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
> >>>> to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
> >>>> better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
> >>>> discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible
> > preference
> >>>> for RTC, it seems to be going well.
> >>> I always translate RTC as "we don't trust you, so somebody else must
> >>> approve anything you do."
> >>>
> >>> To me, that is a lousy basis for creating a community. Trust and peer
> >>> respect should be the basis, which implies CTR. I have seen many excuses
> >>> for RTC, but they all are just window dressing over mistrust.
> >> While I tend to agree with you, it worth noting that there's a whole
> > bunch of
> >> TLPs sticking to RTC. So, this data point doesn't reflect on the podling
> > in
> >> question.
> > And POW!! There is one excuse on display already :-P
> >
> > "But others do it."
>
> How 'bout I propose a board resolution forbidding RTC at the ASF for
> mainline development? :)
[popcorn time...]
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 29.07.2015 19:51, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Jul 29, 2015 12:45 PM, "Konstantin Boudnik" <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 12:25PM, Greg Stein wrote:
>>> On Jul 29, 2015 11:37 AM, "Branko Čibej" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
>>>>>> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks
> issues, but
>>>>>> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the
>>> IPMC
>>>>>> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look
>>> like.
>>>>> Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
>>>>> community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so
> they
>>>>> can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe
> it's
>>>>> OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
>>>>> community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself
> with
>>>>> new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
>>>> Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
>>>> to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
>>>> better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
>>>> discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible
> preference
>>>> for RTC, it seems to be going well.
>>> I always translate RTC as "we don't trust you, so somebody else must
>>> approve anything you do."
>>>
>>> To me, that is a lousy basis for creating a community. Trust and peer
>>> respect should be the basis, which implies CTR. I have seen many excuses
>>> for RTC, but they all are just window dressing over mistrust.
>> While I tend to agree with you, it worth noting that there's a whole
> bunch of
>> TLPs sticking to RTC. So, this data point doesn't reflect on the podling
> in
>> question.
> And POW!! There is one excuse on display already :-P
>
> "But others do it."
How 'bout I propose a board resolution forbidding RTC at the ASF for
mainline development? :)
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 29, 2015 12:45 PM, "Konstantin Boudnik" <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 12:25PM, Greg Stein wrote:
> > On Jul 29, 2015 11:37 AM, "Branko Čibej" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> > > >> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks
issues, but
> > > >> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the
> > IPMC
> > > >> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look
> > like.
> > > > Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
> > > > community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so
they
> > > > can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe
it's
> > > > OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
> > > > community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself
with
> > > > new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
> > >
> > > Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
> > > to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
> > >
> > > Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
> > > better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
> > > discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible
preference
> > > for RTC, it seems to be going well.
> >
> > I always translate RTC as "we don't trust you, so somebody else must
> > approve anything you do."
> >
> > To me, that is a lousy basis for creating a community. Trust and peer
> > respect should be the basis, which implies CTR. I have seen many excuses
> > for RTC, but they all are just window dressing over mistrust.
>
> While I tend to agree with you, it worth noting that there's a whole
bunch of
> TLPs sticking to RTC. So, this data point doesn't reflect on the podling
in
> question.
And POW!! There is one excuse on display already :-P
"But others do it."
-g
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 12:25PM, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Jul 29, 2015 11:37 AM, "Branko Čibej" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> > >> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks issues, but
> > >> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the
> IPMC
> > >> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look
> like.
> > > Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
> > > community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so they
> > > can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe it's
> > > OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
> > > community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself with
> > > new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
> >
> > Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
> > to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
> >
> > Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
> > better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
> > discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible preference
> > for RTC, it seems to be going well.
>
> I always translate RTC as "we don't trust you, so somebody else must
> approve anything you do."
>
> To me, that is a lousy basis for creating a community. Trust and peer
> respect should be the basis, which implies CTR. I have seen many excuses
> for RTC, but they all are just window dressing over mistrust.
While I tend to agree with you, it worth noting that there's a whole bunch of
TLPs sticking to RTC. So, this data point doesn't reflect on the podling in
question.
Cos
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:19PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 09:29AM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Looks like now we can put "git branch deletion data loss" fiction to
> > rest.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think that I am willing to say that the entirely reasonable git branch
> > > detail loss QUESTION has been answered.
> > >
> > > I don't think that recasting it as a fiction is helpful because it tends
> > to
> > > polarize the conversation by implying that the question was made up as
> > some
> > > sort of propaganda ploy that had to be defeated by righteous opponents.
> >
> > No implications of a propaganda ploy, Ted - sorry if it looked that way.
> > However, stories about how one thinks a software application should work is
> > exactly that - a fiction ;)
> >
>
> Cos,
>
> I am basing my questions on comments you made earlier [1]. To wit:
>
> After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> > questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> > being properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
>
>
> My reading of your meaning here is that histories are expected to be
> squashed, thus losing historical detail.
'histories are expected to be squashed' before the merge != 'existing
histories of the shared branches are expected to be squashed' I guess we fell
into the proverbial email-pit of semantical loss.
> So this isn't a fiction, nor am I uninformed about how git works. This is
> about questions that were raised based on how presumably well-informed
> insiders describe the process combined with an examination of recent JIRA's
> and the mailing list.
>
> As a side issue, I don't think that it helps to describe the other
> participants in a conversation with heavily loaded terms and phrases like
> "fiction" or "stories" or "how one thinks ... application should work".
> Please credit other people in this conversation with good intent and with
> technical competence. There are real questions being discussed here and
> distracting the conversation from the content-rich answers that can resolve
> those questions isn't helpful.
Wasn't aiming to hurt anyone, Ted - see above ;) Besides, 'fiction' isn't a
lewd word, last time I've checked.
Cheers,
Cos
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
> On Jul 23, 2015, at 6:23 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> But before we go down that path I want to ask folks who have expressed factual
> concerns to chime in once more and confirm which of those weren't addressed
> yet, if possible.
I completely agree. Enumerating the remaining, unaddressed concerns would be good at this point. This thread is getting unwieldy.
-Taylor
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Taylor,
I agree with you - there's no rush in the graduating of course - the community
and the mentors were in the consensus that the project is ready for it.
However some of the points that lead to the perpetuation of the thread were
obvious non sequitur, like the "63%" one. The others were very valid. I
believe valid points were addressed as the discussion was happening.
I personally think that all real concerns are addressed and the community is
trending handsomely and healthy. Some of IPMC members might have different
impression - there's little we can do except of waiting for the later time
when _every single IPMC member_ is on board; running the vote will be
contradictory to the consensus building principle.
But before we go down that path I want to ask folks who have expressed factual
concerns to chime in once more and confirm which of those weren't addressed
yet, if possible.
With regards,
Cos
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 05:48PM, P. Taylor Goetz wrote:
> It seems to me that some valid concerns have been raised regarding Ignite’s
> readiness to graduate.
>
> Is there a rush for Ignite to graduate? If there is, and the reason for that
> rush is anything other than “the excitement and pride of becoming a TLP”,
> then it might be indicative of an additional problem.
>
> Would spending one or more additional monthly cycles in the incubator to
> address those concerns be a problem?
>
> I know when podlings graduate it reduces the load on the IPMC, but isn’t our
> goal to make sure podlings leave the nest ready to succeed and thrive within
> the bounds of the Apache Way?
>
> -Taylor
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 24.07.2015 00:03, Pierre Smits wrote:
> And we also have keep in mind that the project not only there for those
> with privileges. Focus on that subset of the community isn't building
> healthy, successful projects.
This is the second time on this thread that you've implied that there
are people with inappropriate privileges in the Ignite community. I've
asked you to name specific cases and got no response. If you have
evidence, bring it out. Otherwise stop with these unfounded insinuations.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Spending additional cycles in the incubation phase should never pose a
problem. Especially not with the number of IPMC members as high as it is.
It is more about doing the right thing, than the easy or the fast. It is
not a race, not a competition. And it shouldn't be about surpassing the
latest milestone or achievement (as in more graduated to TLP than last
period or shortest time spent in incubation). Remember, this phase exist to
build healthy ASF projects, where community is more important than code.
Rushing a podling through incubation leaves a taste like it is the other
way around.
And we also have keep in mind that the project not only there for those
with privileges. Focus on that subset of the community isn't building
healthy, successful projects.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:48 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <pt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems to me that some valid concerns have been raised regarding
> Ignite’s readiness to graduate.
>
> Is there a rush for Ignite to graduate? If there is, and the reason for
> that rush is anything other than “the excitement and pride of becoming a
> TLP”, then it might be indicative of an additional problem.
>
> Would spending one or more additional monthly cycles in the incubator to
> address those concerns be a problem?
>
> I know when podlings graduate it reduces the load on the IPMC, but isn’t
> our goal to make sure podlings leave the nest ready to succeed and thrive
> within the bounds of the Apache Way?
>
> -Taylor
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "P. Taylor Goetz" <pt...@gmail.com>.
It seems to me that some valid concerns have been raised regarding Ignite’s readiness to graduate.
Is there a rush for Ignite to graduate? If there is, and the reason for that rush is anything other than “the excitement and pride of becoming a TLP”, then it might be indicative of an additional problem.
Would spending one or more additional monthly cycles in the incubator to address those concerns be a problem?
I know when podlings graduate it reduces the load on the IPMC, but isn’t our goal to make sure podlings leave the nest ready to succeed and thrive within the bounds of the Apache Way?
-Taylor
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Jacques Le Roux <ja...@les7arts.com>.
Le 23/07/2015 21:19, Ted Dunning a écrit :
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 09:29AM, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> Looks like now we can put "git branch deletion data loss" fiction to
>> rest.
>>> I think that I am willing to say that the entirely reasonable git branch
>>> detail loss QUESTION has been answered.
>>>
>>> I don't think that recasting it as a fiction is helpful because it tends
>> to
>>> polarize the conversation by implying that the question was made up as
>> some
>>> sort of propaganda ploy that had to be defeated by righteous opponents.
>> No implications of a propaganda ploy, Ted - sorry if it looked that way.
>> However, stories about how one thinks a software application should work is
>> exactly that - a fiction ;)
>>
> Cos,
>
> I am basing my questions on comments you made earlier [1]. To wit:
>
> After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
>> questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
>> being
>> properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
>
> My reading of your meaning here is that histories are expected to be
> squashed, thus losing historical detail.
>
> So this isn't a fiction, nor am I uninformed about how git works. This is
> about questions that were raised based on how presumably well-informed
> insiders describe the process combined with an examination of recent JIRA's
> and the mailing list.
>
> As a side issue, I don't think that it helps to describe the other
> participants in a conversation with heavily loaded terms and phrases like
> "fiction" or "stories" or "how one thinks ... application should work".
> Please credit other people in this conversation with good intent and with
> technical competence. There are real questions being discussed here and
> distracting the conversation from the content-rich answers that can resolve
> those questions isn't helpful.
Texas style?
Jacques
>
>
> [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201507.mbox/%3C20150722231648.GU28615%40boudnik.org%3E
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:54 AM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 09:29AM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Looks like now we can put "git branch deletion data loss" fiction to
> rest.
> > >
> >
> > I think that I am willing to say that the entirely reasonable git branch
> > detail loss QUESTION has been answered.
> >
> > I don't think that recasting it as a fiction is helpful because it tends
> to
> > polarize the conversation by implying that the question was made up as
> some
> > sort of propaganda ploy that had to be defeated by righteous opponents.
>
> No implications of a propaganda ploy, Ted - sorry if it looked that way.
> However, stories about how one thinks a software application should work is
> exactly that - a fiction ;)
>
Cos,
I am basing my questions on comments you made earlier [1]. To wit:
After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> being
> properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
My reading of your meaning here is that histories are expected to be
squashed, thus losing historical detail.
So this isn't a fiction, nor am I uninformed about how git works. This is
about questions that were raised based on how presumably well-informed
insiders describe the process combined with an examination of recent JIRA's
and the mailing list.
As a side issue, I don't think that it helps to describe the other
participants in a conversation with heavily loaded terms and phrases like
"fiction" or "stories" or "how one thinks ... application should work".
Please credit other people in this conversation with good intent and with
technical competence. There are real questions being discussed here and
distracting the conversation from the content-rich answers that can resolve
those questions isn't helpful.
[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201507.mbox/%3C20150722231648.GU28615%40boudnik.org%3E
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 09:29AM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Looks like now we can put "git branch deletion data loss" fiction to rest.
> >
>
> I think that I am willing to say that the entirely reasonable git branch
> detail loss QUESTION has been answered.
>
> I don't think that recasting it as a fiction is helpful because it tends to
> polarize the conversation by implying that the question was made up as some
> sort of propaganda ploy that had to be defeated by righteous opponents.
No implications of a propaganda ploy, Ted - sorry if it looked that way.
However, stories about how one thinks a software application should work is
exactly that - a fiction ;)
Cos
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 07:31PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Branko,
>
> Let me preface this by my thought that I feel that the JIRA's are a
> valuable organizational tool in that I should be able to find the
> information on a particular issue there. The Hadoop or Zookeeper JIRA's,
> for instance, are often models of this. Issues are discussed, reviewed,
> dissected and finally a resolution is made.
>
> More comments in-line in a rather ruthlessly summarized quote:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> >
> > >>
> > >> The important question is whether the development process is open, not
> > >> whether some entries in Jira appear to have adequate comments.
> > > But, from what I can read in the comments about it, and from what I can
> > > see when I scan the tickets, lists, commits etc; The commits only refer
> > > to JIRA tickets and not discussions on the dev list, the JIRA tickets do
> > > not refer to anything, and the dev list does not refer to neither the
> > > commits IDs nor the JIRAs...so how exactly are we to interpret what's
> > > going on then, if it's all suddenly irrelevant?
> > >
> > > Open Source development is not just about publishing your code, it's
> > > also about making the development and decision process open and
> > > transparent, and in several cases, such as the ones Ted listed, it does
> > > not appear to be that way yet.
> > >
> > > I see that this issue has been acknowledged on the dev list by at least
> > > one member of the project, and while that is a positive response, I
> > > stand by my decision to withhold support for graduation till I am
> > > satisfied that this has been shown in a consistent manner across (most
> > > of) the board.
> >
> > There's a bit of an impedance mismatch here, I agree. I insist that Jira
> > is not relevant history.
>
>
> You may or may not claim that, but the fact that issue tracking is required
> to be on Apache controlled resources indicates a somewhat different
> result. Also, JIRA is often used as a way of putting comments onto the
> mailing list, while at the same time organizing them for ease in finding
> them.
>
> So JIRA may or may not be relevant history (and it certainly is relevant in
> many ASF projects), the fact is that I only used it as one source of
> information. I would be happy in finding discussions in any of the
> standard places, but I find that many issues seem to have essentially no
> discussion. There are comments about reviews that are done, but there is
> no record of those reviews.
>
>
>
>
> > Discussions do happen on the dev@ list, so the
> > problem must be in the commit messages.
>
>
> Hmm... I think I disagree.
