Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/

This is based on a contribution from Jan.

You can look at the source is Subversion:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/

It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
template.

Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
Analytics declarations.

-Rob

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to
>>>>>> have
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
>>>>> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
>>>>> the old directory with this one.
>>>>
>>>> I am sorry, this doesn't make sense, sounds like the plan of the plan.
>>>> I would go on commiting the data and if there are changes or
>>>> rollbacks, just update the pages/sites.  That's the whole point of
>>>> using a version control system/wiki IMO. AFAIK just unlinking will
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously I disagree.  The fact that we have version control does not
>>> mean we can just overwrite stuff on a production server with
>>> unreviewed changes.
>>
>> Who exactly is going to review those changes, the reviewers or authors
>> are long gone from the project. Right now mantaining that content is
>> doing more harm than just having incomplete fresh content.
>>
>
> OK.  It sounds like you are missing the context here.  Jan emailed me
> these updated files so I could check them in.  Anyone who wishes to
> review them can do so.  I certainly am.  There are some issues on the
> page currently.  When these are taken care of, then of course we'll
> put them in the normal directly.  But right now they are suffering
> some serious issues with the site template.  I'd rather take care of
> that now rather than debate the theory of version control.  OK?

Got it.

>
> -Rob
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>> have a non-destructive effect to the past content if we are trying to
>>>> preserve things live, otherwise it will just go on the revision
>>>> history.
>>>>
>>>> I looked at the l10n-new and not a lot of data is in it, I would just
>>>> merge it back with l10n and comment whatever seems 'outdated'.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>>>>>>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>>>>>>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>>>>>>> template.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>>>>>>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>>>>>>> Analytics declarations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

On Fri, Nov 02, 2012 at 12:46:00PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> OK how about we do this:  We copy Jan's new files into l10n, having it
> be the new look and feel and default index.html.  Then we can hook up
> relevant legacy content to the new home page.  Stuff that is not
> hooked up, because it is outdated or superseded by new pages -- this
> we can delete or ignore as appropriate.
> 
> In other words, we separate the new look and feel of the website from
> the proposed new process.

IMO the better approach is to move l10n to l10n-archive or archive/l10n
(I like this last one, we have a 9 GB repo, more than the 90% is for
sure deprecated content, so an archive/ folder looks like something we
will need sooner or later), then those who show concerns about removing
old stuff can review the old content, see what is still relevant, port
it to MarkDown, and move it to the new l10n.

And yes, content as to be ported, as it will likely look ugly in the
mixture of old html format and the new navigation bars (they are applied
recursively to all the content in the folder).


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@gmail.com>]

On 11/2/12 8:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
>>>>
>>>
>>> OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
>>> when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
>>> blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
>>> Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
>>>
>> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct karma. I
>> cannot see it.
>>
>>>
>>> So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>>
>>>> However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I
>> have
>>>> just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
>>>>
>>>> Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
>>> now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
>>> existing l10n directory and move this version in?
>>>
>> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as well as
>> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
>> structure is unstable.
>>
> 
> That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work with. If
> we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and right,
> loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets bored,
> the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".

I am not sure if I understand you, Jan is trying to bring more structure
in the l10n area and he is now using Ariel's templates which is good.
And probably many things can be still improved.

We have migrated the former pages which is good and we have all the data
stored. Now it is time to cleanup the content and to bring more
structure in the overall design of the page. I think we had already some
discussion where we potentially want to go (unified structure, unified
content on the localized pages, plus extra news areas on the localized
pages to spread the news for local, regional events etc. Other things
should be move in the wiki.

Maybe you explain again what your concern is and where you see a
problem. I don't understand.

Juergen

> 
> "-1"
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> But of course I would be happy to get more context, if that is needed to
>> make it lift off.
>>
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>> rgds
>>>> jan I.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 November 2012 20:25, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:22 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> That worked....with one excepttion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty,
>> with
>>> no
>>>>>> possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You might need to scroll down.   Mdtext files have a body and then
>>>>> additional metadata that shows in a separate edit field in the CMS.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>>> home:       home
>>>>>> search:     search
>>>>>> name:       Apache OpenOffice
>>>>>> tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
>>>>>> logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
>>>>>> domain:     www.openoffice.org
>>>>>> divid:      bannera
>>>>>> announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
>>>>>> announceurl:
>>>>>>
>>> http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
>>>>>> announcetip:    Read the announcement
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> is that a special case ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the
>> normal
>>>>>> CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <
>> jancasacondor@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <
>>> jancasacondor@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> HELP !!!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I
>> wanted
>>> to
>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I
>>> am
>>>>>>>>> presented
>>>>>>>>>> with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS
>> Web
>>>>>>>>> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd
>> just
>>>>> add
>>>>>>>>> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the
>>> CMS
>>>>>>>>> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a
>> preview.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
>>>>>>> l10n-new I
>>>>>>>> can see that she published it...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I
>> do
>>> not
>>>>>>>> understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
>>>>>>> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If
>> someone
>>>>>>> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
>>>>>>> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS
>> web
>>>>>>> UI at the level of a file or directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can
>>> forget
>>>>> CMS
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> do it in SVN directly ???
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext
>>> or
>>>>>>>>> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it
>>> uses
>>>>>>>>> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN
>>> if
>>>>>>>>> you want.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
>>>>>>>>> non-documentary
>>>>>>>>>> programmers :-)
>>>>>>>>>> Jan I.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <
>> jancasacondor@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> See below please.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <
>>>>> arielch@apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the
>>> site
>>>>>>>>>>>> template, to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> include context-specific menus ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a
>>> sort of
>>>>>>>>>>>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext?
>>> You
>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same
>>> is
>>>>> true
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the left and right bars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
>>>>>>>>> topnav.mdtext
>>>>>>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better
>>>>> posted
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this
>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>>>>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can
>>> get
>>>>>>>>> answers
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the CMS experts ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement
>> by
>>>>> Rob,
>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads
>> unless
>>>>>>>>> absolutely
>>>>>>>>>>> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change
>>> l10n
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important
>> to
>>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>>>>>>>>>>> La Plata, Argentina
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

In my opion the discussion is moving outside the scope of this mailing list
so I refrain from commenting further, Ariel asked a question and that is
answered below.

jan

@Ariel:
http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n/extract_merge.html,
is in my opinion very incomplete and describes part that are only used
indirectly (through localize_sl), furthermore this subject is covered in
high detail and with up to date information on:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Localization_AOO

http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n/ooo_readme_how_to.sxw,
it might be possible to do it that way but to my best knowledge the readme
file is passed by localize_sl just like all other files. We do not have a
special readme.sdf file.

This is the fact as I see them, but not a recommendation for removal !



On 3 November 2012 02:38, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Jan,
>
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:25:16AM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> > I understand and believe it is a central part of openSource that
> decisions
> > are taken in consensus !! and I really did my best to secure a consensus
> in
> > advance before I started working. But now after the job is done, things
> we
> > clearly discussed and nobody objected to are wrong (moving l10n to an
> > archive).
>
> Things are not wrong! It was just an opinion, expressed - IMO - in an
> improper manner with an improper wording and a -1, as if it was
> a vote/veto, while you were doing this by lazy consensus [1], there was
> no need for a vote, and won't be.
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#LazyConsensus
>
> > > Even if, as Ariel says, portions will have to be copied and pasted, it
> > > doesn't seem too much work to replicate the current links (the still
> > > applicable ones) from l10n to l10n-new and "archive" l10n except for
> the
> > > pages that are getting significant traffic.
>
> In the meantime I removed l10n-new and some directories and pages on
> l10n that had obvious obsolete content. There is still some stuff about
> i18n and l10n documentation, that, in case still valid, should be moved
> to the wiki.
>
> @Jan: can you take a look at the following, this looks like information
> already available on the wiki, if you don't need it, I'll remove it:
>
> http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n/extract_merge.html
> http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n/ooo_readme_how_to.sxw
>
> > I am really scared, if "consensus" means in essence, "feel free to wait
> and
> > see the outcome before complaining", instead of bringing the themes in
> > advance while it is being discussed. The issues that are on the table,
> was
> > to a large extent mentioned in the discussions.
>
> That's way you shouldn't let it bring you down. You'll find jerks
> everywhere :)
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

Hi Jan,

On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:25:16AM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> I understand and believe it is a central part of openSource that decisions
> are taken in consensus !! and I really did my best to secure a consensus in
> advance before I started working. But now after the job is done, things we
> clearly discussed and nobody objected to are wrong (moving l10n to an
> archive).

Things are not wrong! It was just an opinion, expressed - IMO - in an
improper manner with an improper wording and a -1, as if it was
a vote/veto, while you were doing this by lazy consensus [1], there was
no need for a vote, and won't be.

[1] http://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#LazyConsensus

> > Even if, as Ariel says, portions will have to be copied and pasted, it
> > doesn't seem too much work to replicate the current links (the still
> > applicable ones) from l10n to l10n-new and "archive" l10n except for the
> > pages that are getting significant traffic.

In the meantime I removed l10n-new and some directories and pages on
l10n that had obvious obsolete content. There is still some stuff about
i18n and l10n documentation, that, in case still valid, should be moved
to the wiki.

@Jan: can you take a look at the following, this looks like information
already available on the wiki, if you don't need it, I'll remove it:

http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n/extract_merge.html
http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n/ooo_readme_how_to.sxw

> I am really scared, if "consensus" means in essence, "feel free to wait and
> see the outcome before complaining", instead of bringing the themes in
> advance while it is being discussed. The issues that are on the table, was
> to a large extent mentioned in the discussions.

That's way you shouldn't let it bring you down. You'll find jerks
everywhere :)


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:25 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3 November 2012 00:27, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On 02/11/2012 jan iversen wrote:
> >
> >> I lean it was all wrong and basically I should never have
> >> tampered  with that site. ...
> >>
> >> simply drop my pages and let l10n live as it is, then someone with more
> >> knowledge than me will hopefully clean it up sometime.
> >>
> >
> > This is not correct. Decisions are taken by consensus, and this often
> > entails that what we get is different from what you originally thought,
> or
> > what Alexandro originally thought, or what I may think. And, when it
> works,
> > it ensures that the result is better than what you, Alexandro or me had
> in
> > mind.
> >
>
> I understand and believe it is a central part of openSource that decisions
> are taken in consensus !! and I really did my best to secure a consensus in
> advance before I started working. But now after the job is done, things we
> clearly discussed and nobody objected to are wrong (moving l10n to an
> archive).
>
> I do not appreciate that we reach consensus AFTER the work is done, that
> seems to me like wasted time (not only for me). There is a time for
> discussion and a time for doing, for a small thing like the l10n site is
> plays no big role, but for the l10n workflow it would be a BIG time waste.
>

I have to say that I never really understood what you were trying to
achieve. From what I read you wanted to add some dynamism to the template,
which I agree. The way Rob explained was that there was thinking from the
beginning to integrate the content back to reincorporate l10n-new to l10n.
It didnt make sense to my why just not apply the changes straight to l10n.
It seems you are trying to add dynamic menu system which is fine. My main
concern is that l10n current information will get blown out including the
relevant information. l10n has a lot of good information like l18n and l10n
frameworks, documentation and such. It also has a structure and has some
legacy too. I was pushing to for a sensitive update of information, meaning
updating whatever is already there, pages like 'how-to-join', and others.


