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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Fernando <fr...@easyjob.net> on 2009/03/04 19:15:23 UTC
Is Cocoon the right tool?
Hi,
First of all, I'm a newbie, so please bear with me in case any question is
unacceptably idiotic. O:-)
<newbie-asbestos-underwear>
I'm considering Cocoon for a new project, but being completely new to this
area I'm not 100% sure if it's the right tool for the job.
I need to generate complex documents from an xml file. There are 2 steps in
the doc generation:
(a) Step 1: No formatting is applied, only the content and structure of the
original xml doc is transformed by a series of hairy rules. I was planning
to use Jess (www.jessrules.com) for this first part and generate a final
xml doc, ready for step 2.
(b) Step 2: The document created by step 1 should be rendered into a
gazillion different formats (different layout, fonts, styles, etc...). The
output should be: RTF, PDF and HTML. MS Word .DOC would be a plus, but not
necessary.
Can Cocoon help with Step 2 without requiring significant programming on my
side? Where can I find examples of layout and format definitions for Cocoon?
</newbie-asbestos-underwear>
Thanks in advance,
Fernando
Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org>.
Mika Lehtonen wrote:
> Secondly, I used that plus sign as an AND operator in order the reader
> to differ these two concepts which in principal aren't even parallel and
> are two individual concepts. I can see I failed in that.
Well, I failed to notice the plus sign ;)
> What I meant,
> is that in order to finish his assignment with Cocoon, Fernando probably
> would need to write sitemaps as well XSL and other stuff.
It's clear now, and I agree.
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Mika Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Luca,
first of all, you're right about the thing that we do know almost
nothing about the overall architecture. I seem to have a sort of a bias
nowadays. Forgive me that. It just when I was looking
http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
examples and wondering if those are possible with Cocoon, the whole
question interpret in my brains into something else.
Secondly, I used that plus sign as an AND operator in order the reader
to differ these two concepts which in principal aren't even parallel and
are two individual concepts. I can see I failed in that. What I meant,
is that in order to finish his assignment with Cocoon, Fernando probably
would need to write sitemaps as well XSL and other stuff.
- mika -
Luca Morandini kirjoitti:
> Mika Lehtonen wrote:
>> 2) While looking your examples, I can't help myself thinking what you
>> really are expecting Cocoon to be. Usually creating fancy layouts
>> with numerous graphics and effects are connected in our minds to
>> software with a powerful graphical user interface. What can you do
>> graphically in Cocoon. Nothing, because it's a web development
>> framework not a desktop design software.
>
> Look, we don't know much about the overall architecture of the system:
> just possibly, there is a graphic "thing" to let the user design a
> template and store it as XML for later re-use, with Cocoon being used
> only at this last stage.
>
>
>> So you have to be prepared in coding, although you can do a lot in
>> Cocoon without using any particular programming language. But still
>> you have to learn also "Cocoon language" + for example XSL-FO
>
> I beg to differ: XSL-FO is not related to Cocoon, same for XSLT... it
> just happens that Cocoon users typically use XSLT a lot.
>
> Regards,
>
> --------------------
> Luca Morandini
> www.lucamorandini.it
> --------------------
>
>
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org>.
Mika Lehtonen wrote:
> 2) While looking your examples, I can't help myself thinking what you
> really are expecting Cocoon to be. Usually creating fancy layouts with
> numerous graphics and effects are connected in our minds to software
> with a powerful graphical user interface. What can you do graphically in
> Cocoon. Nothing, because it's a web development framework not a desktop
> design software.
Look, we don't know much about the overall architecture of the system:
just possibly, there is a graphic "thing" to let the user design a
template and store it as XML for later re-use, with Cocoon being used
only at this last stage.
> So you have to be prepared in coding, although you can
> do a lot in Cocoon without using any particular programming language.
> But still you have to learn also "Cocoon language" + for example XSL-FO
I beg to differ: XSL-FO is not related to Cocoon, same for XSLT... it
just happens that Cocoon users typically use XSLT a lot.
Regards,
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
--------------------
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Mika Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Indeed it's an *interesting* assignment. Two things popped up in my mind:
1) Using Cocoon's sitemap and its components can be very enlightening
experience. They really do are powerfull.
2) While looking your examples, I can't help myself thinking what you
really are expecting Cocoon to be. Usually creating fancy layouts with
numerous graphics and effects are connected in our minds to software
with a powerful graphical user interface. What can you do graphically in
Cocoon. Nothing, because it's a web development framework not a desktop
design software. So you have to be prepared in coding, although you can
do a lot in Cocoon without using any particular programming language.
But still you have to learn also "Cocoon language" + for example XSL-FO
etc..