>
> It is clear that some discussions happen on the mailing list, but it is
> also pretty clear from what I have seen so far that many discussions don't
> happen on the list. I can only judge by what I can see and from my
> examination of recently closed issues, I found no discussion of these
> issues on the dev mailing list.
>
> The fact that *some* issues are discussed does not lead to the conclusion
> that all design discussions are occur on or reflected onto the list. The
> fact that a random-ish sample of recent issues reveals no substantive
> discussion even though some of these issues seem to be worthy of discussion
> (race conditions and such) makes me think that there might well be
> substantial discussion going on somewhere else.
>
> What would make me happy is a comment on the JIRA which is then reflected
> on the mailing list of the form "Joe and I talked about this and it looks
> pretty simple" or "We talked about this as a group and we had the following
> suggestions which were all hooey so we are doing this".
>
> I don't see that happening. I see issue opened. Issue closed.
> Occasionally a "reviewed by" comment. All that is only on the JIRA and
> nothing appears on the mailing list.
>
>
> > ... Discussions happen on the
> > dev@ list but a Jira issue is raised for each every change, ever so
> > minor; the notification about the issue creation goes to the dev@ list,
> > the change is made, nobody objects and that's it. Hence, there doesn't
> > seem to be much correlation with all the JIra spam and dev@ discussions.
> >
>
> Could be.
>
>
> > First of all, it's not reasonable to expect a dev@ discussion for every
> > one-liner change; CTR rules. Next, it's not reasonable to open a Jira
> > issue for every one-liner change; that's simply a waste of time (and
> > leads to the kind of misunderstandings that we have on this thread).
> >
>
> I agree. But the changes I am seeing are not really one-liners. Or at
> least they are not exclusively one-liners.
>
>
> > I do insist that discussion of important issues and features does happen
> > on the dev@ list. The Jira tickets that are created as a result of those
> > discussions can easily be cross-referenced by a simple search in the
> > dev@ archives.
> >
>
> I have tried to find such.
>
> Can you provide some examples? I keep looking and citing the examples that
> I find, but none of them show the behavior that I would like to see.
>
>
>
> > My only recommendation here would be to use Jira only to track important
> > issues and to always write proper commit logs. The latter is an art that
> > takes years to learn ...
> >
>
> We seem to agree quite a lot in this. I think I have a lower tolerance and
> would like to see a JIRA on most changes, possibly annotated with
> "one-liner". Or a git message to this effect.
Thank you for the thoughtful exchange, gentlemen! JIRA or not - I agree that
decision making for things that matter can be improved. Here's one more
background point to help you to see the situation in a slightly different
light: for most of the original team English might or mightn't a communication
tool. You might find it hard to believe, but there are still places in the
world where software developers do not use English to communicate design ideas
to each other ;)
Hence, the discipline of meticulously writing down every verbal comment
verbally (in the mother tongue) takes time to be developed. And as has been
pointed out there's a huge improvement in this area that the community has
already undertaken. And it continues to get better literally by the day.
As has been said a number of times: the incubation is about teaching a new
community what it means to follow the Apache Way. It's not about hand-holding
and training in the JIRA, Bugzilla, or git. Did the community learn what it
means to develop the software in the open and follow the spirit of the
Foundation? As someone who was with the project for the long time I think the
answer is yes. At the same time I do recognize that there are things that
could be done better. But can anyone point me to an ideal Apache project?
Hadoop has been cites as an example of JIRA handling, but if you look around
you'll find tickets similar to HADOOP-12235, which has one human comment "+1
lgtm" and a bunch of CI integration comments.
Will we be reaching the graduation consensus today? It isn't even most
important. What is most important is if the IPMC wants to take on a role of
technical and development process arbiter and make all podlings to follow the
same set of guidelines, which still aren't clearly indicated as 'must to
follow' nor agreed on by the said body of the people.
Cos
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> Looks like now we can put "git branch deletion data loss" fiction to rest.
>
I think that I am willing to say that the entirely reasonable git branch
detail loss QUESTION has been answered.
I don't think that recasting it as a fiction is helpful because it tends to
polarize the conversation by implying that the question was made up as some
sort of propaganda ploy that had to be defeated by righteous opponents.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Thanks a bunch for the detailed explanation of how git object model works, Jochen!
Looks like now we can put "git branch deletion data loss" fiction to rest.
Cos
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 07:11AM, Jochen Theodorou wrote:
> Am 23.07.2015 05:13, schrieb Ted Dunning:
> >On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
> >valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
> >>that
> >>>seems to be left open ?
> >>>
> >>
> >>The identity of the committers is never lost (at least to my knowledge). We
> >>actually have the opposite problem of too many commits happening in
> >>different branches because of our branching policy which requires a
> >>separate branch for every ticket.
> >>
> >
> >How are they preserved when the bug branch is deleted as per guidelines?
>
> just to give the general idea and not claiming that the Ignite
> people do it like that.. normally what you do is the following:
>
> 1) create a bug-fix branch based on master
> 2) commit your changes to the bug-fix branch
> 3) test/verify by the community and CI
> 4) merge bug-fix branch to master
> 5) delete bug-fix branch
>
> In this process there is no loss of commits, the information stays
> in the master branch. In git you normally keep only the branches
> people work on, or you use tags.
>
> Step 4 can be done in multiple ways. Of course normally the first
> choice is the git based merge, but you can also work with a patch
> set (the author/date information is not lost by this) or cherry-pick
> (which is like duplicating the commit on another branch). branching
> off and merging again, can be seen in tools like for example gitk or
> with for example "git log --graph". Examples can for example be seen
> on http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1838873/visualizing-branch-topology-in-git
> using different tools. Noteworthy here is that normal commits are
> handled similar to branches. In other words, git does not really
> know a concept like a branch as it was with svn/cvs. Instead it is
> an elementary part of the system, that every commit has a parent and
> possibly a child and from this results a commit graph. A branch is
> only a commit noted as head. Deleting a branch thus means only to
> delete that meta information. And unlike CVS/SVN git is based on a
> database. Even if you do "git rm" to delete a file, it is still in
> the database and not removed from history.
>
> bye blackdrag
>
> --
> Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
> blog: http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Valentin Kulichenko <va...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 8:13 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
> > that
> > > seems to be left open ?
> > >
> >
> > The identity of the committers is never lost (at least to my knowledge).
> We
> > actually have the opposite problem of too many commits happening in
> > different branches because of our branching policy which requires a
> > separate branch for every ticket.
> >
>
> How are they preserved when the bug branch is deleted as per guidelines?
>
Branch is removed after it's merged to master. Merge process in Git implies
applying all commits made in branch one by one preserving the full history.
All these commits will be visible in master (including comments, authors,
timestamps, etc.).
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Jochen Theodorou <bl...@gmx.org>.
Am 23.07.2015 05:13, schrieb Ted Dunning:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
>> that
>>> seems to be left open ?
>>>
>>
>> The identity of the committers is never lost (at least to my knowledge). We
>> actually have the opposite problem of too many commits happening in
>> different branches because of our branching policy which requires a
>> separate branch for every ticket.
>>
>
> How are they preserved when the bug branch is deleted as per guidelines?
just to give the general idea and not claiming that the Ignite people do
it like that.. normally what you do is the following:
1) create a bug-fix branch based on master
2) commit your changes to the bug-fix branch
3) test/verify by the community and CI
4) merge bug-fix branch to master
5) delete bug-fix branch
In this process there is no loss of commits, the information stays in
the master branch. In git you normally keep only the branches people
work on, or you use tags.
Step 4 can be done in multiple ways. Of course normally the first choice
is the git based merge, but you can also work with a patch set (the
author/date information is not lost by this) or cherry-pick (which is
like duplicating the commit on another branch). branching off and
merging again, can be seen in tools like for example gitk or with for
example "git log --graph". Examples can for example be seen on
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1838873/visualizing-branch-topology-in-git
using different tools. Noteworthy here is that normal commits are
handled similar to branches. In other words, git does not really know a
concept like a branch as it was with svn/cvs. Instead it is an
elementary part of the system, that every commit has a parent and
possibly a child and from this results a commit graph. A branch is only
a commit noted as head. Deleting a branch thus means only to delete that
meta information. And unlike CVS/SVN git is based on a database. Even if
you do "git rm" to delete a file, it is still in the database and not
removed from history.
bye blackdrag
--
Jochen "blackdrag" Theodorou
blog: http://blackdragsview.blogspot.com/
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
> that
> > seems to be left open ?
> >
>
> The identity of the committers is never lost (at least to my knowledge). We
> actually have the opposite problem of too many commits happening in
> different branches because of our branching policy which requires a
> separate branch for every ticket.
>
How are they preserved when the bug branch is deleted as per guidelines?
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:25 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> Do all issues get discussed on the dev list? I would say we are very close
> to it. Yes, of course, there is some Skype communication given that the
> project is very complex and the team is distributed. But if you look on the
> dev list you will see that all (or close to all) of the discussions do
> find their way to the dev list and the community does participate very
> actively.
>
OK.
Let's take some examples combined from the JIRA I mentioned and the most
recently resolved JIRAs:
IGNITE-1134 - No hits on the dev list with this string. There is now one
comment on the JIRA (from 15 hours ago).
IGNITE-630 - Two comments during development, both disconnected and having
nothing to do with what the problem is or how it is solved. Nothing on the
mailing list as far as I can tell. 14 hours ago there were some benchmarks
posted and then 8 hours ago, the issue was closed.
IGNITE-1131 - One comment applied as the bug was fixed. I can't find any
mailing list discussion.
IGNITE-1109 - One cryptic comment, no description on the JIRA. No mailing
list comments as far as I can tell.
(woof, this takes a lot of work to track these down)
So can you see what I mean that it doesn't look like things are getting
discussed on the list?
My presumption is that this looks very different from your side of the
email chain. What is it that is causing us to have such different
impressions?
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 24.07.2015 04:11, Branko Čibej wrote:
> On 24.07.2015 03:41, Daniel Gruno wrote:
>> On 07/24/2015 03:22 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
>>> On 24.07.2015 01:25, Valentin Kulichenko wrote:
>>>> I do agree that our Jira handling could be better and believe that
>>>> community has already responded to these discussions and addressed some of
>>>> the raised concerns. The truth is that so far many Jira discussions have
>>>> happened on the dev list, including community members sending notifications
>>>> about starting and ending work on Jiras and discussing Jira issues on the
>>>> dev list as well. This was a preferred way selected by the community that
>>>> we followed. I do agree that Jiras should be updated better and will
>>>> encourage everyone to do so going forward.
>>> As a small reminder, evidently to IPMC members as well as podling
>>> committers: Jira is not the official archive of "what happened" on the
>>> project. Only the dev@ list is. There is no requirement for any project
>>> to use the ASF Jira instance; there's not even a requirement to use an
>>> issue tracker. Suddenly making the contents of tickets in Jira an issue
>>> for graduation is just a bit out of order IMNSHO.
>>>
>>> The important question is whether the development process is open, not
>>> whether some entries in Jira appear to have adequate comments.
>> But, from what I can read in the comments about it, and from what I can
>> see when I scan the tickets, lists, commits etc; The commits only refer
>> to JIRA tickets and not discussions on the dev list, the JIRA tickets do
>> not refer to anything, and the dev list does not refer to neither the
>> commits IDs nor the JIRAs...so how exactly are we to interpret what's
>> going on then, if it's all suddenly irrelevant?
>>
>> Open Source development is not just about publishing your code, it's
>> also about making the development and decision process open and
>> transparent, and in several cases, such as the ones Ted listed, it does
>> not appear to be that way yet.
>>
>> I see that this issue has been acknowledged on the dev list by at least
>> one member of the project, and while that is a positive response, I
>> stand by my decision to withhold support for graduation till I am
>> satisfied that this has been shown in a consistent manner across (most
>> of) the board.
> There's a bit of an impedance mismatch here, I agree. I insist that Jira
> is not relevant history. Discussions do happen on the dev@ list, so the
> problem must be in the commit messages. I've pointed out that these
> leave much to be desired. My diagnosis here is overuse of Jira; what we
> see here is a typical many-places problem: Discussions happen on the
> dev@ list but a Jira issue is raised for each every change, ever so
> minor; the notification about the issue creation goes to the dev@ list,
> the change is made, nobody objects and that's it. Hence, there doesn't
> seem to be much correlation with all the JIra spam and dev@ discussions.
>
> First of all, it's not reasonable to expect a dev@ discussion for every
> one-liner change; CTR rules. Next, it's not reasonable to open a Jira
> issue for every one-liner change; that's simply a waste of time (and
> leads to the kind of misunderstandings that we have on this thread).
>
> I do insist that discussion of important issues and features does happen
> on the dev@ list. The Jira tickets that are created as a result of those
> discussions can easily be cross-referenced by a simple search in the
> dev@ archives.
>
> My only recommendation here would be to use Jira only to track important
> issues and to always write proper commit logs. The latter is an art that
> takes years to learn ...
And, of course, the overarching question is whether implementing my
recommendation requires hand-holding by the Incubator. I don't think it
does.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 24.07.2015 04:31, Ted Dunning wrote:
>> There's a bit of an impedance mismatch here, I agree. I insist that Jira
>> is not relevant history.
>
> You may or may not claim that, but the fact that issue tracking is required
> to be on Apache controlled resources indicates a somewhat different
> result.
Correction: unlike source repositories, issue tracking is not required
to be on Apache controlled resources. There's no policy or bylaw that
requires that. This PMC has graduated at least one podling that doesn't
use an ASF-hosted issue tracker.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Branko,
Let me preface this by my thought that I feel that the JIRA's are a
valuable organizational tool in that I should be able to find the
information on a particular issue there. The Hadoop or Zookeeper JIRA's,
for instance, are often models of this. Issues are discussed, reviewed,
dissected and finally a resolution is made.
More comments in-line in a rather ruthlessly summarized quote:
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:11 PM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> The important question is whether the development process is open, not
> >> whether some entries in Jira appear to have adequate comments.
> > But, from what I can read in the comments about it, and from what I can
> > see when I scan the tickets, lists, commits etc; The commits only refer
> > to JIRA tickets and not discussions on the dev list, the JIRA tickets do
> > not refer to anything, and the dev list does not refer to neither the
> > commits IDs nor the JIRAs...so how exactly are we to interpret what's
> > going on then, if it's all suddenly irrelevant?
> >
> > Open Source development is not just about publishing your code, it's
> > also about making the development and decision process open and
> > transparent, and in several cases, such as the ones Ted listed, it does
> > not appear to be that way yet.
> >
> > I see that this issue has been acknowledged on the dev list by at least
> > one member of the project, and while that is a positive response, I
> > stand by my decision to withhold support for graduation till I am
> > satisfied that this has been shown in a consistent manner across (most
> > of) the board.
>
> There's a bit of an impedance mismatch here, I agree. I insist that Jira
> is not relevant history.