>
>
> >
> > For sure there's no reason to drop the current
> > http://www.openoffice.org/**l10n-new/<
> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/>;
> > it seems it only misses links from
> > http://www.openoffice.org/**l10n/ <http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/>
> > which could be put in a "Resources" page. The rest, especially if it has
> > many incoming links/visits according to Rob's report, would simply be
> > shadowed (i.e., existing but not linked).
> >
>
> Actually it was agreed (see earlier mails) to make an archive directory
> which I did. And for sure I agree we should keep the traffic but it would
> have been nice to have had that as part of the discussion BEFORE I, Ariel
> and Rob spent hours doing something just as well could have left alone.
>
>
> >
> > Even if, as Ariel says, portions will have to be copied and pasted, it
> > doesn't seem too much work to replicate the current links (the still
> > applicable ones) from l10n to l10n-new and "archive" l10n except for the
> > pages that are getting significant traffic.
> >
>
> No it is not a big job, and I would happily if I just knew what to do, I
> have copied all the information I could find that was updated, so maybe it
> would be better that those who know what is missing, do that.
>
> I am really scared, if "consensus" means in essence, "feel free to wait and
> see the outcome before complaining", instead of bringing the themes in
> advance while it is being discussed. The issues that are on the table, was
> to a large extent mentioned in the discussions.
>

Are you related with the concept of 'forever beta'. Meaning that work is
never finished and is always in constant review and re-review. I NEVER
suggest to stop what you or anyone else is doing, but I did was opposed to
just 'starting from scratch' and deleting or achieving everything without a
proper review. Specially from people that is new to the project.


>
> Following the "after work is done consensus model" would mean, that the
> document I have written on l10n workflow and the discussions we have had is
> nice, but in no way a guarantee of "consensus". I run the risk of using
> quite a lot of time developing the tools, releasing them, and then be told
> "If we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
> right".
>

Feel free to point me to key emails about what reasoning was taken place to
act the way you are acting. But I think this is a major part of working in
open source. We all want the same thing here which is a viable project.
Like I said in the previous email, I have been working around the content
of l10n updating the links to the mailing list as well as others key
information on contact.

My goal is to get you and others to update the information within the
current l10n site. Structural changes (creating new files, branches, and
folders) does put me nervous specially because a lot of content is going
uncomented. Content such as state of the frameworks, decision on IRC
channels, and other assets which are there, and could be wasted because we
didnt took the time to talk about them.

Simple question, what would happened to:
- Glosaries
- Testing
- Frameworks (l18n/l10n).
- Language charts
- Tutorials

Which will staay in the site, and which will be handled on the wiki for
example.



>
> I do NOT want to cause trashing of projects, I want to help make AOO an
> even better product by developing/writing/assisting based on proper
> discussions to make sure it reflect the opinion of the community and not
> just my ideas.
>
> I will be happy to do whatever we all agree to, but in my opinion we must
> reach consensus before we start developing/editing so we do not trash
> projects left and right. And at the moment I do not know how anybody can
> really know when consensus is reached.
>
> Please excuse me, if I have used wrong wording or misunderstood the
> process, but please also understand it is NO fun, first using time to
> discuss, then implement in close accordance with the discussions, just to
> be told what I have read in this thread.
>
>
> >
> > Regards,
> >   Andrea.
> >
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

On 3 November 2012 00:27, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 02/11/2012 jan iversen wrote:
>
>> I lean it was all wrong and basically I should never have
>> tampered  with that site. ...
>>
>> simply drop my pages and let l10n live as it is, then someone with more
>> knowledge than me will hopefully clean it up sometime.
>>
>
> This is not correct. Decisions are taken by consensus, and this often
> entails that what we get is different from what you originally thought, or
> what Alexandro originally thought, or what I may think. And, when it works,
> it ensures that the result is better than what you, Alexandro or me had in
> mind.
>

I understand and believe it is a central part of openSource that decisions
are taken in consensus !! and I really did my best to secure a consensus in
advance before I started working. But now after the job is done, things we
clearly discussed and nobody objected to are wrong (moving l10n to an
archive).

I do not appreciate that we reach consensus AFTER the work is done, that
seems to me like wasted time (not only for me). There is a time for
discussion and a time for doing, for a small thing like the l10n site is
plays no big role, but for the l10n workflow it would be a BIG time waste.


>
> For sure there's no reason to drop the current
> http://www.openoffice.org/**l10n-new/<http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/>;
> it seems it only misses links from
> http://www.openoffice.org/**l10n/ <http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/>
> which could be put in a "Resources" page. The rest, especially if it has
> many incoming links/visits according to Rob's report, would simply be
> shadowed (i.e., existing but not linked).
>

Actually it was agreed (see earlier mails) to make an archive directory
which I did. And for sure I agree we should keep the traffic but it would
have been nice to have had that as part of the discussion BEFORE I, Ariel
and Rob spent hours doing something just as well could have left alone.


>
> Even if, as Ariel says, portions will have to be copied and pasted, it
> doesn't seem too much work to replicate the current links (the still
> applicable ones) from l10n to l10n-new and "archive" l10n except for the
> pages that are getting significant traffic.
>

No it is not a big job, and I would happily if I just knew what to do, I
have copied all the information I could find that was updated, so maybe it
would be better that those who know what is missing, do that.

I am really scared, if "consensus" means in essence, "feel free to wait and
see the outcome before complaining", instead of bringing the themes in
advance while it is being discussed. The issues that are on the table, was
to a large extent mentioned in the discussions.

Following the "after work is done consensus model" would mean, that the
document I have written on l10n workflow and the discussions we have had is
nice, but in no way a guarantee of "consensus". I run the risk of using
quite a lot of time developing the tools, releasing them, and then be told
"If we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
right".

I do NOT want to cause trashing of projects, I want to help make AOO an
even better product by developing/writing/assisting based on proper
discussions to make sure it reflect the opinion of the community and not
just my ideas.

I will be happy to do whatever we all agree to, but in my opinion we must
reach consensus before we start developing/editing so we do not trash
projects left and right. And at the moment I do not know how anybody can
really know when consensus is reached.

Please excuse me, if I have used wrong wording or misunderstood the
process, but please also understand it is NO fun, first using time to
discuss, then implement in close accordance with the discussions, just to
be told what I have read in this thread.


>
> Regards,
>   Andrea.
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>]

On 02/11/2012 jan iversen wrote:
> I lean it was all wrong and basically I should never have
> tampered  with that site. ...
> simply drop my pages and let l10n live as it is, then someone with more
> knowledge than me will hopefully clean it up sometime.

This is not correct. Decisions are taken by consensus, and this often 
entails that what we get is different from what you originally thought, 
or what Alexandro originally thought, or what I may think. And, when it 
works, it ensures that the result is better than what you, Alexandro or 
me had in mind.

For sure there's no reason to drop the current
http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/ ;
it seems it only misses links from
http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/
which could be put in a "Resources" page. The rest, especially if it has 
many incoming links/visits according to Rob's report, would simply be 
shadowed (i.e., existing but not linked).

Even if, as Ariel says, portions will have to be copied and pasted, it 
doesn't seem too much work to replicate the current links (the still 
applicable ones) from l10n to l10n-new and "archive" l10n except for the 
pages that are getting significant traffic.

Regards,
   Andrea.

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 5:27 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Having thought a bit more about the current discussion, I think I made a
> mistake.
>
> If you look back in the mail list, you will see that I raised the issue on
> how to do it and if I should do it, before I started, and got positive
> feedback, including ideas of how to progress. Then I went ahead and made
> the site, NOT a complete new design or content but a simple translation of
> the existing content, with a filter removing outdated information.
>
> And now after having spent the time (including much appreciated help from
> ariel and rob) , I lean it was all wrong and basically I should never have
> tampered  with that site.
>

I've had that happen to myself a couple times as well.  Very
frustrating.  IMHO in these cases there are a few possibilities:

1) Was the original proposal given enough time for review?  72 hours
lazy consensus is the minimum.  But more time may be needed in some
cases.

2) Sometimes opinions or preferences can sound like objections.  We
all need to learn to offer encouraging feedback.  Our rarest commodity
is not "The One True Design",  Our rarest commodity is volunteer time.
 The good-enough design that someone is willing to work on is better
(IMHO) than the perfect one that no one is volunteering to do.

3) If objections come up, that suggests we just slow down and talk it
over more, find a compromise.

> So please allow me to make another proposal:
>
> simply drop my pages and let l10n live as it is, then someone with more
> knowledge than me will hopefully clean it up sometime.
>

Sorry I didn't see this note in time.  I've already moved the content
from l10n-new over to l10n per the last exchange I had with Alexandro,
which I thought resolved his concerns.  None of the old pages were
removed.  They are still there.  Based on the previous discussion I
think we should evaluate what of the existing content is still
relevant, and if it is then update that content and link it into the
new design.

Regards,

-Rob

> I have enough to do with the new process, this cleanup was for me an
> opportunity to get deeper into how are web site works, and at the same time
> (in my opinion) make a contribution that would bring us forward.
>
> Jan.
>
>
> On 2 November 2012 21:59, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just one word...the work I have done on l10n, does not in a single word
>> talk about the new process !!!
>>
>> It is on purpose, the new process is in development, and as long as it is
>> not active, I (as a person) will not put it on l10n, or other pages, with
>> the exception of a single Wiki page, used for discussion.
>>
>> Jan.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 November 2012 17:46, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <
>>> jancasacondor@gmail.com>
>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty
>>> page.
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But
>>> then
>>> >> >> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
>>> >> >> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
>>> >> >> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct
>>> karma. I
>>> >> >> cannot see it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect
>>> job...and I
>>> >> >> have
>>> >> >> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
>>> >> >> > >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks
>>> good
>>> >> >> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
>>> >> >> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as
>>> well
>>> >> as
>>> >> >> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
>>> >> >> structure is unstable.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> > That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work
>>> with.
>>> >> If
>>> >> > we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
>>> >> right,
>>> >> > loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets
>>> bored,
>>> >> > the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
>>> >> We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
>>> >> technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
>>> >> existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
>>> >> the website, then please speak up.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >> Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
>>> >> through September, I see the following total number of page hits
>>> >> (total for the two months, not total per day):
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I previously update many of the original l10n site, most of the content
>>> > that is really irrelevant is unlinked. The pages that have questiable
>>> > relevance are updated on the contact information, and the resources are
>>> > well there. I want to know for example what would happened to the
>>> existing
>>> > glossaries.
>>> >
>>> > The area that talk about TCM will be update with LinkTest information?
>>> will
>>> > Linktest be used at all?
>>> >
>>> > I see many repeating sites like how_to_join.html on both projects, just
>>> > updating the page with the l10n-new would be sufficient.
>>> >
>>> > IMO all this work from jan should have gone to one page
>>> > "localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,", and from them moved on to the
>>> > different sites. I understand the actual structural changes like the
>>> > templates and contextual menus would be added files to the site.
>>> >
>>> > I would promote for deletion like you said, l10n/languages.html
>>> > l10n/download/en-GB.html, project/l10n/languages.html only because they
>>> > have nothing to do with the project, or have duplicated within the l10n
>>> > project. example "supported languages".
>>> >
>>>
>>> OK how about we do this:  We copy Jan's new files into l10n, having it
>>> be the new look and feel and default index.html.  Then we can hook up
>>> relevant legacy content to the new home page.  Stuff that is not
>>> hooked up, because it is outdated or superseded by new pages -- this
>>> we can delete or ignore as appropriate.
>>>
>>> In other words, we separate the new look and feel of the website from
>>> the proposed new process.
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Page,Pageviews
>>> >> /l10n/languages.html,1077
>>> >> /l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
>>> >> /l10n/index.html,255
>>> >> /l10n/adding_language.html,156
>>> >> /l10n/localization/translation.html,145
>>> >> /l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
>>> >> /l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
>>> >> /l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
>>> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
>>> >> /l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
>>> >> /project/l10n/languages.html,33
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
>>> >> /l10n/how-to-join.html,20
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
>>> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
>>> >> /l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
>>> >> /l10n/extract_merge.html,16
>>> >> /l10n/irc-channel.html,11
>>> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
>>> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
>>> >> /l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
>>> >> /l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
>>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
>>> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
>>> >> /l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5
>>> >>
>>> >> So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
>>> >> pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
>>> >> pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.
>>> >>
>>> >> Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
>>> >> recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
>>> >> worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
>>> >> keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
>>> >> Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
>>> >> superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
>>> >> external links will automatically point to the updated content.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Rob
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Alexandro Colorado
>>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>> > http://es.openoffice.org
>>>
>>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Having thought a bit more about the current discussion, I think I made a
mistake.