- mika -
Luca Morandini kirjoitti:
> Fernando wrote:
>>
>>>> Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
>>>> http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
>>> Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS. Cocoon
>>> would return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats) without any
>>> particular style information. You would just need to ensure that the
>>> HTML elements have appropriate id's.
>>
>> But how would this apply to rtf or pdf? I mean, there's no equivalent
>> of CSS
>> for those formats...
>
> Embedding graphics is possible with both PDF and RTF, though they use
> a completely different syntax from CSS.
>
> Therefore, for PDF you would have to manually write "translators" from
> XML to FO using XSLT, than Cocoon would take care of transforming FO
> to PDF... I guess you would have to do something similar for RTF
> (never tried).
>
> Seems to me a rather... hmm... *interesting* assignment ;)
>
> Regards,
>
> --------------------
> Luca Morandini
> www.lucamorandini.it
> --------------------
>
>
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Re: Flowscript parameters access
Posted by Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org>.
Jose Luis Carmona wrote:
>
> I'm building a generator Who will be invoked from a flowscript Who pass
> a JSONObject. I want to access to this JSONObject from the generator but
> i don't know how to do that.
>
> In my flowscript I use
>
> cocoon.sendPage("foo", JSONObject);
More probably something like:
cocoon.sendPage("foo", {json: JSONObject});
> <map:match pattern="foo">
> <map:generate type="fooGenerator"/>
> <map:transform type="xmldb"/>
> <map:serialize type="xml"/>
> </map:match>
Almost, let's reshuffle the generation stage a bit:
<map:generate type="fooGenerator">
<map:parameter name="json" value="{flow-attr:json}"/>
</map:generate>
> I think I have to access to the JSONObject from the method "configure"
> inside my "fooGenerator".
Not quite: "configure" is used to set the component in the <generators>
section of the sitemap, while "setup" is used to retrieve parameters
specified in the pipeline (i.e. the generation stage).
To get "json" you have to search it in the "parameters" argument passed
to the "setup" method of your generator.
Regards,
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
--------------------
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Flowscript parameters access
Posted by Jose Luis Carmona <jl...@integromics.com>.
Hi all,
I'm building a generator Who will be invoked from a flowscript Who pass
a JSONObject. I want to access to this JSONObject from the generator but
i don't know how to do that.
In my flowscript I use
cocoon.sendPage("foo", JSONObject);
In my sitemap
<map:match pattern="foo">
<map:generate type="fooGenerator"/>
<map:transform type="xmldb"/>
<map:serialize type="xml"/>
</map:match>
I think I have to access to the JSONObject from the method "configure"
inside my "fooGenerator".
Could You help me?
Thanks a lot,
Jose.
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Philippe GAUTHIER <ph...@inserm.fr>.
Hello,
Well Birt use css-styles under the hood, you can even prepare them before hand.
You can even embed html, background images are supported, ...
A good exemple :
http://www.richclient2.eu/2006_11_17/eclipse-birt-a-cases-study/
So what would be thoses limitations exactly?
I would more expect a performence issue, because the rendering time is
definitly longer.
Then the scale of CV and their design evolution period would be the
crieria too choose a solution.
Best regards,
Philippe
2009/3/5 Jean-Christophe Kermagoret <jc...@bluexml.com>:
> Hi,
> Birt is not the right tool to make very customized outputs like CVs. Layout
> is very limited and I think xhtml+css is more powerful.
>
> JC
>
> Philippe GAUTHIER a écrit :
>>
>> Hello all,
>> I would personnaly use cocoon for its pipelines and to control the
>> workflow of data (step 1).
>> But I would use BIRT ( http://www.eclipse.org/birt/phoenix/ ) as the
>> rendering engine which has a great UI for designer and cover all the
>> format he wants (step 2).
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Philippe
>>
>> 2009/3/5 Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>:
>>
>>>
>>> I see it says:
>>> "The tool has a command-line interface"
>>> I wonder how feasible it would be to convert into a
>>> module usable by Cocoon (including the 2.1.x series)
>>> from within a sitemap?
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2009/03/05 at 09:08, in message <go...@ger.gmane.org>, Luca
>>>>>> Morandini <lm...@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> Jean-Christophe Kermagoret wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> Just have a look at the following link:
>>>> * http://re.be/css2xslfo/index.xhtml
>>>>
>>>> Used in conjunction with Cocoon, I think it could be a kill app.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Wow ! Looks great.
>>>
>>> --------------------
>>> Luca Morandini
>>> www.lucamorandini.it
>>> --------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions,
>>> e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Jean-Christophe Kermagoret
> Directeur associe
>
> BlueXML
> 40, bd Jean Ingres
> 44100 Nantes
>
> Tel. : +33.2.40.46.62.78
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Jean-Christophe Kermagoret <jc...@bluexml.com>.
Hi,
Birt is not the right tool to make very customized outputs like CVs.