You may or may not claim that, but the fact that issue tracking is required
to be on Apache controlled resources indicates a somewhat different
result. Also, JIRA is often used as a way of putting comments onto the
mailing list, while at the same time organizing them for ease in finding
them.
So JIRA may or may not be relevant history (and it certainly is relevant in
many ASF projects), the fact is that I only used it as one source of
information. I would be happy in finding discussions in any of the
standard places, but I find that many issues seem to have essentially no
discussion. There are comments about reviews that are done, but there is
no record of those reviews.
> Discussions do happen on the dev@ list, so the
> problem must be in the commit messages.
Hmm... I think I disagree.
It is clear that some discussions happen on the mailing list, but it is
also pretty clear from what I have seen so far that many discussions don't
happen on the list. I can only judge by what I can see and from my
examination of recently closed issues, I found no discussion of these
issues on the dev mailing list.
The fact that *some* issues are discussed does not lead to the conclusion
that all design discussions are occur on or reflected onto the list. The
fact that a random-ish sample of recent issues reveals no substantive
discussion even though some of these issues seem to be worthy of discussion
(race conditions and such) makes me think that there might well be
substantial discussion going on somewhere else.
What would make me happy is a comment on the JIRA which is then reflected
on the mailing list of the form "Joe and I talked about this and it looks
pretty simple" or "We talked about this as a group and we had the following
suggestions which were all hooey so we are doing this".
I don't see that happening. I see issue opened. Issue closed.
Occasionally a "reviewed by" comment. All that is only on the JIRA and
nothing appears on the mailing list.
> ... Discussions happen on the
> dev@ list but a Jira issue is raised for each every change, ever so
> minor; the notification about the issue creation goes to the dev@ list,
> the change is made, nobody objects and that's it. Hence, there doesn't
> seem to be much correlation with all the JIra spam and dev@ discussions.
>
Could be.
> First of all, it's not reasonable to expect a dev@ discussion for every
> one-liner change; CTR rules. Next, it's not reasonable to open a Jira
> issue for every one-liner change; that's simply a waste of time (and
> leads to the kind of misunderstandings that we have on this thread).
>
I agree. But the changes I am seeing are not really one-liners. Or at
least they are not exclusively one-liners.
> I do insist that discussion of important issues and features does happen
> on the dev@ list. The Jira tickets that are created as a result of those
> discussions can easily be cross-referenced by a simple search in the
> dev@ archives.
>
I have tried to find such.
Can you provide some examples? I keep looking and citing the examples that
I find, but none of them show the behavior that I would like to see.
> My only recommendation here would be to use Jira only to track important
> issues and to always write proper commit logs. The latter is an art that
> takes years to learn ...
>
We seem to agree quite a lot in this. I think I have a lower tolerance and
would like to see a JIRA on most changes, possibly annotated with
"one-liner". Or a git message to this effect.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 24.07.2015 03:41, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> On 07/24/2015 03:22 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
>> On 24.07.2015 01:25, Valentin Kulichenko wrote:
>>> I do agree that our Jira handling could be better and believe that
>>> community has already responded to these discussions and addressed some of
>>> the raised concerns. The truth is that so far many Jira discussions have
>>> happened on the dev list, including community members sending notifications
>>> about starting and ending work on Jiras and discussing Jira issues on the
>>> dev list as well. This was a preferred way selected by the community that
>>> we followed. I do agree that Jiras should be updated better and will
>>> encourage everyone to do so going forward.
>>
>> As a small reminder, evidently to IPMC members as well as podling
>> committers: Jira is not the official archive of "what happened" on the
>> project. Only the dev@ list is. There is no requirement for any project
>> to use the ASF Jira instance; there's not even a requirement to use an
>> issue tracker. Suddenly making the contents of tickets in Jira an issue
>> for graduation is just a bit out of order IMNSHO.
>>
>> The important question is whether the development process is open, not
>> whether some entries in Jira appear to have adequate comments.
> But, from what I can read in the comments about it, and from what I can
> see when I scan the tickets, lists, commits etc; The commits only refer
> to JIRA tickets and not discussions on the dev list, the JIRA tickets do
> not refer to anything, and the dev list does not refer to neither the
> commits IDs nor the JIRAs...so how exactly are we to interpret what's
> going on then, if it's all suddenly irrelevant?
>
> Open Source development is not just about publishing your code, it's
> also about making the development and decision process open and
> transparent, and in several cases, such as the ones Ted listed, it does
> not appear to be that way yet.
>
> I see that this issue has been acknowledged on the dev list by at least
> one member of the project, and while that is a positive response, I
> stand by my decision to withhold support for graduation till I am
> satisfied that this has been shown in a consistent manner across (most
> of) the board.
There's a bit of an impedance mismatch here, I agree. I insist that Jira
is not relevant history. Discussions do happen on the dev@ list, so the
problem must be in the commit messages. I've pointed out that these
leave much to be desired. My diagnosis here is overuse of Jira; what we
see here is a typical many-places problem: Discussions happen on the
dev@ list but a Jira issue is raised for each every change, ever so
minor; the notification about the issue creation goes to the dev@ list,
the change is made, nobody objects and that's it. Hence, there doesn't
seem to be much correlation with all the JIra spam and dev@ discussions.
First of all, it's not reasonable to expect a dev@ discussion for every
one-liner change; CTR rules. Next, it's not reasonable to open a Jira
issue for every one-liner change; that's simply a waste of time (and
leads to the kind of misunderstandings that we have on this thread).
I do insist that discussion of important issues and features does happen
on the dev@ list. The Jira tickets that are created as a result of those
discussions can easily be cross-referenced by a simple search in the
dev@ archives.
My only recommendation here would be to use Jira only to track important
issues and to always write proper commit logs. The latter is an art that
takes years to learn ...
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 07/24/2015 03:22 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> On 24.07.2015 01:25, Valentin Kulichenko wrote:
>> I do agree that our Jira handling could be better and believe that
>> community has already responded to these discussions and addressed some of
>> the raised concerns. The truth is that so far many Jira discussions have
>> happened on the dev list, including community members sending notifications
>> about starting and ending work on Jiras and discussing Jira issues on the
>> dev list as well. This was a preferred way selected by the community that
>> we followed. I do agree that Jiras should be updated better and will
>> encourage everyone to do so going forward.
>
>
> As a small reminder, evidently to IPMC members as well as podling
> committers: Jira is not the official archive of "what happened" on the
> project. Only the dev@ list is. There is no requirement for any project
> to use the ASF Jira instance; there's not even a requirement to use an
> issue tracker. Suddenly making the contents of tickets in Jira an issue
> for graduation is just a bit out of order IMNSHO.
>
> The important question is whether the development process is open, not
> whether some entries in Jira appear to have adequate comments.
But, from what I can read in the comments about it, and from what I can
see when I scan the tickets, lists, commits etc; The commits only refer
to JIRA tickets and not discussions on the dev list, the JIRA tickets do
not refer to anything, and the dev list does not refer to neither the
commits IDs nor the JIRAs...so how exactly are we to interpret what's
going on then, if it's all suddenly irrelevant?
Open Source development is not just about publishing your code, it's
also about making the development and decision process open and
transparent, and in several cases, such as the ones Ted listed, it does
not appear to be that way yet.
I see that this issue has been acknowledged on the dev list by at least
one member of the project, and while that is a positive response, I
stand by my decision to withhold support for graduation till I am
satisfied that this has been shown in a consistent manner across (most
of) the board.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 24.07.2015 01:25, Valentin Kulichenko wrote:
> I do agree that our Jira handling could be better and believe that
> community has already responded to these discussions and addressed some of
> the raised concerns. The truth is that so far many Jira discussions have
> happened on the dev list, including community members sending notifications
> about starting and ending work on Jiras and discussing Jira issues on the
> dev list as well. This was a preferred way selected by the community that
> we followed. I do agree that Jiras should be updated better and will
> encourage everyone to do so going forward.
As a small reminder, evidently to IPMC members as well as podling
committers: Jira is not the official archive of "what happened" on the
project. Only the dev@ list is. There is no requirement for any project
to use the ASF Jira instance; there's not even a requirement to use an
issue tracker. Suddenly making the contents of tickets in Jira an issue
for graduation is just a bit out of order IMNSHO.
The important question is whether the development process is open, not
whether some entries in Jira appear to have adequate comments.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Valentin Kulichenko <va...@gmail.com>.
Hi Ted,
I think the main question here, is whether Ignite community fully following
the Apache Way, or in other words has an active meritocratic community
which is open and makes it easy for people to join.
In my opinion, absolutely Yes.
The project guidelines are fully documented on the website and Wiki,
guidelines on how to contribute and become a committer are documented as
well. All emails about joining the community and becoming a contributor are
answered in timely fashion [1]. In fact, Ignite has one of the easiest
barriers to become a committer - all you need to do is contribute at least
one patch to qualify [2].
[1]
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Regarding-contribution-to-Ignite-td1715.html
[2]
https://ignite.incubator.apache.org/community/contribute.html#become-committer
Is the community open or has some secret Jira or other types of dicussions?
I have been on the PPMC from the very beginning, and believe we now have
come a long way. I believe that everyone in the community, including old
and new members, have absolutely embraced the Apache Way. There are no
secret Jiras or secret discussions taking place of any sort. Quite frankly,
I personally find it hard for myself to code anything without discussing it
on the dev list first, and I believe that everyone in the Ignite community
feels the same way. I think that most people looking at our project would
agree that we have a very active dev list and everyone in the community is
participating.
Do all issues get discussed on the dev list? I would say we are very close
to it. Yes, of course, there is some Skype communication given that the
project is very complex and the team is distributed. But if you look on the
dev list you will see that all (or close to all) of the discussions do
find their way to the dev list and the community does participate very
actively.
I do agree that our Jira handling could be better and believe that
community has already responded to these discussions and addressed some of
the raised concerns. The truth is that so far many Jira discussions have
happened on the dev list, including community members sending notifications
about starting and ending work on Jiras and discussing Jira issues on the
dev list as well. This was a preferred way selected by the community that
we followed. I do agree that Jiras should be updated better and will
encourage everyone to do so going forward.
Hope this clarifies some points raised here.
Thanks,
Valentin
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
> valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Sorry for some late responses. It so happens that most of the community
> > members are on european time zones.
> >
>
> Thanks so much for jumping in!
>
>
> > > I recognize that the activity on the ML is diverse FINE !
> > > Concerns have been raised about a off-list issue system, that seems to
> be
> > > left open ?
> > >
> >
> > As Dmitry has already responded, there is absolutely no separate Jira
> > maintained for Ignite. Denis accidently sent his employer's Jira ticket
> > status to the dev list. In fact he is so used to send the most of his
> > emails to the dev list, that he sent this one to the dev list by accident
> > as well.
> >
>
> Valentin,
>
> As an interesting test of point of view, could you approach the project as
> if a stranger?
>
> Look at the mailing list. Look at JIRA. Try to understand what was
> resolved from the evidence you see. Look for evidence of how the design
> for the solution was arrived at.
>
> Take for instance IGNITE-1134. This is a hang after some stimulating
> event. This sort of problem is often caused by subtle consistency issues
> in distributed systems. This JIRA was resolved 21 hours after it was filed
> with no discussion or review as far as I can tell. It was closed 20
> seconds after resolution. How can an outsider be part of this process?
>
> After take a look from that perspective, please tell us what you think
> about whether design decisions are being made on the list. My view is that
> they appear not to be, but you can probably say more from the inside of the
> project.
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Valentin Kulichenko <
valentin.kulichenko@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry for some late responses. It so happens that most of the community
> members are on european time zones.
>
Thanks so much for jumping in!
> > I recognize that the activity on the ML is diverse FINE !
> > Concerns have been raised about a off-list issue system, that seems to be
> > left open ?
> >
>
> As Dmitry has already responded, there is absolutely no separate Jira
> maintained for Ignite. Denis accidently sent his employer's Jira ticket
> status to the dev list. In fact he is so used to send the most of his
> emails to the dev list, that he sent this one to the dev list by accident
> as well.
>
Valentin,
As an interesting test of point of view, could you approach the project as
if a stranger?
Look at the mailing list. Look at JIRA. Try to understand what was
resolved from the evidence you see. Look for evidence of how the design
for the solution was arrived at.
Take for instance IGNITE-1134. This is a hang after some stimulating
event. This sort of problem is often caused by subtle consistency issues
in distributed systems. This JIRA was resolved 21 hours after it was filed
with no discussion or review as far as I can tell. It was closed 20
seconds after resolution. How can an outsider be part of this process?
After take a look from that perspective, please tell us what you think
about whether design decisions are being made on the list. My view is that
they appear not to be, but you can probably say more from the inside of the
project.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Valentin Kulichenko <va...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I will jump in as I'm also on Ignite PMC.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:50 PM, jan i <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am concerned, seen from my POW (and please excuse it is of course my
> personal pow), too many
> questions remain unanswered.
>
> I am concerned because I would have expected the community to have clear
> answers (independent of whether I agree or not) to
> e.g. the concerns from Daniel.
>
>
Sorry for some late responses. It so happens that most of the community
members are on european time zones.
> It seems to me (and I am sorry, being busy, I do not research thing, I
> simply read this thread), that there are issues with the community.
>
> I recognize that the activity on the ML is diverse FINE !
> Concerns have been raised about a off-list issue system, that seems to be
> left open ?
>
As Dmitry has already responded, there is absolutely no separate Jira
maintained for Ignite. Denis accidently sent his employer's Jira ticket
status to the dev list. In fact he is so used to send the most of his
emails to the dev list, that he sent this one to the dev list by accident
as well.
> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits, that
> seems to be left open ?
>
The identity of the committers is never lost (at least to my knowledge). We
actually have the opposite problem of too many commits happening in
different branches because of our branching policy which requires a
separate branch for every ticket.
> Concerns have been raised about the homepage, that seems to be left open ?
>
>
I'm not sure what concerns were raised about the homepage (I actually like
the design ;-). Can you point me to the thread, if I missed it? To my
knowledge, there were some stale links that were noted, but those were
quickly fixed. We will be happy to address any open issues with the web
site.
> When it comes to voting time, those are the questions I will check if
> answered in an acceptable apache way, if so I am +1,
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
> On 23 July 2015 at 01:16, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> > questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> > being
> > properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
> >
> > This is something that mentors have asked to address before and, in fact,
> > the
> > community is making changes as we speak
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Sprint+Process
> >
> > specifically under 'git workflow'. Arguably, squashing is a matter of
> taste
> > and I would refrain from pushing the community one way or another,
> > although I
> > surely don't like non-squashed histories like that.
> >
> > Development process is actually documented on the wiki and is followed by
> > the
> > community. I don't see why it is looks closed or off-list, really. Any
> new
> > contributor can start picking up things using these tools. In fact, they
> > do -
> > the community has new committers and active users that have no problems
> > figuring out how to contribute into the project (according to the dev@
> and
> > user@ lists). Does it answer your concerns, Ted?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cos
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:07PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > > On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression
> > of a
> > > > split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following
> > the
> > > > Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least)
> > > > difficult to decipher.