If you look back in the mail list, you will see that I raised the issue on
how to do it and if I should do it, before I started, and got positive
feedback, including ideas of how to progress. Then I went ahead and made
the site, NOT a complete new design or content but a simple translation of
the existing content, with a filter removing outdated information.

And now after having spent the time (including much appreciated help from
ariel and rob) , I lean it was all wrong and basically I should never have
tampered  with that site.

So please allow me to make another proposal:

simply drop my pages and let l10n live as it is, then someone with more
knowledge than me will hopefully clean it up sometime.

I have enough to do with the new process, this cleanup was for me an
opportunity to get deeper into how are web site works, and at the same time
(in my opinion) make a contribution that would bring us forward.

Jan.


On 2 November 2012 21:59, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just one word...the work I have done on l10n, does not in a single word
> talk about the new process !!!
>
> It is on purpose, the new process is in development, and as long as it is
> not active, I (as a person) will not put it on l10n, or other pages, with
> the exception of a single Wiki page, used for discussion.
>
> Jan.
>
>
>
> On 2 November 2012 17:46, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <
>> jancasacondor@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty
>> page.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But
>> then
>> >> >> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
>> >> >> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
>> >> >> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct
>> karma. I
>> >> >> cannot see it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect
>> job...and I
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks
>> good
>> >> >> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
>> >> >> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as
>> well
>> >> as
>> >> >> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
>> >> >> structure is unstable.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work
>> with.
>> >> If
>> >> > we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
>> >> right,
>> >> > loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets
>> bored,
>> >> > the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
>> >> We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
>> >> technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
>> >> existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
>> >> the website, then please speak up.
>> >>
>> >
>> >> Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
>> >> through September, I see the following total number of page hits
>> >> (total for the two months, not total per day):
>> >>
>> >
>> > I previously update many of the original l10n site, most of the content
>> > that is really irrelevant is unlinked. The pages that have questiable
>> > relevance are updated on the contact information, and the resources are
>> > well there. I want to know for example what would happened to the
>> existing
>> > glossaries.
>> >
>> > The area that talk about TCM will be update with LinkTest information?
>> will
>> > Linktest be used at all?
>> >
>> > I see many repeating sites like how_to_join.html on both projects, just
>> > updating the page with the l10n-new would be sufficient.
>> >
>> > IMO all this work from jan should have gone to one page
>> > "localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,", and from them moved on to the
>> > different sites. I understand the actual structural changes like the
>> > templates and contextual menus would be added files to the site.
>> >
>> > I would promote for deletion like you said, l10n/languages.html
>> > l10n/download/en-GB.html, project/l10n/languages.html only because they
>> > have nothing to do with the project, or have duplicated within the l10n
>> > project. example "supported languages".
>> >
>>
>> OK how about we do this:  We copy Jan's new files into l10n, having it
>> be the new look and feel and default index.html.  Then we can hook up
>> relevant legacy content to the new home page.  Stuff that is not
>> hooked up, because it is outdated or superseded by new pages -- this
>> we can delete or ignore as appropriate.
>>
>> In other words, we separate the new look and feel of the website from
>> the proposed new process.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Page,Pageviews
>> >> /l10n/languages.html,1077
>> >> /l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
>> >> /l10n/index.html,255
>> >> /l10n/adding_language.html,156
>> >> /l10n/localization/translation.html,145
>> >> /l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
>> >> /l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
>> >> /l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
>> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
>> >> /l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
>> >> /project/l10n/languages.html,33
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
>> >> /l10n/how-to-join.html,20
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
>> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
>> >> /l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
>> >> /l10n/extract_merge.html,16
>> >> /l10n/irc-channel.html,11
>> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
>> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
>> >> /l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
>> >> /l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
>> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
>> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
>> >> /l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5
>> >>
>> >> So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
>> >> pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
>> >> pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.
>> >>
>> >> Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
>> >> recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
>> >> worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
>> >> keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
>> >> Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
>> >> superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
>> >> external links will automatically point to the updated content.
>> >>
>> >> -Rob
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alexandro Colorado
>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> > http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Just one word...the work I have done on l10n, does not in a single word
talk about the new process !!!

It is on purpose, the new process is in development, and as long as it is
not active, I (as a person) will not put it on l10n, or other pages, with
the exception of a single Wiki page, used for discussion.

Jan.


On 2 November 2012 17:46, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
> wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <
> jancasacondor@gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty
> page.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But
> then
> >> >> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
> >> >> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
> >> >> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
> >> >> >
> >> >> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct
> karma. I
> >> >> cannot see it.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect
> job...and I
> >> >> have
> >> >> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks
> good
> >> >> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
> >> >> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
> >> >> >
> >> >> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as
> well
> >> as
> >> >> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
> >> >> structure is unstable.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work
> with.
> >> If
> >> > we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
> >> right,
> >> > loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets
> bored,
> >> > the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
> >> We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
> >> technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
> >> existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
> >> the website, then please speak up.
> >>
> >
> >> Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
> >> through September, I see the following total number of page hits
> >> (total for the two months, not total per day):
> >>
> >
> > I previously update many of the original l10n site, most of the content
> > that is really irrelevant is unlinked. The pages that have questiable
> > relevance are updated on the contact information, and the resources are
> > well there. I want to know for example what would happened to the
> existing
> > glossaries.
> >
> > The area that talk about TCM will be update with LinkTest information?
> will
> > Linktest be used at all?
> >
> > I see many repeating sites like how_to_join.html on both projects, just
> > updating the page with the l10n-new would be sufficient.
> >
> > IMO all this work from jan should have gone to one page
> > "localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,", and from them moved on to the
> > different sites. I understand the actual structural changes like the
> > templates and contextual menus would be added files to the site.
> >
> > I would promote for deletion like you said, l10n/languages.html
> > l10n/download/en-GB.html, project/l10n/languages.html only because they
> > have nothing to do with the project, or have duplicated within the l10n
> > project. example "supported languages".
> >
>
> OK how about we do this:  We copy Jan's new files into l10n, having it
> be the new look and feel and default index.html.  Then we can hook up
> relevant legacy content to the new home page.  Stuff that is not
> hooked up, because it is outdated or superseded by new pages -- this
> we can delete or ignore as appropriate.
>
> In other words, we separate the new look and feel of the website from
> the proposed new process.
>
> -Rob
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Page,Pageviews
> >> /l10n/languages.html,1077
> >> /l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
> >> /l10n/index.html,255
> >> /l10n/adding_language.html,156
> >> /l10n/localization/translation.html,145
> >> /l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
> >> /l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
> >> /l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
> >> /l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
> >> /project/l10n/languages.html,33
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
> >> /l10n/how-to-join.html,20
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
> >> /l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
> >> /l10n/extract_merge.html,16
> >> /l10n/irc-channel.html,11
> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
> >> /l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
> >> /l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
> >> /l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5
> >>
> >> So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
> >> pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
> >> pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.
> >>
> >> Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
> >> recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
> >> worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
> >> keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
> >> Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
> >> superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
> >> external links will automatically point to the updated content.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> > http://es.openoffice.org
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
> wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <
> jancasacondor@gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty
> page.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But
> then
> >> >> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
> >> >> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
> >> >> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
> >> >> >
> >> >> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct
> karma. I
> >> >> cannot see it.
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect
> job...and I
> >> >> have
> >> >> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks
> good
> >> >> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
> >> >> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
> >> >> >
> >> >> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as
> well
> >> as
> >> >> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
> >> >> structure is unstable.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work
> with.
> >> If
> >> > we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
> >> right,
> >> > loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets
> bored,
> >> > the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
> >> We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
> >> technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
> >> existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
> >> the website, then please speak up.
> >>
> >
> >> Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
> >> through September, I see the following total number of page hits
> >> (total for the two months, not total per day):
> >>
> >
> > I previously update many of the original l10n site, most of the content
> > that is really irrelevant is unlinked. The pages that have questiable
> > relevance are updated on the contact information, and the resources are
> > well there. I want to know for example what would happened to the
> existing
> > glossaries.
> >
> > The area that talk about TCM will be update with LinkTest information?
> will
> > Linktest be used at all?
> >
> > I see many repeating sites like how_to_join.html on both projects, just
> > updating the page with the l10n-new would be sufficient.
> >
> > IMO all this work from jan should have gone to one page
> > "localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,", and from them moved on to the
> > different sites. I understand the actual structural changes like the
> > templates and contextual menus would be added files to the site.
> >
> > I would promote for deletion like you said, l10n/languages.html
> > l10n/download/en-GB.html, project/l10n/languages.html only because they
> > have nothing to do with the project, or have duplicated within the l10n
> > project. example "supported languages".
> >
>
> OK how about we do this:  We copy Jan's new files into l10n, having it
> be the new look and feel and default index.html.  Then we can hook up
> relevant legacy content to the new home page.  Stuff that is not
> hooked up, because it is outdated or superseded by new pages -- this
> we can delete or ignore as appropriate.
>
> In other words, we separate the new look and feel of the website from
> the proposed new process.
>
> -Rob
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Page,Pageviews
> >> /l10n/languages.html,1077
> >> /l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
> >> /l10n/index.html,255
> >> /l10n/adding_language.html,156
> >> /l10n/localization/translation.html,145
> >> /l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
> >> /l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
> >> /l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
> >> /l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
> >> /project/l10n/languages.html,33
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
> >> /l10n/how-to-join.html,20
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
> >> /l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
> >> /l10n/extract_merge.html,16
> >> /l10n/irc-channel.html,11
> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
> >> /l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
> >> /l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
> >> /l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
> >> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
> >> /l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
> >> /l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5
> >>
> >> So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
> >> pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
> >> pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.
> >>
> >> Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
> >> recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
> >> worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
> >> keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
> >> Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
> >> superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
> >> external links will automatically point to the updated content.
>

+1 that sound like a more sensible appoach.


> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> > http://es.openoffice.org
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
>> >> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
>> >> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
>> >> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
>> >> >
>> >> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct karma. I
>> >> cannot see it.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>> >> >
>> >> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I
>> >> have
>> >> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
>> >> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
>> >> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as well
>> as
>> >> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
>> >> structure is unstable.
>> >>
>> >
>> > That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work with.
>> If
>> > we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
>> right,
>> > loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets bored,
>> > the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
>> >
>>
>>
>> No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
>> We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
>> technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
>> existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
>> the website, then please speak up.
>>
>
>> Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
>> through September, I see the following total number of page hits
>> (total for the two months, not total per day):
>>
>
> I previously update many of the original l10n site, most of the content
> that is really irrelevant is unlinked. The pages that have questiable
> relevance are updated on the contact information, and the resources are
> well there. I want to know for example what would happened to the existing
> glossaries.
>
> The area that talk about TCM will be update with LinkTest information? will
> Linktest be used at all?
>
> I see many repeating sites like how_to_join.html on both projects, just
> updating the page with the l10n-new would be sufficient.
>
> IMO all this work from jan should have gone to one page
> "localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,", and from them moved on to the
> different sites. I understand the actual structural changes like the
> templates and contextual menus would be added files to the site.
>
> I would promote for deletion like you said, l10n/languages.html
> l10n/download/en-GB.html, project/l10n/languages.html only because they
> have nothing to do with the project, or have duplicated within the l10n
> project. example "supported languages".
>

OK how about we do this:  We copy Jan's new files into l10n, having it
be the new look and feel and default index.html.  Then we can hook up
relevant legacy content to the new home page.  Stuff that is not
hooked up, because it is outdated or superseded by new pages -- this
we can delete or ignore as appropriate.

