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Posted to dev@nuttx.apache.org by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com> on 2019/12/30 21:24:35 UTC
Future Trademark Issues
I was skimming https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ and I see
several things that might have impact in the future.
First, there is the *What is the "confusing similarity" or "likelihood
of confusion" test? *Certainly the versions of NuttX destributed in the
Motorola MDK and Google Ara under the name NuttX are not the same as the
same NuttX that you would get from Apache. I think that fails the
"confusing similarity" test.
What about PX4? Doesn't PX4 carry modifications to the OS at
github.com/PX4/NuttX? If so, you will probably need to change the name
to PX4OS or something like that in the future.
There are similar issues for nuttx.org and nuttx.events under *Using
Apache Trademarks in domain names* at the same reference. There could
also be a conflict with NuttX2020 and paragraph *Using Apache Trademarks
in relation to conferences and events*
I think we don't have to be concerned about these things until we
graduate. But Apache is going to take a stronger position than I have.
My test has always been the good guy/bad guy test: If you are a "good
guy" doing "good things" then I let people do most whatever they want
with the name, short of creating their own OS fork and calling it NuttX.
Greg
Re: Future Trademark Issues
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
What the ALv2 license allows is different to what the ASF allows with trademarks. I suggest you read [1] and [2]. In particular, these are likely to apply here [3][4][5]
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
2. https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/
3 https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#guide
4. https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
5. https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/#products
RE: Future Trademark Issues
Posted by David Sidrane <Da...@nscdg.com>.
Greg & Justin,
Sorry I was running to airport and hit send too soon.
>What about PX4? Doesn't PX4 carry modifications to the OS at
>github.com/PX4/NuttX?
Nope! - PX4 is running a snapshot of pure unadulterated upstream and
between uptakes, only adds [BACKPORT] commits from contributions to
upstream that our system is dependent on.
(Yes, for now, in the absence of upstream release branches and LTS, PX4 is
doing a de-scoped version of it)
In the event that upstream is unwilling to incorporate a change, for
whatever reason. We carry that as a [REJECTED] commit.
PX4 prefers not to have to do this!
When it comes to external dependencies (PX4 has 15). PX4 wants to work
with, and leverage those communities efforts, otherwise, it does not scale.
PX4 would prefer to use upstream NuttX (or Apache Nuttx) and always have a
test branch against it always in process. By in process I mean: That it is
running on CI, and has HW testing, it is being Alpha, Beta tested and flown
by the test team.
I would not assume we know why the forks exists nor what they use:
I would suggest we ASK all the major forks (Motorola, Google, Samsung) why
they are forks.
Then take an honest inventory of the answers and do what is right for the
project and community.
> Taking a quick look at PX4 it looks like it would be an issue, however
it's
one that easily fixed in a number of ways. It's not urgent to fix now.
Do you not feel that sharing your understanding of the scope of things that
will need to change is of value?
Maybe you or legal could enlighten us all?
David
-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Mclean [mailto:justin@classsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 3:49 PM
To: dev@nuttx.apache.org
Subject: Re: Future Trademark Issues
Taking a quick look at PX4 it looks like it would be an issue, however it's
one that easily fixed in a number of ways. It's not urgent to fix now.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, 09:57 David Sidrane, <Da...@nscdg.com> wrote:
> Nope!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Nutt [mailto:spudaneco@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 1:43 PM
> To: dev@nuttx.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Future Trademark Issues
>
>
> > I was skimming https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ and I see
> > several things that might have impact in the future.
> >
> > First, there is the *What is the "confusing similarity" or "likelihood
> > of confusion" test? *Certainly the versions of NuttX destributed in
> > the Motorola MDK and Google Ara under the name NuttX are not the same
> > as the same NuttX that you would get from Apache. I think that fails
> > the "confusing similarity" test.
> >
> > What about PX4? Doesn't PX4 carry modifications to the OS at
> > github.com/PX4/NuttX? If so, you will probably need to change the
> > name to PX4OS or something like that in the future.
> >
> > There are similar issues for nuttx.org and nuttx.events under *Using
> > Apache Trademarks in domain names* at the same reference. There could
> > also be a conflict with NuttX2020 and paragraph *Using Apache
> > Trademarks in relation to conferences and events*
> >
> > I think we don't have to be concerned about these things until we
> > graduate. But Apache is going to take a stronger position than I
> > have. My test has always been the good guy/bad guy test: If you are
> > a "good guy" doing "good things" then I let people do most whatever
> > they want with the name, short of creating their own OS fork and
> > calling it NuttX.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> Project Ara is here: https://github.com/projectara/nuttx (defunct)
>
> Motoroloa MDK is here: https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityLLC/nuttx (not
> recently updated)
>
> PX4 is here: https://github.com/PX4/nuttx
>
> A few of many others: https://github.com/micro-ROS/NuttX,
> https://github.com/ros2/ros2_embedded_nuttx, https://github/NuttX, ...
> There are numerous repositories called NuttX from individuals.
>
Re: Future Trademark Issues
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Taking a quick look at PX4 it looks like it would be an issue, however it's
one that easily fixed in a number of ways. It's not urgent to fix now.