> > > >
> > > > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> > > > 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> > > > typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx
> > cases
> > > > that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me
> > that
> > > > development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> > > >
> > > > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of
> > developers,
> > > > I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> > > > excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> >
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> > > mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would
> love
> > > for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> > > based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> > > hosted at the ASF.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> > > description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> > > changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> > > explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly
> taught
> > > about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> > > actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
> > >
> > > I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to
> get
> > > some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> > > development process.
> > >
> > > With regards,
> > > Daniel.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 29.07.2015 19:25, Greg Stein wrote:
> On Jul 29, 2015 11:37 AM, "Branko Čibej" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
>>>> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks issues, but
>>>> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the
> IPMC
>>>> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look
> like.
>>> Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
>>> community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so they
>>> can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe it's
>>> OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
>>> community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself with
>>> new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
>> Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
>> to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
>>
>> Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
>> better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
>> discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible preference
>> for RTC, it seems to be going well.
> I always translate RTC as "we don't trust you, so somebody else must
> approve anything you do."
Both Cos and I have been doing our best to explain exactly that to the
podling community. Unfortunately they have bad examples in some very
high profile TLPs, which makes it an uphill battle. It doesn't help that
the Incubator does nothing to promote CTR over RTC.
> To me, that is a lousy basis for creating a community. Trust and peer
> respect should be the basis, which implies CTR. I have seen many excuses
> for RTC, but they all are just window dressing over mistrust.
As far as I'm concerned, RTC <== FUD, especially the eff part.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>.
On Jul 29, 2015 11:37 AM, "Branko Čibej" <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> >> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks issues, but
> >> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the
IPMC
> >> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look
like.
> > Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
> > community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so they
> > can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe it's
> > OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
> > community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself with
> > new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
>
> Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
> to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
>
> Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
> better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
> discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible preference
> for RTC, it seems to be going well.
I always translate RTC as "we don't trust you, so somebody else must
approve anything you do."
To me, that is a lousy basis for creating a community. Trust and peer
respect should be the basis, which implies CTR. I have seen many excuses
for RTC, but they all are just window dressing over mistrust.
-g
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 29.07.2015 18:14, Joe Brockmeier wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
>> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks issues, but
>> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the IPMC
>> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look like.
> Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
> community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so they
> can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe it's
> OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
> community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself with
> new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
Given that new contributors keep showing up on a regular basis, I have
to assume that it's not so opaque as all that.
Anyway, Ignite has been discussing and implementing a revised (and IMO
better) set of policies for Jira use and git workflow since this
discussion started; other than displaying an incomprehensible preference
for RTC, it seems to be going well.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Joe Brockmeier <jz...@zonker.net>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015, at 03:19 AM, Branko Čibej wrote:
> Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks issues, but
> hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the IPMC
> starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look like.
Does "works for them" translate into "people not currently in the
community can follow how the existing community tracks issues, so they
can contribute and become part of the community"? If so, then maybe it's
OK. If it's not transparent to folks not currently part of that
community, it's hard to see how the community will sustain itself with
new members as other folks inevitably move on to other projects.
Best,
jzb
--
Joe Brockmeier
jzb@zonker.net
Twitter: @jzb
http://www.dissociatedpress.net/
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
// Putting my Ignite mentor hat on
I apologies for not chiming in on this thread earlier.
I am at OSCON and my connectivity is extremely
limited. Thus, I'd like to constrain myself to highly
actionable questions on this thread. Which is:
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Obviously it's good practice to post the outcome of offline chats to the
>> dev@ list for further discussion. On the other hand, I've not seen any
>> major feature appear in the Ignite code base without dev@ list discussion.
>>
>
> Could you find some examples.
>
> I would love to be convinced. So far, I have mostly been unconvinced by
> the examples that I have found.
>
> You would be likely to be better at finding good examples since you are
> closer to the project.
Is this the only actionable data point that is being
requested of Ignite mentors at this point? If there are
others I missed (once again apologies) I'd like
to know the full list before I dig into providing more
details on the podling.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:34 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Obviously it's good practice to post the outcome of offline chats to the
> > dev@ list for further discussion. On the other hand, I've not seen any
> > major feature appear in the Ignite code base without dev@ list
> discussion.
> >
>
> Could you find some examples.
>
> I would love to be convinced. So far, I have mostly been unconvinced by
> the examples that I have found.
>
> You would be likely to be better at finding good examples since you are
> closer to the project.
Ted,
Just from browsing first few pages on nabble (http://s.apache.org/ignite-dev),
I found many examples of decisions or important discussions made on the dev
list:
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Ignite-Web-Control-Center-Architecture-td1397.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Collocated-queues-td1760.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Ignite-startup-in-client-mode-silently-hanging-td1749.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Unstructured-object-format-td1685.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Create-cache-and-near-cache-from-XML-configuration-on-client-node-td1672.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Json-support-in-Ignite-td1662.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Ceph-w-Ignite-td1524.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/ConsistentId-for-IgniteConfiguration-td1472.html
http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/Improve-plugins-start-stop-procedure-td1468.html
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> > As far as off-list discussions are concerned, this is still a very big
> > issue for me. Off-list discussions and design work is not forbidden, but
> > it must be reflected back to the mailing list.
>
> I agree in principle but have to object to the "must": it's "should".
>
Hmm... we differ here.
> Obviously it's good practice to post the outcome of offline chats to the
> dev@ list for further discussion. On the other hand, I've not seen any
> major feature appear in the Ignite code base without dev@ list discussion.
>
Could you find some examples.
I would love to be convinced. So far, I have mostly been unconvinced by
the examples that I have found.
You would be likely to be better at finding good examples since you are
closer to the project.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
I don't think that such implementation requires hand-holding either.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 7:19 PM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 23.07.2015 18:26, Ted Dunning wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >>>> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
> >> that
> >>>> seems to be left open ?
> >>> I am not sure about this one: why there's a concern that people behind
> >> commits
> >>> aren't the same ppl as making the fixes? Am I reading this right?
> >> I think there are a couple things to consider here:
> >>
> >> 1. Off-list discussions, and commits made based on such discussions:
> >> There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The resultant code is
> >> public and can be reviewed. If the reasons behind a change are not
> >> clear, well, it's up to the devs to document the code and/or explain
> >> on the dev@ list; but forbidding off-list discussions implies
> >> forbidding hackathons and ApacheCons, for example.
> >
> > My question was more to do with losing historical detail by squashing
> > commits. Squashing commits has the tendency to hide contributions as
> > well. I think we have a good answer for that.
>
> I'd rather not state my opinion about squashing commits here; it's not
> printable.
>
> > As far as off-list discussions are concerned, this is still a very big
> > issue for me. Off-list discussions and design work is not forbidden, but
> > it must be reflected back to the mailing list.
>
> I agree in principle but have to object to the "must": it's "should".
>
> Obviously it's good practice to post the outcome of offline chats to the
> dev@ list for further discussion. On the other hand, I've not seen any
> major feature appear in the Ignite code base without dev@ list discussion.
>
> > With Ignite, I worry that such discussions are happening (they must be,
> by
> > geography and time zone alone) but are not being reflected back to the
> > mailing list or to the JIRA. It is not even clear when a bug is closed
> > whether there was a code fix or not.
>
> I've put my thoughts on Jira usage into another post.
>
> -- Brane
>
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>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 23.07.2015 18:26, Ted Dunning wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>>>> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
>> that
>>>> seems to be left open ?
>>> I am not sure about this one: why there's a concern that people behind
>> commits
>>> aren't the same ppl as making the fixes? Am I reading this right?
>> I think there are a couple things to consider here:
>>
>> 1. Off-list discussions, and commits made based on such discussions:
>> There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The resultant code is
>> public and can be reviewed. If the reasons behind a change are not
>> clear, well, it's up to the devs to document the code and/or explain
>> on the dev@ list; but forbidding off-list discussions implies
>> forbidding hackathons and ApacheCons, for example.
>
> My question was more to do with losing historical detail by squashing
> commits. Squashing commits has the tendency to hide contributions as
> well. I think we have a good answer for that.
I'd rather not state my opinion about squashing commits here; it's not
printable.
> As far as off-list discussions are concerned, this is still a very big
> issue for me. Off-list discussions and design work is not forbidden, but
> it must be reflected back to the mailing list.
I agree in principle but have to object to the "must": it's "should".
Obviously it's good practice to post the outcome of offline chats to the
dev@ list for further discussion. On the other hand, I've not seen any
major feature appear in the Ignite code base without dev@ list discussion.
> With Ignite, I worry that such discussions are happening (they must be, by
> geography and time zone alone) but are not being reflected back to the
> mailing list or to the JIRA. It is not even clear when a bug is closed
> whether there was a code fix or not.
I've put my thoughts on Jira usage into another post.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits,
> that
> >> seems to be left open ?
> > I am not sure about this one: why there's a concern that people behind
> commits
> > aren't the same ppl as making the fixes? Am I reading this right?
>
> I think there are a couple things to consider here:
>
> 1. Off-list discussions, and commits made based on such discussions:
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The resultant code is
> public and can be reviewed. If the reasons behind a change are not
> clear, well, it's up to the devs to document the code and/or explain
> on the dev@ list; but forbidding off-list discussions implies
> forbidding hackathons and ApacheCons, for example.
My question was more to do with losing historical detail by squashing
commits. Squashing commits has the tendency to hide contributions as
well. I think we have a good answer for that.
As far as off-list discussions are concerned, this is still a very big
issue for me. Off-list discussions and design work is not forbidden, but
it must be reflected back to the mailing list.
This issue has come up many times. For instance, with Apache Drill, the
initial team was highly MapR-centric. This inevitably meant that people
talked at lunch or because they sat next to each other. A first step to
broaden this discussion and to even the playing field in terms of face to
face communication was to institute a weekly video meeting open to
everybody via Google hangouts. These meetings are archived, I believe, and
there have been over a hundred of them so far.
But as good as that outreach was, there was considerable criticism on this
same mailing list that hangouts were only OK if the content discussed was
either informational (so information travels from the mailing list to the
hangouts) or if design decisions were discussed that the discussions were
summarized back to the list. Doing this consistently takes considerable
effort because it is fairly natural to simply move forward.
With perspective, I think that the criticisms and the resulting changes in
process in the Drill project were extremely helpful and they make the
project better and more approachable.
With Ignite, I worry that such discussions are happening (they must be, by
geography and time zone alone) but are not being reflected back to the
mailing list or to the JIRA. It is not even clear when a bug is closed
whether there was a code fix or not.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 23.07.2015 03:11, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 01:50AM, jan i wrote:
>> Concerns have been raised about a off-list issue system, that seems to be
>> left open ?
>> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits, that
>> seems to be left open ?
> I am not sure about this one: why there's a concern that people behind commits
> aren't the same ppl as making the fixes? Am I reading this right?
I think there are a couple things to consider here:
1. Off-list discussions, and commits made based on such discussions:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The resultant code is
public and can be reviewed. If the reasons behind a change are not
clear, well, it's up to the devs to document the code and/or explain
on the dev@ list; but forbidding off-list discussions implies
forbidding hackathons and ApacheCons, for example.
2. Committing changes that were made by someone else: this is
potentially a bit shadier, but in general, the committer is
responsible for the change, not the author. A committer might even
hire someone to develop stuff for them ... that'd be a bit fishy,
but not invalid. The only objection I can think of is if a committer
shares her ASF account with someone else. I've seen no indication of
that happening.
Personally I'm not too happy with how this community tracks issues, but
hey, if it works for them, why fix it? It'll be a fine day when the IPMC
starts telling podlings how their development workflow should look like.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 01:50AM, jan i wrote:
> Hi
>
> I am concerned, seen from my POW (and please excuse it is of course my
> personal pow), too many
> questions remain unanswered.
>
> I am concerned because I would have expected the community to have clear
> answers (independent of whether I agree or not) to
> e.g. the concerns from Daniel.
>
> It seems to me (and I am sorry, being busy, I do not research thing, I
> simply read this thread), that there are issues with the community.
>
> I recognize that the activity on the ML is diverse FINE !
> Concerns have been raised about a off-list issue system, that seems to be
> left open ?
> Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits, that
> seems to be left open ?
I am not sure about this one: why there's a concern that people behind commits
aren't the same ppl as making the fixes? Am I reading this right?
> Concerns have been raised about the homepage, that seems to be left open ?
The other two are being/were answered.
> When it comes to voting time, those are the questions I will check if
> answered in an acceptable apache way, if so I am +1,
And thank you for that: these are actionable. I wouldn't expect anything less!
Cos
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
> On 23 July 2015 at 01:16, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> > questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> > being
> > properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
> >
> > This is something that mentors have asked to address before and, in fact,
> > the
> > community is making changes as we speak
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Sprint+Process
> >
> > specifically under 'git workflow'. Arguably, squashing is a matter of taste
> > and I would refrain from pushing the community one way or another,
> > although I
> > surely don't like non-squashed histories like that.
> >
> > Development process is actually documented on the wiki and is followed by
> > the
> > community. I don't see why it is looks closed or off-list, really. Any new
> > contributor can start picking up things using these tools. In fact, they
> > do -
> > the community has new committers and active users that have no problems
> > figuring out how to contribute into the project (according to the dev@ and
> > user@ lists). Does it answer your concerns, Ted?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cos
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:07PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > > On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression
> > of a
> > > > split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following
> > the
> > > > Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least)
> > > > difficult to decipher.
> > > >
> > > > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> > > > 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> > > > typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx
> > cases
> > > > that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me
> > that
> > > > development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> > > >
> > > > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of
> > developers,
> > > > I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> > > > excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> > > mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
> > > for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> > > based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> > > hosted at the ASF.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> > > description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> > > changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> > > explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
> > > about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> > > actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
> > >
> > > I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
> > > some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> > > development process.
> > >
> > > With regards,
> > > Daniel.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by jan i <ja...@apache.org>.
Hi
I am concerned, seen from my POW (and please excuse it is of course my
personal pow), too many
questions remain unanswered.
I am concerned because I would have expected the community to have clear
answers (independent of whether I agree or not) to
e.g. the concerns from Daniel.
It seems to me (and I am sorry, being busy, I do not research thing, I
simply read this thread), that there are issues with the community.
I recognize that the activity on the ML is diverse FINE !
Concerns have been raised about a off-list issue system, that seems to be
left open ?
Concerns have been raised about the people behind the actual commits, that
seems to be left open ?
Concerns have been raised about the homepage, that seems to be left open ?
When it comes to voting time, those are the questions I will check if
answered in an acceptable apache way, if so I am +1,
rgds
jan I.
On 23 July 2015 at 01:16, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> being
> properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
>
> This is something that mentors have asked to address before and, in fact,
> the
> community is making changes as we speak
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Sprint+Process
>
> specifically under 'git workflow'. Arguably, squashing is a matter of taste
> and I would refrain from pushing the community one way or another,
> although I
> surely don't like non-squashed histories like that.