In other words, we separate the new look and feel of the website from
the proposed new process.

-Rob

>
>
>>
>> Page,Pageviews
>> /l10n/languages.html,1077
>> /l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
>> /l10n/index.html,255
>> /l10n/adding_language.html,156
>> /l10n/localization/translation.html,145
>> /l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
>> /l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
>> /l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
>> /l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
>> /l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
>> /project/l10n/languages.html,33
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
>> /l10n/how-to-join.html,20
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
>> /l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
>> /l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
>> /l10n/extract_merge.html,16
>> /l10n/irc-channel.html,11
>> /l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
>> /l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
>> /l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
>> /l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
>> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
>> /l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
>> /l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5
>>
>> So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
>> pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
>> pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.
>>
>> Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
>> recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
>> worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
>> keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
>> Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
>> superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
>> external links will automatically point to the updated content.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 6:54 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
> >> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
> >> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
> >> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
> >> >
> >> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct karma. I
> >> cannot see it.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >> >
> >> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I
> >> have
> >> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
> >> > >
> >> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
> >> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
> >> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
> >> >
> >> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as well
> as
> >> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
> >> structure is unstable.
> >>
> >
> > That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work with.
> If
> > we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and
> right,
> > loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets bored,
> > the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
> >
>
>
> No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
> We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
> technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
> existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
> the website, then please speak up.
>

> Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
> through September, I see the following total number of page hits
> (total for the two months, not total per day):
>

I previously update many of the original l10n site, most of the content
that is really irrelevant is unlinked. The pages that have questiable
relevance are updated on the contact information, and the resources are
well there. I want to know for example what would happened to the existing
glossaries.

The area that talk about TCM will be update with LinkTest information? will
Linktest be used at all?

I see many repeating sites like how_to_join.html on both projects, just
updating the page with the l10n-new would be sufficient.

IMO all this work from jan should have gone to one page
"localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,", and from them moved on to the
different sites. I understand the actual structural changes like the
templates and contextual menus would be added files to the site.

I would promote for deletion like you said, l10n/languages.html
l10n/download/en-GB.html, project/l10n/languages.html only because they
have nothing to do with the project, or have duplicated within the l10n
project. example "supported languages".



>
> Page,Pageviews
> /l10n/languages.html,1077
> /l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
> /l10n/index.html,255
> /l10n/adding_language.html,156
> /l10n/localization/translation.html,145
> /l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
> /l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
> /l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
> /l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
> /l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
> /project/l10n/languages.html,33
> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
> /l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
> /l10n/how-to-join.html,20
> /l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
> /l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
> /l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
> /l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
> /l10n/extract_merge.html,16
> /l10n/irc-channel.html,11
> /l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
> /l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
> /l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
> /l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
> /l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
> /l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
> /l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
> /l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5
>
> So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
> pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
> pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.
>
> Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
> recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
> worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
> keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
> Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
> superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
> external links will automatically point to the updated content.
>
> -Rob
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 3:06 AM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
>> > >
>> >
>> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
>> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
>> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
>> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
>> >
>> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct karma. I
>> cannot see it.
>>
>> >
>> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>> >
>> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I
>> have
>> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
>> > >
>> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
>> > >
>> >
>> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
>> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
>> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
>> >
>> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as well as
>> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
>> structure is unstable.
>>
>
> That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work with. If
> we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and right,
> loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets bored,
> the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".
>


No one is trashing projects left and right.  No one is losing data.
We're not discussing future developers, etc.  If you have any
technical approaches with the current approach, or if there is some
existing content on the l10n site that you think should remain live on
the website, then please speak up.

Looking at Google Analytics data for the old l10n site, from August
through September, I see the following total number of page hits
(total for the two months, not total per day):

Page,Pageviews
/l10n/languages.html,1077
/l10n/download/en-GB.html,496
/l10n/index.html,255
/l10n/adding_language.html,156
/l10n/localization/translation.html,145
/l10n/localization/OpenOffice_Glossary.html,88
/l10n/localization/About_TCM.html,54
/l10n/localization/English_Russian_OOo_Glossary.html,47
/l10n/L10N_Framework/iso_code_build2.html,40
/l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddEncoding.html,38
/l10n/all_supported_languages.html,35
/project/l10n/languages.html,33
/l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_Writing_in_Calc.html,28
/l10n/i18n_framework/Vertical_writing_in_Writer.html,23
/l10n/how-to-join.html,20
/l10n/i18n_framework/LocaleData.html,19
/l10n/localization/L10n_testplan.html,19
/l10n/i18n_framework/Grid_layout_for_CJK.html,18
/l10n/localization/English_Greek_OOo_Glossary.html,18
/l10n/extract_merge.html,16
/l10n/irc-channel.html,11
/l10n/L10N_Framework/How_to_localize_and_build_OpenOffice.html,10
/l10n/L10N_Framework/Intermediate_file_format.html,10
/l10n/i18n_framework/CTL_Feature_Priorisation.html,8
/l10n/mailing-lists.html,8
/l10n/localization/Translation_Tips.html,7
/l10n/i18n_framework/HowToAddLocaleInI18n.html,6
/l10n/localization/L10n_pilotprocess.html,6
/l10n/localization/English_Serbian_OOo_Glossary.html,5

So there is some things getting traffic, although some of these same
pages are far out of date.  For example, the en-GB download page is
pointing to an ancient 2.02 version of OOo.

Since in many cases there are external links to these pages, I'd
recommend a bulk move to an /archive directory.  If the content is
worth keeping, it is worth keeping in the same location, and worth
keeping up to date.  Otherwise we should delete and know that
Subversion has a copy for archival purposes.   And if a page has been
superseded by a new page, we should keep the same HTML page name, so
external links will automatically point to the updated content.

-Rob

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:43 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
> > >
> >
> > OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
> > when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
> > blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
> > Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
> >
> I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct karma. I
> cannot see it.
>
> >
> > So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >
> > > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I
> have
> > > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
> > >
> > > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
> > >
> >
> > It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
> > now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
> > existing l10n directory and move this version in?
> >
> Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as well as
> others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
> structure is unstable.
>

That is what I was afraid off, this is just a horrible way to work with. If
we go with Jan way of working we would be trashing projects left and right,
loosing data every guy that comes back and pick it up. If he gets bored,
the next guy will trash it's work and "start from rock bottom".

"-1"



>
> But of course I would be happy to get more context, if that is needed to
> make it lift off.
>
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > > rgds
> > > jan I.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 1 November 2012 20:25, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:22 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > That worked....with one excepttion.
> > >> >
> > >> > There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty,
> with
> > no
> > >> > possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> You might need to scroll down.   Mdtext files have a body and then
> > >> additional metadata that shows in a separate edit field in the CMS.
> > >>
> > >> -Rob
> > >>
> > >> > home:       home
> > >> > search:     search
> > >> > name:       Apache OpenOffice
> > >> > tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
> > >> > logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
> > >> > domain:     www.openoffice.org
> > >> > divid:      bannera
> > >> > announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
> > >> > announceurl:
> > >> >
> > http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
> > >> > announcetip:    Read the announcement
> > >> >
> > >> > ---
> > >> > is that a special case ??
> > >> >
> > >> > I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the
> normal
> > >> > CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !
> > >> >
> > >> > jan
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <
> jancasacondor@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> > I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <
> > jancasacondor@gmail.com
> > >> >
> > >> >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > HELP !!!
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I
> wanted
> > to
> > >> use
> > >> >> >> but
> > >> >> >> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I
> > am
> > >> >> >> presented
> > >> >> >> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS
> Web
> > >> >> >> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd
> just
> > >> add
> > >> >> >> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the
> > CMS
> > >> >> >> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a
> preview.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> > I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
> > >> >> l10n-new I
> > >> >> > can see that she published it...
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I
> do
> > not
> > >> >> > understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
> > >> >> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If
> someone
> > >> >> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
> > >> >> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS
> web
> > >> >> UI at the level of a file or directory.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -Rob
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can
> > forget
> > >> CMS
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> >> > do it in SVN directly ???
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext
> > or
> > >> >> >> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it
> > uses
> > >> >> >> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN
> > if
> > >> >> >> you want.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
> > >> >> >> non-documentary
> > >> >> >> > programmers :-)
> > >> >> >> > Jan I.
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <
> jancasacondor@gmail.com>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >> >> >> See below please.
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <
> > >> arielch@apache.org
> > >> >> >> >wrote:
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> > >> >> >> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the
> > site
> > >> >> >> >>> template, to
> > >> >> >> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a
> > sort of
> > >> >> >> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext?
> > You
> > >> can
> > >> >> >> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same
> > is
> > >> true
> > >> >> >> for
> > >> >> >> >>> the left and right bars.
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
> > >> >> >> topnav.mdtext
> > >> >> >> >> correctly.
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better
> > >> posted
> > >> >> on
> > >> >> >> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this
> > >> mailing
> > >> >> >> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can
> > get
> > >> >> >> answers
> > >> >> >> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement
> by
> > >> Rob,
> > >> >> >> and I
> > >> >> >> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads
> unless
> > >> >> >> absolutely
> > >> >> >> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change
> > l10n
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> >> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important
> to
> > me.
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>> Regards
> > >> >> >> >>> --
> > >> >> >> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> > >> >> >> >>> La Plata, Argentina
> > >> >> >> >>>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

On 1 November 2012 21:04, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
> >
>
> OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
> when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
> blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
> Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".
>
I think "page header" is restricted to people with the correct karma. I
cannot see it.

>
> So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>
> > However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I have
> > just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
> >
> > Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
> >
>
> It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
> now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
> existing l10n directory and move this version in?
>
Yes, my idea was to start on the rock bottom, and then I could (as well as
others) add more content. It is difficult to add contents when the
structure is unstable.

But of course I would be happy to get more context, if that is needed to
make it lift off.