Layout is very limited and I think xhtml+css is more powerful.
JC
Philippe GAUTHIER a écrit :
> Hello all,
> I would personnaly use cocoon for its pipelines and to control the
> workflow of data (step 1).
> But I would use BIRT ( http://www.eclipse.org/birt/phoenix/ ) as the
> rendering engine which has a great UI for designer and cover all the
> format he wants (step 2).
>
> Best regards,
> Philippe
>
> 2009/3/5 Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>:
>
>> I see it says:
>> "The tool has a command-line interface"
>> I wonder how feasible it would be to convert into a
>> module usable by Cocoon (including the 2.1.x series)
>> from within a sitemap?
>>
>>
>>>>> On 2009/03/05 at 09:08, in message <go...@ger.gmane.org>, Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>> Jean-Christophe Kermagoret wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> Just have a look at the following link:
>>> * http://re.be/css2xslfo/index.xhtml
>>>
>>> Used in conjunction with Cocoon, I think it could be a kill app.
>>>
>> Wow ! Looks great.
>>
>> --------------------
>> Luca Morandini
>> www.lucamorandini.it
>> --------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.
>> The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html.
>>
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner,
>> and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support.
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
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>
--
Jean-Christophe Kermagoret
Directeur associe
BlueXML
40, bd Jean Ingres
44100 Nantes
Tel. : +33.2.40.46.62.78
Mob. : +33.6.08.56.83.80
BlueXML : http://www.bluexml.com
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Philippe GAUTHIER <ph...@inserm.fr>.
Hello all,
I would personnaly use cocoon for its pipelines and to control the
workflow of data (step 1).
But I would use BIRT ( http://www.eclipse.org/birt/phoenix/ ) as the
rendering engine which has a great UI for designer and cover all the
format he wants (step 2).
Best regards,
Philippe
2009/3/5 Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>:
> I see it says:
> "The tool has a command-line interface"
> I wonder how feasible it would be to convert into a
> module usable by Cocoon (including the 2.1.x series)
> from within a sitemap?
>
>>>> On 2009/03/05 at 09:08, in message <go...@ger.gmane.org>, Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org> wrote:
> Jean-Christophe Kermagoret wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Just have a look at the following link:
>> * http://re.be/css2xslfo/index.xhtml
>>
>> Used in conjunction with Cocoon, I think it could be a kill app.
>
> Wow ! Looks great.
>
> --------------------
> Luca Morandini
> www.lucamorandini.it
> --------------------
>
>
>
>
> --
> This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.
> The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html.
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner,
> and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks Transtec Computers for their support.
>
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Derek Hohls <DH...@csir.co.za>.
I see it says:
"The tool has a command-line interface"
I wonder how feasible it would be to convert into a
module usable by Cocoon (including the 2.1.x series)
from within a sitemap?
>>> On 2009/03/05 at 09:08, in message <go...@ger.gmane.org>, Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org> wrote:
Jean-Christophe Kermagoret wrote:
> Hi,
> Just have a look at the following link:
> * http://re.be/css2xslfo/index.xhtml
>
> Used in conjunction with Cocoon, I think it could be a kill app.
Wow ! Looks great.
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
--------------------
--
This message is subject to the CSIR's copyright terms and conditions, e-mail legal notice, and implemented Open Document Format (ODF) standard.
The full disclaimer details can be found at http://www.csir.co.za/disclaimer.html.
This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner,
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org>.
Jean-Christophe Kermagoret wrote:
> Hi,
> Just have a look at the following link:
> * http://re.be/css2xslfo/index.xhtml
>
> Used in conjunction with Cocoon, I think it could be a kill app.
Wow ! Looks great.
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
--------------------
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Jean-Christophe Kermagoret <jc...@bluexml.com>.
Hi,
Just have a look at the following link:
* http://re.be/css2xslfo/index.xhtml
Used in conjunction with Cocoon, I think it could be a kill app.
JC
Luca Morandini a écrit :
> Fernando wrote:
>>
>>>> Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
>>>> http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
>>> Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS. Cocoon
>>> would return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats) without any
>>> particular style information. You would just need to ensure that the
>>> HTML elements have appropriate id's.
>>
>> But how would this apply to rtf or pdf? I mean, there's no equivalent
>> of CSS
>> for those formats...
>
> Embedding graphics is possible with both PDF and RTF, though they use
> a completely different syntax from CSS.
>
> Therefore, for PDF you would have to manually write "translators" from
> XML to FO using XSLT, than Cocoon would take care of transforming FO
> to PDF... I guess you would have to do something similar for RTF
> (never tried).
>
> Seems to me a rather... hmm... *interesting* assignment ;)
>
> Regards,
>
> --------------------
> Luca Morandini
> www.lucamorandini.it
> --------------------
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@cocoon.apache.org
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--
Jean-Christophe Kermagoret
Directeur associe
BlueXML
40, bd Jean Ingres
44100 Nantes
Tel. : +33.2.40.46.62.78
Mob. : +33.6.08.56.83.80
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org>.