>
> Development process is actually documented on the wiki and is followed by
> the
> community. I don't see why it is looks closed or off-list, really. Any new
> contributor can start picking up things using these tools. In fact, they
> do -
> the community has new committers and active users that have no problems
> figuring out how to contribute into the project (according to the dev@ and
> user@ lists). Does it answer your concerns, Ted?
>
> Regards,
> Cos
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:07PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression
> of a
> > > split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following
> the
> > > Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least)
> > > difficult to decipher.
> > >
> > > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> > > 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> > > typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx
> cases
> > > that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me
> that
> > > development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> > >
> > > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of
> developers,
> > > I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> > > excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> > mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
> > for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> > based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> > hosted at the ASF.
> >
> > Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> > description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> > changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> > explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
> > about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> > actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
> >
> > I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
> > some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> > development process.
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 04:46PM, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Actually, that document just makes me more dubious.
>
> The problems I see are:
>
> 1) the identity of the original person doing the work is obscured by the
> squash commits
No. Besides, I am not talking about rebases and force-pushes. I am talking
about branching models in the local environment.
> 2) the deletion of the bug branch after integration involves deletion of
> important information from git (and I thought that rewriting of history is
> outlawed on the apache git repo in any case)
No and no. Removing a merged branch doesn't remove a thing, but a reference
(called 'branch' in git)
> 3) the mention of deleting branches makes me worry that development is
> going on using a separate repos that aren't visible to the apache repo
And no again. See above. Besides, I fail to find how branching practices are
relevant to the discussion at hands? E.g why IPMC (or the foundation) would
put itself in the seat of the development practices' adviser? How can a
branching model or commit practices be decided by anyone but the community
developing the project?
Cos
> I still see the problem of understanding what happened. I just reviewed a
> dozen or so of the most recent JIRA's and found only the slightest
> discussion in the comments on any of them (1 had a round or two, another
> had a little less and all the rest had none at all).
>
> Here[1,2,3] are searches for discussions on a sample JIRA.
>
> I find it hard to believe that these bugs are being resolved clairvoyantly
> and have to conclude that there is considerable discussion of these issues
> going on somewhere other than JIRA or the mailing list.
>
> [1]
> https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1095
>
> [2]
> https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1095#q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1031
>
> [3]
> https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1095#q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1100
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> > questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> > being
> > properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
> >
> > This is something that mentors have asked to address before and, in fact,
> > the
> > community is making changes as we speak
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Sprint+Process
> >
> > specifically under 'git workflow'. Arguably, squashing is a matter of taste
> > and I would refrain from pushing the community one way or another,
> > although I
> > surely don't like non-squashed histories like that.
> >
> > Development process is actually documented on the wiki and is followed by
> > the
> > community. I don't see why it is looks closed or off-list, really. Any new
> > contributor can start picking up things using these tools. In fact, they
> > do -
> > the community has new committers and active users that have no problems
> > figuring out how to contribute into the project (according to the dev@ and
> > user@ lists). Does it answer your concerns, Ted?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Cos
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:07PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > > On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression
> > of a
> > > > split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following
> > the
> > > > Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least)
> > > > difficult to decipher.
> > > >
> > > > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> > > > 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> > > > typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx
> > cases
> > > > that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me
> > that
> > > > development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> > > >
> > > > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of
> > developers,
> > > > I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> > > > excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> > > >
> > > > Julian
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> > > mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
> > > for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> > > based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> > > hosted at the ASF.
> > >
> > > Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> > > description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> > > changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> > > explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
> > > about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> > > actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
> > >
> > > I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
> > > some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> > > development process.
> > >
> > > With regards,
> > > Daniel.
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Actually, that document just makes me more dubious.
The problems I see are:
1) the identity of the original person doing the work is obscured by the
squash commits
2) the deletion of the bug branch after integration involves deletion of
important information from git (and I thought that rewriting of history is
outlawed on the apache git repo in any case)
3) the mention of deleting branches makes me worry that development is
going on using a separate repos that aren't visible to the apache repo
I still see the problem of understanding what happened. I just reviewed a
dozen or so of the most recent JIRA's and found only the slightest
discussion in the comments on any of them (1 had a round or two, another
had a little less and all the rest had none at all).
Here[1,2,3] are searches for discussions on a sample JIRA.
I find it hard to believe that these bugs are being resolved clairvoyantly
and have to conclude that there is considerable discussion of these issues
going on somewhere other than JIRA or the mailing list.
[1]
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1095
[2]
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1095#q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1031
[3]
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1095#q=site:http:%2F%2Fmail-archives.apache.org%2Fmod_mbox%2Fincubator-ignite-dev%2F201507.mbox+IGNITE-1100
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
> questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not
> being
> properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
>
> This is something that mentors have asked to address before and, in fact,
> the
> community is making changes as we speak
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Sprint+Process
>
> specifically under 'git workflow'. Arguably, squashing is a matter of taste
> and I would refrain from pushing the community one way or another,
> although I
> surely don't like non-squashed histories like that.
>
> Development process is actually documented on the wiki and is followed by
> the
> community. I don't see why it is looks closed or off-list, really. Any new
> contributor can start picking up things using these tools. In fact, they
> do -
> the community has new committers and active users that have no problems
> figuring out how to contribute into the project (according to the dev@ and
> user@ lists). Does it answer your concerns, Ted?
>
> Regards,
> Cos
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:07PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> > On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression
> of a
> > > split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following
> the
> > > Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least)
> > > difficult to decipher.
> > >
> > > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> > > 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> > > typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx
> cases
> > > that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me
> that
> > > development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> > >
> > > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of
> developers,
> > > I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> > > excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> > >
> > > Julian
> > >
> > > [1]
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> > mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
> > for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> > based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> > hosted at the ASF.
> >
> > Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> > description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> > changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> > explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
> > about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> > actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
> >
> > I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
> > some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> > development process.
> >
> > With regards,
> > Daniel.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
After a quick walk through the master log I see that a bunch of the
questionable commits are resulted from the dev. branches histories not being
properly squashed before the feature is merged into the master.
This is something that mentors have asked to address before and, in fact, the
community is making changes as we speak
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Sprint+Process
specifically under 'git workflow'. Arguably, squashing is a matter of taste
and I would refrain from pushing the community one way or another, although I
surely don't like non-squashed histories like that.
Development process is actually documented on the wiki and is followed by the
community. I don't see why it is looks closed or off-list, really. Any new
contributor can start picking up things using these tools. In fact, they do -
the community has new committers and active users that have no problems
figuring out how to contribute into the project (according to the dev@ and
user@ lists). Does it answer your concerns, Ted?
Regards,
Cos
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:07PM, Daniel Gruno wrote:
> On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> > I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression of a
> > split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following the
> > Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least)
> > difficult to decipher.
> >
> > In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> > 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> > typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx cases
> > that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me that
> > development is been driven by off-list meetings.
> >
> > If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of developers,
> > I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> > excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
> >
> > Julian
> >
> > [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
> >
> >
>
> The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
> mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
> for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
> based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
> hosted at the ASF.
>
> Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
> description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
> changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
> explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
> about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
> actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
>
> I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
> some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
> development process.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 07/22/2015 09:23 PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression of a split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following the Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least) difficult to decipher.
>
> In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx cases that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me that development is been driven by off-list meetings.
>
> If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of developers, I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
>
> Julian
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
>
>
The GG-10559 commit log (along with the 'oops' email sent to dev by
mistake today) seems to indicate (this is just speculation, I would love
for someone to answer whether this is the case) that commits are being
based off an internal JIRA instance (or other bug tracking system) not
hosted at the ASF.
Furthermore, I have found that there are 207 JIRA tickets with NO
description, discussion or useful information other than ownership
changing hands and then suddenly the tickets have been resolved with no
explanation, suggesting that either people have not been properly taught
about how to share information and collaborate as a community, or the
actual discussions and 'ping-pong' happen elsewhere, outside our view.
I naturally hope there is no reason for concern, and I would love to get
some insight into why these things pop into view when you examine the
development process.
With regards,
Daniel.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:31 PM, Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org> wrote:
> Shall we agree that the community is ready to graduate and task the new PMC
> with a couple of the action items such as keep recruiting outside
> committers,
> thus growing the viability of the project, and improving the JIRA
> communication process? If we can agree on this last proposal then we just
> might have the consensus.
>
> Is it a reasonable course of action?
>
I think that there is a reasonable question about whether the community is
ready to graduate. That question hinges on whether the development is
really being done in the open.
I think that there is good evidence of good will in the mailing list
history. That probably means that any defect in behavior is inadvertent.
Until the first question about off-list development is resolved, I would
like to change my vote to -1. This is purely for the purpose of spurring
the resolution of the development process question.
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 2015-07-23 00:31, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
>
>> Thanks Julian - that's something that this community would have it
>> improve.
>> Although I don't see if a particular way of using (or not using) JIRA is a
>> graduation's requirement. If there's a way to trace a particular feature
>> to an
>> archived discussion - ie mailing list - there's no problem in my
>> professional
>> view ;)
>>
>> As Brane said above: perhaps not the still snapshot, but rather the
>> trends of
>> the improvements have to be considered when the future graduation is
>> discussed.
>>
>> Do we have a disagreement about the graduation criteria? Yes. Does IPMC
>> asks
>> right questions: sure!
>>
>> Shall we agree that the community is ready to graduate and task the new
>> PMC
>> with a couple of the action items such as keep recruiting outside
>> committers,
>> thus growing the viability of the project, and improving the JIRA
>> communication process? If we can agree on this last proposal then we just
>> might have the consensus.
>>
>> If the podling has to be tasked with fixing procedures after graduation,
> the podling is not ready to graduate, in my view.
> The incubator is tasked with ensuring that podlings adhere to the
> guidelines for open source development we have in the ASF, and if we let
> podlings graduate before they have consistently proven that they do just
> that, it diminishes the value of the incubator.
>
> There should be no rush here. If the IPMC has reasonable concerns (as is
> mentioned by several IPMC members) and can list specific procedures and/or
> philosophies that need to change, I think it best that the podling works
> towards this and seeks to graduate at a later time when these issues are
> considered resolved in a manner that the IPMC agrees with. This is and
> should be a consensus issue, and as such, I think it would be best for the
> podling to take a step back, address the issues, and then come back to the
> IPMC when they believe they have incorporated the necessary changes.
>
Hi Daniel, I agree. However, while I believe that every project can improve
in many ways, I think that our processes are very open and community
friendly. So far we have had many new contributors submit patches that have
been accepted or in progress:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1059
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1055
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1017
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-428
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-788
etc...
Also, I believe I have addressed the concerns you have raised in my reply
to your other email. Happy to discuss further.
>
> For the reasons stated above, I am -1 on this as it stands.
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 2015-07-23 00:31, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> Thanks Julian - that's something that this community would have it improve.
> Although I don't see if a particular way of using (or not using) JIRA is a
> graduation's requirement. If there's a way to trace a particular feature to an
> archived discussion - ie mailing list - there's no problem in my professional
> view ;)
>
> As Brane said above: perhaps not the still snapshot, but rather the trends of
> the improvements have to be considered when the future graduation is
> discussed.
>
> Do we have a disagreement about the graduation criteria? Yes. Does IPMC asks
> right questions: sure!
>
> Shall we agree that the community is ready to graduate and task the new PMC
> with a couple of the action items such as keep recruiting outside committers,
> thus growing the viability of the project, and improving the JIRA
> communication process? If we can agree on this last proposal then we just
> might have the consensus.
>
If the podling has to be tasked with fixing procedures after graduation,
the podling is not ready to graduate, in my view.
The incubator is tasked with ensuring that podlings adhere to the
guidelines for open source development we have in the ASF, and if we let
podlings graduate before they have consistently proven that they do just
that, it diminishes the value of the incubator.
There should be no rush here. If the IPMC has reasonable concerns (as is
mentioned by several IPMC members) and can list specific procedures
and/or philosophies that need to change, I think it best that the
podling works towards this and seeks to graduate at a later time when
these issues are considered resolved in a manner that the IPMC agrees
with. This is and should be a consensus issue, and as such, I think it
would be best for the podling to take a step back, address the issues,
and then come back to the IPMC when they believe they have incorporated
the necessary changes.
For the reasons stated above, I am -1 on this as it stands.
With regards,
Daniel.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Thanks Julian - that's something that this community would have it improve.
Although I don't see if a particular way of using (or not using) JIRA is a
graduation's requirement. If there's a way to trace a particular feature to an
archived discussion - ie mailing list - there's no problem in my professional
view ;)
As Brane said above: perhaps not the still snapshot, but rather the trends of
the improvements have to be considered when the future graduation is
discussed.
Do we have a disagreement about the graduation criteria? Yes. Does IPMC asks
right questions: sure!
Shall we agree that the community is ready to graduate and task the new PMC
with a couple of the action items such as keep recruiting outside committers,
thus growing the viability of the project, and improving the JIRA
communication process? If we can agree on this last proposal then we just
might have the consensus.
Is it a reasonable course of action?
Cos
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:23PM, Julian Hyde wrote:
> I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression of a
> split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following the
> Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least) difficult
> to decipher.
>
> In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch
> 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are
> typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx cases
> that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me that
> development is been driven by off-list meetings.
>
> If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of developers, I
> think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the
> excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
>
> Julian
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2015, at 12:14 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 21.07.2015 21:04, Ted Dunning wrote:
> >> Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
> >> this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming that
> >> the 37% are actually active, that is).
> >
> > Indeed. And yes, they're active; that's easily established by reading
> > the dev@ list, commit log and Jira log.
> >
> > I was quite surprised by how quickly the project got contributors from
> > "outside", and anyone who takes the trouble to actually look at how the
> > community operates will find that it is very helpful and receptive. I
> > wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few TPLs and even recently
> > graduated podlings that could take the Ignite community as an example
> > rather than the other way around.
> >
> > I suggest that everyone who doubts that this is an "open and diverse
> > community" should go and read the mailing list archives for the last few
> > months or so instead of making uninformed statements based on some
> > incidental numbers. If, on the other hand, you prefer running the IPMC
> > using statistics instead of facts, you could at least have made the
> > effort to look at the trends instead of a point-in-time snapshot.
> >
> > -- Brane
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Pierre Smits <pi...@gmail.com>.
Re: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1015
This also happens in other projects I visited. Issues start out small, and
over time they grow towards completeness (description, better subject, etc)
based on the feedback provided via comments and via on and off list
interactions. One issue shouldn't be worrisome.
But if there are more that don't get enhanced explanation-wise, or even
many similar issues but resolved and closed as fixed or implemented, over a
longer period of time then it looks like more is at play.
Maybe it is something innocent that can be easily cured, such as ignorance.
But it might also an indication of in-crowd behaviour, that there is no
need to inform the outside or worse. Mentors should have an eye for this
and report and address it.