>
> -Rob
>
> > rgds
> > jan I.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1 November 2012 20:25, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:22 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > That worked....with one excepttion.
> >> >
> >> > There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty, with
> no
> >> > possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:
> >> >
> >>
> >> You might need to scroll down.   Mdtext files have a body and then
> >> additional metadata that shows in a separate edit field in the CMS.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >> > home:       home
> >> > search:     search
> >> > name:       Apache OpenOffice
> >> > tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
> >> > logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
> >> > domain:     www.openoffice.org
> >> > divid:      bannera
> >> > announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
> >> > announceurl:
> >> >
> http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
> >> > announcetip:    Read the announcement
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> > is that a special case ??
> >> >
> >> > I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the normal
> >> > CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !
> >> >
> >> > jan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com
> >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <
> jancasacondor@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > HELP !!!
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted
> to
> >> use
> >> >> >> but
> >> >> >> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I
> am
> >> >> >> presented
> >> >> >> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
> >> >> >> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just
> >> add
> >> >> >> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the
> CMS
> >> >> >> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
> >> >> l10n-new I
> >> >> > can see that she published it...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do
> not
> >> >> > understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
> >> >> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If someone
> >> >> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
> >> >> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS web
> >> >> UI at the level of a file or directory.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Rob
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can
> forget
> >> CMS
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> > do it in SVN directly ???
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext
> or
> >> >> >> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it
> uses
> >> >> >> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN
> if
> >> >> >> you want.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
> >> >> >> non-documentary
> >> >> >> > programmers :-)
> >> >> >> > Jan I.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> See below please.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <
> >> arielch@apache.org
> >> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> >> >> >> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the
> site
> >> >> >> >>> template, to
> >> >> >> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a
> sort of
> >> >> >> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext?
> You
> >> can
> >> >> >> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same
> is
> >> true
> >> >> >> for
> >> >> >> >>> the left and right bars.
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
> >> >> >> topnav.mdtext
> >> >> >> >> correctly.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better
> >> posted
> >> >> on
> >> >> >> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this
> >> mailing
> >> >> >> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can
> get
> >> >> >> answers
> >> >> >> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by
> >> Rob,
> >> >> >> and I
> >> >> >> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
> >> >> >> absolutely
> >> >> >> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change
> l10n
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to
> me.
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>> Regards
> >> >> >> >>> --
> >> >> >> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >> >> >> >>> La Plata, Argentina
> >> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:49 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.
>

OK.  I had to do an update first, to suck it into the CMS.  But then
when I went to edit brand,mdtext, I saw the "edit" area, which was
blank, and directly beneath that another edit control called "Page
Header" that contained the lines like "home:       home".

So here it is now:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/

> However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I have
> just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).
>
> Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?
>

It needs some more editing and content, but the structure looks good
now.  Something we can build on.  Was the idea to wipe clean the
existing l10n directory and move this version in?

-Rob

> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
>
> On 1 November 2012 20:25, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:22 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > That worked....with one excepttion.
>> >
>> > There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty, with no
>> > possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:
>> >
>>
>> You might need to scroll down.   Mdtext files have a body and then
>> additional metadata that shows in a separate edit field in the CMS.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> > home:       home
>> > search:     search
>> > name:       Apache OpenOffice
>> > tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
>> > logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
>> > domain:     www.openoffice.org
>> > divid:      bannera
>> > announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
>> > announceurl:
>> > http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
>> > announcetip:    Read the announcement
>> >
>> > ---
>> > is that a special case ??
>> >
>> > I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the normal
>> > CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !
>> >
>> > jan
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com
>> >
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > HELP !!!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to
>> use
>> >> >> but
>> >> >> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am
>> >> >> presented
>> >> >> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
>> >> >> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just
>> add
>> >> >> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
>> >> >> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
>> >> >>
>> >> > I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
>> >> l10n-new I
>> >> > can see that she published it...
>> >> >
>> >> > So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do not
>> >> > understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
>> >> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If someone
>> >> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
>> >> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS web
>> >> UI at the level of a file or directory.
>> >>
>> >> -Rob
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget
>> CMS
>> >> and
>> >> >> > do it in SVN directly ???
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
>> >> >> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
>> >> >> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
>> >> >> you want.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
>> >> >> non-documentary
>> >> >> > programmers :-)
>> >> >> > Jan I.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> See below please.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <
>> arielch@apache.org
>> >> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
>> >> >> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
>> >> >> >>> template, to
>> >> >> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
>> >> >> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You
>> can
>> >> >> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is
>> true
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> >>> the left and right bars.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
>> >> >> topnav.mdtext
>> >> >> >> correctly.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better
>> posted
>> >> on
>> >> >> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this
>> mailing
>> >> >> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get
>> >> >> answers
>> >> >> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by
>> Rob,
>> >> >> and I
>> >> >> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
>> >> >> absolutely
>> >> >> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Regards
>> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> >> >> >>> La Plata, Argentina
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Please could you try it, I might be blind but I get an empty page.

However that is not soo important, Ariel made a perfect job...and I have
just posted (through cms) the other changed (index and leftnav).

Do you think it is about time to make the site "official" ?

rgds
jan I.



On 1 November 2012 20:25, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:22 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > That worked....with one excepttion.
> >
> > There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty, with no
> > possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:
> >
>
> You might need to scroll down.   Mdtext files have a body and then
> additional metadata that shows in a separate edit field in the CMS.
>
> -Rob
>
> > home:       home
> > search:     search
> > name:       Apache OpenOffice
> > tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
> > logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
> > domain:     www.openoffice.org
> > divid:      bannera
> > announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
> > announceurl:
> > http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
> > announcetip:    Read the announcement
> >
> > ---
> > is that a special case ??
> >
> > I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the normal
> > CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !
> >
> > jan
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
> >> >
> >> > On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <jancasacondor@gmail.com
> >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > HELP !!!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to
> use
> >> >> but
> >> >> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am
> >> >> presented
> >> >> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
> >> >> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just
> add
> >> >> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
> >> >> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
> >> >>
> >> > I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
> >> l10n-new I
> >> > can see that she published it...
> >> >
> >> > So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do not
> >> > understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
> >> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If someone
> >> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
> >> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS web
> >> UI at the level of a file or directory.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget
> CMS
> >> and
> >> >> > do it in SVN directly ???
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
> >> >> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
> >> >> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
> >> >> you want.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
> >> >> non-documentary
> >> >> > programmers :-)
> >> >> > Jan I.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> See below please.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <
> arielch@apache.org
> >> >> >wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> >> >> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
> >> >> >>> template, to
> >> >> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
> >> >> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You
> can
> >> >> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is
> true
> >> >> for
> >> >> >>> the left and right bars.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
> >> >> topnav.mdtext
> >> >> >> correctly.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better
> posted
> >> on
> >> >> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this
> mailing
> >> >> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get
> >> >> answers
> >> >> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by
> Rob,
> >> >> and I
> >> >> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
> >> >> absolutely
> >> >> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n
> >> and
> >> >> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Regards
> >> >> >>> --
> >> >> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >> >> >>> La Plata, Argentina
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:22 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> That worked....with one excepttion.
>
> There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty, with no
> possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:
>

You might need to scroll down.   Mdtext files have a body and then
additional metadata that shows in a separate edit field in the CMS.

-Rob

> home:       home
> search:     search
> name:       Apache OpenOffice
> tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
> logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
> domain:     www.openoffice.org
> divid:      bannera
> announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
> announceurl:
> http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
> announcetip:    Read the announcement
>
> ---
> is that a special case ??
>
> I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the normal
> CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !
>
> jan
>
>
>
> On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
>> >
>> > On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > HELP !!!
>> >> >
>> >> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to use
>> >> but
>> >> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am
>> >> presented
>> >> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
>> >> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just add
>> >> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
>> >> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
>> >>
>> > I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
>> l10n-new I
>> > can see that she published it...
>> >
>> > So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do not
>> > understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
>> >
>>
>> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
>> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If someone
>> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
>> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS web
>> UI at the level of a file or directory.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget CMS
>> and
>> >> > do it in SVN directly ???
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
>> >> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
>> >> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
>> >> you want.
>> >>
>> >> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
>> >> non-documentary
>> >> > programmers :-)
>> >> > Jan I.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> See below please.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <arielch@apache.org
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
>> >> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
>> >> >>> template, to
>> >> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
>> >> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
>> >> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true
>> >> for
>> >> >>> the left and right bars.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
>> >> topnav.mdtext
>> >> >> correctly.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted
>> on
>> >> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
>> >> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get
>> >> answers
>> >> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob,
>> >> and I
>> >> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
>> >> absolutely
>> >> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n
>> and
>> >> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Regards
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> >> >>> La Plata, Argentina
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

That worked....with one excepttion.

There is a file called brand.mdtext, in cms it show up as empty, with no
possibility to edit it, but SVN shows the content as:

home:       home
search:     search
name:       Apache OpenOffice
tagline:    The Free and Open Productivity Suite
logo:       AOO_logos/OOo_Website_v2_copy.png
domain:     www.openoffice.org
divid:      bannera
announce:   OpenOffice graduates from the Apache Incubator!
announceurl:
http://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/openoffice_graduates_from_the_apache
announcetip:    Read the announcement

---
is that a special case ??

I will edit the other parts and send the diff files, using the normal
CMS way, BIG thanks to ariel !

jan



On 1 November 2012 20:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
> >
> > On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > HELP !!!
> >> >
> >> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to use
> >> but
> >> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am
> >> presented
> >> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
> >> >
> >>
> >> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
> >> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just add
> >> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
> >> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
> >>
> > I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at
> l10n-new I
> > can see that she published it...
> >
> > So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do not
> > understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
> >
>
> Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
> looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If someone
> changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
> that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS web
> UI at the level of a file or directory.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> >
> >>
> >> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget CMS
> and
> >> > do it in SVN directly ???
> >> >
> >>
> >> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
> >> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
> >> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
> >> you want.
> >>
> >> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
> >> non-documentary
> >> > programmers :-)
> >> > Jan I.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> See below please.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <arielch@apache.org
> >> >wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> >> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
> >> >>> template, to
> >> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
> >> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
> >> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true
> >> for
> >> >>> the left and right bars.
> >> >>>
> >> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
> >> topnav.mdtext
> >> >> correctly.
> >> >>
> >> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted
> on
> >> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
> >> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get
> >> answers
> >> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
> >> >>>
> >> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob,
> >> and I
> >> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
> >> absolutely
> >> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n
> and
> >> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Regards
> >> >>> --
> >> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >> >>> La Plata, Argentina
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:07 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.
>
> On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > HELP !!!
>> >
>> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to use
>> but
>> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am
>> presented
>> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
>> >
>>
>> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
>> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just add
>> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
>> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
>>
> I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at l10n-new I
> can see that she published it...
>
> So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do not
> understand how we work with cms and mdtext.
>

Ah. OK.  You might need to do an "update" in the CMS.  The CMS is
looking at a working copy of the website's source files.  If someone
changes something directly via an SVN checkin, the CMS does not see
that change until you do an update.  This can be done via the CMS web
UI at the level of a file or directory.

-Rob


>
>>
>> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget CMS and
>> > do it in SVN directly ???
>> >
>>
>> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
>> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
>> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
>> you want.
>>
>> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
>> non-documentary
>> > programmers :-)
>> > Jan I.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> See below please.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <arielch@apache.org
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
>> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
>> >>> template, to
>> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
>> >>>
>> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
>> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
>> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true
>> for
>> >>> the left and right bars.
>> >>>
>> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
>> topnav.mdtext
>> >> correctly.
>> >>
>> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted on
>> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
>> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get
>> answers
>> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
>> >>>
>> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob,
>> and I
>> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
>> absolutely
>> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n and
>> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards
>> >>> --
>> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> >>> La Plata, Argentina
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

I am confused, please forgive me for being a novice.

On 1 November 2012 20:01, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > HELP !!!
> >
> > Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to use
> but
> > when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am
> presented
> > with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
> >
>
> If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
> interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just add
> a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
> web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.
>
I can see that Ariel committed the mdtext in SVN, and looking at l10n-new I
can see that she published it...

So I would have expected cms to show me mdtext ???? otherwise I do not
understand how we work with cms and mdtext.


