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Posted to dev@vxquery.apache.org by Till <ti...@westmann.org> on 2013/07/10 21:36:30 UTC
July 2013 report
Hi,
the July 2013 report is ready for review and/or sign-off at:
https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/July2013
Cheers,
Till
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>wrote:
> What kind of Mentor activity do you think VXQuery would benefit from?
I don't think, there are any pressing issues. Basically, as I know from my
own experience, you can feel kinda lost, if mentors aren't actively
participating in every day's issues, which I am clearly not.
Jochen
--
"That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make friends
with the bully!"
Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably
> avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more
> ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list.
>
> Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally
> effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a
> big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from
> discussions on general@i.a.o.
>
> I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the
> occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within
> the ASF.
OK, I'll indulge, then[1]. :)
I think you're right to prioritize getting a release out the door. Releases
are important not just for the features, but also for regenerating the energy
around a product in the wider community. "Real artists ship." -- Steve Jobs
Since you've made it as far as creating two release candidates, presumably
there is not anything structural (such as a stalled code grant) holding things
up. Here's where the two previous release candidate vote threads ended:
http://markmail.org/message/d6r7ucnymzlzun62
http://markmail.org/message/fmy7zw6gmm2ahozp
Getting a first incubating release out can be labor-intensive and the process
is sometimes frustrating. Wrangling IPMC votes is a hassle, and it gets
harder the longer a podling is incubation because Mentors, like all
open-source contributors, come and go. Even for podling contributors who are
truly voracious consumers of Apache documentation, it's hard to produce a
release candidate which encounters no objections from IPMC members.
Nevertheless, dozens of other podlings have bulled their way through this
phase. The IPMC may not be as efficient or as coherent as we would like it to
be; things may not go "smoothly". However, if there is sufficient energy
behind VXQuery (and no legal blockers with regards to the code base), your
release *will* get through eventually. And while occasionally a podling will
have a Mentor who brings that kind of energy, that's not our expectation for
those who fill the Mentor role -- most often, it is the podling's core
contributors who must provide the push and sustain the momentum.
Marvin Humphrey
[1] We sometimes have problems where IPMC members who are not Mentors assigned
to a specific podling provide guidance which is at odds with what the
podling's Mentors have advised. Let's hope that the content of this mail
is suitably general and non-controversial.
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Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably
> avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more
> ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list.
>
> Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally
> effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a
> big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from
> discussions on general@i.a.o.
>
> I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the
> occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within
> the ASF.
OK, I'll indulge, then[1]. :)
I think you're right to prioritize getting a release out the door. Releases
are important not just for the features, but also for regenerating the energy
around a product in the wider community. "Real artists ship." -- Steve Jobs
Since you've made it as far as creating two release candidates, presumably
there is not anything structural (such as a stalled code grant) holding things
up. Here's where the two previous release candidate vote threads ended:
http://markmail.org/message/d6r7ucnymzlzun62
http://markmail.org/message/fmy7zw6gmm2ahozp
Getting a first incubating release out can be labor-intensive and the process
is sometimes frustrating. Wrangling IPMC votes is a hassle, and it gets
harder the longer a podling is incubation because Mentors, like all
open-source contributors, come and go. Even for podling contributors who are
truly voracious consumers of Apache documentation, it's hard to produce a
release candidate which encounters no objections from IPMC members.
Nevertheless, dozens of other podlings have bulled their way through this
phase. The IPMC may not be as efficient or as coherent as we would like it to
be; things may not go "smoothly". However, if there is sufficient energy
behind VXQuery (and no legal blockers with regards to the code base), your
release *will* get through eventually. And while occasionally a podling will
have a Mentor who brings that kind of energy, that's not our expectation for
those who fill the Mentor role -- most often, it is the podling's core
contributors who must provide the push and sustain the momentum.
Marvin Humphrey
[1] We sometimes have problems where IPMC members who are not Mentors assigned
to a specific podling provide guidance which is at odds with what the
podling's Mentors have advised. Let's hope that the content of this mail
is suitably general and non-controversial.
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org>.
Hello Marvin,
On Jul 18, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>> Are you having difficulty getting releases reviewed? (That's a classic pain
>> point for podlings that have been around for a while.) By the way, when was
>> the last release? "Date of last release" is in the podling report template,
>> but it wasn't in the report that was filed. I tried to figure it out by
>> looking at <http://incubator.apache.org/projects/vxquery.html> but it wasn't
>> there, nor was there an obvious download page on the podling website at
>> <http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/>.