Best regards,
Pierre Smits
*ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>*
Services & Solutions for Cloud-
Based Manufacturing, Professional
Services and Retail & Trade
http://www.orrtiz.com
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Hmm...
Also, if you look at the JIRA in question, the question of what is
happening is also not resovled:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-1015
There are no comments, nor any linkage to the commit history.
This could definitely be improved. It is important to take the course
that Julian has done and see the project as an outsider would. Can
this hypothetical outsider decipher what happened?
It sounds from Julian and Brane's input that the mailing list works
for this, but that there is no good way to correlate that back to the
code. I would be happy to be contradicted on this, but I can't easily
connect starting from the JIRA to the commit logs.
This should be easy to fix.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org> wrote:
> I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression of a split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following the Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least) difficult to decipher.
>
> In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx cases that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me that development is been driven by off-list meetings.
>
> If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of developers, I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
>
> Julian
>
> [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
> [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
>
>
>
> On Jul 22, 2015, at 12:14 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 21.07.2015 21:04, Ted Dunning wrote:
>>> Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
>>> this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming that
>>> the 37% are actually active, that is).
>>
>> Indeed. And yes, they're active; that's easily established by reading
>> the dev@ list, commit log and Jira log.
>>
>> I was quite surprised by how quickly the project got contributors from
>> "outside", and anyone who takes the trouble to actually look at how the
>> community operates will find that it is very helpful and receptive. I
>> wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few TPLs and even recently
>> graduated podlings that could take the Ignite community as an example
>> rather than the other way around.
>>
>> I suggest that everyone who doubts that this is an "open and diverse
>> community" should go and read the mailing list archives for the last few
>> months or so instead of making uninformed statements based on some
>> incidental numbers. If, on the other hand, you prefer running the IPMC
>> using statistics instead of facts, you could at least have made the
>> effort to look at the trends instead of a point-in-time snapshot.
>>
>> -- Brane
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Julian Hyde <jh...@apache.org>.
I reviewed Ignite’s commit log and email lists. I got the impression of a split personality: The dev list[1] is very open and clearly following the Apache Way. Meanwhile, the commit log[2] is (to my eyes at least) difficult to decipher.
In the commit log, messages such as "Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/master’” and "# master minor”, "GG-10559 - Improvements.” are typical. Very few descriptive comments or references to IGNITE-xxx cases that could provide further explanation. Those are indications to me that development is been driven by off-list meetings.
If the Ignite committers want to build a diverse community of developers, I think they need to make their commits more transparent to match the excellent transparency they have achieved on their mailing list.
Julian
[1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ignite-dev/201507.mbox/browser
[2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-ignite/commits/master
On Jul 22, 2015, at 12:14 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 21.07.2015 21:04, Ted Dunning wrote:
>> Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
>> this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming that
>> the 37% are actually active, that is).
>
> Indeed. And yes, they're active; that's easily established by reading
> the dev@ list, commit log and Jira log.
>
> I was quite surprised by how quickly the project got contributors from
> "outside", and anyone who takes the trouble to actually look at how the
> community operates will find that it is very helpful and receptive. I
> wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few TPLs and even recently
> graduated podlings that could take the Ignite community as an example
> rather than the other way around.
>
> I suggest that everyone who doubts that this is an "open and diverse
> community" should go and read the mailing list archives for the last few
> months or so instead of making uninformed statements based on some
> incidental numbers. If, on the other hand, you prefer running the IPMC
> using statistics instead of facts, you could at least have made the
> effort to look at the trends instead of a point-in-time snapshot.
>
> -- Brane
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 21.07.2015 21:04, Ted Dunning wrote:
> Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
> this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming that
> the 37% are actually active, that is).
Indeed. And yes, they're active; that's easily established by reading
the dev@ list, commit log and Jira log.
I was quite surprised by how quickly the project got contributors from
"outside", and anyone who takes the trouble to actually look at how the
community operates will find that it is very helpful and receptive. I
wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few TPLs and even recently
graduated podlings that could take the Ignite community as an example
rather than the other way around.
I suggest that everyone who doubts that this is an "open and diverse
community" should go and read the mailing list archives for the last few
months or so instead of making uninformed statements based on some
incidental numbers. If, on the other hand, you prefer running the IPMC
using statistics instead of facts, you could at least have made the
effort to look at the trends instead of a point-in-time snapshot.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Actually, given that this project was a spin-out of an internal project,
this is a stunningly low number to have achieved so quickly (assuming that
the 37% are actually active, that is).
Kudos.
+1
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:08 AM, amareshwarisr . <am...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
> and managed flow of information between systems."
>
> I dont see any such on project website -
> http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
> Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> .
> You might want to correct it.
>
> Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
> description
>
> Thanks
> Amareshwari
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Apache Incubator,
> >
> > At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> consensus
> > and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> > graduation to TLP.
> >
> > Vote thread:
> >
> >
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >
> > Summary of the vote results:
> > +1 (non-binding) = 14
> >
> > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > 14. Milap Wadwa
> >
> > We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> > within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >
> > Below is our proposed resolution:
> >
> > Thank you
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >
> > SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > information between systems.
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > between systems and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > Apache Ignite Project:
> >
> > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > Project are hereafter discharged.
> >
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by "amareshwarisr ." <am...@gmail.com>.
Seems the DESCRIPTION_AND_SCOPE of the project is set to " the automated
and managed flow of information between systems."
I dont see any such on project website - http://ignite.incubator.apache.org/
Looks like a copy from NIFI's graduation discussion -
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/201506.mbox/%3CCALJK9a4PD%2B3qGGQbbHHyLfY8Ut9BP9VyEDwtnZDSWjpMKiwk9w%40mail.gmail.com%3E.
You might want to correct it.
Correct me if description is fine and I'm wrong in understanding the
description
Thanks
Amareshwari
On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:06 AM, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hello Apache Incubator,
>
> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established consensus
> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> graduation to TLP.
>
> Vote thread:
>
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>
> Summary of the vote results:
> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>
> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> 14. Milap Wadwa
>
> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>
> Below is our proposed resolution:
>
> Thank you
> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>
> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> information between systems.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> between systems and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> for management of the projects within the scope of
> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Ignite Project:
>
> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> Project are hereafter discharged.
>
Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 21.07.2015 03:26, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> Thanks for kicking off this discussion, Dmirtiy.
>
> As one of the mentors I think this podling is ready to get graduated. The process of "indocrInating" this group of people into the Apache Way was not always a walk in a park and we had our share of heated discussions. But the fact that the community converged into the ASF way of doing things and did it with open face makes me believe that the goal of the incubation has been achieved. There's nothing for me as a mentor to help this podling with.
I second all of the above.
> No, scratch that. One last thing I want to do. Here it is: before we submit this resolution to the IPMC vote, let's remove the following paragraph:
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> There's clearly no need to create any special bylaws unless the project needs to amend the common and minimal set of ASF bylaws. Having more laws makes a project worst off not better. Hence, I move to remove this clause completely.
Agreed. The Ignite podling has its development and release processes
adequately documented and/or automated and IMO does not need any further
rules that depart from published ASF policy.
-- Brane
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
Hi Daniel
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Apologies in advance for slightly crossing threads here.
I'll try to keep you straight in replying to the parts that belong to
this thread ;-)
> But let's get some facts straight first:
> - The champion of the project created a DISCUSS thread prior to a potential
> vote. Not a VOTE thread, but a DISCUSS thread. This implies that a subject
> is to be reviewed and discussed.
> - During this discussion thread, concerns were raised by people outside of
> the IPMC.
So far so good.
> - Members of the IPMC looked into the concerns, as any governing body
> should, and while doing so, discovered other issues that were brought to the
> attention of the podling. These issues ranged from bad wording, which were
> unfortunately favorable to a specific company, to more procedural issues in
> maintaining transparency in development.
>
> - Some of these issues were fixed, some were debated/refuted, and some are
> 'pending' later review (chiefly cultural and procedural issues raised)
And here's where things get interesting. First of all, let me say that I'm
extremely grateful for *actionable* concerns that were expressed on
this thread. Things like sill cut-n-paste errors. I really do appreciate IPMC's
time spent of reviewing the proposed board resolution.
Then, there were concerns that are non-actionable (or at least poorly
specified) and then there were concerns that had nothing to do with
whether the podling is ready to be an *average* TLP.
Because you see, the proposed resolution that started this thread is NOT
about whether we all believe Ignite is going to be a poster child and a
role model for all the TLPs in the foundation, but rather whether we believe
it can self govern according to the broad principles of the "Apache Way".
IOW, in my view (a view of somebody who spent quite a few months
directly with this and other podlings) some of the concerns are OK to
address after the project becomes a TLP. There's always something
to be improved. IPMC voting on a podling becoming a TLP doesn't
somehow invalidate what you and other have uncovered it just believes
that the podling is mature enough to address feedback as a TLP. That's
what the vote is really all about.
So, long story short:
1. I believe all actionable concerns were take care of. Please correct
me if I am wrong here (by listing the actionable concerns that were NOT
taken care of).
2. Since I still don't seem to have anybody reply to my direct question:
http://s.apache.org/twy
I need to repeat this request here again: if anybody still has *actionable*
concerns on whether this podling can function as an *average* TLP please
reply with succinct bullet items.
I'm sorry but the rest of the replies belong to that other separate thread.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
I'll keep it short :)
I fully agree that many of these issues should have been addressed much
earlier, it would have been better that way.
I don't think our current incubation process in tandem with this being a
volunteer process is "doing the right thing" at all times, and I am more
than willing to help look into what we can do to better this. I think
the IPMC did the right thing by saying "whoah, we need to address these
issues first", but yes, it should have happened sooner.
We need to look into how we can, with the resources we have, assure that
when it comes to a vote, the right procedures are in place and we know
what to answer people who raise concerns. In this case, we were (as is
apparent) surprised by what we discovered, and it all came at once like
a snowball rolling down a hill. In part because we are economically
minded people - we don't focus on an issue unless it is an issue, or
we'd have to spend hours every day looking after 40+ podlings, in part
because we have a system in place that is prone to cause this.
The system needs to get better so we don't end up with one huge fight at
the end, but I think the concerns were/are genuinely valid, albeit in
the wrong place of the process.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 2015-07-27 00:00, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Daniel, I agree with almost all your points about process (I do not have an opinion on Ignite, the mentors have expressed their opinion based in feedback in this thread, the IPMC will ultimately decide on whether graduation is appropriate).
>
> My complaint about process is that these things should be uncovered and discussed during incubation not at some "gate" controlled by the IPMC but triggered by mentors sending a Discuss thread.
>
> The IPMC absolutely should not rubber stamp things. So why is it that the report process hasn't highlighted these concerns during incubation? (a genuine question with no accusation intended)
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ________________________________
> From: Daniel Gruno<ma...@apache.org>
> Sent: 7/26/2015 1:55 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org<ma...@incubator.apache.org>
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
>
> Apologies in advance for slightly crossing threads here.
>
> Even though I have already sent quite a lot of emails on this subject
> (12 over the past week!), I feel I must reply to some of the concerns
> and opinions expressed in the last few emails. I do not like it when
> concerns are answered with the notion that it is perhaps caused by the
> concerned party being uneducated, as I believe there are deeper issues
> at play here. Nor do I agree with any notion that the IPMC should be a
> rubber stamp.
>
> But let's get some facts straight first:
> - The champion of the project created a DISCUSS thread prior to a
> potential vote. Not a VOTE thread, but a DISCUSS thread. This implies
> that a subject is to be reviewed and discussed.
> - During this discussion thread, concerns were raised by people outside
> of the IPMC.
> - Members of the IPMC looked into the concerns, as any governing body
> should, and while doing so, discovered other issues that were brought to
> the attention of the podling. These issues ranged from bad wording,
> which were unfortunately favorable to a specific company, to more
> procedural issues in maintaining transparency in development.
> - Some of these issues were fixed, some were debated/refuted, and some
> are 'pending' later review (chiefly cultural and procedural issues raised)
>
> The fact that the IPMC members found other issues while investigating
> concerns does not, in my view, equal 'micro management'. I think it
> shows that having people outside the specific podling look into it can
> shed some light on matters that were perhaps overlooked by mentors, and
> that is a good thing. Very specific issues were highlighted because they
> showed exactly where the supposed disconnect in procedure was. I believe
> having specific data points to present helps a great deal in fixing
> procedures.
>
> We can debate whether the IPMC should have found these issues earlier,
> as Ross rightfully suggests, but nonetheless, the following is (I hope)
> true:
>
> The IPMC, just like the board of directors, trust the mentors - just
> like the board trusts the PMCs - to do their best in reporting the true
> status of a podling/project. The IPMC, just like the board, does not
> rubber-stamp blindly. If concerns are raised, the IPMC, just like the
> board, will look into issues, and if that search yields anything worth
> asking about (even if that turns out to be some other issue found during
> the investigation), then the IPMC, just like the board, will ask the
> podling/project whether this is true and whether they are currently
> working on fixing it or will fix it.
>
> I fail to see the disconnect, nor do I see it as 'punishment from up
> high' as was suggested. There were a few emails where the tone should
> have been more polite or diplomatic (FOSSers can get quite grumpy, we
> should try our best not to), but on the whole, this discussion has been
> one of facts (specifically an inquiry into why the findings of some
> people are inconsistent with the findings of others) and policy.
>
> We all have day jobs, we have hobbies, we have family, we have beds we
> sleep in for quite a lot of hours every day. That coupled with our other
> commitments to ASF projects makes it nigh impossible to stay up to date
> with what's going on in every single podling, which in turn means that
> when we finally do, every single thing, that should have been mentioned
> perhaps months ago, suddenly rains down on the podling within a matter
> of days. This is indeed unfortunate and not always very fair to the
> podling, but it is a result of how the incubator works and how people work.
>
> This thread has been long, and I'm not interested in having it go on
> forever. The IPMC has given feedback to the podling, the podling has
> either complied or promised to comply with this. Given enough time for
> procedural changes to become visible and consistent, I think the mentors
> should then start a vote on graduation.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
>
> On 2015-07-25 22:27, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On 24.07.2015 21:00, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
>>>> An an active mentor of the podling I do support the graduation. The last, to
>>>> my knowledge, concern expressed was about insufficient open discussions of the
>>>> new features on the dev@ and that has been addressed by [1]
>>>>
>>>> WRT your observation: I do think the diversity part in the graduation
>>>> requirement is moot and, as this discussion shows, quite counter-productive. I
>>>> will start a separate [DISCUSS] about reconsidering its presence in the
>>>> guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://s.apache.org/vYK
>>> Seconded.
>> Makes three of us. As a mentor, I fully support graduation of this podling.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>> P.S. Also, after going through the thread, I still maintain that I have nothing
>> to add to what I've already said wrt. perception on what diversity requirement
>> really means. As somebody who's been with the IPMC for almost 5 years now
>> I would like to make an observation: we seem to get confused from time to time
>> on what the real purpose and status of the IPMC is. Perhaps this corresponds
>> to the waves of new folks joining us in which case I'm totally happy
>> with us educating
>> them on those things (I just hope it doesn't turn into an "Eternal September").