>
> > Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget CMS and
> > do it in SVN directly ???
> >
>
> The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
> any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
> SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
> you want.
>
> > Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for
> non-documentary
> > programmers :-)
> > Jan I.
> >
> >
> > On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> See below please.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <arielch@apache.org
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> >>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
> >>> template, to
> >>> > include context-specific menus ?
> >>>
> >>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
> >>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
> >>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true
> for
> >>> the left and right bars.
> >>>
> >> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see
> topnav.mdtext
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted on
> >>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
> >>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get
> answers
> >>> from the CMS experts ;)
> >>>
> >> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob,
> and I
> >> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless
> absolutely
> >> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
> >>
> >> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n and
> >> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> --
> >>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> >>> La Plata, Argentina
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:45 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> HELP !!!
>
> Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to use but
> when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am presented
> with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????
>

If the original file checked in is HTML, I'm not sure the CMS Web
interface will allow you to rename it to a .mdtext file.  I'd just add
a new index.mdtext or whatever.  If the file is mdtext then the CMS
web interface will give you an mdtext-specific UI with a preview.

> Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget CMS and
> do it in SVN directly ???
>

The CMS is a shortcut to making simple changes to HTML or Mdtext or
any other text-based files on the website.  Behind the scenes it uses
SVN to check in the files.   You can always do everything in SVN if
you want.

> Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for non-documentary
> programmers :-)
> Jan I.
>
>
> On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> See below please.
>>
>>
>> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
>>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
>>> template, to
>>> > include context-specific menus ?
>>>
>>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
>>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
>>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true for
>>> the left and right bars.
>>>
>> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see topnav.mdtext
>> correctly.
>>
>> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted on
>>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
>>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get answers
>>> from the CMS experts ;)
>>>
>> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob, and I
>> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless absolutely
>> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
>>
>> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n and
>> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> --
>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>>> La Plata, Argentina
>>>
>>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

HELP !!!

Ariel created very nice mdtext files to help me, which I wanted to use but
when I follow Rob´s introduction (youtube) on how to use CMS I am presented
with HTML....what am I doing wrong ????

Is it correct to assume that if I want to use mdtext I can forget CMS and
do it in SVN directly ???

Sorry for asking, but this does not seem to be obvious for non-documentary
programmers :-)
Jan I.


On 1 November 2012 18:57, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> See below please.
>
>
> On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
>> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site
>> template, to
>> > include context-specific menus ?
>>
>> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
>> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
>> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true for
>> the left and right bars.
>>
> Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see topnav.mdtext
> correctly.
>
> With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!
>
>
>
>>
>> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted on
>> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
>> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get answers
>> from the CMS experts ;)
>>
> I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob, and I
> am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless absolutely
> unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.
>
> Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n and
> still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.
>
>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> --
>> Ariel Constenla-Haile
>> La Plata, Argentina
>>
>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

See below please.


On 1 November 2012 18:45, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> > Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site template,
> to
> > include context-specific menus ?
>
> Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
> context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
> change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true for
> the left and right bars.
>
Now  I really feel like a "noise provoker", NO I did not see topnav.mdtext
correctly.

With that you have solved all my problems, THANKS you !!!



>
> Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted on
> ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
> list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get answers
> from the CMS experts ;)
>
I agree, this thread was just started due to an announcement by Rob, and I
am at the moment very cautious not to start new threads unless absolutely
unavoidable due to a reminder on the dev list.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me, now I can change l10n and
still be with the scope of the standard, which is important to me.


>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 06:25:12PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site template, to
> include context-specific menus ?

Dynamic menus are not possible. What we already have is a sort of
context-specific menu, did you take a look at topnav.mdtext? You can
change the top navigation bar to whatever you want. The same is true for
the left and right bars.

Note that website threads, even related to l10n, are better posted on
ooo-dev, with a proper [www] tag; we should try to keep this mailing
list with the low traffic, if possible; beside there you can get answers
from the CMS experts ;)


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Thanks again, you are one big source of information AND help.

Did you have an opinion on my request for a change of the site template, to
include context-specific menus ?

jan


On 1 November 2012 18:09, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 05:40:15PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> > oooh...too bad, I thought it was a proper apache server installation.
>
> We are at the Apache HTTP server home! I assume it's a proper server
> installation; it's just not LAMP (AFAIK the ASF does not even use Linux,
> it uses versions of BDS).
>
> If you want to play with the site, that is, building it yourself, you
> only need an Apache server, no need for PHP.
>
> > Do you know if templates can handle that kind of "if exist" choices ?
>
> The CMS supports Dotiac::DTL, a perl port of django's templating
> library, see
>
> http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html#solution
> http://www.dotiac.com/cgi-bin/index.pl
>
> It knows conditional statements, loops, etc. but all these is static:
> you have to build the site in order to generate the content, which ends
> up being static, aside from the SSI.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 05:40:15PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> oooh...too bad, I thought it was a proper apache server installation.

We are at the Apache HTTP server home! I assume it's a proper server
installation; it's just not LAMP (AFAIK the ASF does not even use Linux,
it uses versions of BDS).

If you want to play with the site, that is, building it yourself, you
only need an Apache server, no need for PHP.

> Do you know if templates can handle that kind of "if exist" choices ?

The CMS supports Dotiac::DTL, a perl port of django's templating
library, see 

http://www.apache.org/dev/cms.html#solution
http://www.dotiac.com/cgi-bin/index.pl

It knows conditional statements, loops, etc. but all these is static:
you have to build the site in order to generate the content, which ends
up being static, aside from the SSI.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

oooh...too bad, I thought it was a proper apache server installation.

Do you know if templates can handle that kind of "if exist" choices ?

Jan.

On 1 November 2012 17:11, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi Jan,
>
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 01:40:36PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> > Thanks a lot ariel.
> >
> > You have made them all, so I just need to do a little finetuning.
> >
> > However I do have a proposal for the site-wide template.
> >
> > - Could we please have "context-sensitive" menus.
> >
> > If I (being a web user) goto l10n.openOffice.org and click on
> "support", I
> > expect support for l10n, and not the generic support. Especially for l10n
> > the same is true for "native languages".
> >
> > It is quite easy to make the menus context sensitive, instead of
> referring
> > in href to /support it should be something like
> > <a href=localOverwrite.php?page=support
> >
> > The php function should look in current directory (l10n in my case) and
> if
> > there exist a file support.html use it, or else use /support.php
> >
> > That way, our menus is consistent (which is good), but the content can be
> > different depending on where you are.
> >
> > Could that be an idea ??
>
> no, sorry, but Apache site does not use PHP at all. The site is mainly
> static, it has server side includes only, there is cgi too, but
> I haven't seen it used anywhere.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

Hi Jan,

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 01:40:36PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
> Thanks a lot ariel.
> 
> You have made them all, so I just need to do a little finetuning.
> 
> However I do have a proposal for the site-wide template.
> 
> - Could we please have "context-sensitive" menus.
> 
> If I (being a web user) goto l10n.openOffice.org and click on "support", I
> expect support for l10n, and not the generic support. Especially for l10n
> the same is true for "native languages".
> 
> It is quite easy to make the menus context sensitive, instead of referring
> in href to /support it should be something like
> <a href=localOverwrite.php?page=support
> 
> The php function should look in current directory (l10n in my case) and if
> there exist a file support.html use it, or else use /support.php
> 
> That way, our menus is consistent (which is good), but the content can be
> different depending on where you are.
> 
> Could that be an idea ??

no, sorry, but Apache site does not use PHP at all. The site is mainly
static, it has server side includes only, there is cgi too, but
I haven't seen it used anywhere.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Thanks a lot ariel.

You have made them all, so I just need to do a little finetuning.

However I do have a proposal for the site-wide template.

- Could we please have "context-sensitive" menus.

If I (being a web user) goto l10n.openOffice.org and click on "support", I
expect support for l10n, and not the generic support. Especially for l10n
the same is true for "native languages".

It is quite easy to make the menus context sensitive, instead of referring
in href to /support it should be something like
<a href=localOverwrite.php?page=support

The php function should look in current directory (l10n in my case) and if
there exist a file support.html use it, or else use /support.php

That way, our menus is consistent (which is good), but the content can be
different depending on where you are.

Could that be an idea ??

Jan

On 1 November 2012 07:11, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:06:02PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> > OK.  It sounds like you are missing the context here.  Jan emailed me
> > these updated files so I could check them in.  Anyone who wishes to
> > review them can do so.  I certainly am.  There are some issues on the
> > page currently.  When these are taken care of, then of course we'll
> > put them in the normal directly.  But right now they are suffering
> > some serious issues with the site template.
>
> @Jan: I did a skeleton for you to play with; it all markdown, if he
> wants more fancy things he has to make new templates (see
> incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/) or play with CSS (the site
> supports per-markdown-page CSS style sheets, add css: to the page
> header; see /es/noticias/index.mdtext and /es/producto/index.mdtext).
>
> In order to understand how the site works, browse for Dave Fisher mails
> in ooo-dev. Then start by
>
> ooo-site/trunk/templates/l10n-new/ssi.mdtext
>
> that file defines the includes, in this file these are named as .html
> files,
> you will find them as .mdtext in /l10n-new:
>
> brand.mdtext
> topnav.mdtext
> leftnav.mdtext
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:06:02PM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> OK.  It sounds like you are missing the context here.  Jan emailed me
> these updated files so I could check them in.  Anyone who wishes to
> review them can do so.  I certainly am.  There are some issues on the
> page currently.  When these are taken care of, then of course we'll
> put them in the normal directly.  But right now they are suffering
> some serious issues with the site template.

@Jan: I did a skeleton for you to play with; it all markdown, if he
wants more fancy things he has to make new templates (see
incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/) or play with CSS (the site
supports per-markdown-page CSS style sheets, add css: to the page
header; see /es/noticias/index.mdtext and /es/producto/index.mdtext).

In order to understand how the site works, browse for Dave Fisher mails
in ooo-dev. Then start by

ooo-site/trunk/templates/l10n-new/ssi.mdtext

that file defines the includes, in this file these are named as .html files,
you will find them as .mdtext in /l10n-new:

brand.mdtext
topnav.mdtext
leftnav.mdtext


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:46 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>>>>
>>>>> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
>>>> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
>>>> the old directory with this one.
>>>
>>> I am sorry, this doesn't make sense, sounds like the plan of the plan.
>>> I would go on commiting the data and if there are changes or
>>> rollbacks, just update the pages/sites.  That's the whole point of
>>> using a version control system/wiki IMO. AFAIK just unlinking will
>>
>>
>> Obviously I disagree.  The fact that we have version control does not
>> mean we can just overwrite stuff on a production server with
>> unreviewed changes.
>
> Who exactly is going to review those changes, the reviewers or authors
> are long gone from the project. Right now mantaining that content is
> doing more harm than just having incomplete fresh content.
>

OK.  It sounds like you are missing the context here.  Jan emailed me
these updated files so I could check them in.  Anyone who wishes to
review them can do so.  I certainly am.  There are some issues on the
page currently.  When these are taken care of, then of course we'll
put them in the normal directly.  But right now they are suffering
some serious issues with the site template.  I'd rather take care of
that now rather than debate the theory of version control.  OK?

-Rob


>
>>
>>> have a non-destructive effect to the past content if we are trying to
>>> preserve things live, otherwise it will just go on the revision
>>> history.
>>>
>>> I looked at the l10n-new and not a lot of data is in it, I would just
>>> merge it back with l10n and comment whatever seems 'outdated'.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>>>>>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>>>>>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>>>>>> template.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>>>>>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>>>>>> Analytics declarations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>>>
>>>> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>>>>
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>>>>
>>>> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
>>> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
>>> the old directory with this one.
>>
>> I am sorry, this doesn't make sense, sounds like the plan of the plan.
>> I would go on commiting the data and if there are changes or
>> rollbacks, just update the pages/sites.  That's the whole point of
>> using a version control system/wiki IMO. AFAIK just unlinking will
>
>
> Obviously I disagree.  The fact that we have version control does not
> mean we can just overwrite stuff on a production server with
> unreviewed changes.