Fernando wrote:
>
>>> Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
>>> http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
>> Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS.
>> Cocoon would return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats)
>> without any particular style information. You would just need
>> to ensure that the HTML elements have appropriate id's.
>
> But how would this apply to rtf or pdf? I mean, there's no equivalent of CSS
> for those formats...
Embedding graphics is possible with both PDF and RTF, though they use a
completely different syntax from CSS.
Therefore, for PDF you would have to manually write "translators" from
XML to FO using XSLT, than Cocoon would take care of transforming FO to
PDF... I guess you would have to do something similar for RTF (never tried).
Seems to me a rather... hmm... *interesting* assignment ;)
Regards,
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
--------------------
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Mika Lehtonen <mi...@digikartta.net>.
Hi Fernando,
I guess you would have to produce your PDF (PS) through Apache FOP.
According to my experience, you can easily end up into big troubles with
it, because
a) you have to design your templates by coding and if there is a
graphical editor available for XSL-FO (don't know), you still end up
into troubles,
b) because FOP is still quite far from the standard (see:
http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/fop/compliance.html), especially 0.20.5.
On the other hand, after you have created templates, it does work well.
But as said, if your needs are demanding, it can happen so that FOP
isn't yet ready enough. Also the whole XSL-FO is a little "stiff". And
this would only cover one or two formats.. You still need to create
stylesheets ("templates") to other formats as well.
- mika -
Fernando kirjoitti:
>
>
>>> Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
>>> http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
>>>
>> Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS.
>> Cocoon would return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats)
>> without any particular style information. You would just need
>> to ensure that the HTML elements have appropriate id's.
>>
>
> But how would this apply to rtf or pdf? I mean, there's no equivalent of CSS
> for those formats...
>
>
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Andre Juffer <aj...@sun3.oulu.fi>.
Fernando wrote:
>
>>> Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
>>> http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
>> Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS.
>> Cocoon would return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats)
>> without any particular style information. You would just need
>> to ensure that the HTML elements have appropriate id's.
>
> But how would this apply to rtf or pdf? I mean, there's no equivalent of CSS
> for those formats...
With xsl stylesheets. The actual transformation is performed with the
pipelines.
TRhis all is well document on the cocoon website.
>
>
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RE: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Fernando <fr...@easyjob.net>.
> > Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
> > http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
>
> Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS.
> Cocoon would return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats)
> without any particular style information. You would just need
> to ensure that the HTML elements have appropriate id's.
But how would this apply to rtf or pdf? I mean, there's no equivalent of CSS
for those formats...
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Andre Juffer <aj...@sun3.oulu.fi>.
Fernando wrote:
>
> Hi Luca,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>> Can Cocoon help with Step 2 without requiring significant
>> programming
>>> on my side?
>> Definitively.
>>
>
> Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
> http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
Many, if not all, of these layouts can be created with CSS. Cocoon would
return clean (X)HTML (and many other formats) without any particular
style information. You would just need to ensure that the HTML elements
have appropriate id's.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
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>
--
Andre H. Juffer | Phone: +358-8-553 1161
Biocenter Oulu and | Fax: +358-8-553-1141
Department of Biochemistry | Email: andre.juffer@oulu.fi
University of Oulu, Finland | WWW: www.biochem.oulu.fi/Biocomputing/
StruBioCat | WWW: www.strubiocat.oulu.fi
NordProt | WWW: www.nordprot.org
Triacle Biocomputing | WWW: www.triacle-bc.com
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RE: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Fernando <fr...@easyjob.net>.
Hi Luca,
> -----Original Message-----
>
> > Can Cocoon help with Step 2 without requiring significant
> programming
> > on my side?
>
> Definitively.
>
Just to make sure, are layouts like these possible?
http://jobmob.co.il/blog/more-beautiful-resume-ideas-that-work/
Thanks!
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Re: Is Cocoon the right tool?
Posted by Luca Morandini <lm...@ieee.org>.
Fernando wrote:
> Can Cocoon help with Step 2 without requiring significant programming on
> my side?
Definitively.
> Where can I find examples of layout and format definitions for
> Cocoon?
Some pointers:
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/howto/howto-html-pdf-publishing.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/userdocs/pdf-serializer.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/apidocs/org/apache/cocoon/serialization/RTFSerializer.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/userdocs/html-serializer.html
http://cocoon.apache.org/2.1/userdocs/xml-serializer.html
And there's something on Microsoft Word and Excel in Cocoon too, via
Apache POI (I never used that, though).
Regards,
--------------------
Luca Morandini
www.lucamorandini.it
--------------------
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