>> Perhaps instead of trying to forever hunt for yet another corner case
>> in an attempt
>> to fully document the incubation process we all could just remember that:
>> #1 our ultimate mission is to help the ASF board not waste their time with
>> communities that, if looked at as a TLP, would surely trigger
>> a board action
>> of some kind.
>> #2 The #1 goal is achieved via mentorship. In fact mentorship is
>> not even required
>> as the case of Zest (and hopeful Yetus soon) demonstrated.
>> #3 When mentorship is required IPMC entrusts the mentors to guide
>> the project to
>> graduation. It should should let them do that.
>> #4 IPMC should NOT be confused with an ASF project. This is
>> incoherent given its
>> size and composition. The Incubator is a curriculum, not a community.
>>
>> In short, I'd like to see IPMC behave more like the ASF board, and
>> provide an effective
>> oversight over the mentors not micro management. This is a tough
>> balance, I know.
>> Yet, I'm sure that folks here in general mean well and are capable of
>> striking that very
>> balance.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>
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RE: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Daniel, I agree with almost all your points about process (I do not have an opinion on Ignite, the mentors have expressed their opinion based in feedback in this thread, the IPMC will ultimately decide on whether graduation is appropriate).
My complaint about process is that these things should be uncovered and discussed during incubation not at some "gate" controlled by the IPMC but triggered by mentors sending a Discuss thread.
The IPMC absolutely should not rubber stamp things. So why is it that the report process hasn't highlighted these concerns during incubation? (a genuine question with no accusation intended)
Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Daniel Gruno<ma...@apache.org>
Sent: 7/26/2015 1:55 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org<ma...@incubator.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Apologies in advance for slightly crossing threads here.
Even though I have already sent quite a lot of emails on this subject
(12 over the past week!), I feel I must reply to some of the concerns
and opinions expressed in the last few emails. I do not like it when
concerns are answered with the notion that it is perhaps caused by the
concerned party being uneducated, as I believe there are deeper issues
at play here. Nor do I agree with any notion that the IPMC should be a
rubber stamp.
But let's get some facts straight first:
- The champion of the project created a DISCUSS thread prior to a
potential vote. Not a VOTE thread, but a DISCUSS thread. This implies
that a subject is to be reviewed and discussed.
- During this discussion thread, concerns were raised by people outside
of the IPMC.
- Members of the IPMC looked into the concerns, as any governing body
should, and while doing so, discovered other issues that were brought to
the attention of the podling. These issues ranged from bad wording,
which were unfortunately favorable to a specific company, to more
procedural issues in maintaining transparency in development.
- Some of these issues were fixed, some were debated/refuted, and some
are 'pending' later review (chiefly cultural and procedural issues raised)
The fact that the IPMC members found other issues while investigating
concerns does not, in my view, equal 'micro management'. I think it
shows that having people outside the specific podling look into it can
shed some light on matters that were perhaps overlooked by mentors, and
that is a good thing. Very specific issues were highlighted because they
showed exactly where the supposed disconnect in procedure was. I believe
having specific data points to present helps a great deal in fixing
procedures.
We can debate whether the IPMC should have found these issues earlier,
as Ross rightfully suggests, but nonetheless, the following is (I hope)
true:
The IPMC, just like the board of directors, trust the mentors - just
like the board trusts the PMCs - to do their best in reporting the true
status of a podling/project. The IPMC, just like the board, does not
rubber-stamp blindly. If concerns are raised, the IPMC, just like the
board, will look into issues, and if that search yields anything worth
asking about (even if that turns out to be some other issue found during
the investigation), then the IPMC, just like the board, will ask the
podling/project whether this is true and whether they are currently
working on fixing it or will fix it.
I fail to see the disconnect, nor do I see it as 'punishment from up
high' as was suggested. There were a few emails where the tone should
have been more polite or diplomatic (FOSSers can get quite grumpy, we
should try our best not to), but on the whole, this discussion has been
one of facts (specifically an inquiry into why the findings of some
people are inconsistent with the findings of others) and policy.
We all have day jobs, we have hobbies, we have family, we have beds we
sleep in for quite a lot of hours every day. That coupled with our other
commitments to ASF projects makes it nigh impossible to stay up to date
with what's going on in every single podling, which in turn means that
when we finally do, every single thing, that should have been mentioned
perhaps months ago, suddenly rains down on the podling within a matter
of days. This is indeed unfortunate and not always very fair to the
podling, but it is a result of how the incubator works and how people work.
This thread has been long, and I'm not interested in having it go on
forever. The IPMC has given feedback to the podling, the podling has
either complied or promised to comply with this. Given enough time for
procedural changes to become visible and consistent, I think the mentors
should then start a vote on graduation.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 2015-07-25 22:27, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 24.07.2015 21:00, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
>>> An an active mentor of the podling I do support the graduation. The last, to
>>> my knowledge, concern expressed was about insufficient open discussions of the
>>> new features on the dev@ and that has been addressed by [1]
>>>
>>> WRT your observation: I do think the diversity part in the graduation
>>> requirement is moot and, as this discussion shows, quite counter-productive. I
>>> will start a separate [DISCUSS] about reconsidering its presence in the
>>> guidelines.
>>>
>>> [1] http://s.apache.org/vYK
>> Seconded.
> Makes three of us. As a mentor, I fully support graduation of this podling.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> P.S. Also, after going through the thread, I still maintain that I have nothing
> to add to what I've already said wrt. perception on what diversity requirement
> really means. As somebody who's been with the IPMC for almost 5 years now
> I would like to make an observation: we seem to get confused from time to time
> on what the real purpose and status of the IPMC is. Perhaps this corresponds
> to the waves of new folks joining us in which case I'm totally happy
> with us educating
> them on those things (I just hope it doesn't turn into an "Eternal September").
> Perhaps instead of trying to forever hunt for yet another corner case
> in an attempt
> to fully document the incubation process we all could just remember that:
> #1 our ultimate mission is to help the ASF board not waste their time with
> communities that, if looked at as a TLP, would surely trigger
> a board action
> of some kind.
> #2 The #1 goal is achieved via mentorship. In fact mentorship is
> not even required
> as the case of Zest (and hopeful Yetus soon) demonstrated.
> #3 When mentorship is required IPMC entrusts the mentors to guide
> the project to
> graduation. It should should let them do that.
> #4 IPMC should NOT be confused with an ASF project. This is
> incoherent given its
> size and composition. The Incubator is a curriculum, not a community.
>
> In short, I'd like to see IPMC behave more like the ASF board, and
> provide an effective
> oversight over the mentors not micro management. This is a tough
> balance, I know.
> Yet, I'm sure that folks here in general mean well and are capable of
> striking that very
> balance.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
Apologies in advance for slightly crossing threads here.
Even though I have already sent quite a lot of emails on this subject
(12 over the past week!), I feel I must reply to some of the concerns
and opinions expressed in the last few emails. I do not like it when
concerns are answered with the notion that it is perhaps caused by the
concerned party being uneducated, as I believe there are deeper issues
at play here. Nor do I agree with any notion that the IPMC should be a
rubber stamp.
But let's get some facts straight first:
- The champion of the project created a DISCUSS thread prior to a
potential vote. Not a VOTE thread, but a DISCUSS thread. This implies
that a subject is to be reviewed and discussed.
- During this discussion thread, concerns were raised by people outside
of the IPMC.
- Members of the IPMC looked into the concerns, as any governing body
should, and while doing so, discovered other issues that were brought to
the attention of the podling. These issues ranged from bad wording,
which were unfortunately favorable to a specific company, to more
procedural issues in maintaining transparency in development.
- Some of these issues were fixed, some were debated/refuted, and some
are 'pending' later review (chiefly cultural and procedural issues raised)
The fact that the IPMC members found other issues while investigating
concerns does not, in my view, equal 'micro management'. I think it
shows that having people outside the specific podling look into it can
shed some light on matters that were perhaps overlooked by mentors, and
that is a good thing. Very specific issues were highlighted because they
showed exactly where the supposed disconnect in procedure was. I believe
having specific data points to present helps a great deal in fixing
procedures.
We can debate whether the IPMC should have found these issues earlier,
as Ross rightfully suggests, but nonetheless, the following is (I hope)
true:
The IPMC, just like the board of directors, trust the mentors - just
like the board trusts the PMCs - to do their best in reporting the true
status of a podling/project. The IPMC, just like the board, does not
rubber-stamp blindly. If concerns are raised, the IPMC, just like the
board, will look into issues, and if that search yields anything worth
asking about (even if that turns out to be some other issue found during
the investigation), then the IPMC, just like the board, will ask the
podling/project whether this is true and whether they are currently
working on fixing it or will fix it.
I fail to see the disconnect, nor do I see it as 'punishment from up
high' as was suggested. There were a few emails where the tone should
have been more polite or diplomatic (FOSSers can get quite grumpy, we
should try our best not to), but on the whole, this discussion has been
one of facts (specifically an inquiry into why the findings of some
people are inconsistent with the findings of others) and policy.
We all have day jobs, we have hobbies, we have family, we have beds we
sleep in for quite a lot of hours every day. That coupled with our other
commitments to ASF projects makes it nigh impossible to stay up to date
with what's going on in every single podling, which in turn means that
when we finally do, every single thing, that should have been mentioned
perhaps months ago, suddenly rains down on the podling within a matter
of days. This is indeed unfortunate and not always very fair to the
podling, but it is a result of how the incubator works and how people work.
This thread has been long, and I'm not interested in having it go on
forever. The IPMC has given feedback to the podling, the podling has
either complied or promised to comply with this. Given enough time for
procedural changes to become visible and consistent, I think the mentors
should then start a vote on graduation.
With regards,
Daniel.
On 2015-07-25 22:27, Roman Shaposhnik wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 24.07.2015 21:00, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
>>> An an active mentor of the podling I do support the graduation. The last, to
>>> my knowledge, concern expressed was about insufficient open discussions of the
>>> new features on the dev@ and that has been addressed by [1]
>>>
>>> WRT your observation: I do think the diversity part in the graduation
>>> requirement is moot and, as this discussion shows, quite counter-productive. I
>>> will start a separate [DISCUSS] about reconsidering its presence in the
>>> guidelines.
>>>
>>> [1] http://s.apache.org/vYK
>> Seconded.
> Makes three of us. As a mentor, I fully support graduation of this podling.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> P.S. Also, after going through the thread, I still maintain that I have nothing
> to add to what I've already said wrt. perception on what diversity requirement
> really means. As somebody who's been with the IPMC for almost 5 years now
> I would like to make an observation: we seem to get confused from time to time
> on what the real purpose and status of the IPMC is. Perhaps this corresponds
> to the waves of new folks joining us in which case I'm totally happy
> with us educating
> them on those things (I just hope it doesn't turn into an "Eternal September").
> Perhaps instead of trying to forever hunt for yet another corner case
> in an attempt
> to fully document the incubation process we all could just remember that:
> #1 our ultimate mission is to help the ASF board not waste their time with
> communities that, if looked at as a TLP, would surely trigger
> a board action
> of some kind.
> #2 The #1 goal is achieved via mentorship. In fact mentorship is
> not even required
> as the case of Zest (and hopeful Yetus soon) demonstrated.
> #3 When mentorship is required IPMC entrusts the mentors to guide
> the project to
> graduation. It should should let them do that.
> #4 IPMC should NOT be confused with an ASF project. This is
> incoherent given its
> size and composition. The Incubator is a curriculum, not a community.
>
> In short, I'd like to see IPMC behave more like the ASF board, and
> provide an effective
> oversight over the mentors not micro management. This is a tough
> balance, I know.
> Yet, I'm sure that folks here in general mean well and are capable of
> striking that very
> balance.
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <ro...@shaposhnik.org>.
On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 2:10 AM, Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 24.07.2015 21:00, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
>> An an active mentor of the podling I do support the graduation. The last, to
>> my knowledge, concern expressed was about insufficient open discussions of the
>> new features on the dev@ and that has been addressed by [1]
>>
>> WRT your observation: I do think the diversity part in the graduation
>> requirement is moot and, as this discussion shows, quite counter-productive. I
>> will start a separate [DISCUSS] about reconsidering its presence in the
>> guidelines.
>>
>> [1] http://s.apache.org/vYK
>
> Seconded.
Makes three of us. As a mentor, I fully support graduation of this podling.
Thanks,
Roman.
P.S. Also, after going through the thread, I still maintain that I have nothing
to add to what I've already said wrt. perception on what diversity requirement
really means. As somebody who's been with the IPMC for almost 5 years now
I would like to make an observation: we seem to get confused from time to time
on what the real purpose and status of the IPMC is. Perhaps this corresponds
to the waves of new folks joining us in which case I'm totally happy
with us educating
them on those things (I just hope it doesn't turn into an "Eternal September").
Perhaps instead of trying to forever hunt for yet another corner case
in an attempt
to fully document the incubation process we all could just remember that:
#1 our ultimate mission is to help the ASF board not waste their time with
communities that, if looked at as a TLP, would surely trigger
a board action
of some kind.
#2 The #1 goal is achieved via mentorship. In fact mentorship is
not even required
as the case of Zest (and hopeful Yetus soon) demonstrated.
#3 When mentorship is required IPMC entrusts the mentors to guide
the project to
graduation. It should should let them do that.
#4 IPMC should NOT be confused with an ASF project. This is
incoherent given its
size and composition. The Incubator is a curriculum, not a community.
In short, I'd like to see IPMC behave more like the ASF board, and
provide an effective
oversight over the mentors not micro management. This is a tough
balance, I know.
Yet, I'm sure that folks here in general mean well and are capable of
striking that very
balance.
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Branko Čibej <br...@apache.org>.
On 24.07.2015 21:00, Konstantin Boudnik wrote:
> An an active mentor of the podling I do support the graduation. The last, to
> my knowledge, concern expressed was about insufficient open discussions of the
> new features on the dev@ and that has been addressed by [1]
>
> WRT your observation: I do think the diversity part in the graduation
> requirement is moot and, as this discussion shows, quite counter-productive. I
> will start a separate [DISCUSS] about reconsidering its presence in the
> guidelines.
>
> [1] http://s.apache.org/vYK
Seconded.
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 05:36AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
>> Wow this thread has got out of control. I'm not even going to pretend that I
>> have tried to read all this while at OSCON (though I have skimmed much of
>> it). Instead I want to make one statement and make one request of the Ignite
>> mentors.
>>
>> First the request:
>>
>> Can active mentors please make a clear statement, in reply to this mail, on
>> whether you support graduation or not. I assume mentors will consider the
>> concerns expressed in this thread before making their recommendation.
>>
>> I'm asking for this because we, the IPMC, entrusted the mentors to guide the
>> project to graduation. We should let them do that.
>>
>> When I see a thread that grows to this length in just a couple of days I
>> know that it has degenerated into point scoring rather than meaningful
>> discussion. We need to reset and let the mentors start the process again by
>> summarizing their recommendation with appropriate justification that
>> considers the feedback in this thread.