Who exactly is going to review those changes, the reviewers or authors
are long gone from the project. Right now mantaining that content is
doing more harm than just having incomplete fresh content.


>
>> have a non-destructive effect to the past content if we are trying to
>> preserve things live, otherwise it will just go on the revision
>> history.
>>
>> I looked at the l10n-new and not a lot of data is in it, I would just
>> merge it back with l10n and comment whatever seems 'outdated'.
>>
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>>>>
>>>>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>>>>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>>>>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>>>>> template.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>>>>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>>>>> Analytics declarations.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Rob
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:23 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>>
>>> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>>>
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>>>
>>> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>>>
>>
>> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
>> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
>> the old directory with this one.
>
> I am sorry, this doesn't make sense, sounds like the plan of the plan.
> I would go on commiting the data and if there are changes or
> rollbacks, just update the pages/sites.  That's the whole point of
> using a version control system/wiki IMO. AFAIK just unlinking will


Obviously I disagree.  The fact that we have version control does not
mean we can just overwrite stuff on a production server with
unreviewed changes.

> have a non-destructive effect to the past content if we are trying to
> preserve things live, otherwise it will just go on the revision
> history.
>
> I looked at the l10n-new and not a lot of data is in it, I would just
> merge it back with l10n and comment whatever seems 'outdated'.
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>>>
>>>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>>>
>>>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>>>
>>>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>>>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>>>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>>>> template.
>>>>
>>>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>>>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>>>> Analytics declarations.
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alexandro Colorado
>>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>> http://es.openoffice.org
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>
>> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>>
>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>>
>> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>>
>
> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
> the old directory with this one.

I am sorry, this doesn't make sense, sounds like the plan of the plan.
I would go on commiting the data and if there are changes or
rollbacks, just update the pages/sites.  That's the whole point of
using a version control system/wiki IMO. AFAIK just unlinking will
have a non-destructive effect to the past content if we are trying to
preserve things live, otherwise it will just go on the revision
history.

I looked at the l10n-new and not a lot of data is in it, I would just
merge it back with l10n and comment whatever seems 'outdated'.

>
> -Rob
>
>>>
>>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>>
>>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>>
>>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>>> template.
>>>
>>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>>> Analytics declarations.
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alexandro Colorado
>> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> http://es.openoffice.org
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile
<ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 11:47:18AM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> Sure, not a problem.  If at all possible, it is a good practice to
>> grab the source from Subversion, to a genuine local working copy, and
>> then post your changes, including additions, as a diff file.
>>
>> See:  http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/svn-basics.html#creating_and_submitting_patches
>>
>> Give it a try,  All the cool contributors use Subversion ;-)
>
> Two advices before Jan gives it a try:
>
> - make sure you have enough space, the whole checkout is circa 9 GB,
>   besides the website gets "compiled", ca. 5 GB more
>

But it should be enough to check out only the tree of interest, in
this case only ooo-site/content/l10n-new

That is a start.

But you are right, that the whole website gets quite large.

-Rob


> - Subversion really sucks, I would recommend to work with git-svn,
>   specially with a repo this size
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

See below please.


On 1 November 2012 17:15, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 11:47:18AM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> > Sure, not a problem.  If at all possible, it is a good practice to
> > grab the source from Subversion, to a genuine local working copy, and
> > then post your changes, including additions, as a diff file.
> >
> > See:
> http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/svn-basics.html#creating_and_submitting_patches
> >
> > Give it a try,  All the cool contributors use Subversion ;-)
>
> Two advices before Jan gives it a try:
>
> - make sure you have enough space, the whole checkout is circa 9 GB,
>   besides the website gets "compiled", ca. 5 GB more
>
I have about 3 Tb, so that is not the problem, download seems to more of an
issue. Apache dont like me hanging in there for hours downloading.


>
> - Subversion really sucks, I would recommend to work with git-svn,
>   specially with a repo this size
>
Due to a hint from Juergen (for AOO source), I am already doing that.

But big THANKS for your advice.


>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
> La Plata, Argentina
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>]

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 11:47:18AM -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> Sure, not a problem.  If at all possible, it is a good practice to
> grab the source from Subversion, to a genuine local working copy, and
> then post your changes, including additions, as a diff file.
> 
> See:  http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/svn-basics.html#creating_and_submitting_patches
> 
> Give it a try,  All the cool contributors use Subversion ;-)

Two advices before Jan gives it a try:

- make sure you have enough space, the whole checkout is circa 9 GB,
  besides the website gets "compiled", ca. 5 GB more

- Subversion really sucks, I would recommend to work with git-svn,
  specially with a repo this size


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 5:33 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow, that was a lot, but very informative (I have at least 5 markers for
> deeper analysis)...but it seems that the top-menu is part of the fixed
> design, even the product page uses it. But the product page shows a nice
> way of adding another menu system, which I will use.
>
> Give me a day or two, and I will have that updated.
>
> As Alexandro pointed out, the site is not big or with big content, that is
> on purpose, I wanted to establish a "bare bottom" from where  we can build.
>
> If there are other comments, or suggestions, please let me know, and I will
> include it in the update.
>
> rob:
> I hope it is ok, that I bother you to update the site again later this week
> ?


Sure, not a problem.  If at all possible, it is a good practice to
grab the source from Subversion, to a genuine local working copy, and
then post your changes, including additions, as a diff file.

See:  http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/svn-basics.html#creating_and_submitting_patches

Give it a try,  All the cool contributors use Subversion ;-)

-Rob

>
>
> On 31 October 2012 22:06, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for a swift answer, I will have a look at it, and send you a new
>> version...I want to adhere to standards !!
>>
>> I might rebel from time to time, but then I try to get the standard
>> changed instead of violating it.
>>
>> Jan.
>>
>>
>> On 31 October 2012 21:44, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:26 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Someday I will learn how the templates work. I looked at one wiki page,
>>> > that explained to use sort of variables, where the merged part should
>>> go.
>>> > How a template can merge into a full html, well thats pure magic.
>>> >
>>> > I to not want a special top or bottom....but I do want different menus,
>>> > since l10n has different topics. So if the template mingles with header
>>> and
>>> > body until the menu part, and again on the bottom (apache logo etc.) I
>>> will
>>> > be more than happy to use the template.
>>> >
>>>
>>> I have not looked into it, but this part of the website seems to
>>> handle a local look and feel, along with the site-wide parts:
>>>
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html
>>>
>>> Maybe reading through the way it was done here might help:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/
>>>
>>> It looks like they did it entirely as Markdown Text.  But that is a
>>> minor detail.
>>>
>>> The real magic happens here, I think, where the site templates are
>>> defined:
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/
>>>
>>> Note especially:
>>>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/product/ssi.mdtext
>>>
>>> Ah, and that then points back to:
>>>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/leftnav.mdtext
>>>
>>> I'd recommend poking around.  Or, if you think the look and feel of
>>> the "product" part of the website is good, maybe even just copy that
>>> and change the content of the left navigator to reflect the links that
>>> you want to highlight?
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > jan
>>> >
>>> > On 31 October 2012 19:42, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics,
>>> should I
>>> >> > change something ??
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd like to hear what Dave thinks on this.  He set up the site-wide
>>> >> template originally.
>>> >>
>>> >> > I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and
>>> >> ooo/l10n/index.html
>>> >> > was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to
>>> be
>>> >> the
>>> >> > text that goes into the template?
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Generally we check in complete HTML pages, with <html>, <head> and
>>> >> <body>.  The template is then applied it does its magic, which
>>> >> apparently merges elements in the <head>, applies navigation
>>> >> breadcrumbs, the constant license footer, consistent branding on the
>>> >> header, etc. I don't fully understand how it works, but most content
>>> >> authors can just ignore it.  It works that well that most can just
>>> >> ignore.
>>> >>
>>> >> But it looks like you want to adjust the template.  We'll see what
>>> >> Dave thinks on this.  Maybe we need to pipeline things so your changes
>>> >> are applied and then the site template is applied.  (It kind of looks
>>> >> like this is happening now).
>>> >>
>>> >> >  I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I
>>> >> used
>>> >> > the snip thing.
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Right.  But I think what we're seeing now is a fight between the
>>> >> site-wide rules and the local ones.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Rob
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > Jan.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to
>>> >> have
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once
>>> we've
>>> >> >> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we
>>> replace
>>> >> >> the old directory with this one.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> -Rob
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the
>>> website
>>> >> >> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>>> >> >> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the
>>> site-wide
>>> >> >> >> template.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want
>>> to
>>> >> >> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>>> >> >> >> Analytics declarations.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> -Rob
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> > --
>>> >> >> > Alexandro Colorado
>>> >> >> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>>> >> >> > http://es.openoffice.org
>>> >> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Wow, that was a lot, but very informative (I have at least 5 markers for
deeper analysis)...but it seems that the top-menu is part of the fixed
design, even the product page uses it. But the product page shows a nice
way of adding another menu system, which I will use.

Give me a day or two, and I will have that updated.

As Alexandro pointed out, the site is not big or with big content, that is
on purpose, I wanted to establish a "bare bottom" from where  we can build.

If there are other comments, or suggestions, please let me know, and I will
include it in the update.

rob:
I hope it is ok, that I bother you to update the site again later this week
?


On 31 October 2012 22:06, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for a swift answer, I will have a look at it, and send you a new
> version...I want to adhere to standards !!
>
> I might rebel from time to time, but then I try to get the standard
> changed instead of violating it.
>
> Jan.
>
>
> On 31 October 2012 21:44, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:26 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Someday I will learn how the templates work. I looked at one wiki page,
>> > that explained to use sort of variables, where the merged part should
>> go.
>> > How a template can merge into a full html, well thats pure magic.
>> >
>> > I to not want a special top or bottom....but I do want different menus,
>> > since l10n has different topics. So if the template mingles with header
>> and
>> > body until the menu part, and again on the bottom (apache logo etc.) I
>> will
>> > be more than happy to use the template.
>> >
>>
>> I have not looked into it, but this part of the website seems to
>> handle a local look and feel, along with the site-wide parts:
>>
>> http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html
>>
>> Maybe reading through the way it was done here might help:
>>
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/
>>
>> It looks like they did it entirely as Markdown Text.  But that is a
>> minor detail.
>>
>> The real magic happens here, I think, where the site templates are
>> defined:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/
>>
>> Note especially:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/product/ssi.mdtext
>>
>> Ah, and that then points back to:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/leftnav.mdtext
>>
>> I'd recommend poking around.  Or, if you think the look and feel of
>> the "product" part of the website is good, maybe even just copy that
>> and change the content of the left navigator to reflect the links that
>> you want to highlight?
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > jan
>> >
>> > On 31 October 2012 19:42, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics,
>> should I
>> >> > change something ??
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I'd like to hear what Dave thinks on this.  He set up the site-wide
>> >> template originally.
>> >>
>> >> > I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and
>> >> ooo/l10n/index.html
>> >> > was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to
>> be
>> >> the
>> >> > text that goes into the template?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Generally we check in complete HTML pages, with <html>, <head> and
>> >> <body>.  The template is then applied it does its magic, which
>> >> apparently merges elements in the <head>, applies navigation
>> >> breadcrumbs, the constant license footer, consistent branding on the
>> >> header, etc. I don't fully understand how it works, but most content
>> >> authors can just ignore it.  It works that well that most can just
>> >> ignore.
>> >>
>> >> But it looks like you want to adjust the template.  We'll see what
>> >> Dave thinks on this.  Maybe we need to pipeline things so your changes
>> >> are applied and then the site template is applied.  (It kind of looks
>> >> like this is happening now).
>> >>
>> >> >  I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I
>> >> used
>> >> > the snip thing.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Right.  But I think what we're seeing now is a fight between the
>> >> site-wide rules and the local ones.
>> >>
>> >> -Rob
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > Jan.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to
>> >> have
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once
>> we've
>> >> >> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we
>> replace
>> >> >> the old directory with this one.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Rob
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the
>> website
>> >> >> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>> >> >> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the
>> site-wide
>> >> >> >> template.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want
>> to
>> >> >> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>> >> >> >> Analytics declarations.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -Rob
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Alexandro Colorado
>> >> >> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> >> > http://es.openoffice.org
>> >> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Thanks for a swift answer, I will have a look at it, and send you a new
version...I want to adhere to standards !!