>
> Gah, sorry, I misread your report, which contained this line:
>
> The most important issue to address in the move towards graduation is
> still the first release. Two release candidates have been created and
> rejected so far. The third release candiate is not ready yet.
>
> This thread is also germane:
>
> http://markmail.org/thread/4gok66zibfwt6mzw
>
> VXQuery release needs votes
Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list.
Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from discussions on general@i.a.o.
I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within the ASF.
Till
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Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org>.
Hello Marvin,
On Jul 18, 2013, at 8:30 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
>> Are you having difficulty getting releases reviewed? (That's a classic pain
>> point for podlings that have been around for a while.) By the way, when was
>> the last release? "Date of last release" is in the podling report template,
>> but it wasn't in the report that was filed. I tried to figure it out by
>> looking at <http://incubator.apache.org/projects/vxquery.html> but it wasn't
>> there, nor was there an obvious download page on the podling website at
>> <http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/>.
>
> Gah, sorry, I misread your report, which contained this line:
>
> The most important issue to address in the move towards graduation is
> still the first release. Two release candidates have been created and
> rejected so far. The third release candiate is not ready yet.
>
> This thread is also germane:
>
> http://markmail.org/thread/4gok66zibfwt6mzw
>
> VXQuery release needs votes
Yes, release votes are one point, another point is that we could probably avoid asking for votes for more than one RC on general@i.a.o if we had more ASF-experienced eyes looking at it on the dev list.
Wrt to the other points you mentioned, collaboration seems generally effective (albeit not always on the list), technical infrastructure is not a big problem, and most things I learn about ASF culture I learn from discussions on general@i.a.o.
I think that the mentor activity that we could benefit from is the occasional benevolent hint on how to make things work more smoothly within the ASF.
Till
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> Are you having difficulty getting releases reviewed? (That's a classic pain
> point for podlings that have been around for a while.) By the way, when was
> the last release? "Date of last release" is in the podling report template,
> but it wasn't in the report that was filed. I tried to figure it out by
> looking at <http://incubator.apache.org/projects/vxquery.html> but it wasn't
> there, nor was there an obvious download page on the podling website at
> <http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/>.
Gah, sorry, I misread your report, which contained this line:
The most important issue to address in the move towards graduation is
still the first release. Two release candidates have been created and
rejected so far. The third release candiate is not ready yet.
This thread is also germane:
http://markmail.org/thread/4gok66zibfwt6mzw
VXQuery release needs votes
Marvin Humphrey
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 7:57 AM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> Are you having difficulty getting releases reviewed? (That's a classic pain
> point for podlings that have been around for a while.) By the way, when was
> the last release? "Date of last release" is in the podling report template,
> but it wasn't in the report that was filed. I tried to figure it out by
> looking at <http://incubator.apache.org/projects/vxquery.html> but it wasn't
> there, nor was there an obvious download page on the podling website at
> <http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/>.
Gah, sorry, I misread your report, which contained this line:
The most important issue to address in the move towards graduation is
still the first release. Two release candidates have been created and
rejected so far. The third release candiate is not ready yet.
This thread is also germane:
http://markmail.org/thread/4gok66zibfwt6mzw
VXQuery release needs votes
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:57 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>wrote:
> What kind of Mentor activity do you think VXQuery would benefit from?
I don't think, there are any pressing issues. Basically, as I know from my
own experience, you can feel kinda lost, if mentors aren't actively
participating in every day's issues, which I am clearly not.
Jochen
--
"That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make friends
with the bully!"
Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
Hello, Till,
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> actually my remark in the report was less about the activity of you, the
> active mentor, than about the fact that you are the only one. So "more than
> one active mentor" would have been a better wording.
What kind of Mentor activity do you think VXQuery would benefit from? Once a
podling gets through the early stages of incubation (particularly the first
release), there tend to be relatively few obvious blocking issues that require
multiple Mentors. I was a little concerned that no Mentors had signed off on
the report, but there was a small window for that to happen this report cycle
because I messed up some due dates, and in any case Jochen has now taken care
of things and is apparently active elsewhere.