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019, 09:57 David Sidrane, <Da...@nscdg.com> wrote:
> Nope!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Nutt [mailto:spudaneco@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 1:43 PM
> To: dev@nuttx.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Future Trademark Issues
>
>
> > I was skimming https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ and I see
> > several things that might have impact in the future.
> >
> > First, there is the *What is the "confusing similarity" or "likelihood
> > of confusion" test? *Certainly the versions of NuttX destributed in
> > the Motorola MDK and Google Ara under the name NuttX are not the same
> > as the same NuttX that you would get from Apache. I think that fails
> > the "confusing similarity" test.
> >
> > What about PX4? Doesn't PX4 carry modifications to the OS at
> > github.com/PX4/NuttX? If so, you will probably need to change the
> > name to PX4OS or something like that in the future.
> >
> > There are similar issues for nuttx.org and nuttx.events under *Using
> > Apache Trademarks in domain names* at the same reference. There could
> > also be a conflict with NuttX2020 and paragraph *Using Apache
> > Trademarks in relation to conferences and events*
> >
> > I think we don't have to be concerned about these things until we
> > graduate. But Apache is going to take a stronger position than I
> > have. My test has always been the good guy/bad guy test: If you are
> > a "good guy" doing "good things" then I let people do most whatever
> > they want with the name, short of creating their own OS fork and
> > calling it NuttX.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> Project Ara is here: https://github.com/projectara/nuttx (defunct)
>
> Motoroloa MDK is here: https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityLLC/nuttx (not
> recently updated)
>
> PX4 is here: https://github.com/PX4/nuttx
>
> A few of many others: https://github.com/micro-ROS/NuttX,
> https://github.com/ros2/ros2_embedded_nuttx, https://github/NuttX, ...
> There are numerous repositories called NuttX from individuals.
>
RE: Future Trademark Issues
Posted by David Sidrane <Da...@nscdg.com>.
Nope!
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Nutt [mailto:spudaneco@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 1:43 PM
To: dev@nuttx.apache.org
Subject: Re: Future Trademark Issues
> I was skimming https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ and I see
> several things that might have impact in the future.
>
> First, there is the *What is the "confusing similarity" or "likelihood
> of confusion" test? *Certainly the versions of NuttX destributed in
> the Motorola MDK and Google Ara under the name NuttX are not the same
> as the same NuttX that you would get from Apache. I think that fails
> the "confusing similarity" test.
>
> What about PX4? Doesn't PX4 carry modifications to the OS at
> github.com/PX4/NuttX? If so, you will probably need to change the
> name to PX4OS or something like that in the future.
>
> There are similar issues for nuttx.org and nuttx.events under *Using
> Apache Trademarks in domain names* at the same reference. There could
> also be a conflict with NuttX2020 and paragraph *Using Apache
> Trademarks in relation to conferences and events*
>
> I think we don't have to be concerned about these things until we
> graduate. But Apache is going to take a stronger position than I
> have. My test has always been the good guy/bad guy test: If you are
> a "good guy" doing "good things" then I let people do most whatever
> they want with the name, short of creating their own OS fork and
> calling it NuttX.
>
> Greg
>
Project Ara is here: https://github.com/projectara/nuttx (defunct)
Motoroloa MDK is here: https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityLLC/nuttx (not
recently updated)
PX4 is here: https://github.com/PX4/nuttx
A few of many others: https://github.com/micro-ROS/NuttX,
https://github.com/ros2/ros2_embedded_nuttx, https://github/NuttX, ...
There are numerous repositories called NuttX from individuals.
Re: Future Trademark Issues
Posted by Gregory Nutt <sp...@gmail.com>.
> I was skimming https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/ and I see
> several things that might have impact in the future.
>
> First, there is the *What is the "confusing similarity" or "likelihood
> of confusion" test? *Certainly the versions of NuttX destributed in
> the Motorola MDK and Google Ara under the name NuttX are not the same
> as the same NuttX that you would get from Apache. I think that fails
> the "confusing similarity" test.
>
> What about PX4? Doesn't PX4 carry modifications to the OS at
> github.com/PX4/NuttX? If so, you will probably need to change the
> name to PX4OS or something like that in the future.
>
> There are similar issues for nuttx.org and nuttx.events under *Using
> Apache Trademarks in domain names* at the same reference. There could
> also be a conflict with NuttX2020 and paragraph *Using Apache
> Trademarks in relation to conferences and events*
>
> I think we don't have to be concerned about these things until we
> graduate. But Apache is going to take a stronger position than I
> have. My test has always been the good guy/bad guy test: If you are
> a "good guy" doing "good things" then I let people do most whatever
> they want with the name, short of creating their own OS fork and
> calling it NuttX.
>
> Greg
>
Project Ara is here: https://github.com/projectara/nuttx (defunct)
Motoroloa MDK is here: https://github.com/MotorolaMobilityLLC/nuttx (not
recently updated)
PX4 is here: https://github.com/PX4/nuttx
A few of many others: https://github.com/micro-ROS/NuttX,
https://github.com/ros2/ros2_embedded_nuttx, https://github/NuttX, ...
There are numerous repositories called NuttX from individuals.