I might rebel from time to time, but then I try to get the standard changed
instead of violating it.

Jan.

On 31 October 2012 21:44, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:26 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Someday I will learn how the templates work. I looked at one wiki page,
> > that explained to use sort of variables, where the merged part should go.
> > How a template can merge into a full html, well thats pure magic.
> >
> > I to not want a special top or bottom....but I do want different menus,
> > since l10n has different topics. So if the template mingles with header
> and
> > body until the menu part, and again on the bottom (apache logo etc.) I
> will
> > be more than happy to use the template.
> >
>
> I have not looked into it, but this part of the website seems to
> handle a local look and feel, along with the site-wide parts:
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html
>
> Maybe reading through the way it was done here might help:
>
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/
>
> It looks like they did it entirely as Markdown Text.  But that is a
> minor detail.
>
> The real magic happens here, I think, where the site templates are
> defined:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/
>
> Note especially:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/product/ssi.mdtext
>
> Ah, and that then points back to:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/leftnav.mdtext
>
> I'd recommend poking around.  Or, if you think the look and feel of
> the "product" part of the website is good, maybe even just copy that
> and change the content of the left navigator to reflect the links that
> you want to highlight?
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
> > jan
> >
> > On 31 October 2012 19:42, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics,
> should I
> >> > change something ??
> >> >
> >>
> >> I'd like to hear what Dave thinks on this.  He set up the site-wide
> >> template originally.
> >>
> >> > I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and
> >> ooo/l10n/index.html
> >> > was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to
> be
> >> the
> >> > text that goes into the template?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Generally we check in complete HTML pages, with <html>, <head> and
> >> <body>.  The template is then applied it does its magic, which
> >> apparently merges elements in the <head>, applies navigation
> >> breadcrumbs, the constant license footer, consistent branding on the
> >> header, etc. I don't fully understand how it works, but most content
> >> authors can just ignore it.  It works that well that most can just
> >> ignore.
> >>
> >> But it looks like you want to adjust the template.  We'll see what
> >> Dave thinks on this.  Maybe we need to pipeline things so your changes
> >> are applied and then the site template is applied.  (It kind of looks
> >> like this is happening now).
> >>
> >> >  I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I
> >> used
> >> > the snip thing.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Right.  But I think what we're seeing now is a fight between the
> >> site-wide rules and the local ones.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >>
> >> > Jan.
> >> >
> >> > On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to
> >> have
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
> >> >> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
> >> >> the old directory with this one.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Rob
> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
> >> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the
> website
> >> >> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
> >> >> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the
> site-wide
> >> >> >> template.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want
> to
> >> >> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
> >> >> >> Analytics declarations.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -Rob
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Alexandro Colorado
> >> >> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> >> >> > http://es.openoffice.org
> >> >>
> >>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 4:26 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Someday I will learn how the templates work. I looked at one wiki page,
> that explained to use sort of variables, where the merged part should go.
> How a template can merge into a full html, well thats pure magic.
>
> I to not want a special top or bottom....but I do want different menus,
> since l10n has different topics. So if the template mingles with header and
> body until the menu part, and again on the bottom (apache logo etc.) I will
> be more than happy to use the template.
>

I have not looked into it, but this part of the website seems to
handle a local look and feel, along with the site-wide parts:

http://www.openoffice.org/product/index.html

Maybe reading through the way it was done here might help:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/

It looks like they did it entirely as Markdown Text.  But that is a
minor detail.

The real magic happens here, I think, where the site templates are
defined:  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/

Note especially:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/templates/product/ssi.mdtext

Ah, and that then points back to:
https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/product/leftnav.mdtext

I'd recommend poking around.  Or, if you think the look and feel of
the "product" part of the website is good, maybe even just copy that
and change the content of the left navigator to reflect the links that
you want to highlight?

-Rob




> jan
>
> On 31 October 2012 19:42, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics, should I
>> > change something ??
>> >
>>
>> I'd like to hear what Dave thinks on this.  He set up the site-wide
>> template originally.
>>
>> > I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and
>> ooo/l10n/index.html
>> > was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to be
>> the
>> > text that goes into the template?
>> >
>>
>> Generally we check in complete HTML pages, with <html>, <head> and
>> <body>.  The template is then applied it does its magic, which
>> apparently merges elements in the <head>, applies navigation
>> breadcrumbs, the constant license footer, consistent branding on the
>> header, etc. I don't fully understand how it works, but most content
>> authors can just ignore it.  It works that well that most can just
>> ignore.
>>
>> But it looks like you want to adjust the template.  We'll see what
>> Dave thinks on this.  Maybe we need to pipeline things so your changes
>> are applied and then the site template is applied.  (It kind of looks
>> like this is happening now).
>>
>> >  I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I
>> used
>> > the snip thing.
>> >
>>
>> Right.  But I think what we're seeing now is a fight between the
>> site-wide rules and the local ones.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>
>> > Jan.
>> >
>> > On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>> >> >
>> >> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to
>> have
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>> >> >
>> >> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
>> >> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
>> >> the old directory with this one.
>> >>
>> >> -Rob
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>> >> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>> >> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>> >> >> template.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>> >> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>> >> >> Analytics declarations.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Rob
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Alexandro Colorado
>> >> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> >> > http://es.openoffice.org
>> >>
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Someday I will learn how the templates work. I looked at one wiki page,
that explained to use sort of variables, where the merged part should go.
How a template can merge into a full html, well thats pure magic.

I to not want a special top or bottom....but I do want different menus,
since l10n has different topics. So if the template mingles with header and
body until the menu part, and again on the bottom (apache logo etc.) I will
be more than happy to use the template.

jan

On 31 October 2012 19:42, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics, should I
> > change something ??
> >
>
> I'd like to hear what Dave thinks on this.  He set up the site-wide
> template originally.
>
> > I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and
> ooo/l10n/index.html
> > was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to be
> the
> > text that goes into the template?
> >
>
> Generally we check in complete HTML pages, with <html>, <head> and
> <body>.  The template is then applied it does its magic, which
> apparently merges elements in the <head>, applies navigation
> breadcrumbs, the constant license footer, consistent branding on the
> header, etc. I don't fully understand how it works, but most content
> authors can just ignore it.  It works that well that most can just
> ignore.
>
> But it looks like you want to adjust the template.  We'll see what
> Dave thinks on this.  Maybe we need to pipeline things so your changes
> are applied and then the site template is applied.  (It kind of looks
> like this is happening now).
>
> >  I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I
> used
> > the snip thing.
> >
>
> Right.  But I think what we're seeing now is a fight between the
> site-wide rules and the local ones.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > Jan.
> >
> > On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>
> wrote:
> >> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >> >
> >> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to
> have
> >> >
> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
> >> >
> >> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
> >> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
> >> the old directory with this one.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
> >> >>
> >> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
> >> >>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
> >> >>
> >> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
> >> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
> >> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
> >> >> template.
> >> >>
> >> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
> >> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
> >> >> Analytics declarations.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Rob
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Alexandro Colorado
> >> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> >> > http://es.openoffice.org
> >>
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:14 PM, jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics, should I
> change something ??
>

I'd like to hear what Dave thinks on this.  He set up the site-wide
template originally.

> I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and ooo/l10n/index.html
> was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to be the
> text that goes into the template?
>

Generally we check in complete HTML pages, with <html>, <head> and
<body>.  The template is then applied it does its magic, which
apparently merges elements in the <head>, applies navigation
breadcrumbs, the constant license footer, consistent branding on the
header, etc. I don't fully understand how it works, but most content
authors can just ignore it.  It works that well that most can just
ignore.

But it looks like you want to adjust the template.  We'll see what
Dave thinks on this.  Maybe we need to pipeline things so your changes
are applied and then the site template is applied.  (It kind of looks
like this is happening now).

>  I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I used
> the snip thing.
>

Right.  But I think what we're seeing now is a fight between the
site-wide rules and the local ones.

-Rob


> Jan.
>
> On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
>> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>> >
>> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>> >
>> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>> >
>> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>> >
>>
>> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
>> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
>> the old directory with this one.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> >>
>> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>> >>
>> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>> >>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>> >>
>> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>> >> template.
>> >>
>> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>> >> Analytics declarations.
>> >>
>> >> -Rob
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alexandro Colorado
>> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
>> > http://es.openoffice.org
>>

Re: Draft L10N website

[jan iversen <ja...@gmail.com>]

Rob: I did not quite understand the part about google analytics, should I
change something ??

I checked in SVN, and saw that both ooo/index.html and ooo/l10n/index.html
was committed with the complete html, I had expected the SVN part to be the
text that goes into the template?

 I do not like to copy the top/bottom into every page, which is why I used
the snip thing.

Jan.

On 31 October 2012 19:10, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> > On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
> >
> > why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
> >
> > http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
> >
> > Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
> >
>
> Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
> debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
> the old directory with this one.
>
> -Rob
>
> >>
> >> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
> >>
> >> You can look at the source is Subversion:
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
> >>
> >> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
> >> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
> >> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
> >> template.
> >>
> >> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
> >> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
> >> Analytics declarations.
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alexandro Colorado
> > PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> > http://es.openoffice.org
>

Re: Draft L10N website

[Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>
> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>
> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.
>

Long term, it does not.  For review it is perfectly fine.  Once we've
debugged it and are agreed on the new site, then of course we replace
the old directory with this one.

-Rob

>>
>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>
>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>
>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>> template.
>>
>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>> Analytics declarations.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On 10/31/12, Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org> wrote:
> On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/
>
> why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have
>
> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html
>
> Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.

We use a version control for a reason, I think even just having the
regular l10n/index.html would be a 'better' solution.


>
>>
>> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>>
>> You can look at the source is Subversion:
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>>
>> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
>> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
>> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
>> template.
>>
>> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
>> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
>> Analytics declarations.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
>
> --
> Alexandro Colorado
> PPMC Apache OpenOffice
> http://es.openoffice.org
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: Draft L10N website

[Alexandro Colorado <jz...@oooes.org>]

On 10/31/12, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/

why do we have a different directory, wouldnt it be just better to have

http://www.openoffice.org/l10n/new.html

Doesnt make sense to have two Localization projects/folders.

>
> This is based on a contribution from Jan.
>
> You can look at the source is Subversion:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo/ooo-site/trunk/content/l10n-new/
>
> It looks like Jan is trying some clever work customizing the website
> template and server-side includes.  But it looks like it is
> conflicting with (or is being applied in duplicate to) the site-wide
> template.
>
> Dave might have some ideas here.  But in general I think we want to
> avoid having duplicate copies of site-wide items, like Google
> Analytics declarations.
>
> -Rob
>


-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org