Are you having difficulty getting releases reviewed? (That's a classic pain
point for podlings that have been around for a while.) By the way, when was
the last release? "Date of last release" is in the podling report template,
but it wasn't in the report that was filed. I tried to figure it out by
looking at <http://incubator.apache.org/projects/vxquery.html> but it wasn't
there, nor was there an obvious download page on the podling website at
<http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/>.
Are community members not collaborating effectively, perhaps providing an
opportunity for a Mentor to coach?
Are questions about ASF culture, infrastructure, institutions, etc that are
going unanswered? Or is the podling fumbling around because they don't know
what questions to ask?
Are there perhaps activities that are really the responsibility of the
community, but which a Mentor might optionally take on? I'm thinking of
things like evangelism, publicity and such.
Marvin Humphrey
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
Hello, Till,
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 6:57 AM, Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> actually my remark in the report was less about the activity of you, the
> active mentor, than about the fact that you are the only one. So "more than
> one active mentor" would have been a better wording.
What kind of Mentor activity do you think VXQuery would benefit from? Once a
podling gets through the early stages of incubation (particularly the first
release), there tend to be relatively few obvious blocking issues that require
multiple Mentors. I was a little concerned that no Mentors had signed off on
the report, but there was a small window for that to happen this report cycle
because I messed up some due dates, and in any case Jochen has now taken care
of things and is apparently active elsewhere.
Are you having difficulty getting releases reviewed? (That's a classic pain
point for podlings that have been around for a while.) By the way, when was
the last release? "Date of last release" is in the podling report template,
but it wasn't in the report that was filed. I tried to figure it out by
looking at <http://incubator.apache.org/projects/vxquery.html> but it wasn't
there, nor was there an obvious download page on the podling website at
<http://incubator.apache.org/vxquery/>.
Are community members not collaborating effectively, perhaps providing an
opportunity for a Mentor to coach?
Are questions about ASF culture, infrastructure, institutions, etc that are
going unanswered? Or is the podling fumbling around because they don't know
what questions to ask?
Are there perhaps activities that are really the responsibility of the
community, but which a Mentor might optionally take on? I'm thinking of
things like evangelism, publicity and such.
Marvin Humphrey
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org>.
Hi Jochen,
actually my remark in the report was less about the activity of you, the active mentor, than about the fact that you are the only one. So "more than one active mentor" would have been a better wording.
Till
On Jul 18, 2013, at 1:18 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am no longer able to sign this off, as the Wiki page is already closed for edits. So, for the record: Till's report is just fine, in particular his remark on the less-than-active mentors. (Sorry for that.)
>
> Jochen
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Till <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the July 2013 report is ready for review and/or sign-off at:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/July2013
>
> Cheers,
> Till
>
>
>
> --
> "That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make friends with the bully!"
>
> Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
Re: July 2013 report
Posted by Till Westmann <ti...@westmann.org>.
Hi Jochen,
actually my remark in the report was less about the activity of you, the active mentor, than about the fact that you are the only one. So "more than one active mentor" would have been a better wording.
Till
On Jul 18, 2013, at 1:18 AM, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am no longer able to sign this off, as the Wiki page is already closed for edits. So, for the record: Till's report is just fine, in particular his remark on the less-than-active mentors. (Sorry for that.)
>
> Jochen
>
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Till <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the July 2013 report is ready for review and/or sign-off at:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/July2013
>
> Cheers,
> Till
>
>
>
> --
> "That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make friends with the bully!"
>
> Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
Fwd: July 2013 report
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I am no longer able to sign this off, as the Wiki page is already closed
for edits. So, for the record: Till's report is just fine, in particular
his remark on the less-than-active mentors. (Sorry for that.)
Jochen
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Till <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the July 2013 report is ready for review and/or sign-off at:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/July2013
>
> Cheers,
> Till
>
>
>
--
"That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make friends
with the bully!"
Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero
Fwd: July 2013 report
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I am no longer able to sign this off, as the Wiki page is already closed
for edits. So, for the record: Till's report is just fine, in particular
his remark on the less-than-active mentors. (Sorry for that.)
Jochen
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Till <ti...@westmann.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> the July 2013 report is ready for review and/or sign-off at:
> https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/July2013
>
> Cheers,
> Till
>
>
>
--
"That's what prayers are ... it's frightened people trying to make friends
with the bully!"
Terry Pratchett. The Last Hero