>>
>> Now to the observation:
>>
>> The "requirement" for diversity did not exist when the IPMC was created and
>> I do not believe it should exist now. Over the years the IPMC has become a
>> set of gatekeepers rather than a place for mentors to guide projects into
>> the foundation. The IPMC was never meant to provide a quality control
>> process - we have the Apache Way for that.
>>
>> Our intent was, and I believe still should be, that graduating projects
>> understand (among other things) what diversity means and how it is built in
>> Apache projects. Only the mentors and active project community members can
>> make this judgement.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ross
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Konstantin Boudnik [mailto:cos@boudnik.org]
>> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 6:27 PM
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
>>
>> Thanks for kicking off this discussion, Dmirtiy.
>>
>> As one of the mentors I think this podling is ready to get graduated. The process of "indocrInating" this group of people into the Apache Way was not always a walk in a park and we had our share of heated discussions. But the fact that the community converged into the ASF way of doing things and did it with open face makes me believe that the goal of the incubation has been achieved. There's nothing for me as a mentor to help this podling with.
>>
>> No, scratch that. One last thing I want to do. Here it is: before we submit this resolution to the IPMC vote, let's remove the following paragraph:
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and increased participation in the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>
>> There's clearly no need to create any special bylaws unless the project needs to amend the common and minimal set of ASF bylaws. Having more laws makes a project worst off not better. Hence, I move to remove this clause completely.
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Cos
>>
>> On July 20, 2015 4:36:48 PM PDT, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Hello Apache Incubator,
>>>
>>> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>>> consensus and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of
>>> proposing graduation to TLP.
>>>
>>> Vote thread:
>>> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apa
>>> che-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>>>
>>> Summary of the vote results:
>>> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>>>
>>> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
>>> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
>>> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
>>> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
>>> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
>>> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
>>> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
>>> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
>>> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
>>> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
>>> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
>>> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
>>> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
>>> 14. Milap Wadwa
>>>
>>> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
>>> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>>>
>>> Below is our proposed resolution:
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>>>
>>> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>>>
>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
>>> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
>>> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
>>> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
>>> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
>>> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
>>> information between systems.
>>>
>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
>>> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
>>> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
>>> Foundation; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
>>> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
>>> related to the automated and managed flow of information
>>> between systems and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
>>> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
>>> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
>>> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
>>> for management of the projects within the scope of
>>> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
>>> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
>>> Apache Ignite Project:
>>>
>>> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
>>> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
>>> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
>>> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
>>> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
>>> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
>>> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
>>> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
>>> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
>>> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
>>> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
>>> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
>>> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
>>> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
>>> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
>>> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
>>> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
>>> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
>>> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
>>> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
>>> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>>>
>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
>>> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
>>> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
>>> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
>>> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
>>> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
>>> and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
>>> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
>>> encourage open development and increased participation in the
>>> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
>>> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
>>> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>>>
>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
>>> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
>>> Project are hereafter discharged.
>>
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>>
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
An an active mentor of the podling I do support the graduation. The last, to
my knowledge, concern expressed was about insufficient open discussions of the
new features on the dev@ and that has been addressed by [1]
WRT your observation: I do think the diversity part in the graduation
requirement is moot and, as this discussion shows, quite counter-productive. I
will start a separate [DISCUSS] about reconsidering its presence in the
guidelines.
[1] http://s.apache.org/vYK
Cos
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 05:36AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Wow this thread has got out of control. I'm not even going to pretend that I
> have tried to read all this while at OSCON (though I have skimmed much of
> it). Instead I want to make one statement and make one request of the Ignite
> mentors.
>
> First the request:
>
> Can active mentors please make a clear statement, in reply to this mail, on
> whether you support graduation or not. I assume mentors will consider the
> concerns expressed in this thread before making their recommendation.
>
> I'm asking for this because we, the IPMC, entrusted the mentors to guide the
> project to graduation. We should let them do that.
>
> When I see a thread that grows to this length in just a couple of days I
> know that it has degenerated into point scoring rather than meaningful
> discussion. We need to reset and let the mentors start the process again by
> summarizing their recommendation with appropriate justification that
> considers the feedback in this thread.
>
> Now to the observation:
>
> The "requirement" for diversity did not exist when the IPMC was created and
> I do not believe it should exist now. Over the years the IPMC has become a
> set of gatekeepers rather than a place for mentors to guide projects into
> the foundation. The IPMC was never meant to provide a quality control
> process - we have the Apache Way for that.
>
> Our intent was, and I believe still should be, that graduating projects
> understand (among other things) what diversity means and how it is built in
> Apache projects. Only the mentors and active project community members can
> make this judgement.
>
> Thanks,
> Ross
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Konstantin Boudnik [mailto:cos@boudnik.org]
> Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 6:27 PM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
>
> Thanks for kicking off this discussion, Dmirtiy.
>
> As one of the mentors I think this podling is ready to get graduated. The process of "indocrInating" this group of people into the Apache Way was not always a walk in a park and we had our share of heated discussions. But the fact that the community converged into the ASF way of doing things and did it with open face makes me believe that the goal of the incubation has been achieved. There's nothing for me as a mentor to help this podling with.
>
> No, scratch that. One last thing I want to do. Here it is: before we submit this resolution to the IPMC vote, let's remove the following paragraph:
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and increased participation in the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> There's clearly no need to create any special bylaws unless the project needs to amend the common and minimal set of ASF bylaws. Having more laws makes a project worst off not better. Hence, I move to remove this clause completely.
> --
> Regards,
> Cos
>
> On July 20, 2015 4:36:48 PM PDT, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
> >Hello Apache Incubator,
> >
> >At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
> >consensus and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of
> >proposing graduation to TLP.
> >
> >Vote thread:
> >http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apa
> >che-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
> >
> >Summary of the vote results:
> >+1 (non-binding) = 14
> >
> > 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> > 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> > 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> > 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> > 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> > 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> > 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> > 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> > 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> > 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> > 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> > 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> > 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> > 14. Milap Wadwa
> >
> >We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> >within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
> >
> >Below is our proposed resolution:
> >
> >Thank you
> >Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
> >
> >SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> > interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> > Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> > Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> > open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> > the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> > information between systems.
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> > Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> > be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> > Foundation; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> > responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> > related to the automated and managed flow of information
> > between systems and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> > and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> > serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> > of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> > for management of the projects within the scope of
> > responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> > hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> > Apache Ignite Project:
> >
> > Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> > Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> > Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> > Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> > Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> > Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> > Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> > Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> > Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> > Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> > Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> > Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> > Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> > Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> > Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> > Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> > Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> > Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> > Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> > Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> > Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
> >
> > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> > Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> > Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> > direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> > Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> > disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> > and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> > tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> > encourage open development and increased participation in the
> > Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> > is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> > Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
> >
> > RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> > Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> > Project are hereafter discharged.
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
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RE: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Ross Gardler <Ro...@microsoft.com>.
Wow this thread has got out of control. I'm not even going to pretend that I have tried to read all this while at OSCON (though I have skimmed much of it). Instead I want to make one statement and make one request of the Ignite mentors.
First the request:
Can active mentors please make a clear statement, in reply to this mail, on whether you support graduation or not. I assume mentors will consider the concerns expressed in this thread before making their recommendation.
I'm asking for this because we, the IPMC, entrusted the mentors to guide the project to graduation. We should let them do that.
When I see a thread that grows to this length in just a couple of days I know that it has degenerated into point scoring rather than meaningful discussion. We need to reset and let the mentors start the process again by summarizing their recommendation with appropriate justification that considers the feedback in this thread.
Now to the observation:
The "requirement" for diversity did not exist when the IPMC was created and I do not believe it should exist now. Over the years the IPMC has become a set of gatekeepers rather than a place for mentors to guide projects into the foundation. The IPMC was never meant to provide a quality control process - we have the Apache Way for that.
Our intent was, and I believe still should be, that graduating projects understand (among other things) what diversity means and how it is built in Apache projects. Only the mentors and active project community members can make this judgement.
Thanks,
Ross
-----Original Message-----
From: Konstantin Boudnik [mailto:cos@boudnik.org]
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2015 6:27 PM
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Thanks for kicking off this discussion, Dmirtiy.
As one of the mentors I think this podling is ready to get graduated. The process of "indocrInating" this group of people into the Apache Way was not always a walk in a park and we had our share of heated discussions. But the fact that the community converged into the ASF way of doing things and did it with open face makes me believe that the goal of the incubation has been achieved. There's nothing for me as a mentor to help this podling with.
No, scratch that. One last thing I want to do. Here it is: before we submit this resolution to the IPMC vote, let's remove the following paragraph:
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to encourage open development and increased participation in the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
There's clearly no need to create any special bylaws unless the project needs to amend the common and minimal set of ASF bylaws. Having more laws makes a project worst off not better. Hence, I move to remove this clause completely.
--
Regards,
Cos
On July 20, 2015 4:36:48 PM PDT, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
>Hello Apache Incubator,
>
>At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>consensus and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of
>proposing graduation to TLP.
>
>Vote thread:
>http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apa
>che-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>
>Summary of the vote results:
>+1 (non-binding) = 14
>
> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> 14. Milap Wadwa
>
>We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
>within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>
>Below is our proposed resolution:
>
>Thank you
>Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>
>SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> information between systems.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> between systems and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> for management of the projects within the scope of
> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Ignite Project:
>
> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> Project are hereafter discharged.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@boudnik.org>.
Thanks for kicking off this discussion, Dmirtiy.
As one of the mentors I think this podling is ready to get graduated. The process of "indocrInating" this group of people into the Apache Way was not always a walk in a park and we had our share of heated discussions. But the fact that the community converged into the ASF way of doing things and did it with open face makes me believe that the goal of the incubation has been achieved. There's nothing for me as a mentor to help this podling with.
No, scratch that. One last thing I want to do. Here it is: before we submit this resolution to the IPMC vote, let's remove the following paragraph:
RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
encourage open development and increased participation in the
Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
There's clearly no need to create any special bylaws unless the project needs to amend the common and minimal set of ASF bylaws. Having more laws makes a project worst off not better. Hence, I move to remove this clause completely.
--
Regards,
Cos
On July 20, 2015 4:36:48 PM PDT, Dmitriy Setrakyan <ds...@apache.org> wrote:
>Hello Apache Incubator,
>
>At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established
>consensus
>and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
>graduation to TLP.
>
>Vote thread:
>http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>
>Summary of the vote results:
>+1 (non-binding) = 14
>
> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> 14. Milap Wadwa
>
>We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
>within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>
>Below is our proposed resolution:
>
>Thank you
>Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>
>SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> information between systems.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> between systems and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> for management of the projects within the scope of
> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Ignite Project:
>
> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> Project are hereafter discharged.
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Re: [DISCUSSION] Graduate Ignite from the Apache Incubator
Posted by Konstantin Boudnik <co...@apache.org>.
Congratulation - this is the longest [DISCUSS] thread on a podling graduation
in the last 4 years (since ACE). Musta be some sort of record or something!
Cos
On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 04:36PM, Dmitriy Setrakyan wrote:
> Hello Apache Incubator,
>
> At the suggestion of our mentors the Ignite community established consensus
> and held a successful vote with 14 +1 votes in favor of proposing
> graduation to TLP.
>
> Vote thread:
> http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/VOTE-Graduate-Apache-Ignite-from-Incubation-td1539.html
>
> Summary of the vote results:
> +1 (non-binding) = 14
>
> 1. Yakov Zhdanov (PMC)
> 2. Gianfranco Murador (PMC)
> 3. Ira Vasilinets (PMC)
> 4. Nikolai Tichinov (PMC)
> 5. Semyon Boikov (PMC)
> 6. Sergi Vladykin (PMC)
> 7. Alexey Goncharuk (PMC)
> 8. Ognen Duzlevski (PMC)
> 9. Valentin Kulichenko (PMC)
> 10. Nikita Ivanov (PMC)
> 11. Dmitriy Setrakyan (PMC)
> 12. Andrey Novikov (Committer)
> 13. Alexey Kuznetsov (Committer)
> 14. Milap Wadwa
>
> We’d like to initiate this discussion/proposal to establish a consensus
> within the incubator and if appropriate will initiate a vote.
>
> Below is our proposed resolution:
>
> Thank you
> Dmitriy Setrakyan(on behalf of the Apache Ignite PPMC)
>
> SUBJECT: Establish the Apache Ignite TLP
>
> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best
> interests of the Foundation and consistent with the
> Foundation's purpose to establish a Project Management
> Committee charged with the creation and maintenance of
> open-source software, for distribution at no charge to
> the public, related to the automated and managed flow of
> information between systems.
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management
> Committee (PMC), to be known as the "Apache Ignite Project",
> be and hereby is established pursuant to Bylaws of the
> Foundation; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby is
> responsible for the creation and maintenance of software
> related to the automated and managed flow of information
> between systems and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache Ignite" be
> and hereby is created, the person holding such office to
> serve at the direction of the Board of Directors as the chair
> of the Apache Ignite Project, and to have primary responsibility
> for management of the projects within the scope of
> responsibility of the Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and
> hereby are appointed to serve as the initial members of the
> Apache Ignite Project:
>
> Semyon Boikov (sboikov@apache.org)
> Konstantin Boudnik (cos@apache.org)
> Branko Čibej (brane@apache.org)
> Ognen Duzlevski (maketo@apache.org)
> Sergey Evdokimov (sevdokimov@apache.org)
> Alexey Goncharuk (agoncharuk@apache.org)
> Nikita Ivanov (nivanov30@apache.org)
> Sergey Khisamov (skh@apache.org)
> Valentin Kulichenko (vkulichenko@apache.org)
> Alexey Kuznetsov (akuznetsov@apache.org)
> Gianfranco Murador (murador@apache.org)
> Andrey Novikov (anovikov@apache.org)
> Vladimir Ozerov (vozerov@apache.org)
> Dmitriy Setrakyan (dsetrakyan@apache.org)
> Roman Shaposhnik (rvs@apache.org)
> Ilya Sterin (isterin@apache.org)
> Nikolai Tikhonov (ntikhonov@apache.org)
> Irina Vasilinets (ivasilinets@apache.org)
> Anton Vinogradov (av@apache.org)
> Sergey Vladykin (svladykin@apache.org)
> Evans Ye (evansye@apache.org)
> Yakov Zhdanov (yzhdanov@apache.org)
>
> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that
> Dmitriy Setrakyan be appointed to the office of Vice President,
> Apache Ignite, to serve in accordance with and subject to the
> direction of the Board of Directors and the Bylaws of the
> Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, removal or
> disqualification, or until a successor is appointed;
> and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the initial Apache Ignite PMC be and hereby is
> tasked with the creation of a set of bylaws intended to
> encourage open development and increased participation in the
> Apache Ignite Project; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that the Apache Ignite Project be and hereby
> is tasked with the migration and rationalization of the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling; and be it further
>
> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache
> Incubator Ignite podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator
> Project are hereafter discharged.